The Daily Auto Insider
Tuesday, May 25, 2004
May 2004


General Motors vehicles led in 11 of 19 segments (five ties) on Strategic Vision's 2004 Total Quality Index, the San Diego-based research firm said in a press release.

The TQI measures new vehicle owner satisfaction, and assesses new buyers' responses to the complete ownership experience, including buying, owning and driving their new vehicles. The calculations also include the emotional response to that experience, Strategic Visions said.

Among GM brands, Chevrolet led with four wins (1 a tie), followed by Cadillac (3 wins; 1 a tie), Saturn (tied in 2 segments) and Buick (tied in 1 segment).

"GM has been saying for some time that it's improving its products," says Strategic Vision vice president Daniel Gorrell, "so they should be proud that many of their buyers agree. The challenge will be to continue this momentum and regain the trust, and then the hearts and minds, of the U.S. car and truck buyer."

In addition to the Santa Fe's repeat win in the small SUV segment, Hyundai's Elantra and Sonata were co-leaders in their segments. Nissan Motors also had three wins (2 were ties), two for Infiniti and one for Nissan. The other domestic manufacturers each had two wins, as did Honda (with one for each a tie). The Lexus LS430 was Toyota's only top scorer.

Infiniti and Mercedes-Benz were the highest scoring brands, while Cadillac continued in second place, tying with Jaguar and Lexus. Mitsubishi and Dodge were the most improved brands. "The real challenge for GM and other brands who are turning their products around," says Gorrell, "is to convince potential buyers, particularly entrenched Toyota and Honda owners, to take a look."

The highest scoring model was the Cadillac XLR. Buyers loved its power, style, craftsmanship and handling, and found it well above the segment in innovation and quietness. It delivered a strong sense of esteem in being fun to drive, exciting and making its owners proud. The convertible made owners feel a sense of individuality and refinement in a finished, sophisticated vehicle.

Korean manufacturer Hyundai gained ten points for the brand. Even in segments it didn't win, it scored in the top five. "Hyundai's ascent," says Gorrell, "is nothing short of amazing. We measure their products against the best in the business, and they score well. People are no longer buying their vehicles just for price or warranty."


Korean manufacturer Hyundai gained ten points for the brand. Even in segments it didn't win, it scored in the top five. "Hyundai's ascent," says Gorrell, "is nothing short of amazing. We measure their products against the best in the business, and they score well. People are no longer buying their vehicles just for price or warranty."
products around," says Gorrell, "is to convince potential buyers, particularly entrenched Toyota and Honda owners, to take a look."

The highest scoring model was the Cadillac XLR. Buyers loved its power, style, craftsmanship and handling, and found it well above the segment in innovation and quietness. It delivered a strong sense of esteem in being fun to drive, exciting and making its owners proud. The convertible made owners feel a sense of individuality and refinement in a finished, sophisticated vehicle.

Korean manufacturer Hyundai gained ten points for the brand. Even in segments it didn't win, it scored in the top five. "Hyundai's ascent," says Gorrell, "is nothing short of amazing. We measure their products against the best in the business, and they score well. People are no longer buying their vehicles just for price or warranty."

Volkswagen kept its place as the top-scoring full-line corporation, followed by Nissan, Honda and General Motors, which ranked above Toyota. "General Motors is the really big story for 2004," continues Gorrell. "Just to turn, let alone turn around, such a giant is a major victory."

Data came from more than 39,290 buyers who bought 2004 models in October and November of 2003. "Their responses go into complex calculations that mirror the way people really respond to the vehicle ownership experience," says Dr. Darrel Edwards, Strategic Vision president and founder. "Accurate measures of customers' reactions have to include the emotions generated by the experience."

Buyers rated the following vehicles tops in their segments: (closely ranked scores, if the differences are not statistically significant, are considered ties)

Small Car — Hyundai Elantra/Saturn Ion(a) (tie) — 867/867
Compact Car — Chevrolet Malibu/Hyundai Sonata (tie) — 883/882
Mid-Size Car — Acura TSX — 888
Larger Car — Buick LeSabre/Chrysler Concorde (tie) — 851/851
Small Coupe less than $25,000 — Mini Cooper(a) — 903
Small Coupe greater than $25,000 — Chevrolet Corvette — 905
Mid-Size Coupe — Chevrolet Monte Carlo — 885
Near-Luxury Car —Infiniti G35(a)/Cadillac De Ville (tie) — 900/899
Luxury Car — Lexus LS430 — 922
Convertible (greater than $30,000) — Cadillac XLR — 928
Minivan — Mercury Monterey/Honda Odyssey(a) (tie) 863/861
Small SUV — Hyundai Santa Fe(a) — 868
Mid-Size SUV — Nissan Murano/Saturn Vue (tie) — 876/876
Large SUV — Ford Excursion(a) — 885
Near-Luxury SUV — Infiniti FX — 912
Luxury SUV — Cadillac Escalade — 899
Compact Pickup — Dodge Dakota — 834

