Acura Tl [Archive] - Club Lexus Forums

ST430

07-12-04, 03:03 PM

Having ridden (aggressively) both powerful FWD (97' 14 sec ET Nissan Maxima SE 5-speed) as well as "slightly" more powerful RWD car (93' Supra TT 600hp 12 sec ET 6-speed), I can assure you that only the most experienced and skillful of people can take full advantage of the RWD characteristics. Although it is funner and makes for better weight distribution, lauch characteristics, and handling prowness, the disadvantages od oversteering to novices or even intermediates is worse than for understeering, torque laden FWD platforms like the TL.

I can assure you that in my test drive this past weekend at the Lexus Tase of Lucury of event in Oakland, the TL i drove had far better manners and was easier and safer to drive than 90% of the vehicle on the course. Mind you, I'm no GT pro, but have done my fair share of AutoX and Track events. Only the nimblest of cars like the 330 and IS i drove there were funner....It surprised me how much technological advancement Honduh has made to the FWD platform, but as evident by the torque steer (which is easily handled), it is at its envelope now where they have to go to AWD (SH-AWD)...

98Nav400

07-12-04, 05:10 PM

Lex; I have to love your dedication, even if I disagree with you slightly.

My father recently purchased a new TL w/Nav. He paid ~$33k out the door. It is packed with tech. features. The interior is nice and the Nav. Screen is huge but sits much higher in the dash than mine does in the GS. The interior is excellent but definitely tuned to sport whereas my GS is tuned toward luxury more.

I have put some miles on his car. The front drive is noticeable, but something that I adjusted to pretty quickly. Obviously, turning a corner and romping on the gas does provide some torque steer that you should be ready for but the flip side of that is doing same in my car either the computers stop all progress, or if turned off big brother I end up being a one wheel wonder---smoking one tire to shreds while going nowhere fast. The suspension feels pretty good stock again sportier, while mine is tuned towards luxury.

Dependability; obviously Lexus is at the top. That being said, I am not too concerned about the Acura, excluding the tranny problems they have had--thankfully they have a good warranty. Its not like we are talking about a Land Rover, or Jag. All things considered they build a good product that should have a long life.

Again, we are talking stock versus stock here. It’s not fair to start talking about a modded GS versus a stock TL. With about $3,000 (Ltuned susp/Torque Converter/LSD) the GS is much more sporty that stock, but then you have to allow the TL to be modded as well...

MSRP for the TL loaded ~$35k
MSRP for the GS loaded~ $55k

Would I trade my GS400 for his TL--probably not. Do I think his car is pretty nice and a GREAT value--absolutely. If I had to buy new, I would probably go with the TL over the GS since the $20k price difference is a lot of money in my world..

agreziv

07-12-04, 06:28 PM

the TL is a great choice.. but it surprises me that the new models have the same tranny problem... I've owned hondas/acuras all my life, and it surprises me because hondas/acuras are reliable... then I ask myself whats going on? I mean compared to all other car companies there still considered one of the most reliable car companies out there.

1SICKLEX

07-12-04, 07:48 PM

1 tranny re-call thread for the new 04 TL (1 of many)

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86227

1 of many lemon law threads on the 04 TL

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86336
If you got tons of time on your hands here is their problems STICKEY!. Take a couple days of work, its 17 pages long
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73969

Known issues / fix / dealer or factory solution:

*Creaking headliner near dash / fix with foam under headliner / replace broken mounting clips

*Wrinkling leather in DS seat, leather looses its shape (butt prints) / unknown / unknown

*SES light on with seeming misfire / unknown / replace crank sensor OR install updated software. [url]http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...&threadid=65829

*Vibration at 55+mph / unknown / Two independent issues here: (i)suggested cold flatspotting of stock tires; (ii) auto transmission programming or TCC solenoid.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...light=vibration (discusses both)
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...light=vibration
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...light=vibration
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...?threadid=67438 (on tires)

*Jumps out of 1st gear in early VIN MT cars / small teeth on 1st gear out of allowed tolerances / replace gear
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...30&pagenumber=4

*Seat memory resets unpredictably / unknown / unknown
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...30&pagenumber=4
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...?threadid=67251
FIX available:http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=71922&pagenumber=1

* Another summary of the small fit and finish items can be found at:
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...30&pagenumber=7

I am not making this up. I am posting links. I will state up front, the TL has "percieved" value and a great amount of features. CLEARLY it comes at a cost with quality.
On top of that, the dealer service is a a little better than Hondas.

I ask this. If a Lexus or an Infiniti had these SAME issues would I consider. Hell no. No way in hell I am spending 35k on a car this poorly built. I'll take my chance with an Chrysler or BMW or so.

And Acura just scored a 117 on JD Power where the industry average is 119. The older Acuras are just better built.

agreziv

07-13-04, 01:40 AM

doug_999

07-13-04, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by agreziv
I'm assuming that its because most of the crap thats happening, is these are american built acuras.. I mean look at the RL, and the TSX those are built like a rock... us americans are lazy asses... my 93 acura legend was great to me... japan quality

When the Accord started being produced here, Honda did a tear down of a car built in Japan and one built here. The one built here in the US was superior.

I believe these issues are because the TL is a first year car with far more technology than most cars. As we move into more and more gizmos, we will see more of this.

....and don't think Toyota is immune to it either. Last I checked, the Buick Century was the highest ranked midsize car for initial quality. Not too much technology in that baby.

98Nav400

07-13-04, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
1 tranny re-call thread for the new 04 TL (1 of many)

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86227

1 of many lemon law threads on the 04 TL

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86336
If you got tons of time on your hands here is their problems STICKEY!. Take a couple days of work, its 17 pages long
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73969

Known issues / fix / dealer or factory solution:

*Creaking headliner near dash / fix with foam under headliner / replace broken mounting clips

*Wrinkling leather in DS seat, leather looses its shape (butt prints) / unknown / unknown

*SES light on with seeming misfire / unknown / replace crank sensor OR install updated software. [url]http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...&threadid=65829

*Vibration at 55+mph / unknown / Two independent issues here: (i)suggested cold flatspotting of stock tires; (ii) auto transmission programming or TCC solenoid.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...light=vibration (discusses both)
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...light=vibration
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...light=vibration
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...?threadid=67438 (on tires)

*Jumps out of 1st gear in early VIN MT cars / small teeth on 1st gear out of allowed tolerances / replace gear
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...30&pagenumber=4

*Seat memory resets unpredictably / unknown / unknown
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...30&pagenumber=4
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...?threadid=67251
FIX available:http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=71922&pagenumber=1

* Another summary of the small fit and finish items can be found at:
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...30&pagenumber=7

I am not making this up. I am posting links. I will state up front, the TL has "percieved" value and a great amount of features. CLEARLY it comes at a cost with quality.
On top of that, the dealer service is a a little better than Hondas.

