With the market overcrowded with 30k cars and Suvs by luxury and non-luxury makers and with some of the same features that are found on luxury cars on less expensive cars and non-luxury badged cars, what exactly makes luxury, luxury today? Many people think sprinkling some leather (even if it feels like dental floss), some fake wood or "wood grain", a sunroof and power windows is luxury. It can even be extended to Navigation systems trickling down and HID lights from luxury cars 8 years ago (where they were only found) to today, where Mazdas, Toyotas, Nissans etc have these features.

Is it the car? Is it now more important than ever to have top notch dealer service and the perks of owning a luxury marque?

Can luxury be based soley on price? Then the countless SUVs come to mind and even pick-up trucks. Dozens now cost 30k upward and now the 40-50k segment is getting crowded. There is nothing luxurious about owning most of these SUVs or trucks with their plasticky, minimalist interiors with wood stickied where they could. But there is no discounting their asking price. 50k is 50k (before rebates), no matter how non-luxurious something is.

Does the badge appeal matter more than ever? Do details matter? Do people notice how closely a glovebox fits? That the paint is of better quality?

The lines are blurry more than ever and with auto makers marketing stronger than ever, most people really only know what they tell them.

There are still some features luxury cars have to themselves. Laser guide cruise control. Parking assist. Bluetooth capabilities in the car. Rear seat heating/cooling and reclining. Adaptive suspensions. Hids with auto leveling or that turn with the steering wheel.
The thing is, these features have more to do with technology than the car themselves. In other words, these things are outsourced. So does packing a car with techno gizmos=luxury?

What about rebates? And re-sale value? These are rarely talked about in public but they do have a profound efffect on luxury and how desireable something is. Low re-sale and high rebates=undesirable, which= non-luxury. Now, again, you are driving an expensive vehicle no matter if they knocked 10k off MSRP. So how much luxury does this take away.

Does it come down to the heart and soul of the car, the engine? Do people really care. Luxury used to be talking about why your engine was the best in the world and how long it would last etc etc This is no longer the case. What about transmissions? And platform sharing? We live in a cost-cutting world where sharing is now acceptable. At what point does luxury need its own items?

We have discussed this in many other threads, so here is our thread to discuss this.
What is luxury?:)

Luxury, as I would define it, is something that would appeal to the human sense of comfort and pleasure.
As it applies to automobiles, luxury with the cars I grew up with usually meant 4000-5000 lbs. and up, wood paneling, cream-of-wheat suspension and tires, hood ornaments, vinyl roofs, a large, powerful 4-barrel carburated V8, whitewall tires....sometimes dual yellow-and-white-wall, full chrome wheel covers, standard 3-speed non-lockup torque converter, power windows /doors /locks, AM-FM stereo, velour or leather seats, and a SMOOTH quiet ride. These cars, for the most part, are extinct. The closest things to them still on today's market, IMO, are the Lincoln Town car and the Buick Park Avenue Ultra....though the Ultra is V6 and front-drive.

Today's "luxury" cars, on the other hand, define "luxury" in many different ways.....from BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machines" to Lincoln's "American luxury" and "Travelling Well" to Lexus' "Relentless Pursuit of Prefection" to Cadillac's equating it with Led Zepplin music to Acura's "Precision Crafted Performance"
to Mercedes' "Engineered like no other car in the world", and dozens of others. "Luxury " is not just measured in physical comfort any more, either.....as many stiffly-sprung "luxury" sports cars like the Porsche 911prove.
Then, there are "luxury" off-roaders like Land Rovers and Lexus LX470's that can be considered "luxury" simply because thet don't beat you up like Jeep Wranglers.

Perhaps a better definition of "Luxury" today is simply EXPENSIVE.

When I think of true luxury I think of RR, Bentley, Maybach, Maserati (sp) cars that are built for the passanger.
I also think that todays luxury is all preception, controlled by sly marketing methods. As was mentioned you can find most of luxury goodies in autos costing 30-40k less than those would be named top luxury lines. So what is luxury, dang near everything, even if its not your known luxury brand, thats why its hard to distinguish. I feel its our society, we want more more more, our society is pleasure driven and the automotive industry is cashing in on it. Give a person a cheap GM and add some crappy plastic wood press on and some pleather and a few cheap gaggets in it and whah la sticker price goes up up up on that low end car but remaining thousands cheaper than the big dogs and their you have it. Auto makers getting richer on low end cars because its owners perceive they have a piece of the luxury pie without having to mortgage the house. I say they scored big by closing the gap. Do you know how many cars Yugo would have sold if they had put some leather in it with some fake wood trimming, Hyundi (sp) sure got that memo.

Very good topic with good timing, Sick, considering all the fierce debates we've had recently in Cat Chat.:)

Unfortunately, there will never be one single answer to define luxury.

First of all, we have to understand that the word "luxury" can be applied in very many ways, including:
1. a luxury nameplate, e.g. Mercedes-Benz (a brand with a luxury image and great heritage but with a lineup that includes A150 with 1.5L engine, manual seats and minimal amenities)
2. a luxury car, e.g. Phaeton (coming from a brand that's generally not considered luxury)
3. a luxury feature, e.g. leather seats, navigation system...
4. a luxury trait, e.g. a luxurious ride (usually meaning soft and cushy), a luxurious presence/style (formed by items such as a huge and pronounced grille (a la 300C) and chrome decors
5. luxurious ownership experience, e.g. beautiful dealerships, comparable loaner cars, free road-side assistance
6. luxury pricing, e.g. priced so that only people with the top 20% income can afford

So depending on where the focus is placed a car can be considered of both luxury and the total opposite.

Now, the dictionary meaning of the word from dictionary.com:
lux·u·ry ( P )
n. pl. lux·u·ries
1. Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort.
2. Something expensive or hard to obtain.
3. Sumptuous living or surroundings: lives in luxury.

As you see, another major reason we always have a debate is that there are multiple meanings to the word itself. If you go with the meaning #1, then any features such as leather seats, sunroof, cruise-control, power-seats, etc., can be seen as luxury since they are "inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort" for a car, which is supposed to just move people and cargo from point A to point B. If you go with the meaning #2, it is always relative and there is never a clear line between a "luxury" price and a "non-luxury" one (30k? 40k? 50k? 60k? 100k?). If you go with the meaning #3, it'll be very subjective as it will depend totally on how each individual feels about the surroundings when he/she sits inside/experience a car.

So my point is, "luxury" is just too broad a word to be very meaningful when used alone. Instead of trying to define luxury itself, we should try to give more specific details to what luxury we're really talking about in our future discussions. e.g. "The traffic-reporting navigation system is such a novel luxury feature in the 2005 RL, an all-new luxury car with a luxury price, unfortunately coming from a not-quite-luxury brand. I do feel luxury everywhere when I sit inside it. It does not have a luxury presence from the outside, however."

to me, my definition of luxury (on a car) is:

1) comfortable, you don't feel uneasy with the car
2) everything is within reach easy without taking your eyes off the road
3) the driver doesn't need to THINK in order to drive the car
4) pessenger doesn't have the feeling of being "prisoned" inside a car
5) you can sit in the car for 3 hours and not having to change your posture
6) what's happening outside doesn't interfere what's happening inside
7) the car tends to think for you

Originally posted by rominl
to me, my definition of luxury (on a car) is:

1) comfortable, you don't feel uneasy with the car
2) everything is within reach easy without taking your eyes off the road
3) the driver doesn't need to THINK in order to drive the car
4) pessenger doesn't have the feeling of being "prisoned" inside a car
5) you can sit in the car for 3 hours and not having to change your posture
6) what's happening outside doesn't interfere what's happening inside
7) the car tends to think for you

yah. I think being luxury and sporty usually can't co-exist, just compromised. The sportier a car is, the less luxurious it will be. The ES330 is more luxurious than the GS IMO because it's cushier, less sporty (hence softer suspension), and very quiet (the engine is more quiet than GS300/430).

With that said, I think that most BMWs don't qualify for luxury cars in my book because they are sporty cars. When you have firm suspension and strong roadfeel, you can't really call it a comfortable and luxurious car, regardless of how much leather you got.

That's right, luxury is not defined by how much leather you got or how much the car costs. It's about if it's comfortable and relaxing. :thumbup:

Originally posted by GlobeCLK
yah. I think being luxury and sporty usually can't co-exist, just compromised. The sportier a car is, the less luxurious it will be. The ES330 is more luxurious than the GS IMO because it's cushier, less sporty (hence softer suspension), and very quiet (the engine is more quiet than GS300/430).

With that said, I think that most BMWs don't qualify for luxury cars in my book because they are sporty cars. When you have firm suspension and strong roadfeel, you can't really call it a comfortable and luxurious car, regardless of how much leather you got.

That's right, luxury is not defined by how much leather you got or how much the car costs. It's about if it's comfortable and relaxing. :thumbup:

yup, i agree. that's why i always say the gs is a good compromise between luxury and performance. a very very good blend of both, that's why i love the car. the ls430 is a completely luxury car, and serious you can't ask for much handling from it without giving up any comfort. and for example the is300, it's very sporty and performance oriented car, and to be honest, it's nice, but i wouldn't associate it with luxury at all

for bmw, i always call it a driver's car with some luxury in it, specially the 3 and 5 series. i know people with both, and honestly, sitting in the car i don't really feel very comfortable. even being the pessenger i can feel the road as well. it's a drivers car with some luxury wrapping around it

1) Brand. You've got to have the name.
2) Design. Originality, exterior & interior. Accents in all the right places (wood, metallic-look trim), HID lighting, illumination systems.
3) Feel. Everything from how the turn signal stalk feels, to the push of buttons, to the sound of doors/trunks closing.
4) Features. Power door closers, memory systems, SmartKey-like access, power tilt/telescoping w/ memory, electrochromatic mirrors.
5) Service. Everything & anything that happens in the dealership; loaners, washes, parties, holiday cards.

Isn't it amazing how it has become so difficult to determine what a luxury car is? We will always associate certain brands to be luxury, at least for a while.

While it is true that many features found on luxury cars are now found on economy cars of today, that is how it supposed to work. For the most part, it has always been the luxury car that was fit with the latest technology or invention. We can go down the list from ABS, to Airbags, all the way back to power windows or even Air Conditioning. Heck, in the early days having windshield wipers were a luxury feature.

So what makes a luxury car today? While I may not agree with this, it is perception to a large degree. The reason why I say that is many people consider a BMW 325 a luxury car or a Mercedes C240. They come from luxury car brands, but a fully loaded Honda Accord or Toyota Camry can be considered just a luxurious, yet they are not a luxury car.

Personally, I believe a car is a luxury car when the manufacturer builds it to compete in that segment. This is in no way saying that it will succeed, or have a welcomed reception by the public or media, but if they build it for that purpose that is where it should compete. I also feel once you elect to compete in the luxury car segment, you need to keep being innovative. Just like years past when the luxury car got the best mechanicals, or the best features, or the next innovative technology. This needs to be everywhere from the dealership, all the way down to the car. They need to keep reinventing what luxury is. As someone in another post mentioned, this is easier said than done especially today. Acura reinvented the luxury car when they showed Japan could compete, and you didn't have to pay an inflated price for an inferior product. You could pay fair market value and get luxury. Lexus reinvented the segment once again when they showed that Japan can build a class leading car, but you could still charge a little premium if you give the customers this unheard of great service and dealership experience. Luxury car manufacrturers need to keep bringing something new to the table. There will be a time when they will no longer be able to get by on their name alone. Sooner or later consumers will start to learn that a name in itself means nothing if the car doesn't stand on its own merits.

To sum things up. I feel a luxury car is a car built to compete in that segment. There will be successful cars and failures, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a luxury car. Price is also importent. Luxury is something that not everyone can afford, therefore the price needs to reflect that somewhat. This is a double edge sword because I believe you should pay a fair premium for innovation and technology, but all too often luxury cars are over priced for no other reason than name brand recognition. We can later discuss different levels of the luxury car segment, but that also is so grey that it will be difficult to nail down.

I agree with the idea that "luxury" and "sportiness" cannot co-exist..at least at the same time. Probably the closest thing to it are the variable suspension settings like "Normal", "Comfort" and "Sport" , multi-valve shocks, and the "MagnaRide" system in some upscale GM cars. This system varies shock damping from straight-line to cornering conditions...but even HERE, it cannot be firm and soft at the same time....it simply varies.
Part of the problem is that many people today simply don't WANT a softly-sprung car and high-profile tires like yesteryear because of the body roll and understeer. Quick steering response, high-G cornering, short stopping distances, 0-60 times, ....these are the things that, for the most part, are stressed in the automotive press today. Even here at CL the majority of the people seem to want handling rather than ride. ....they apparantly don't mind being pounded over bumps. This glorification of speed and handling has pretty much led to the demise of what I would call luxury cars.....an ultra-smooth ride. For instance, there are almost no production cars left that I know of with 70-series tires or above.....and none with 75's.
65's are now about the tallest I've seen....on cars like the Lincoln Town Car , big Buicks, and the LS430. And even traditional "luxury" cars like these ....and the Cadillac DeVille....have recently been stiffened up a little to try and appeal a little more to the BMW crowd. Part of this is the stereotyped mage......and a false one, I might add.........that a soft ride and plush interior is only for senior citizens. This is similiar to other automotive stereotypes...the idea that Beetle Convertibles, Cabrios, Miatas, and Minis are only for "chicks"; the idea that Corvettes, Vipers, and other high-powered sports cars are only for young "macho" guys; and that minivans are only for soccer moms, and that men shouldn't be driving them. All of these stereotypes are pure nonsense.....but the automotive industry and press have apparantly fell for them. So.....as a result, one of the things we have pretty much lost in recent years is the true soft-riding luxury car.
Perhaps the best "pure" luxury car still out there, believe it or not, is the Lexus ES330. It is perhaps the only car designed today purely for comfort with handling not a factor at all....and it has a true luxury-car interior for an entry-level luxury price.

I will say that "features" do not define a luxury car. Just b/c a few years ago NAV, HID, etc..were first found on Luxury cars don't mean you need that to have a luxury car nor do having that make you a luxury car.

Take an old world crafted car like a Bentley (not the new conti) it may not have nav, HIDs, back-up camera, laser cruise etc.. But it's 100% luxury car while a Sienna with all this and more isn't.

I don't think you can strip away all the amenities from say a LS430 and it'll still be a luxury car. You could for example strip it down to taxi-grade and it'll be a taxi. See MBs in Europe as cop cars and cabs.

So you do need nice stuff. But like has been said it's not the superficial stuff, like leather, it has to be nice leather and nice carpet and nice paint, and nice instruments.

It has to be a combination of features and built quality materials and craftmanship all mixed together in the right design with adequate power and with quality service experience.

I think brand name/service is important. For example let's say VW wanted to take an A8 nut for nut leather wood carpet all the same, but slaps a VW badge on it and drops it in a VW dealership. It's hard for me to buy into that as being a luxury car. It is a luxury car but not 100% beyond all doubt a luxury car.

IMO, luxury = choice. You ought to be able to spec out the car and anything else, from the available options, only the features, options, and colors that you want. Not from the stock, that they tell is luxurious.

Analog: Would you eat caviar because it's expensive or potato chips because you like it. IMO, there is no luxury no matter how nice or expensive if you are not happy with it.

Originally posted by ntran18
IMO, luxury = choice. You ought to be able to spec out the car and anything else, from the available options, only the features, options, and colors that you want. Not from the stock, that they tell is luxurious.

Analog: Would you eat caviar because it's expensive or potato chips because you like it. IMO, there is no luxury no matter how nice or expensive if you are not happy with it.

From this comment along with many others here it really shows that Luxury is subjective.

Originally posted by Milla...
From this comment along with many others here it really shows that Luxury is subjective.

You are absolutely right, Milla. Luxury has a different meaning to each person. There is no absolute definition by today's standards.

And since everyone is waxing philosophical about this topic, you might be interested in picking up a copy of "Trading Up: The New American Luxury" by Michael J. Silverstein and Neil Fiske. It is a very interesting read. The authors talk about how it is not necessarily the wealthy who are purchasing what are traditionally considered "luxury" items these days. Several brands of cars are mentioned. I remember, specifically, that the BMW brand commands a premium due to owner loyalty. (Not my words... just quoting from the book.)

Although many of today's average cars are filled with "luxury features", there's still a big difference from them and a true luxury car like Lexus or Mercedes. I recently had to rent a 2005 Kia Armanti and yes it has many of the features that my 12 year old SC has but can it compare? Not even remotely close. Note that the "luxury" Kia is 12 years newer and costs $25K+ and still can't touch an old Lex. Luxury goes deep with a vehicle. You can feel it as soon as you sit down and drive. I think if you want to truly know what REAL luxury is (at a realistic price) you need to drive a Lexus LS430. You'll quickly realize it goes far beyond the hundreds of features found. You feel like your on cloud 9. Drive and LS, then drive a Hyundai XG350. Do you still think the XG is luxurious the way its meant to be? Of course not. Don't let the cheap leather and fake wood fool you.