Large Pickup — Chevrolet Avalanche 1500(a) — 888 Heavy Duty Pickup Chevrolet Silverado
Volkswagen kept its place as the top-scoring full-line corporation, followed by Nissan, Honda and General Motors, which ranked above Toyota. "General Motors is the really big story for 2004," continues Gorrell. "Just t

Data came from more than 39,290 buyers who bought 2004 models in October and November of 2003. "Their responses go into complex calculations that mirror the way people really respond to the vehicle ownership experience," says Dr. Darrel Edwards, Strategic Vision president and founder. "Accurate measures of customers' reactions have to include the emotions generated by the experience."

Buyers rated the following vehicles tops in their segments: (closely ranked scores, if the differences are not statistically significant, are considered ties)

Small Car — Hyundai Elantra/Saturn Ion(a) (tie) — 867/867
Compact Car — Chevrolet Malibu/Hyundai Sonata (tie) — 883/882
Mid-Size Car — Acura TSX — 888
Larger Car — Buick LeSabre/Chrysler Concorde (tie) — 851/851
Small Coupe less than $25,000 — Mini Cooper(a) — 903
Small Coupe greater than $25,000 — Chevrolet Corvette — 905
Mid-Size Coupe — Chevrolet Monte Carlo — 885
Near-Luxury Car —Infiniti G35(a)/Cadillac De Ville (tie) — 900/899
Luxury Car — Lexus LS430 — 922
Convertible (greater than $30,000) — Cadillac XLR — 928
Minivan — Mercury Monterey/Honda Odyssey(a) (tie) 863/861
Small SUV — Hyundai Santa Fe(a) — 868
Mid-Size SUV — Nissan Murano/Saturn Vue (tie) — 876/876
Large SUV — Ford Excursion(a) — 885
Near-Luxury SUV — Infiniti FX — 912
Luxury SUV — Cadillac Escalade — 899
Compact Pickup — Dodge Dakota — 834

Large Pickup — Chevrolet Avalanche 1500(a) — 888 Heavy Duty Pickup Chevrolet Silverado

I think you're missing the first sentence of the article :) :p

Welcome to ClubLexus too!! :thumbup: :cool:

Almost nothing in this article seems accurate.
I think Stategic Visions testing strategies may be flawed
since it totally conflicts against Consumer Reports
, JD Power & Associates, as well as others.

Volkswagon is the top scoring full line corp., again?! Hello?
I hear nothing but bad things about Volkswagan these days.
VW's are among the most trouble filled cars.

GM and VW ranked above Toyota? Just check any other publication
to find out the truth.

LS430 is Toyota's ONLY top scorer? JD just ranked the SC430
as it's best quality performer in it's history. Never mind other Lexus
models.

They also thinks there's a car called the Hyundai "Ascent". Try Accent.
Ya, they really know their cars.:rolleyes:

I think lesser cars may score high because people don't expect much of them,
and therefore submit a positive report. When someone buys a Lexus, for example,
they expect a perfect car, so if there's a slight imperfection, they complain about that
one little thing.

Although there is some accuracy, I wouldn't take these ranking very seriously.

Originally posted by JLSC4
Almost nothing in this article seems accurate.
I think Stategic Visions testing strategies may be flawed
since it totally conflicts against Consumer Reports
, JD Power & Associates, as well as others.

Volkswagon is the top scoring full line corp., again?! Hello?
I hear nothing but bad things about Volkswagan these days.
VW's are among the most trouble filled cars.

GM and VW ranked above Toyota? Just check any other publication
to find out the truth.

LS430 is Toyota's ONLY top scorer? JD just ranked the SC430
as it's best quality performer in it's history. Never mind other Lexus
models.

They also thinks there's a car called the Hyundai "Ascent". Try Accent.
Ya, they really know their cars.:rolleyes:

I think lesser cars may score high because people don't expect much of them,
and therefore submit a positive report. When someone buys a Lexus, for example,
they expect a perfect car, so if there's a slight imperfection, they complain about that
one little thing.

