I was looking at an Audi Allroad and was hoping to get some opinions and experience with them. 6-speed 2.7T.

http://www.newenglandautomax.com/used_vehicle_details.htm?vehicleId=58d249174046382 4015d8d750a6dcfd9

Can't say I've driven one but I must say it is a very classy and impressive vehicle. A great SUV alternative. Details galore. I also think the ride height can be adjusted for off-road terrain.

I have no ideas of dealers are dealing them. I have heard SUVs on lots are staying an average of 73 days instead of 60 as people look at other alternatives, like the Allroad.

Yes, the Allroad rides and drives better than a conventional SUV, but if you want a vehicle of this type that excels in quality, reliability, value for money, a proven All-Wheel-Drive system, and all-around competence, it is hard to beat the new Subaru Outback. Like the Allroad, it also comes in a 2.5 Turbo version...and sells for MUCH less. Allroads can run well over 40K. Outbacks run from 24K-33K.

If you don't take my word for this, go look at and test the vehicle on your own...you will see for yourself.

You tell my wife to let me buy the Subaru and we have a deal. I was actually thinking about a used Allroad 01, for around 30K.

Originally posted by ISfrmHoldn
You tell my wife to let me buy the Subaru and we have a deal. I was actually thinking about a used Allroad 01, for around 30K.

If you and your wife really like the Allroad...fine. It has some nice things going for it......like a nice German feel to the steering and chassis, all-weather capability with the Quattro AWD system and higher ground clearance, plenty of room to carry things, and good attention to detail and fit-and-finish inside. But 30K for a used Allroad will get you a brand-new Outback and $5000 in the bank...and I don't think you will be disappointed in the new Outback's interior either...it is fabulous for the price. In fact, if a Subaru dealer is willing do discount a couple thousand, 30K may get you an L.L Bean or a 3.0 VDC Outback with an even classier interior and options.

So the "Suburu" name is a deal killer for the wife? I also think this may pose problems as loaded Legacys and Outbacks are near 35k.

Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
So the "Suburu" name is a deal killer for the wife? I also think this may pose problems as loaded Legacys and Outbacks are near 35k.

L.L.Beans and 3.0L H6 VDC Outbacks run 32-33K on average, but at least this gets you a brand-new WELL-appointed car...and one with a generally good reliability record, at least better than Audi's. And if he and his wife are willing to give up a little power, the 5-speed overdrive automatic sportshift for a 4-speed overdrive automatic with sportshift, the regular 2.5 Outbacks go for 24-26K and the Turbo 2.5's for a couple thousand more....and all of the 2.5L's, turbos or not, can be had with 5-speed manuals too.
And ALL of the Outbacks come with power driver seats and seat heaters...they are standard. The fake wood trim with the beige interiors (brushed aluminum with the dark interiors) is some of the best I've seen. Subaru really put a lot of attention into this car inside.
I think so highly of this car I may buy one myself.....but, of course, we're dealing here with ISfrmHoldn's needs, not ours.

I too lIke the Subaru's, I would have bought a WRX instead of the IS if my wife didn't request otherwise.

My wife does not like Subaru's because every time she sees one she thinks of all the rusted out Loyale sedans we are used ot seeing in New England. (Those cars were monsters in the snow, AWD and skinny 13" tires got them thru anything) To her the Subaru is too "thin" I'll have to take her for a TD in the Outbacks and see if I can sway her on the issue. She grew up on Volvos and Volkswagens(Audi) so I've got a tough cookie to crack she had very few experiences with the cars having problems.

One question I do have on the new Subaru, do the doors have a full frame to them or is the top portion just the glass?

Thanks to all for the replys thus far. I'm not too concerned about the money factor, but I'm not going to spend $50K on a wagon at this point in my life. By the way, has this turned into a discussion on Subaru's or the Audi Allroad? :cool:

Originally posted by ISfrmHoldn
I
One question I do have on the new Subaru, do the doors have a full frame to them or is the top portion just the glass?

By the way, has this turned into a discussion on Subaru's or the Audi Allroad? :cool:


I've tried to cover the good and bad things about both the Allroad and the Outback. I just brought up the idea of a brand-new Outback because I thought it was a better investment for your hard-earned 30K.

To answer the question...all current Subarus that I know of in the U.S. market still have frameless side windows. This also includes the new Saab 9-2X, which is a rebadged AWD Impreza.

As I stated in my earlier post, though.......if you like a German feel to the car, then consider the Allroad. It will do everything the Outback will in snow and return a crisper Teutonic steering and handling feel as well.

Originally posted by mmarshall
I've tried to cover the good and bad things about both the Allroad and the Outback. I just brought up the idea of a brand-new Outback because I thought it was a better investment for your hard-earned 30K.

To answer the question...all current Subarus that I know of in the U.S. market still have frameless side windows. This also includes the new Saab 9-2X, which is a rebadged AWD Impreza.

As I stated in my earlier post, though.......if you like a German feel to the car, then consider the Allroad. It will do everything the Outback will in snow and return a crisper Teutonic steering and handling feel as well.

Thank you for all the info and I truly appreciate any recommendations regarding alternatives for similarly priced cars. I've heard they call the Saab 9-2X a Saabaru and I love that car but think it may be too small if I'm gonna have a family soon.

I added a link to my initial post if you guys/girls wanted to check it out.

Originally posted by ISfrmHoldn
Thank you for all the info and I truly appreciate any recommendations regarding alternatives for similarly priced cars. I've heard they call the Saab 9-2X a Saabaru and I love that car but think it may be too small if I'm gonna have a family soon.

I added a link to my initial post if you guys/girls wanted to check it out.

Well, then, in the 25-40K price range for AWD cars suitable for slippery roads...here are some more possibilities:

The AWD Jaguar X-Class. A wagon version is forthcoming....but this car has had reliability problems.

The forthcoming AWD Dodge Magnum Wagon and AWD Chrysler 300C...but these cars are cheaply built and are relatively untested for reliability.

The Volvo V50 T5 AWD wagon...starts at 28K. Great Mazda-derived chassis but new and untested for reliability.

VW Passat 4-Motion AWD Wagon....excellent ergonomics, refinement, and roadability, and, unlike other VW products, has at least passable reliability. Runs generally mid-30s.

Infiniti G35X AWD sedan....starts low 30's. Interior a little on the cheap side but an excellent sports sedan with plenty of power and typical Infiniti top-notch reliability.

My brother in Scotland has a turbo deisel all-road and has had nothing but problems. Turbo replaced, cam belt broke, other headaches. He hates it.

Sure looks nice though.

Now he bought an deisel MB ML - I guess he ain't too bright. :egads:

OK, so the Allroad is out of the running I am afraid. Don't feel like dealing with the issues of the air suspension (all though I think that is very neat.) I will say that there is an A4/S4 brochure on the coffee table at home and I would definitely consider the VW Passat 4Motion V6 if my father didn't have one already.

I may wait until the Volvo V50 (AWD T5 6-Speed is due out in fall 2004) has been around for a bit, the engine and transmission on that car have been around for a while and I would hope most of the bugs are worked out in a year. I may keep my IS and turn it into an SCCA car (which was my original intent) but not sure I'm going to have the time to do that right now. The whole idea of making a change resulted in a drive by of the Audi Allroad, bringin up the new car bug in my ear. Funny, I usually get that bug in the Spring.

If you don't need a lot of wagon room in the back, and can put up with a rather cheap interior for a sports sedan, the Infiniti G35 is an absolute blast to drive...and like I mentioned, it now comes in AWD form.

Originally posted by ISfrmHoldn


To her the Subaru is too "thin" I'll have to take her for a TD in the Outbacks and see if I can sway her on the issue.

Too bad that in safety tests the Subaru Forester, Legacy, etc. outscore the Audi A6, which the AllRoad is based on.

Originally posted by ISfrmHoldn


She grew up on Volvos and Volkswagens(Audi) so I've got a tough cookie to crack she had very few experiences with the cars having problems.

Few problems with Volvo and VW/Audi? Talk about Eurotrash. We bought enough Audis and VWs throughout the '80s to never go down that road again. Across the board, Subaru is definintely more reliable than Volvo or VW/Audi. By a long shot.

Originally posted by ISfrmHoldn

One question I do have on the new Subaru, do the doors have a full frame to them or is the top portion just the glass?

My Forester (and I'm guessing the Imp it's based on) has frameless windows. Frameless windows are great. Does your wife perceive the frameless windows to be a sign of a weak and thin structure? :egads:

It sucks to be you in this situation, and I feel for you. You would do well to check out a Forester XT. Plenty of performance, utility, and quality. All for about $25K, or less. There is absolutely nothing the AllRoad (or any other European wagon) has in advantage over the new Outback, Legacy wagon, or even the Forester.

mmm ...Audi S6?

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/audi/s6/100003701/roadtestarticle.html?articleId=48103&tid=edmunds.e.roadtests.content...Audi*

Dodge Magnum?

I love the Dodge Magnum (even if it looks a little like a hearse), especially if they come out with an AWD version.

Originally posted by Lex_Fnatic
mmm ...Audi S6?

[
Dodge Magnum?


Well, why not?..... A Magnum has the same wagon body, just as much room inside as the S6 wagon, plenty of power with the Hemi, and shortly may be offered with AWD to compete with the Audi's Quattro system.......for a LOT less money than the S6. True, Dodge's interiors and hardware cannot compete with Audi's and are made from much cheaper parts...if it is a classy interior you want, go ahead and get an A6.

SUBARU spelt backwards is U R A BUS!

Originally posted by ISfrmHoldn
SUBARU spelt backwards is U R A BUS!

Considering how fast the new Subarus are, though, many other cars do seem like a bus by comparison...;)

Originally posted by wantAnewLex
Considering how fast the new Subarus are, though, many other cars do seem like a bus by comparison...;)

I have to agree, it seems most of the Subaru's offered have an available engine of 200 plus HP across the board.

Originally posted by ISfrmHoldn
I have to agree, it seems most of the Subaru's offered have an available engine of 200 plus HP across the board.

Yup, Subaru is the only car manufacturer to offer a turbocharged version of each model with a stick shift. :cool:

Originally posted by wantAnewLex
Considering how fast the new Subarus are, though, many other cars do seem like a bus by comparison...;)

There's a lot more to Subarus and their good points than just speed. Seems like that is all so many people think about...just speed. It seems to be an obsession.

I'm seeing a lot of Dodge Magnums on the road already. NICE vehicle. Haven't seen interior yet but I assume it's nothing to write home about.

Originally posted by ISfrmHoldn
I have to agree, it seems most of the Subaru's offered have an available engine of 200 plus HP across the board.

The Baja was an exception....for a time it offered only the 165 HP non-turbo 2.5, but I believe that the Turbo Baja is now in production.