I ask this. If a Lexus or an Infiniti had these SAME issues would I consider. Hell no. No way in hell I am spending 35k on a car this poorly built. I'll take my chance with an Chrysler or BMW or so.

And Acura just scored a 117 on JD Power where the industry average is 119. The older Acuras are just better built.

I consider the tranny issue to be a big problem. I am amazed that they didn't figure it out from the 2nd generation problems.

The rest of the things mentioned I would put in the: "Gold ***** Theory"---which basically says what I have is Gold and what you have is *****.

My car has all of the "standard" GS problems:
* Rattling Sunroof Cover
* Condensation in one HID Headlight
* Tires that need to be balance 2 times a year or I get a vibration as well

I think the biggest problem is with Acura is their Service Department. I can tell you from experience they are no where near the quality of Lexus. There unwillingness to fix simple problems correctly the first time is the reason that board gets bogged down with build quality problems. I have seen similar thread on this board, though not as consistent, but the the problems get dealt with quickly and correctly the first time. That quality is not free as we know; get out of warranty and that Lexus service gets really expensive. On a recent trip I had a taillight bulb burn out; I saw a dealership and got it replaced---$49 but I did get two free chocolates...

I am a huge Lexus fan, and think that the quality and dependability of their cars is unbelievable. I hope to never leave. I think the new TL is not perfect, but I do not beleive its near as bad as you are inferring. My fathers car has 11k on it with 0 problems so far; hopefully it stays that way.

rogers2

07-13-04, 10:41 AM

VSsc400

07-13-04, 11:01 AM

my sister has an 03 and my other friend has the 04.
the 04 need a new tranny. My sister has not had any problems yet.
i think they look good IMO

rominl

07-13-04, 11:54 AM

Gojirra99

07-13-04, 12:01 PM

The RL is made in Japan, & while the TSX has the body style of the Euro Accord, those we get here are made in Japan.

rominl

07-13-04, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by SexySC
The RL is made in Japan, & while the TSX has the body style of the Euro Accord, those we get here are made in Japan.

oh, very intereting, i stand corrected :)

Xenthar

07-14-04, 01:29 AM

The TL is a great car..beautiful inside and out. The problems happening are problems that come with a first year production car. Acura has addressed the problems and thats all that matters.

Xenthar

07-14-04, 01:30 AM

1SICKLEX

07-14-04, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Xenthar
you must have alot of time on yours hands....:uh:

Anyone with an I.Q of a doormat can take 2 mintues at TL .com and see every 3 threads, there is a:
rattle
falling headliner
tranny issue
paint peeling or cheap
leather cracking
rattle
etc etc etc. Compared to the IS and G35, it's pathetic.

AdrianXT

07-14-04, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Anyone with an I.Q of a doormat can take 2 mintues at TL .com and see every 3 threads, there is a:
rattle
falling headliner
tranny issue
paint peeling or cheap
leather cracking
rattle
etc etc etc. Compared to the IS and G35, it's pathetic.

I think I just peed my pants. :D

Originally posted by Xenthar
The TL is a great car..beautiful inside and out. The problems happening are problems that come with a first year production car. Acura has addressed the problems and thats all that matters.

Are you some sort of Acura troll? Or do you just live in denial? The TL is a piece of junk. Period. Acura has not addressed the problems. And it doesn't look like they will. Problems like these are the result of poor engineering, and poor engineering can't usually be fixed at the Acura dealership. The only things that Acura claims it has had going for itself are A.) "Luxury and Value" and B.) Quality. The former is non-existant, and the latter has been fading fast.

Open your eyes.

Doc C

07-14-04, 07:29 AM

wantAnewLex,

Your arguments are always so compelling. "Acuras are crap!!!" Or, in another thread, you simply say, "Yes they do!!" or "No they don't!!!" I thought this was a forum to talk about all cars objectively. Xenthar and Sick at least use rational explanations for their opinions. Someone saying they think an Acura or Infiniti is a better car I thought was okay in the Car Chat forum. I thought that was its purpose. Someone earlier mentioned the Gold S*** situation in this forum. That's what Club Lexus forums have become.
I've emailed Dave GS4 (never get a response) about this very thing. Club Lexus has turned into nothing but an area to verbally assault anyone who has a different opinion than "Lexus is best". I have owned several great Lexus vehicles and they were fantastic, but there are other cars that are as good or better depending on the needs of the person buying it.

Acura is a great car company. The new RL WILL get the attention of Lexus buyers. It is going to be fantastic. Acura was the first luxury Japanese marque. The Legend was "legendary" the way it showed Europeans that the Japanese could build a luxury performance sedan. Acura went head to head with Ferrari with the NSX and won. By the way, if an ES or LS cost $90k new, it would still be only worth about 5-10% of that in 13 years compared to the NSX at 50% of new purchase price. Sorry to burst your bubble there. It has nothing to do with initial price, it has everything to do with the fact that they hold their value. Lexus has yet to build a premier sports car of that caliber. Lexus has had many notable moments as well. I just don't think because you own either car, you suddenly can call everything else crap with no foundation or credible data. No one's flamed the Subaru Forrester yet, so why don't you try being more objective and less of a PIA!!! Go ahead with your reply. It will be something like, "You suck!!!!"

rogers2

07-14-04, 08:02 AM

Dam, that's a pretty bold statement for a person that's not drive a luxury vehicle.
All and all I think the TL is a great buy. I recently had a chance to test drive a TL for a week while my CL was in the shop and I must say the car is miles ahead of my wife’s 2001 gs300 technology/performance wise.
I know the first year is going to have minor problems.
I respect Sick for his views and I must say he does rep the Lexus forum very well. Despite his links Imo basically there is no car in the Acura TL class that can touch its bargain and features.
But recently every time someone mention the word Acura around here people go crazy.
I didn't know Lexus owners hate Acura cars so much. I guess on every forum I must defend Acura and Lexus cars because I own both.:D

mmarshall

07-14-04, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by doug_999

[ Last I checked, the Buick Century was the highest ranked midsize car for initial quality. Not too much technology in that baby. [/B]

Not too much technology DRIVING them, either.

mmarshall

07-14-04, 08:16 AM

Doc C, if you look at my long record of posts, you'll see that I'm not part of the "only Lexus" crowd. I've repeatedly praised many Subaru products as having the best inexpensive AWD system on the market, and Hyundai for its astounding improvement in quality and warranty protection in the last 5 years, and Kia for more or less the same reasons. The only cars I have really panned are the Chris Bangle BMW's for their unnecessarily quirky designs and the poor quality of many M-B products, because they are ripping off the consumer. When you got your NSX I was very careful to list both the plusses and minusses of that car as I saw it.
By the way, how is the NSX doing?....you are one of the few people in the forum outside of Dave GS4's girl friens who has one.

Xenthar

07-14-04, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by wantAnewLex
I think I just peed my pants. :D

Are you some sort of Acura troll? Or do you just live in denial? The TL is a piece of junk. Period. Acura has not addressed the problems. And it doesn't look like they will. Problems like these are the result of poor engineering, and poor engineering can't usually be fixed at the Acura dealership. The only things that Acura claims it has had going for itself are A.) "Luxury and Value" and B.) Quality. The former is non-existant, and the latter has been fading fast.

Open your eyes.

No im not a troll. My parents have an ls430 so i would think that since it is a lex...then i can come on here. I have a G35...not an acura. I used to have an acura. Its people like you that make me annoyed because your remarks are so ignorant. Acura is a good company, and i dont see why there is so much negativity on here when it gets mentioned. I like all cars...i dont have this full set hatred for a brand that i would try my best to always trash it.

AdrianXT

07-14-04, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Doc C
wantAnewLex,

Your arguments are always so compelling. "Acuras are crap!!!" Or, in another thread, you simply say, "Yes they do!!" or "No they don't!!!" I thought this was a forum to talk about all cars objectively. Xenthar and Sick at least use rational explanations for their opinions. Someone saying they think an Acura or Infiniti is a better car I thought was okay in the Car Chat forum. I thought that was its purpose. Someone earlier mentioned the Gold S*** situation in this forum. That's what Club Lexus forums have become.
I've emailed Dave GS4 (never get a response) about this very thing. Club Lexus has turned into nothing but an area to verbally assault anyone who has a different opinion than "Lexus is best". I have owned several great Lexus vehicles and they were fantastic, but there are other cars that are as good or better depending on the needs of the person buying it.

Acura is a great car company. The new RL WILL get the attention of Lexus buyers. It is going to be fantastic. Acura was the first luxury Japanese marque. The Legend was "legendary" the way it showed Europeans that the Japanese could build a luxury performance sedan. Acura went head to head with Ferrari with the NSX and won. By the way, if an ES or LS cost $90k new, it would still be only worth about 5-10% of that in 13 years compared to the NSX at 50% of new purchase price. Sorry to burst your bubble there. It has nothing to do with initial price, it has everything to do with the fact that they hold their value. Lexus has yet to build a premier sports car of that caliber. Lexus has had many notable moments as well. I just don't think because you own either car, you suddenly can call everything else crap with no foundation or credible data. No one's flamed the Subaru Forrester yet, so why don't you try being more objective and less of a PIA!!! Go ahead with your reply. It will be something like, "You suck!!!!"

How insulting. What do you want Dave to do? I don't attack members, flagrantly violate policy, start "Car X iz teh sux0rz!!" threads or even make a general nusiance of myself. I attack Acura because I have a deep disdain for what they have become, or have not become, as the case may be. The company that let the Legend fade away and relegated the NSX to back burner isn't go to win my praise. They had potential, which they squandered.

And Infiniti finally comes up with a decent car (the G35) and people think it's God's gift to man and decide that Infninti should get all the praise in the world. Let me tell you something, as good as the G35 is, it doesn't erase the memory of the G20 or generation after generation of botched-up, irrelevant Q45 sedans. Not to mention ridiculous obscurities like the M30 and current M45.

What do you want from me, or CL in general? I'm sorry, I'm not going pander to Acura owners who come here looking for support. I'm not going to attack them, but I'm not going to go out of my way to praise cars that I deem to be inferior.

You really ought to tone it down a bit. Firstly, you have not been a CL member long enough to get to know me or my ways. I can objectively say I post some of the most coherent, complete, and logical arguments on this forum (how can you possibly think Xenthar's posts more logical and constructive than mine???).

See the Volvo S40 thread for an example.

The difference with me is that I am passionate and am one of the few people on CL still willing to stick my neck out and speak out with strong conviction. People like you would like to see me banned, but I don't think that's ever going to happen because I don't fall into the traps of saying things like "You suck!" and "Acuras are crap!!" So stop inventing things. I justify what I say and always attempt to provide reliable third-party substantiation whenever possible, but I'm not going to give a "wantanewlex 101" course to n00bs who don't understand my ways. I use edgy humor in my posts, and I am sorry if people are so thin-skinned that they cannot take it. You push my buttons, I'll push yours.

The Car Chat Forum is a place where people can come to extole the virtues of their Acuras and Infinitis. It's also the place where I can criticize whatever makes I choose...Surprise! Acura and Infiniti.

Go ahead and criticize my Subaru. It's nearly impossible to fault, considering its price. What are you gonna do? Call it a homosexual mommy wagon and question my manhood? Go ahead, friend, I've already been down that road numerous times. Visit a Subaru Forester forum. I can guarantee you won't find "The thunderstrom raped my paint last night" threads, or anything even remotely like that.

In all honesty, I wish we could ban all threads debating Infninti, and particularly Acura, because they lead nowhere. The legions of Acura and Infiniti fanboys that pass through the world known as CL will never convince me to jump ship, or even give it serious consideration, and I usually just waste time trying to pull them out of fantasy world they live in.

:egads:

Originally posted by rogers
Dam, that's a pretty bold statement for a person that's not drive a luxury vehicle.

The key here is that my Subaru is not pretending to be a luxury vehicle. Get my drift? I think 1Sick is the only guy who sees eye-to-eye with me on this...

rominl

07-14-04, 10:40 AM

careful guys, i don't want to end up closing another acura thread

AdrianXT

07-14-04, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by rominl
careful guys, i don't want to end up closing another acura thread

Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea. I don't see this thread going anywhere.

Another one bites the dust...:thumbdn:

rogers2

07-14-04, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by wantAnewLex
How insulting. What do you want Dave to do? I don't attack members, flagrantly violate policy, start "Car X iz teh sux0rz!!" threads or even make a general nusiance of myself. I attack Acura because I have a deep disdain for what they have become, or have not become, as the case may be. The company that let the Legend fade away and relegated the NSX to back burner isn't go to win my praise. They had potential, which they squandered.

And Infiniti finally comes up with a decent car (the G35) and people think it's God's gift to man and decide that Infninti should get all the praise in the world. Let me tell you something, as good as the G35 is, it doesn't erase the memory of the G20 or generation after generation of botched-up, irrelevant Q45 sedans. Not to mention ridiculous obscurities like the M30 and current M45.

What do you want from me, or CL in general? I'm sorry, I'm not going pander to Acura owners who come here looking for support. I'm not going to attack them, but I'm not going to go out of my way to praise cars that I deem to be inferior.

You really ought to tone it down a bit. Firstly, you have not been a CL member long enough to get to know me or my ways. I can objectively say I post some of the most coherent, complete, and logical arguments on this forum (how can you possibly think Xenthar's posts more logical and constructive than mine???).

See the Volvo S40 thread for an example.

The difference with me is that I am passionate and am one of the few people on CL still willing to stick my neck out and speak out with strong conviction. People like you would like to see me banned, but I don't think that's ever going to happen because I don't fall into the traps of saying things like "You suck!" and "Acuras are crap!!" So stop inventing things. I justify what I say and always attempt to provide reliable third-party substantiation whenever possible, but I'm not going to give a "wantanewlex 101" course to n00bs who don't understand my ways. I use edgy humor in my posts, and I am sorry if people are so thin-skinned that they cannot take it. You push my buttons, I'll push yours.

The Car Chat Forum is a place where people can come to extole the virtues of their Acuras and Infinitis. It's also the place where I can criticize whatever makes I choose...Surprise! Acura and Infiniti.

Go ahead and criticize my Subaru. It's nearly impossible to fault, considering its price. What are you gonna do? Call it a homosexual mommy wagon and question my manhood? Go ahead, friend, I've already been down that road numerous times. Visit a Subaru Forester forum. I can guarantee you won't find "The thunderstrom raped my paint last night" threads, or anything even remotely like that.

In all honesty, I wish we could ban all threads debating Infninti, and particularly Acura, because they lead nowhere. The legions of Acura and Infiniti fanboys that pass through the world known as CL will never convince me to jump ship, or even give it serious consideration, and I usually just waste time trying to pull them out of fantasy world they live in.

:egads:

The key here is that my Subaru is not pretending to be a luxury vehicle. Get my drift? I think 1Sick is the only guy who sees eye-to-eye with me on this...

It's nothing wrong with you voicing your opinion. But it's crazy for you to bash a car that you don't own or haven't even test drive. You had the nerve to call the car junk. Which is really going a little too far?
Basis on a few threads you have read via the internet or b/c it's not rwd. Where is the rule book that the car company must do everything another car does to be luxury.
A matter fact I don't praise any car company but you for one driving a Subaru and bashing an entry luxury car is crazy. That offers some of the best features that no car in its class offers at 32K. I love Lexus for its reliable & customer svr and that's about it.
Also Lexus is a lot cheaper than Mb for the same luxury and features.
I can't bash Subaru b/c I don't know anyone that owns one. Plus I don't own one or haven't test drive one. I guess you now understand where I’m coming from I can't fully judge what I don't know anything about. Unlike what you are doing to the Acura Tl.

Captain Bone

07-14-04, 12:02 PM

Well Well Well.. Another debate thread.

I haven't posted in a few days because I've been busy with poker and baseball but I just wanted to take a few seconds of my time to point out one thing I think some people may be missing.

1Sick visits many different car forums and posts a lot more than anyone I know.

If Sick is showing evidence after evidence of the facts that the Acura isn't performing then where exactly is the arguement? If there are faults and they aren't being corrected to a MASS degree then the discussion is over. Am I wrong?

-Anthony

98Nav400

07-14-04, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Captain Bone
I haven't posted in a few days because I've been busy with poker and baseball -Anthony

Tough Schedule.................:egads:

Captain Bone

07-14-04, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by 98Nav400
Tough Schedule.................:egads:

I'm a college student. When I say baseball, it doesn't mean I'm playing.

I groundskeep 3 baseball fields and umpire at least 2 games a day. When I have other free time I like to play a little poker.

If your going to say "tough schedule", get the facts first. :)

-Anthony

AdrianXT

07-14-04, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by rogers
It's nothing wrong with you voicing your opinion. But it's crazy for you to bash a car that you don't own or haven't even test drive. You had the nerve to call the car junk. Which is really going a little too far?
Basis on a few threads you have read via the internet or b/c it's not rwd. Where is the rule book that the car company must do everything another car does to be luxury.
A matter fact I don't praise any car company but you for one driving a Subaru and bashing an entry luxury car is crazy. That offers some of the best features that no car in its class offers at 32K. I love Lexus for its reliable & customer svr and that's about it.
Also Lexus is a lot cheaper than Mb for the same luxury and features.
I can't bash Subaru b/c I don't know anyone that owns one. Plus I don't own one or haven't test drive one. I guess you now understand where I’m coming from I can't fully judge what I don't know anything about. Unlike what you are doing to the Acura Tl.

That's an incredibly weak excuse. Your rhetoric doesn't fly with me. That's like saying people can't criticize or evaluate, well, pretty much anything unless they've done it or tried it. I have no desire to own or even test drive a TL. And I've made it abundantly clear as to why I feel that way.

rogers2

07-14-04, 01:26 PM

Yeh, kind like taking a test without even reading the book. Just reading the clip notes isn't enough.

rominl

07-14-04, 02:55 PM

you know, to everyone who has gone OT (even me if that matters), get back on topic and see if the TL is good. no more acura as a whole thing or so. just the TL, good or not, yes or no. i don't want to see any other thing anymore in this thread, period.

1SICKLEX

07-14-04, 03:23 PM

If Sick is showing evidence after evidence of the facts that the Acura isn't performing then where exactly is the arguement? If there are faults and they aren't being corrected to a MASS degree then the discussion is over. Am I wrong?

That is what I don't understand. Fanboysz are acting like I am making this up. I didn't start the tranny re-call. I didn't start the lemon lists. I didn't decide to move production from Japan (1st gen which is ROCK SOLID and recommended as a great used car) to Ohio where they can't seem to glue a headliner to the roof of the car. I happen to have changed the oil in a TL (a person I consider a sister works for Honda Finance), best friend has a CL-S (went through tranny) another good friend went through 3 trannies in his CL (has a Maxima now) etc etc. I think I counted 5 people I know that DO NOT POST ON ANY FORUM that went through a tranny with Acura. So the problem is BIGGER than the forums.

98Nav400

07-14-04, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Captain Bone
I'm a college student. When I say baseball, it doesn't mean I'm playing.

I groundskeep 3 baseball fields and umpire at least 2 games a day. When I have other free time I like to play a little poker.

If your going to say "tough schedule", get the facts first. :)

-Anthony

No disrespect intended; but even that schedule sounds like more fun than my 10X10 Jr Executive Cubicle yet less fun than I initially imagined.

On Topic...I think that the tranny's are a "real" problem and hope that Acura gets that solved. The other things mentioned are for the most part what I would consider minor problems common with many first year models. I would still disagree that the TL is a bad car, or not a good value for the price. I would definately consider it a front runner in that price category.

Lets not forget that the GS's weren't perfect in 1998 either:
list of 1998 GS400 TSB's
AX001R-01 010525 Trunk - Retrofit Internal Release Kits
PG016-01 010504 Vehicle Identification Number - Replacement Plates
PG015-01 010504 Vehicle - Replacement Certification Labels
EG002-01 010427 EVAP System - Design/Operation/Diagnostics
NV005-01 010330 Glove Box - Rattling Noise
BO005-01 010323 Seat Belt - Revised Tongue Plate Stopper
BO003-01 010316 Headlamp - Service Parts Availability
AX001-01 010309 Internal Trunk Release - Retrofit Kits
ST001-01 010216 Steering Wheel Nut - Torque Standardization
AC001-01 010112 A/C Indicators - Malfunction
PG017-99 001224 Vehicle - Year 2000 Readiness Disclosure
EL008-99 001210 Engine Immobilizer System - Precautions
SS003-00 001208 Diagnostic Tester - Communication Error w/TIS
PG005-00 000721 Service Manual - Page Corrections
AC001-00 000701 A/C - Compressor Maintenance During Storage
EL003-00 000421 Distance Since Refueling Display - Inaccurate
ST002-00 000414 Steering Column - Slider Sub Assembly Available
NV005-00 000414 Center Seat Belt Retractor Cover - Rattle
PG001-00 000407 CA/50 State Certified Emission Control Label Ordering
AX001-00 000317 Towing - Dinghy Towing (Four Wheels On the Ground)
NV001-00 000107 Garage Door Opener - Rattle
NV003-00 000107 Glove Box - Rattle Noise
BO005-99 991224 Seat Belt Extender - Availability
BO004-99 991203 Moonroof - Creak Noise Reduction
SU001-99 990917 Wheel Balance - Adjustment Procedure
TC003-99 990910 A/T - Fluid Recommendations
SS007-99 990709 SST Program - Special Service Tools
SS004-99 990618 Wireless Recognition Codes - Alternate Register Method
SS006-99 990618 Scantool Immobilizer - Key Code Utility
EL005-99 990604 Power Moon Roof - Motor
PA002-99 990521 Paint - Refinish Formula Codes
PG010-99 990514 Service - Manual Corrections
BO002-99 990423 Glove Box Switch - Rattle Noise
SS001-99 990409 Diagnostic Tester - Customize Program Card Update
TC001-99 990409 Drive Shaft - Grease Revision
AU001-99 990402 AM Radio - Crosstalk Interference
AX003-99 990319 Dinghy Towing Guide - With Four Wheels on the Ground
EL002-99 990312 Antitheft - Troubleshooting Immobilizer DTC B2795
EL003-99 990312 Antitheft - Troubleshooting Immobilizer DTC B2796
PG002-99 990205 Brakes - Publication Correction Information.
SS002-98 981211 Tools - Installing Rivet Nuts
NV018-98 981030 Instrument Panel Area - Squeaks & Rattles
NV019-98 981030 Package Tray Trim Area - Squeaks & Rattles
NV020-98 981030 Glove Box Area - Squeak & Rattle Service Tips
NV021-98 981030 Interior - Squeaks/Rubbing Noise
AU003-98 981030 Radio - Inoperative In CD Mode
BR002-98 980909 Brakes - Hydraulic Pressure Switch R&R Corrections
AC003-98 980904 A/C - Soluction to General Malfunctions
BO004-98 980717 Seat Cover - Service For Side Airbag Equipped Vehicles
BO003-98 980703 Seat Belt - Extenders are Available
SS001-98 980626 Vehicle - Special Service Tools
ST003R-98 980619 Steering - Vibration/Flutter
TC003-98 980619 A/T - Fluid, Type T-IV Introduction
PG004-98 980605 Service Manual - Publication Correction Information
NHTSA98V080000 980601 Recall 98V080000: Improper VSC Operation
NHTSA98V080000 980519 Recall 98V080000: VSC Can Operate Improperly
BO002-98 980424 Door - Disassembly Precautions
BO001-98 980424 Seat Belt - Extenders Available
NV002-98 980417 Wind Noise Service Tips
EL006-98 980410 Tachometer - Incorrect Indication
EL004-98 980410 Wireless Door Lock Control - Programming
EL005-98 980410 Cigarette Lighter - Service
TC002-98 980213 ECM - MIL ON, DTC P0715 Set
EL001-98 980123 Engine Immobilizer - System Precautions
ST001-98 980109 Progressive Power Steering (PPS) - Manual Corrections
EL002-97 971201 Fuel Gauge - Incorrect Reading
EG007-97 971114 Serpentine Belt - Squealing Noise on Cold Start Up
PA00297 971114 Paint - Colors
SS002-97 971031 Customize Program Card - Version 1.0 Update
BO007-97 971024 Seat Belt - Extenders Availability
PG005-97 970919 Fuse - Installation During PDS
PG006-97 970719 License Plate - Installation During PDS
PG003-97 970718 Certification Labels - Replacement Policy
PG002-97 970321 Air Bag - Information Label On Glove Box Door
PG002-96 960405 Emission Control Label Order Form CA/50 State Certified
PG93-004 930514 A/C - Ozone Depleting Substance Caution Labels
PG93-003 930409 Vin Plates/Certification Labels - Replacement
PGI004 910913 Recycled Coolant - Usage Recommendations
BODY026 910816 Body - Permanent Type Protective Wax Coatings

Throw in a bad tranny, and we're not too far from the TL....

1SICKLEX

07-14-04, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by 98Nav400
No disrespect intended; but even that schedule sounds like more fun than my 10X10 Jr Executive Cubicle yet less fun than I initially imagined.

On Topic...I think that the tranny's are a "real" problem and hope that Acura gets that solved. The other things mentioned are for the most part what I would consider minor problems common with many first year models. I would still disagree that the TL is a bad car, or not a good value for the price. I would definately consider it a front runner in that price category.

Lets not forget that the GS's weren't perfect in 1998 either:
list of 1998 GS400 TSB's
AX001R-01 010525 Trunk - Retrofit Internal Release Kits
PG016-01 010504 Vehicle Identification Number - Replacement Plates
PG015-01 010504 Vehicle - Replacement Certification Labels
EG002-01 010427 EVAP System - Design/Operation/Diagnostics
NV005-01 010330 Glove Box - Rattling Noise
BO005-01 010323 Seat Belt - Revised Tongue Plate Stopper
BO003-01 010316 Headlamp - Service Parts Availability
AX001-01 010309 Internal Trunk Release - Retrofit Kits
ST001-01 010216 Steering Wheel Nut - Torque Standardization
AC001-01 010112 A/C Indicators - Malfunction
PG017-99 001224 Vehicle - Year 2000 Readiness Disclosure
EL008-99 001210 Engine Immobilizer System - Precautions
SS003-00 001208 Diagnostic Tester - Communication Error w/TIS
PG005-00 000721 Service Manual - Page Corrections
AC001-00 000701 A/C - Compressor Maintenance During Storage
EL003-00 000421 Distance Since Refueling Display - Inaccurate
ST002-00 000414 Steering Column - Slider Sub Assembly Available
NV005-00 000414 Center Seat Belt Retractor Cover - Rattle
PG001-00 000407 CA/50 State Certified Emission Control Label Ordering
AX001-00 000317 Towing - Dinghy Towing (Four Wheels On the Ground)
NV001-00 000107 Garage Door Opener - Rattle
NV003-00 000107 Glove Box - Rattle Noise
BO005-99 991224 Seat Belt Extender - Availability
BO004-99 991203 Moonroof - Creak Noise Reduction
SU001-99 990917 Wheel Balance - Adjustment Procedure
TC003-99 990910 A/T - Fluid Recommendations
SS007-99 990709 SST Program - Special Service Tools
SS004-99 990618 Wireless Recognition Codes - Alternate Register Method
SS006-99 990618 Scantool Immobilizer - Key Code Utility
EL005-99 990604 Power Moon Roof - Motor
PA002-99 990521 Paint - Refinish Formula Codes
PG010-99 990514 Service - Manual Corrections
BO002-99 990423 Glove Box Switch - Rattle Noise
SS001-99 990409 Diagnostic Tester - Customize Program Card Update
TC001-99 990409 Drive Shaft - Grease Revision
AU001-99 990402 AM Radio - Crosstalk Interference
AX003-99 990319 Dinghy Towing Guide - With Four Wheels on the Ground
EL002-99 990312 Antitheft - Troubleshooting Immobilizer DTC B2795
EL003-99 990312 Antitheft - Troubleshooting Immobilizer DTC B2796
PG002-99 990205 Brakes - Publication Correction Information.
SS002-98 981211 Tools - Installing Rivet Nuts
NV018-98 981030 Instrument Panel Area - Squeaks & Rattles
NV019-98 981030 Package Tray Trim Area - Squeaks & Rattles
NV020-98 981030 Glove Box Area - Squeak & Rattle Service Tips
NV021-98 981030 Interior - Squeaks/Rubbing Noise
AU003-98 981030 Radio - Inoperative In CD Mode
BR002-98 980909 Brakes - Hydraulic Pressure Switch R&R Corrections
AC003-98 980904 A/C - Soluction to General Malfunctions
BO004-98 980717 Seat Cover - Service For Side Airbag Equipped Vehicles
BO003-98 980703 Seat Belt - Extenders are Available
SS001-98 980626 Vehicle - Special Service Tools
ST003R-98 980619 Steering - Vibration/Flutter
TC003-98 980619 A/T - Fluid, Type T-IV Introduction
PG004-98 980605 Service Manual - Publication Correction Information
NHTSA98V080000 980601 Recall 98V080000: Improper VSC Operation
NHTSA98V080000 980519 Recall 98V080000: VSC Can Operate Improperly
BO002-98 980424 Door - Disassembly Precautions
BO001-98 980424 Seat Belt - Extenders Available
NV002-98 980417 Wind Noise Service Tips
EL006-98 980410 Tachometer - Incorrect Indication
EL004-98 980410 Wireless Door Lock Control - Programming
EL005-98 980410 Cigarette Lighter - Service
TC002-98 980213 ECM - MIL ON, DTC P0715 Set
EL001-98 980123 Engine Immobilizer - System Precautions
ST001-98 980109 Progressive Power Steering (PPS) - Manual Corrections
EL002-97 971201 Fuel Gauge - Incorrect Reading
EG007-97 971114 Serpentine Belt - Squealing Noise on Cold Start Up
PA00297 971114 Paint - Colors
SS002-97 971031 Customize Program Card - Version 1.0 Update
BO007-97 971024 Seat Belt - Extenders Availability
PG005-97 970919 Fuse - Installation During PDS
PG006-97 970719 License Plate - Installation During PDS
PG003-97 970718 Certification Labels - Replacement Policy
PG002-97 970321 Air Bag - Information Label On Glove Box Door
PG002-96 960405 Emission Control Label Order Form CA/50 State Certified
PG93-004 930514 A/C - Ozone Depleting Substance Caution Labels
PG93-003 930409 Vin Plates/Certification Labels - Replacement
PGI004 910913 Recycled Coolant - Usage Recommendations
BODY026 910816 Body - Permanent Type Protective Wax Coatings

Throw in a bad tranny, and we're not too far from the TL....

If the GS 300/400 was not the most reliable car in it's class for the past 5 or so years, maybe this would hold more weight.

No Lexus is perfect. Lexus just happens to make the cars nearest to no problems. And with TSBs, they can ben anything, like
PG002-97 970321 Air Bag - Information Label On Glove Box Door.

I remember I had to take my 98 GS in for some issue with the doorlock. They fixed it in an hour and never had an issue. We all know with Lexus sunroofs, the top crackles and pops with heat/cold.

But honestly, to say the GS is close to the TL in quality and execution is a huge s t r e t c h

Iceman

07-14-04, 05:20 PM

Let me T R Y to get us back on-topic...

I have two coworkers who are in the market for a new car. Neither one is looking to buy immediately, but both are ready when the right vehicle comes along with the right deal. They are both looking for cars in the TL price range and feature set (luxury/near-luxury features, decent performance, four-door practicality without stodginess, etc.). They've both heard buzz about the new TL and are considering it, to varying degrees, in their comparison shopping.

One is a guy who drives a Volvo S60. He'd love an S60R but can't bring himself to take the big depreciation hit on his current car just to get the SAME car with a bigger engine. He loves my GS but doesn't want to spend the money for a 430, and can't see getting it with the 6-cylinder. He won't go for a 3-series or C-class because of poor reliability and how little you get for the price. The Saab 9-5 was briefly under consideration but he decided it's too boring. If the G35 sedan looked more like the coupe he'd be considering it. The IS is too "fast and furious" for him.

That pretty much leaves the TL. He didn't used to have it on his list because he thought the styling was boring--in his words, he'd never spend that much on a car that looked that plain. But that was before the new bodystyle came out, and now I'd place even money that he'll be driving one by the end of the year. He loves the aggressive new look and the unbeatable array of technology and features for the price.

My other coworker is a girl who loves her Accord but wants to step up in the world. She's waffling between a sporty coupe and a sedan, but is probably practical enough to stick with a 4-door. It's almost certain she'll be in a G35 by the end of the year. In a complete flip-flop from the other guy, she really liked the classy, conservative style of the old TL but won't even consider the new "testosterone-laden" one. It's simply too aggressive and manly for her tastes.

I've told both about the supposed transmission problems. Neither one cares--Acura has a far better than average reputation for quality and customer service, and they figure they'll be treated properly if a problem does materialize. So basically that didn't even enter into the equation for either one when deciding for or against the TL.

Ice350

07-14-04, 05:26 PM

I am really beginning to like the looks of this car. Saw one Sat at the wheelshop with 19 in chrome wheels that looked nice. Saw one today that blew my mind. Had the new Lowenhart LSR's in silver. I know a lot of guys around here don't like them but I think those wheels looked great on it.

Technics

07-14-04, 05:36 PM

The TL is a GREAT LOOKING car. Minus these tranny glitches and FWD, I would be right in line for a 2004 6MT.

1SICKLEX

07-14-04, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by Technics
The TL is a GREAT LOOKING car. Minus these tranny glitches and FWD, I would be right in line for a 2004 6MT.

There is no doubt the 04 TL is a great looking car.:thumbup:

Gojirra99

07-14-04, 07:52 PM

I like it, except the chopped off tail end,

Doc C

07-14-04, 08:53 PM

mmarshall,

never meant to insult you my friend. How's the SC running?? the NSX is fantastic. I'm taking it to Pike's Peak International Raceway in a week or two for some high speed fun. I've about got it good and broke in now. It already has 2,700 miles!!! By the way, the Subaru Forrester is a fantastic car, wantanewlex. In Colorado, they are very popular and IMO, one of the best mud and snow vehicles there are. They just need a Forrester WRX model now. Hmmm.

TL styling is great. The only thing is that the TSX styling is VERY similar. I think there should have been more differentiation between the two cars. The guages are fantastic in the TL. I didn't think the stereo was as good as the ML I had in my SC430. I don't think most home stereos are as good as the Mark Levinson in the Lexus vehicles. Bose can't seem to make a good car stereo. The one I had in my Infiniti was fantastic, but that was 10 years ago. The Bose in my '04 NSX is terrible compared to the stereo in my VW Touareg.

The TL should be competitive in its price segment and provide Acura with some solid sales numbers. Good day.

rominl

07-14-04, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Technics
The TL is a GREAT LOOKING car. Minus these tranny glitches and FWD, I would be right in line for a 2004 6MT.

yup, if it's rwd, i would really consider the 6 speed, it would be such a good combo

doug_999

07-14-04, 10:24 PM

What I don't understand is that if Acura is such a piece of junk, why are their Consumer Reports ratings so high? I don't have the book right here with me (I'm on the road) but last I checked the car was as reliable if not more than Lexus. Rumor has it their service is PDG too.

JD Power on the otherhand sort of cracks me up. When I read about their "long term quality" it includes things like brake dust on wheels where the German cars lag because their wheels get more dusty than the Japanese models. The fact that that even figures into long term quality is just amazing.

Xenthar

07-15-04, 02:24 AM

rogers2

07-15-04, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by 98Nav400
No disrespect intended; but even that schedule sounds like more fun than my 10X10 Jr Executive Cubicle yet less fun than I initially imagined.

On Topic...I think that the tranny's are a "real" problem and hope that Acura gets that solved. The other things mentioned are for the most part what I would consider minor problems common with many first year models. I would still disagree that the TL is a bad car, or not a good value for the price. I would definately consider it a front runner in that price category.

Lets not forget that the GS's weren't perfect in 1998 either:
list of 1998 GS400 TSB's
AX001R-01 010525 Trunk - Retrofit Internal Release Kits
PG016-01 010504 Vehicle Identification Number - Replacement Plates
PG015-01 010504 Vehicle - Replacement Certification Labels
EG002-01 010427 EVAP System - Design/Operation/Diagnostics
NV005-01 010330 Glove Box - Rattling Noise
BO005-01 010323 Seat Belt - Revised Tongue Plate Stopper
BO003-01 010316 Headlamp - Service Parts Availability
AX001-01 010309 Internal Trunk Release - Retrofit Kits
ST001-01 010216 Steering Wheel Nut - Torque Standardization
AC001-01 010112 A/C Indicators - Malfunction
PG017-99 001224 Vehicle - Year 2000 Readiness Disclosure
EL008-99 001210 Engine Immobilizer System - Precautions
SS003-00 001208 Diagnostic Tester - Communication Error w/TIS
PG005-00 000721 Service Manual - Page Corrections
AC001-00 000701 A/C - Compressor Maintenance During Storage
EL003-00 000421 Distance Since Refueling Display - Inaccurate
ST002-00 000414 Steering Column - Slider Sub Assembly Available
NV005-00 000414 Center Seat Belt Retractor Cover - Rattle
PG001-00 000407 CA/50 State Certified Emission Control Label Ordering
AX001-00 000317 Towing - Dinghy Towing (Four Wheels On the Ground)
NV001-00 000107 Garage Door Opener - Rattle
NV003-00 000107 Glove Box - Rattle Noise
BO005-99 991224 Seat Belt Extender - Availability
BO004-99 991203 Moonroof - Creak Noise Reduction
SU001-99 990917 Wheel Balance - Adjustment Procedure
TC003-99 990910 A/T - Fluid Recommendations
SS007-99 990709 SST Program - Special Service Tools
SS004-99 990618 Wireless Recognition Codes - Alternate Register Method
SS006-99 990618 Scantool Immobilizer - Key Code Utility
EL005-99 990604 Power Moon Roof - Motor
PA002-99 990521 Paint - Refinish Formula Codes
PG010-99 990514 Service - Manual Corrections
BO002-99 990423 Glove Box Switch - Rattle Noise
SS001-99 990409 Diagnostic Tester - Customize Program Card Update
TC001-99 990409 Drive Shaft - Grease Revision
AU001-99 990402 AM Radio - Crosstalk Interference
AX003-99 990319 Dinghy Towing Guide - With Four Wheels on the Ground
EL002-99 990312 Antitheft - Troubleshooting Immobilizer DTC B2795
EL003-99 990312 Antitheft - Troubleshooting Immobilizer DTC B2796
PG002-99 990205 Brakes - Publication Correction Information.
SS002-98 981211 Tools - Installing Rivet Nuts
NV018-98 981030 Instrument Panel Area - Squeaks & Rattles
NV019-98 981030 Package Tray Trim Area - Squeaks & Rattles
NV020-98 981030 Glove Box Area - Squeak & Rattle Service Tips
NV021-98 981030 Interior - Squeaks/Rubbing Noise
AU003-98 981030 Radio - Inoperative In CD Mode
BR002-98 980909 Brakes - Hydraulic Pressure Switch R&R Corrections
AC003-98 980904 A/C - Soluction to General Malfunctions
BO004-98 980717 Seat Cover - Service For Side Airbag Equipped Vehicles
BO003-98 980703 Seat Belt - Extenders are Available
SS001-98 980626 Vehicle - Special Service Tools
ST003R-98 980619 Steering - Vibration/Flutter
TC003-98 980619 A/T - Fluid, Type T-IV Introduction
PG004-98 980605 Service Manual - Publication Correction Information
NHTSA98V080000 980601 Recall 98V080000: Improper VSC Operation
NHTSA98V080000 980519 Recall 98V080000: VSC Can Operate Improperly
BO002-98 980424 Door - Disassembly Precautions
BO001-98 980424 Seat Belt - Extenders Available
NV002-98 980417 Wind Noise Service Tips
EL006-98 980410 Tachometer - Incorrect Indication
EL004-98 980410 Wireless Door Lock Control - Programming
EL005-98 980410 Cigarette Lighter - Service
TC002-98 980213 ECM - MIL ON, DTC P0715 Set
EL001-98 980123 Engine Immobilizer - System Precautions
ST001-98 980109 Progressive Power Steering (PPS) - Manual Corrections
EL002-97 971201 Fuel Gauge - Incorrect Reading
EG007-97 971114 Serpentine Belt - Squealing Noise on Cold Start Up
PA00297 971114 Paint - Colors
SS002-97 971031 Customize Program Card - Version 1.0 Update
BO007-97 971024 Seat Belt - Extenders Availability
PG005-97 970919 Fuse - Installation During PDS
PG006-97 970719 License Plate - Installation During PDS
PG003-97 970718 Certification Labels - Replacement Policy
PG002-97 970321 Air Bag - Information Label On Glove Box Door
PG002-96 960405 Emission Control Label Order Form CA/50 State Certified
PG93-004 930514 A/C - Ozone Depleting Substance Caution Labels
PG93-003 930409 Vin Plates/Certification Labels - Replacement
PGI004 910913 Recycled Coolant - Usage Recommendations
BODY026 910816 Body - Permanent Type Protective Wax Coatings

Throw in a bad tranny, and we're not too far from the TL....

Dam I didn't know the gs had that many problems back in the day. I guess I wasn't paying attention. I was so press on finding an old Legend. I guess all cars have their first year problems. But Acura definitely need to fix the transmission problem. Since I have spent some time with the new TL, I truly feel it's a nice car.
FYI: The new TL doesn’t come with a Bose system. I think it's Acura/ELS® Premium 8-speaker Surround Sound System. I know it definitely sounds a lot better than my Bose system.

mmarshall

07-16-04, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by doug_999
What I don't understand is that if Acura is such a piece of junk, why are their Consumer Reports ratings so high? I don't have the book right here with me (I'm on the road) but last I checked the car was as reliable if not more than Lexus. Rumor has it their service is PDG too.

JD Power on the otherhand sort of cracks me up. When I read about their "long term quality" it includes things like brake dust on wheels where the German cars lag because their wheels get more dusty than the Japanese models. The fact that that even figures into long term quality is just amazing.

The CR database for repair indicies and problems and reliability forecasts is probably more accurate and realistic than the J.D. Power system....and I say that as a regular J.D. Power panelist myself. I rely on CR more than any other single publication to advise people on what car is reliable and what isn't. That is because the CR system deals with actual repair rates, problems, and recalls. The J.D. Power system deals with all kinds of non-repair specific issues thrown in that deal with customer satisfaction, personal opinions, etc.....
Now....having said that, it is interesting on what CR and J.D. Power both agree on....such as Toyota / Lexus, Honda / Acura, and Infiniti being generally the most reliable nameplates, the rapid fall from grace of both BMW and Mercedes, and the astounding rise in quality of both Hyundai and Kia....Hyundai more so.