Although there is some accuracy, I wouldn't take these ranking very seriously.

well said ...http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/worshippy.gif i totally agree

Looks like you cut and pasted the link wrong chief! there appears to be two copies in there, and the bottom copy is cut off severly. I have included the link here for you.

Not very accurate. IMO.

The grammatical mistakes and spelling are horrible, even the car model names are misspelled. Would you trust someone who couldn't spell "accent" ?

By the way, if you want another Mercedes, i have one in the general classifieds with a blown transmission. :thumbdn:

:)

By the way here is the LINK:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?article_id=1192&section_id=14&page_number=1

You should look at CR's quality study.

I guess the Daily Auto Insider needs to get "out" more!

Originally posted by WhiteTiger
I guess the Daily Auto Insider needs to get "out" more!

Kinda makes you wonder... who pulled these names at random out of a hat? Since when do the words "Hyundai" and "class-leader" ever cross paths in the same sentence? Hasn't the Santa Fe already been recalled at least once to have the entire engine replaced? And what's with VW being the best overall brand? My stepdad owns a 2001 VW and I've already lost count on the number of times it's been recalled? I think even my dog could've come up with a more accurate review.

The title of this thread can= flames. And bub, we do not bash mercedes quality. Benz owners bash Benz quality. It is a well known fact now, the quality is missing. We may repeat that statement but not bash it. I want an AMG someday in my life.:)

It is recognized, Toyota makes the best quality cars and Lexus extends this by having the best built cars on Earth. Period. Lexus=Quality, it is a main selling point for us.

Nice first post!:egads: i disagree with this... what ever it is..

i went over that post twice and i still dont get the point of him posting that here. i am slow:egads:

The part about Hyundai (and to a slightly lesser extent Kia), Chevy Monte Carlo, and a few Buicks is pretty accurate. Though the GM cars still have cheap fit-and-finish, these cars have dramatically increased their quality in the last several years....especially Hyundai. Other sources, such as Consumer Reports, back this up. Quality-wise, if it were my money, I would buy a Hyundai today over anything else in the industry except for a Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Infiniti, Mazda, or Subaru product...these are the only brands that still beat Hyundai.
And to address the thread topic about "bashing" Mercedes quality,..........who actually NEEDS to bash the record of recent M-B products? Their awful record speaks for ITSELF, dude.....it doesn't need ANY help from US.:eek2:

trolls shall be burned!!! hahahaha
btw why wouldn't a 85k vert get the buyers excited..lol..you better be excited you just dropped that change on the caddy

Originally posted by Leets
Kinda makes you wonder... who pulled these names at random out of a hat? Since when do the words "Hyundai" and "class-leader" ever cross paths in the same sentence? Hasn't the Santa Fe already been recalled at least once to have the entire engine replaced? And what's with VW being the best overall brand? My stepdad owns a 2001 VW and I've already lost count on the number of times it's been recalled? I think even my dog could've come up with a more accurate review.

You're livin' in the past, dude. J.D. Power's 2004 ratings have Hyundai #3 in the industry in vehicle quality...trailing only Toyota / Lexus, and TIED with Honda. ( yes, hell has frozen over ). Consumer Reports also has every Hyundai product for which it has a database now average or above in reliability.
So the Santa Fe has been recalled...so what? :egads: EVERY manufacturer...including Toyota / Lexus...has recalls. My IS300 has had a recall for an underbody shelf and a TSB for transmission programming.
Now VW...that's a different matter...they have been well below average in reliability for some years now, and have not improved much.

DETROIT:

Emotions can trump problems when consumers size up their new cars, a survey out Monday shows. Volkswagen beat all multi-brand automakers for satisfying customers in the first three months of ownership, according to the annual survey by Strategic Vision, an automotive research firm in San Diego. Mercedes-Benz and Infiniti scored at the top for all brands.

The survey, called Total Quality Index, asked 40,000 owners how much they like their vehicle overall; how many glitches they found; how much quality they perceive in the packaging and performance; how emotionally attached they are; and whether they would buy the car again if they had the chance.

Both Volkswagen and Mercedes have scored poorly on rival J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study (IQS), which surveys consumers only on things gone wrong in the first 90 days.
"Often the things right with a vehicleó plus brand image in the case of Volkswagen and Mercedes ó can overwhelm the things gone wrong," says Strategic Vision's Dan Gorrell. "And this points to the importance of building in emotion and desirability to new products, not just reliability."

VW has topped all automakers the last three years in the Strategic Vision survey,:rolleyes: even though sales in the USA are down 50,000 the last two years and its score in the Power IQS was down 15% last year.

Mercedes, which tied with Infiniti for first among brands in the Strategic Vision survey, improved from sixth last year. But it ranked 13th among brands in the IQS.

"We made progress in Power's survey, but we aren't in the top 10, which is where we have to be," says Mercedes spokeswoman Donna Boland. But Strategic Vision's Total Quality Index "shows we are on the right track."

South Korean automaker Hyundai, which vaulted ahead of the Toyota brand in this year's IQS, beat both Toyota and Honda in the Total Quality Index.

Toyota, which ranked 20th among all brands, "suffers from blandness and ubiquity, especially with high-volume cars like Camry and Corolla," Gorrell says.

But he credits Toyota with working on the problem by expanding its design resources in North America to cater more to American tastes.

Other key findings in the Strategic Vision survey:

* General Motors topped 11 of 19 product categories. Saturn Ion, Chevrolet Malibu and Corvette and Cadillac XLR were among the top ranked. "GM does very well with people who buy (its brands), but it has a long way to go to win over people who end up buying an import after considering imports against GMs," Gorrell says.

* Saturn and Hyundai ranked higher than Honda for vehicles priced below $23,000.

* VW, Nissan and Chevrolet were the only brands to beat the industry average for vehicles priced $23,000 to $30,000, the heart of the industry.

* Fewer than one in three buyers reported any problem in the first 90 days. Chrysler scored worst, with 5% reporting serious problems. Just 2% of Honda and Toyota owners reported serious problems.

here we go again. another benz owner that has been rubbed the wrong way somehow wanting to start a flame war. :egads:

Many of VW's problems can be traced to two significant things.....first, poor service departments, and second, problems with the ignition coils and igniters on the 1.8L Turbo and VR6 engines.
VW's best feature is that they are the only company currently selling cars in the U.S. that offers a small diesel, which will give you about the same mileage as the gas-electric hybrids but without the mechanical complexity. One of my co-workers just got a Jetta diesel and gets 600-plus miles per tankful.

Originally posted by amy011079
here we go again. another benz owner that has been rubbed the wrong way somehow wanting to start a flame war. :egads:


Well, Amy, at least quality-wise, the Mercedes crowd may have the artillery :chicken: but the Lexus crowd has the nukes :rockon:

Originally posted by thegoldcup


"Hyundai's ascent," says Gorrell, "is nothing short of amazing. We measure their products against the best in the business, and they score well. People are no longer buying their vehicles just for price or warranty."

This is not a typo. It's Hyundai's ASCENT, as in their rise in quality -- which is very true. They aren't talking about the Accent, but the company's improvement. Reread the sentence.

In spite of that, yes, the article is full of it. :)

Originally posted by mmarshall
Many of VW's problems can be traced to two significant things.....first, poor service departments, and second, problems with the ignition coils and igniters on the 1.8L Turbo and VR6 engines.
VW's best feature is that they are the only company currently selling cars in the U.S. that offers a small diesel, which will give you about the same mileage as the gas-electric hybrids but without the mechanical complexity. One of my co-workers just got a Jetta diesel and gets 600-plus miles per tankful.

Plus the fact that diesel is cheaper (by a considerable amount) than 87 octane (at least around here) which is just icing on the cake considering the gas prices lately.

if mercedes is worse than vw, please keep me from it, i would never buy a vw...just seeing my ladies jetta. such a pos:egads:

Originally posted by fireballs gs400
if mercedes is worse than vw, please keep me from it, i would never buy a vw...just seeing my ladies jetta. such a pos:egads:

Well, good and bad are relative things. A Mercedes, like a Volvo, is the ultimate safety machine. Their frames and body structures are like tanks. They have just about every electronic feature known to the auto industry to keep you out of an accident. What they used to have, though, and no longer have, is reliability. The newer electromechanical brake-by-wire systems and the interior hardware are pure J-U-N-K.
In short, the company has spent so much time and money on new electronic gadgets and on ridiculous power ratings for the AMG cars that they have SERIOUSLY neglected quality control and long-term testing of these features. :egads:

http://www.cars.com/news/stories/051104_storyb_ap.jhtml?page=newsstory&aff=national

http://www.cars.com/news/stories/052504_storyb_ap.jhtml?page=newsstory&aff=national

:o

I tell ya, this could continue, but i think the point has been made, then taken, then beaten over the fence.

So....... before any more surprises show up......

:close: