The CLS 350 has a 3.5L V6 with 272 HP and 257 lb-ft. The CLS 500 has a 5.0L V8 with 306 HP and 337 lb-ft.
-----
Does anyone know what this is? Is it real and exactly where does it go above the E and below the S? Who is supposed to buy it?
----
MB is slowly crumbling. Thats my theory. As its "superior" image continues to fade nothing will prevent a major nosedive.
I say this partly because MB has huge quality control issues with its own manufacturing. Their execs quickly blame suppliers in arrogance, but I hear MB oversees is hardly reliable.
MB cannot rely on forced induction indefinetly. As new emmisions laws take effect it will become increasingly difficult to continue building high hp motors. Notice BMW avoids using forced induction. True it maintains a more linear power curve w/o turbo lag, and quicker throttle response times, but why bother with a technology that is likely to fail future emmissions. As California gets stricter w/ULEV status required in a few yrs how can MB survive? As long as federal courts maintain that California has the right to regulate auto emmission, MB is in trouble.
The new CLS exactly what is it another cheap attempt for attention? MB has yet to address basic quality control, or even inferior audio systems yet they are introducing useless platforms. Maybe DCX hopes it will woo some investors into a now financially troubled automanufacture.
While the US luxury segment grew for 03 (11% at Lexus thanks to the GX and redisigned RX) Benz fell 2% hardy a major dive, but it lost market share.
I definetly dont see a bright future for MB. Hopefully Im way off, Benz has so much history behind it, lack of placing high standards for R&D and manufacturing may prove problematic.
Be careful Mercedes I dont want to see you end up like VW or the now lagging H2.
Gojirra99
02-21-04, 09:46 AM
Don't care for it, 4-door coupe=oxymoron.;) Nice interior though.
Technics
02-21-04, 10:02 AM
Anybody with me on this one? Not the same but simular...............
http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/4090.jpg
http://www.autonews.com/files/2004NAIAS/lexus/images/2006GS430_11.jpg
O. L. T.
02-21-04, 10:09 AM
The dash is fugly, and the car's style reminds me of a lincon towncar with ford taurus taillights. IMO the previous years of MB have been much better in styling. actually i believe that for all manufacturers. The auto world is experiencing a trend of uglyness and it isn't getting better.
2000 to 2003 was crowning moments of auto styling... so far 2004-2005 models do not impress me and the junk that is planned for 2006, 7 and 8 is making me thing a clean low mileage used car is going to be my future.
You guys are ridicoulous :)
I think I've seen the 06 GS compared to about everything now. Stop raping the thing's styling themes.
I do see Camry tailights in the CLS though.
Technics
02-21-04, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by LexusLuver
You guys are ridicoulous :)
I think I've seen the 06 GS compared to about everything now. Stop raping the thing's styling themes.
I do see Camry tailights in the CLS though.
Raping? Just pointing out similarities, I believe the GS was released first;)
LexusLuver
02-21-04, 10:23 AM
Is it just Technics...
http://www.lexusownersclub.com/gallery/albums/album02/2006gs430_11.sized.jpg
http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/4119.jpg
...or have the tables turned?
Bigger pic
:D
Gojirra99
02-21-04, 10:28 AM
They do have a similar side profile, neither appeals to me however.
Technics
02-21-04, 10:38 AM
LexusLuver: I didn't mean to highjack your thread but we always hear how the new GS looks like "this and that". I think the new MB has some GS styling cues but not entirely.:bigok:
Back on topic: MB does make some great FI engines. If Cali does continue to put the squeeze on emissions it will be interesting to see how MB reacts. Do you think they'll cater to that market and just offer NA versions with ULE?
LexusLuver
02-21-04, 10:45 AM
:mad:
Cool man
Hmm I guess they will have to, but I would imagine the Beverly Hills types are where the majority of AMG sales are heading. Maybe they find a solution cant magazine race forever
Not to meniton only the good old 4.3L meets ULEV/LEV II while the 745i's 4.4L (finally) got LEV status
:cool:
And the LS430 was off by a mere 0.2sec to 60 in a recent C&D comparo...of course it only wore skinny allseasons next to the fat sticky rubber the 7 had.
Wasnt it smoother and quieter w/better mpg too??? :thumbup:
Front Leg Room (in)
44/41.3/41.3
Rear Leg Room
37.6/40.3/37.2
Front Headroom
38.1/37.6/39.2
Rear Headroom
37.9/38.4/38.5
Front Shoulder Room
58.3/59.2/59.3
Rear Shoulder Room
58.2/58.3/58.7
Maximum Luggage Capacity (at least its long so no bulbous rear of GS)
20.2 cu.ft./15.4 cu.ft/18 cu.ft.
Base Curb Wt (lbs)
3990/4170/4376
Gots more trunk and front volume too
:eek1:
RNM GS3
02-21-04, 10:23 PM
Not feeling this new MB at all. :thumbdn: ............Kind of looks like the current Lexus ES300 to me.
I agree that in general the new car designs from every automaker have been ugly.
DaveGS4
02-21-04, 11:44 PM
I kjnda like it, but I seems to have some of the high doorsill that have appeared on a number of Chrysler concept cars lately. I don't like the massive trunk of wood on the dash, but I love the MB gauges.
Originally posted by Technics
Anybody with me on this one? Not the same but simular...............
http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/4090.jpg
http://www.autonews.com/files/2004NAIAS/lexus/images/2006GS430_11.jpg
I am completely with you Technics. I was going to post that I thought they looked the same but I didn't want to offend any Lex folk. The design of the two cars are similiar, but the Lex looks far better. The Benz kinda reminds me of the old Caprice Classics. FUGLY.
LXOGOOD
02-22-04, 01:04 PM
Here's a better close up I took from the LA Auto Show this year...
LXOGOOD
02-22-04, 01:05 PM
another shot
doug_999
02-22-04, 01:43 PM
Yea, the GS and CLS look similar - they are both silver :)
LexusLuver - it appears that you hate Mercedes? Anyway, to counter your points,
I don't think MB has manufacturing quality control issues. I think that many of the components have QC issues, but not the manufacturing (aka, the actual building of the car). IMHO, they have started rushing technology into the car before it is ready - and you have to admit, they have been the leaders in a lot of new technology lately. The good news of course is that this has forced Lexus into the technology catchup game (i.e. the 04 LS430).
MB non-forced induction engines have very respectable hp figures - their forced induction engines have outstanding figures. I don't think however that they are relying on the forced induction for sales. I also don't think that this type of technology will cause them to fail future emissions tests.
You point out that Lexus sales increased 11% and correctly point out that the RX and GX were responsible. You did realize that Lexus car sales were down 15.3% right?
LexusLuver
02-24-04, 01:42 PM
I eagerly await the next LS and S-class. I dont really hate MB they have a colorful history. Too bad cocky execs are bringing down MB. Its easy and arrogant to point at suppliers instead of their own manufacturing problems.
LS sales actually went up at the end of 03
Toyota Announces Best Sales Year In Its 46-Year History, Breaks Sales Record For Eighth Year In A Row
January 5. 2004 - Torrance, CA - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported year-end total sales of 1,866,314 vehicles, up 6.3 percent over last year and the company's best sales performance in its 46-year history.
Camry became the best-selling car in America for the second year in a row and sixth time in the past seven years, while the Lexus Division retained its crown as the best-selling luxury brand in America for the fourth consecutive year. The 2003 year-end total also marks the 14th consecutive year that Toyota sold more than one million cars and trucks.
"2003 will go down as one of the best years ever for new car buyers," said Jim Press, TMS executive vice president and COO. "Industry sales will continue to grow in 2004 spurred by a healthy economy and steady growth in consumer confidence."
Total sales for December were a best-ever 153,417, an increase of 4.3 percent over the same period last year.
The Toyota Division recorded best-ever year-end total sales of 1,606,559 vehicles, up 5.6 percent, marking the 10th year-in-a-row the Toyota Division has topped one million units.
The Toyota Division recorded best-ever year-end passenger car sales of 869,166, an increase of 4.0 percent. The record-setting year was paced by the popular Camry, which earned its "best-selling car in America" title by posting year-end sales of 413,296. Corolla was the best-selling compact car in America with best-ever total year-end sales of 325,477, an increase of 28.0 percent.
The all-new second-generation Prius gas-electric hybrid, recently voted the "2004 North American Car of the Year," posted best-ever December sales of 4,025, an increase of 116.2 percent. Year-end Prius sales were a best-ever 24,627, up 22.4 percent over last year.
Scion, the new car marque from TMS, reported September sales of 1,285 units. Available in California over the past seven months, year-end Scion sales totaled 10,898.
The Toyota Division recorded best-ever year-end light truck sales with 737,393, an increase of 7.5 percent. Toyota Division light trucks also posted best-ever December sales of 65,767, up 14.0 percent over the same period last year. The Highlander mid-size sport utility vehicle (SUV) led the way with best-ever year-end sales of 120,174, up 6.2 percent. The 4Runner mid-size SUV posted December sales of 9,374, an increase of 25.2 percent. Year-end 4Runner sales totaled 109,308, up 41.9 percent over last year. The Sienna van recorded its best-ever selling month with 13,849 units sold, up 96.4 percent. Year-end Sienna sales were a best-ever 105,499, up 30.4 percent over last year. The Sequoia full-size SUV posted best-ever December sales of 7,206, an increase of 8.8 percent over the same period last year.
Contributing to the light truck sales record was the Tacoma compact pickup truck with December sales of 11,658, up 1.8 percent. Year-end Tacoma sales totaled 154,154, an increase of 1.4 percent. The Tundra full-size pickup truck recorded best-ever December sales with 9,204 units sold. Year-end Tundra sales were 101,316, an increase of 2.0 percent over last year.
The Lexus Division enjoyed its best-ever sales year with 259,755 units sold, an increase of 11.0 percent. The Lexus Division also enjoyed its best-ever selling month with 28,176 units sold, up 9.0 percent.
Lexus light trucks posted best-ever year-end sales of 132,935, up 57.5 percent over last year. Lexus also recorded its best-ever selling month for light trucks with sales of 15,538, an increase of 30.6 percent over the same period last year. The RX 330 luxury SUV led the December sales charge with 10,594 units sold, up 23.0 percent. Year-end RX 330 sales were a best-ever 92,366, an increase of 26.6 percent over last year. The GX 470 luxury mid-size SUV posted its best-ever sales month with 3,781 units sold, up 66.0 percent over last year. In its first full selling year GX 470 sales totaled 31,376. The LX 470 full-size luxury SUV posted strong December sales of 1,163, an increase of 15.8 percent.
The Lexus LS 430 luxury sedan recorded 3,087 sales for the month, an increase of 36.7 percent.
Total TMS sales of North American-built vehicles totaled 1,119,609, representing 60.0 percent of total vehicles sold in 2003. There were 307 selling days in 2003, which equals the number in 2002.
EDIT
In Aug 02 both the GTR34 and Supra ended production w/new Japanese emmission laws. It's challenging to meet Cali LEV/ULEV emmsions w/ a high hp NA motor. Forced induction will have a hard time getting through. MB motors arent all that strong compare them to Acura motors or even the 3.5L Nissan VQ. Regular Lexus products have been quicker. The GS400 was as fast as a 540i 6spd. And the LS430 is quicker than a S430 or S500.
I honestly think that MB uses forced induction strictly to build an image. They are found in every mainstream auto magazine every month. Even the SLR uses forced induction while Porsche familiar w/it and Ferrari chose NA for their supercars. Saleen also is experienced w/them in Stangs but developed his own NA motor for the S7.
southernsc
02-24-04, 02:22 PM
http://www.fordvehicles.com/images/2003/EN/photo/trucks/rgr_pgextpop14.jpg http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/4089.jpg http://x.wieck.com/pv/WKA/2003/12/31/WKA2003123143290_pv.jpg
they all look the same
Overclocker
02-24-04, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by doug_999
LexusLuver - it appears that you hate Mercedes?
I don't think he hates Mercedes, he's just voicing his opinion on them much like you have about Lexus on this site.
Originally posted by doug_999
I don't think MB has manufacturing quality control issues. I think that many of the components have QC issues, but not the manufacturing (aka, the actual building of the car).
As for the build quality, have you seen MB panel gaps? My 10+ year old SC has smaller gaps then a brand new S class. :egads:
Originally posted by doug_999
You point out that Lexus sales increased 11% and correctly point out that the RX and GX were responsible. You did realize that Lexus car sales were down 15.3% right?
How can sales be down 15.3% when just a sentence ago they were up 11%?
doug_999
02-24-04, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Overclocker
As for the build quality, have you seen MB panel gaps? My 10+ year old SC has smaller gaps then a brand new S class. :
How can sales be down 15.3% when just a sentence ago they were up 11%?
Actually I have seen the S class and I'm not sure what gaps you are talking about.
CAR sales were down 15.3%, Overall sales which include their trucks, and yes Lexus classifies the RX as a truck, were way up. You do realize that Lexus sells more trucks than cars right? I should also point out that while BMW car sales were down in Jan, for the 03 model year, they were over 70,000 more than Lexus. Once again, CAR sales.
Gojirra99
02-24-04, 07:11 PM
Cars, trucks, crossovers, whatever, who cares? They ALL count. :rolleyes: