Opinions please on the Nikon 8800

[Pearlpower]

Looking to upgrade my camera. Cannot really find a 7 megapixel that I am comfortable with (features, looks,etc..) though the Sony DSC-V3 comes close so I decided to go the 8+ megapixel route. I ruled out digital SLR already for personal preference and what I need the camera for. I am not a professional photographer. More like the casual camera user looking to get some nice pics of the GS and other things in life (such as the upcoming baby(s)). Ruled out the F828 already (several bad reviews concerning image quality and chromatic aberration).

After some serious internet reviewing and personal handling I have narrowed my search to the Nikon 8800 Coolpix camera.

Anyone here have one? Opinions? I have read some good reviews on the unit.

thank you
Lee

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/CP8800/CP88A.HTM

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_...nikon8800.html

[Percy]

How about the Canon Powershot Pro 1? They have a new firmware upgrade to the camera which speeds up the focus and zooming. Review below didn't have the firmware upgrade.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...hot-pro1.shtml

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...non-pro1.shtml

Not surprised about the CA in most of the lenses. You're asking them to do a HUGE range for zooming while trying to retain utmost quality.

Percy

[Pearlpower]

thanks Percy. Well after looking at a few more DSLR cameras I am now considering a Canon 20D or Nikon D70. I based much of my prior opinions on DSLR on the Canon Digital Rebel which I found to feel cheap limited in a few areas.
Looking at abesofmaine.com, Amazon, J&R, and Newegg as possible vendors. Anyone have good experience with anyone else? Good resellerratings.com?

Looking to buy next week.

[Percy]

D70 vs 20D. Go for the 20D...much better imo. Quite clean, even at iso1600!

Percy

Originally Posted by Pearlpower

thanks Percy. Well after looking at a few more DSLR cameras I am now considering a Canon 20D or Nikon D70. I based much of my prior opinions on DSLR on the Canon Digital Rebel which I found to be a want-to-me DSLR (still a good camera with better than point and shoots but limiting in features to justify the price).

Looking at abesofmaine.com, Amazon, J&R, and Newegg as possible vendors. Anyone have good experience with anyone else? Good resellerratings.com?

Looking to buy next week.

[Pearlpower]

Originally Posted by Percy

D70 vs 20D. Go for the 20D...much better imo. Quite clean, even at iso1600!

Percy

I have spent about 9 hours reading the comparisons on both. So far I gather:

Advantage Canon:
Real RAW image. D70 filters it's RAW images regardless if noise reduction is on/off.
6mp vs 8mp: There actually is a difference in higher ISO. Lower ISO is marginal.
Lower noise on 20D. Some claim that this is due to the more aggressive noise reduction on the 20D and that software on either would yeild the same results.
9 point autofocus (7 point on D70) with points in better positions vs the D70
Better low light pictures. Important I as dabble in astrophotography and the camera will be connected to a Meade LX200GPS telescope. BIG advantage to me.
5FPS up to 23 pictures. Means nothing to me as I do not take action shots often and do not care for sports.
Metal construction vs plastic on D70 (same as Digital Rebel)

Advantage Nikon:
D70 has faster flash sync. Standard 1/500 vs the pitiful 1/250 found in the 20D (1/250 has not been used in over a decade in 35mm cameras)
D70 has better automatic flash settings whereas the 20D needs setting adjustments.
D70 has far superior kit lens vs the 20D which everyone is calling a cheap plastic lens . The Canon kit comes with the same lens that the Digital Rebel has.
Lower price. A bit more than $400.00 less vs the 20D. $600.00+ is one decides to get a real lens for the 20D.
Very good pictures comparable to the 20D at lower ISO.
3 FPS with the maximum up to the capacity of the CF or microdrive. Once again not too important to me.
LCD is brighter vs 20D and the D70 has a $20.00 replaceable LCD cover vs the 20D which is permanent.
Folder creation. D70 allows unlimited photos in one folder vs the 20D which allows only 100 in one folder. 100 sounds like a bunch, however keep in mind that these cameras cane take 100 photos within 30 seconds! Especially in burst mode where they take multiple pictures of the same item at different settings automatically and you choose which you prefer.
Menu interface.

anything else I missed?

Most people recommend buying a camera on the lenses as the lens is a keeper whereas the body is always updated. I do not own lenses of either type so this is a mute point with me. The sounds of things make me think the 20D kit lens is a throw away lens so factor in another 400-600 for a real lens. This would add about 200.00 to a 20D body only price over the kit price.

Decisions decisions.........


Lee

[Percy]

Lee,

1/250th of a second has been used in LOTS of pro level cameras for flash sync. Canon EOS 1 series, 1D mark 2, 1n, 1nrs, 1V, 1V-HS, 1Ds, 1Ds mark 2. The only one that had a higher flash sync was the 1D, and that was due to the interline sensor ccd and that they could do some really neat tricks with it. The average low end to mid end camera has flash syncs of 1/60th to 1/125th of a second. 1/250th for the 20D is really quite good!

"Low noise" on the D70. Try this trick. Put the body cap on, set for 30 seconds, highest ISO. You're making a "dark frame". Then try the same thing on the 20D. 20D wins ... HANDS DOWN. With the D70 you'll still get amp glow. 20D turns it off during long term exposure, very important when shooting with the LX200. Are you using the f/6.3 or the f/10 version? I dabble in astrophotography LOTS. Astro Physics 5.1 inch EDT refractor, NJP mount, STV autoguider and various cameras at my disposal, including a ST7ME, ST8XME and every once in a while, a ST10XME. When comparing the digicams versus the SBIG cams, there is no comparison, especially where sensitivity and a/d conversion is concerned. S/N ratio is also much much better in the SBIG lineup, but where the digicams shine is the ability to take much wider field images and the ability to more easily focus on the object in question. Pros to both, and cons to both. Even if the D70 or the 20D were cooled to -25C ambient, the SBIG, due to it's better design (a/d conversion) will completely waste the above mentioned cameras.

The 100 picture/folder is just a grouping thing. If it needs to create another folder, you won't even notice it. All transparent until you load up on the computer.

Lenses. In most regards, I find that the Canon lenses are better overall for my usage. Remember that Nikon still has some lenses that are mechanical in linkage. More problems due to wear and tear, while the Canon is all electrical in nature. less things to wear out. I shoot mostly with very high end lenses (300 2.8L EF, 200 1.8L EF, 85 1.2L EF) and although Nikon is good, they still haven't touched my Canon lenses. Fighting words? Sure...but I'm more than willing to back them up with some head to head comparos. As for the astrophoto aspect, nothing...and I mean NOTHING can touch Astro Physics optics. They make my best Canon lenses look SICK by comparison. Televue, Zeiss, Takahashi, Nikon, Pentax, TMB...all nice in their own aspects of astro stuff, but they won't compare as favorably as the AP when it comes to Strehl, color correction, smoothness of figure, etc.

Best bet is to go to the local camera shop. Try out the dark frame trick. You'll be surprised. Also, put some good glass on the camera bodies, make it a fair comparison. Bring your own CF card so you can download and compare both of them on screen, side by side.

Reason for this...I had the 10D at one time and heard that the D70 was the "latest and greatest" in low noise pictures. Decided to see if the camera would back it up or if it was hype. Long exposure stuff...all hype. 10D and 20D wasted the D70.

But then I'm guessing you shoot mostly terrestrial?

Percy

Originally Posted by Pearlpower

I have spent about 9 hours reading the comparisons on both. So far I gather:

Advantage Canon:
Real RAW image. D70 filters it's RAW images regardless if noise reduction is on/off.
6mp vs 8mp: There actually is a difference in higher ISO. Lower ISO is marginal.
Lower noise on 20D. Some claim that this is due to the more aggressive noise reduction on the 20D and that software on either would yeild the same results.
9 point autofocus (7 point on D70) with points in better positions vs the D70
Better low light pictures. Important I as dabble in astrophotography and the camera will be connected to a Meade LX200GPS telescope. BIG advantage to me.
5FPS up to 23 pictures. Means nothing to me as I do not take action shots often and do not care for sports.
Metal construction vs plastic on D70 (same as Digital Rebel)

Advantage Nikon:
D70 has faster flash sync. Standard 1/500 vs the pitiful 1/250 found in the 20D (1/250 has not been used in over a decade in 35mm cameras)
D70 has better automatic flash settings whereas the 20D needs setting adjustments.
D70 has far superior kit lens vs the 20D which everyone is calling a cheap plastic lens . The Canon kit comes with the same lens that the Digital Rebel has.
Lower price. A bit more than $400.00 less vs the 20D. $600.00+ is one decides to get a real lens for the 20D.
Very good pictures comparable to the 20D at lower ISO.
3 FPS with the maximum up to the capacity of the CF or microdrive. Once again not too important to me.
LCD is brighter vs 20D and the D70 has a $20.00 replaceable LCD cover vs the 20D which is permanent.
Folder creation. D70 allows unlimited photos in one folder vs the 20D which allows only 100 in one folder. 100 sounds like a bunch, however keep in mind that these cameras cane take 100 photos within 30 seconds! Especially in burst mode where they take multiple pictures of the same item at different settings automatically and you choose which you prefer.
Menu interface.

anything else I missed?

Most people recommend buying a camera on the lenses as the lens is a keeper whereas the body is always updated. I do not own lenses of either type so this is a mute point with me. The sounds of things make me think the 20D kit lens is a throw away lens so factor in another 400-600 for a real lens. This would add about 200.00 to a 20D body only price over the kit price.

Decisions decisions.........


Lee

[Pearlpower]

Good information Percy. Thank you. Nice to bump into a fellow stargazer.

No doubt the digital cameras pale in comparison to the SBIG units out there. After-all digital photography started in astronomy. I am sure I will upgrade to one once things get rolling along.
In fact for the money I save by picking up a D70 over a 20D with a real lens I would be that much closer to getting a ST-7XME once I decide (convince the significant other) or pick up a Meade imager to get things started-$299.99 and I would still be ahead.

thanx again
Lee

[Percy]

Lee,

Check out this review. 10D vs SBIG STL11000.

http://panther-observatory.com/Review_STL11000M.htm

Percy

[bitkahuna]

Originally Posted by Pearlpower

Good information Percy. Thank you. Nice to bump into a fellow stargazer.

No doubt the digital cameras pale in comparison to the SBIG units out there. After-all digital photography started in astronomy. I am sure I will upgrade to one once things get rolling along.
In fact for the money I save by picking up a D70 over a 20D with a real lens I would be that much closer to getting a ST-7XME once I decide (convince the significant other) or pick up a Meade imager to get things started-$299.99 and I would still be ahead.

thanx again
Lee

The 20D beats the D70 in every comparison, it's a no brainer if you want the best camera. If you want to save a few hundred, just get a Canon Pro1 or G6.

While you might not think you care about 5FPS for sports, occasionally you can fire a burst even with a group shot of stationary people because you then have a better chance of getting a good shot. Also, the 20D is ready to go INSTANTLY when you turn it on, which is great. Also, the battery lasts for 500 or more shots. It goes on and on.

The down side to DSLRs though in general is they're just more work. You've GOT to learn how the work, how to do post processing because the shots are going to look softer than any point and shoot.

Anyway, that's my $0.02. The D70 is a very nice camera too, but the 20D is considerably better.

[Pearlpower]

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

The 20D beats the D70 in every comparison, it's a no brainer if you want the best camera. If you want to save a few hundred, just get a Canon Pro1 or G6.

While you might not think you care about 5FPS for sports, occasionally you can fire a burst even with a group shot of stationary people because you then have a better chance of getting a good shot. Also, the 20D is ready to go INSTANTLY when you turn it on, which is great. Also, the battery lasts for 500 or more shots. It goes on and on.

The down side to DSLRs though in general is they're just more work. You've GOT to learn how the work, how to do post processing because the shots are going to look softer than any point and shoot.

Anyway, that's my $0.02. The D70 is a very nice camera too, but the 20D is considerably better.

Hi Paul
Thanks for your input and good to hear from you. This is sounding more like a Lexus vs BMW issue.
The G6 and ProShot is not even to be considered. I cannot stand either of those for my own reasons. Good cameras I'm sure, but not for me. Especially the G6. Just not my thing.

The 20D is a better camera-no doubt though it does seem to fall short in a few areas compared to the D70 and others. The D70 is marketed against the Digital Rebel though it has BEATEN the 20D in at least two comparisons that I have come across. I can find the links if your interested.

Interesting about the 500 photos on a single battery you mention as one of the down sides of this camera I came across was the poor battery life. Did you upgrade the battery? Also did you get the kit and if so how is the kit lens that comes with it? It is as bad as what I have been reading?

I am going to grab a CF and run over the camera shop again and see for myself. See how each feels in my hand and operates to my taste.

I am leaning towards the 20D and can always return it and get the D70 later if I choose to.

I will let you know which I go with.

I am not one to have a allegiance to a brand name. Just what works for me and my taste.

Lee

[Pearlpower]

Dell has the Digital Rebel for $704.00 shipped! Hmmm. not a bad deal. I went to Best Buy (mistake I know). They had the D70 and DR but no 20D. I liked how the DR felt in my hand compared to the D70. I also did not care for how the side cover is difficult to remove on the D70 unless you have some longer than normal fingernails. Other than that they had no lens so I could not take any pics. I was only able to play with the menus.
I will try CC or Frys this week.

[bitkahuna]

Originally Posted by Pearlpower

This is sounding more like a Lexus vs BMW issue.

Yes, and like Lexus vs. BMW where Lexus people are generally willing to see good things in BMWs but not the other way around, so it is with Canon vs. Nikon, with Nikon bigots being incredibly narrow minded. I've nothing bad to say about the D70 - it's an excellent camera. You would love it.

The 20D is a better camera-no doubt though it does seem to fall short in a few areas compared to the D70 and others. The D70 is marketed against the Digital Rebel though it has BEATEN the 20D in at least two comparisons that I have come across. I can find the links if your interested.

Sure, I'd be interested in the links. Over the 20D the D70 has a built in light meter, is less expensive, some people prefer the user interface and controls (although that's kinda subjective), has a 50 ISO setting I believe (not that I'd use it), and I can't think of much other advantages over the 20D.

Interesting about the 500 photos on a single battery you mention as one of the down sides of this camera I came across was the poor battery life. Did you upgrade the battery?

I'm using the included battery. Not sure who could possibly and validly criticize battery life unless they're a pro who shoots thousands of pictures a day (and few pros even do).

Also did you get the kit and if so how is the kit lens that comes with it? It is as bad as what I have been reading?

I've seen many stunning pictures taken with the 18-55 kit lens, so it's not bad at all. Will it come close to a $700 17-40 L lens? No. But that doesn't mean it's bad. You get what you pay for pretty much with lenses. I got the 17-85 lens with image stabilization for $600 (I think you can get the body and this lens in a kit for about $1900 or so). I initially thought it was soft, but I'm learning how to use it better now. The image stabilization (IS) really works. It's incredible. But are there shots that won't be as good as the 24-70 2.8L glass I'd rather have? Yes. Again, you get what you pay for.

I am not one to have a allegiance to a brand name. Just what works for me and my taste.

Me either. I would have bought the D70 had the 20D not shown up.

[bitkahuna]

Check out this guy's pics taken with the kit 18-55 lens:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/param/2759600/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/param/2759589/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/param/