Why are people on here such Honda-bashers? Acura-bashing I can actually somewhat understand. To some, many, or even most of you, FWD and no V8 and no flagship sedan = not worthy of luxury status. I won't get into Acura, since it's pretty much a different topic, and one that's been debated heavily (and hotly) here many times. But what I don't understand is why all the animosity towards Honda and all they do.

Is it because "ricers" have tended to use Civics? (I think the term "ricer" is a very racist term, BTW, along the same lines as "Jap car" or "rice burner.") That's the only thing I can think of, other than their affiliation with Acura, which many of you see as a marque unworthy of mention in the same breath as Lexus.

It seems like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan folk can be just as silly as Ford, Chevy, and Dodge folk when it comes to car rivalries, etc. But unless you have stock in any of the companies, or unless your last name is Toyota (...), then what's the dilly-o? Many here are into modding and sporty rides, even though to most in the car world, a "sporty Lexus" is a complete and absolute oxymoron. You all are intelligent enough to see that it's not always the case. Many also appreciate that Lexuses are reliable. But then again, Hondas are very reliable vehicles as well. Maybe not topping the charts most every year like Toyota, but surely the reliability is good enough. So if you'll agree with me that Hondas are quite reliable and yet generally sportier than Toyotas (maybe not the Supra...), wouldn't it make sense that, given the types of people you are (intelligent and interested in reliable, sporty, luxurious Japanese cars), you'd have an interest and appreciation for Hondas?

I have to say, I do like the community here. I like chatting about cars and discussing the relative merits and demerits of many marques and the models they offer, but CL has a pretty bad reputation among other forums I frequent for being VERY narrow-minded. It saddens me to see that, especially since there's no point to making enemies (e-enemies, but enemies nonetheless) over things to which we have no real affiliation other than a temporal ownership.

In any case, I'm interested in hearing why Honda is so hated around here. Is no one a Honda fan? I mean, really? But please, let's keep the conversation civil. :thumbup:

Good question. I kinda want to know also. I got anal raped when I wrote a somewhat positive review about my time behind the wheel of a TL not to long ago. I usually give respect where respect is due.

You last paragraph is pretty similar to the topic that I started about what others think about CL. Arrogant, god gilfts to the world, narrowminded.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147835

Fair point Inc! :cool: :thumbup: I agree with you.

umm, i don't know about others (maybe coz' i don't have much feeling), but i don't think i hate hondas. at least i love the s2k, and i think the accord is a solid value family car

to be honest, i don't see it being too different from toyota myself. they are both reliable and solid, and will go 200k miles without any major problems. toyota is more comfort with a bit better built, and honda is more sporty and driver feel. that's how i feel about the brands.

the s2k of course is different. to me it's almost the same level as the nsx, that's how good i think the car is. for a 4 banger pushing over 100hp per liter, and superb handling for a convertible, what else can i say?

for civic ricers, honestly i guess that's not only CL, if that's what you talking about. i think it's a fact that there are indeed a lot of civic ricers around town everywhere, more than any others. so that's an image they build for themselves, i don't think anyone is trying to put a disguise on them :)

I like Hondas. I think Honda-badged cars offer better and more features than Acura-badged cars.

I can honestly say that my Honda had less "little flaws" than my IS and RX have/had; one being 2 leaky headlights on my RX. My CD player did die in my Prelude (once) and my IS (twice). Still keeping my fingers crossed on the RX.

I don't think too highly of Acuras; too many little details to get into, but I'd definitely buy another Honda.

The local Honda dealership also has equal, if not higher service standards than my Lexus dealer has... :confused:

Honda is a company that makes excellent vehicles (and some of the best manual shifters in the buisness) but, like Toyota, is too hush-hush about future products and does not adequately explain why they make the decisions they do, at least to the non-auto media. Honda company reps need to learn to answer questions more promptly, thoroughly, and without reservations or excuses. I have gotten into some heated arguements with them more than once about this hush-hush buisness. Their dealerships have also had a reputation in the past for being arrogant, but fortunately that is changing.

OK so I have an opinion. Deal with it? :confused:

I'm guessing my post criticizing the Ridgeline might have prompted you to start yet another irrevelvant and redundant thread here that will end up being locked, just like virtually every other Honda/Acura thread that has popped up here as of late. We could have had an argument via PM instead.

Nothing new is going to be discussed. You know who we are, and you know our opinions already. Try the search button in case you forgot. :rolleyes:

Guess what? I've been a member on Honda-Acura Net for years. I don't go over there praising Toyota and Lexus, and they bash to those brands constantly. It's a losing battle. Why do you expect CL to be any different? A number of us are hard-core Toyota/Lexus enthusiasts above all other brands and we can easily discount Honda and Acura if we so choose (and we do).

Furthermore, I don't go around starting threads about why I have little to no respect for Honda or Acura. It's always the minority of Honda/Acura enthusiasts or owners/previous owners of the cars that bring this up time and time again, seemingly trying to get a rise of out us "bashers."

In fact, and this rather disgusts me, there are several members here who only participate in discussion to argue about Honda/Acura or Infiniti. It's like a hit-and-run with them. You are not of those people, but the members I'm talking about do contribute to the negative atmosphere far more than people like myself or Mike (1Sick).

Like I said, there is no reason to have any more general discussion like this about Honda/Acura. Such discussions have a proven track record, and have been beaten to death. In fact, even I'm getting tired of defending Toyota/Lexus in the face of this seemingly relentless onslaught.

We've (the die-hard Toyota/Lexus fans) explained ourselves more than once regarding this topin in general, and in specific terms (discussion about particular models). I doubt any of us are going to want to continue doing so for much longer.

It's really time to let go.

Is no one a Honda fan? I mean, really? But please, let's keep the conversation civil. :thumbup:
Before I bought my Lexus & Infiniti, all the cars I ' ve personally owned are all Honda's & Acura's (Prelude, Accord, TL, CL-S) & I have an almost perfect reliability record with their cars, I still have great respect for their products. Their S2000 & NSX are among my all-time favoraite cars, & if they come up with anything that exites me in the future, I'll have no hesitation buying one.

Ricers don't bother me, I may not like them, but they can do anything they like with their cars as long as that makes them happy. :)

Before I bought my Lexus & Infiniti, all the cars I ' ve personally owned are all Honda's & Acura's .......
:agree: before i got my lexus, i owned a few hondas.. civic, del sol, integra.. as for family members i would guess we had most of the honda lineup.. hondas are great cars.

I regularly visit Acura/Lexus/Infiniti forums, and in each forum, a certain amount of "bashing" of the other company cars goes on. Probably to be expected.

That said, Lexus forums do tend to have an "it's a Lexus, so it's gonna be better" attitude; probably because Lexus is clearly above Infiniti and Acura as a marque. On the Acura forums, people always trump value, and on Infiniti forums, people call Lexuses grandma cars.

Don't even start on Bimmer forums... I don't even go in there anymore.

BTW, "ricers" is offensive, just as "watermelon people".

i have an ACURA RSX, i bought it cz i loved it.

I have respect for Honda. I have one.

To tell you the truth, I like Hondas more than Toyotas.
I would take a Civic over a Corolla anyday.
Prelude over a Celica
Accord over the Camry (I had a Camry)
Accord Coupe over the Solara any day.
CR-V over the RAV4 anyday.

I don't know, I find Hondas more appealing to me. Not sure why. I guess personal preference.

:agree:

I guess those that bash honda's just have a louder voice.

:agree:

I guess those that bash honda's just have a louder voice.

Well, like I said, I don't bash Hondas themselves....they are excellent vehicles and rank among the best available for the money. But some of the people who MARKET them are clearly a bunch of A - - holes. If that offends some people on the forums here.....sorry, but I have to call it like I see it.
Also note that Honda is the ONLY Japanese firm selling in the American market to still offer a standard factory warranty of only 3 years / 36,000 miles bumper-to-bumper AND powertrain BOTH.

ALL of the other Japanese nameplates here......Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Mazda, Lexus, Infiniti, Suzuki, Isuzu, and Mitsubishi.....even Honda's own corporate brother Acura...offer better warranties either time or mileage-wise.

:agree:

I guess those that bash hondas just have a louder voice.


well said...

The problem is Honda owners mistake FACTS and stuff they don't want to hear as BASHING. Period. While we don't cry over spilled milk (the ES 250 did not sell well, 1st gen GS 300 flop, controversial SC 430/ES 330 styling, LS 400/430 Benz styling cues, no AMG/M fighters and the other Lexus flops) if you tell a Honda owner that they DID indeed have a tranny recall, its called bashing :egads: . I noticed, Honda owners can call a ES 330 nothing but a Camry with wood, when the ones making the comments are then driving Euro Accords and American Accords with wood. But when u call them out, its bashing. :egads: I noticed, when we DO give Hondas props, the S2000, the NSX, the TL sells very well, the RL is a huge improvement over the last one, etc etc (all the posittive comments we make about the products) its overlooked and the Honda owners basically don't see them. As soon as someone says a fact "the TL doesn't have real wood", the Element has cheap, ugly, uncolored bumpers, the Ridgeline is not a true truck, its bashing. :egads:

If you go to the Honda/Acura forums, there are a couple educated people but for the most part, its a bunch of kids or a bunch of people who are just Honda fans and BASH all other brands as well. Don't make me go over and link the thousands of bashing threads/comments/posts I've seen. Its WORSE on other boards. Believe me.

Then for those that drive on the roads, it seems many agree here, Honda owners, are some of the worst. I didn't even chime in on the "bad driver thread". In my experience, its not even really the modded cars. Its the damn stock Hondas. Many of them drive like madmen on the roads. If you talk to people in person, they'll say the same thing. What the hell are these guys problems? One of my good friends, drives a SUPER STOCK, 96 Accord LX sedan. He is THE WORST driver I have ever ridden with. I will not ride with him anymore. Cutting lanes, no signal, cutting people over, driving his 125hp Accord like its a damn Ferrari.

The fact is no one hates Honda, no one hates Acura. The fact is also, we are not overly impressed with their products so don't expect us to think they are the "Holy Grail" like the people on Honda/Acura forums do. The fact is, the bottom line is, Honda is now 3rd in market share in Japan (Nissan just passed them), Toyota owns over 40% of the market share there. The fact is, Toyota is about to become the #1 car maker in the world in the next 10 years, Honda is taking a page out of Toyotas book now. More SUVs and Trucks, More sedans, no more sports/sporty cars.

I would admit before, the Honda/Acura threads did turn ugly. For one, you have people on a LEXUS forum, trying to tell LEXUS owners, that their way is better or we are wrong. Add that someone links the thread and people with the brain cells of a frog turd, join here, add no value to the thread, and get banned. They they cry on their forums. Recently, EVERYONE must admit, the threads have gotten much better. They have stayed opened. Things have changed.

If you see us for what we were, is that therefore, what we are?

Again, this is a case of the pot caling the kettle black..

the RL is a huge improvement over the last one, ..

You're probably correct that the majority of CL members would prefer the new car but there are some who prefer the softer ride of the older one. We had a thread just this morning about that.....Matters, a new CL member......asking about the older car as a purchase.

The fact is no one hates Honda, no one hates Acura. The fact is also, we are not overly impressed with their products so don't expect us to think they are the "Holy Grail" like the people on Honda/Acura forums do. The fact is, the bottom line is, Honda is now 3rd in market share in Japan (Nissan just passed them), Toyota owns over 40% of the market share there. The fact is, Toyota is about to become the #1 car maker in the world in the next 10 years, Honda is taking a page out of Toyotas book now. More SUVs and Trucks, More sedans, no more sports/sporty cars.


Well said. :agreed:

:agree:

I guess those that bash honda's just have a louder voice.

Could it be that we don't have a louder voice but, rather, a more articulate and well-documented one?

You can argue with fact and examples, and Mike and I provide plenty of those to back up/make our claims.

Or maybe it's that Mike and I have such genius that what we have said has become deeply engrained in the minds of Honda/Acura lovers and it eats away at them constantly, leaving them in a state of denial and taking cheap/trivial shots at Toyota and Lexus? :p ;) :D

The fact is also, we are not overly impressed with their products so don't expect us to think they are the "Holy Grail" like the people on Honda/Acura forums do.

Sick,

Actually the 'we' really should be 'I' in the statement above... Some other folks on ClubLexus have a slightly different (or less strong) opinion than you do and that's OK ;).

BUT the counterpoint you make is fair. Folks sometimes need to be reminded that this IS a Lexus forum not an Acura or Honda forum (or any other brand). You've got to expect some Lexus bias here, just like you'd see that bias towards the native maker of the other forums.

My family has had great experiences with Honda / Acura. Brothers both drive Accords, sister had a Civic for years when they first started turning around (think 82-ish). My girlfriend had an NSX until recently. No problems with any of them, all fine, reliable cars. BUT I don't often post about them here... if I want to post about the NSX, I do it over on NSXPrime.

If you haven't noticed, on CL we take a pretty hard line on true 'bashing' and often close threads when they get to that point. Calmly stated opinion is certainly OK and (perceived) factual information can be debated and/or disagreed upon. What some consider FACTs may actually be personal opinion or heresay. It's up to the person disagreeing to professionally provide the information that disputes them and not take personal offense at the disagreement with his/her position. Or simply agree to disagree.

Whoa whoa whoa, who said ricer is a racist term? Please share some of you experiences PLEASE! I call people ricers who I deem ignorant by adding modifications to an extent that they dont do what they are intended to do.

Sick,

Actually the 'we' really should be 'I' in the statement above... Some other folks on ClubLexus have a slightly different (or less strong) opinion than you do and that's OK ;).

BUT the counterpoint you make is fair. Folks sometimes need to be reminded that this IS a Lexus forum not an Acura or Honda forum (or any other brand). You've got to expect some Lexus bias here, just like you'd see that bias towards the native maker of the other forums.

My family has had great experiences with Honda / Acura. Brothers both drive Accords, sister had a Civic for years when they first started turning around (think 82-ish). My girlfriend had an NSX until recently. No problems with any of them, all fine, reliable cars. BUT I don't often post about them here... if I want to post about the NSX, I do it over on NSXPrime.

If you haven't noticed, on CL we take a pretty hard line on true 'bashing' and often close threads when they get to that point. Calmly stated opinion is certainly OK and (perceived) factual information can be debated and/or disagreed upon. What some consider FACTs may actually be personal opinion or heresay. It's up to the person disagreeing to professionally provide the information that disputes them and not take personal offense at the disagreement with his/her position. Or simply agree to disagree.


Agreed 100%

IBTW, "ricers" is offensive, just as "watermelon people".

Come on quit playing you made that up 'watermelon people"???? :D

i still love my RSX but i dont know if honda/acura are reliable cars.

the check engine light was constaltly on and flashing until the whole motor blown up at 26K miles.

i guess i am one the few unluckly one in the pool.

but i still love my rsx tho.

close up picture

acura replaced with another brand new motor for me.

We have both Lexus and Acura in our garage so no bias against Honda Motors here. :) ClubLexus has 30k+ registered members and who knows how many other readers. If you look back at all the posts that had negative comments on Hondas, you will find the number posters against Honda to be such a tiny fraction of CL. To ask that

Why are people on here such Honda-bashers?

is a way over generalization of the CL community.

Like many others said, this is a Lexus forum and you will find some bias here. Most come here to talk about our cars (Lexus) and maybe a bit on cars and life in general. Many won't necessarily go and defend Hondas in those heated discussions but that does not mean these same members think badly of Hondas.

Here's my opinion. I don't think most of the bashing happens until we start talking about modded Hondas.

The majority of the people on these auto forums are really in to modding their cars. Over here on CL, high quality, subtle mods are the emphasis and the aluminum wings, over weight gaudy wheels and unpainted body kits on most of the modded Honda's are not appealing and are just down right offensive to the eyes to most of us. If someone showed us a pic of a Civic tastefully modded with a quality PAINTED (lime green belongs on a lime, not a car) body kit, some nice HRE's or Iforged wheels and some good quality power mods, most of us would be willing to give it props.

Then for those that drive on the roads, it seems many agree here, Honda owners, are some of the worst. I didn't even chime in on the "bad driver thread". In my experience, its not even really the modded cars. Its the damn stock Hondas. Many of them drive like madmen on the roads. If you talk to people in person, they'll say the same thing. What the hell are these guys problems? One of my good friends, drives a SUPER STOCK, 96 Accord LX sedan. He is THE WORST driver I have ever ridden with. I will not ride with him anymore. Cutting lanes, no signal, cutting people over, driving his 125hp Accord like its a damn Ferrari.
That's just your opinion. The reason why Honda drivers seem to be some of the worst is probably because there are so many Hondas on the road that the probability of bad drivers being Honda drivers are much higher.

I bet if ever other car on the road was a Datsun 240Z, then I bet you'll have the same comment saying "Then for those that drive on the roads, it seems many agree here, 240Z owners, are some of the worst......In my experience, its not even really the modded cars. Its the damn stock 240Z. Many of them drive like madmen on the roads."
Why? Because there are a lot of them around, that the likelyhood of bad drivers owning one is much greater.

About your friend. This has NOTHING to do with Honda. It's his style of driving. The only reason why you mentioned him was because he owns a Honda. What if he buys a Bentley? It has nothing to do with the cars.

Do you agree?

i still love my RSX but i dont know if honda/acura are reliable cars.

the check engine light was constaltly on and flashing until the whole motor blown up at 26K miles.

i guess i am one the few unluckly one in the pool.

but i still love my rsx tho.

I won't deny anyone that has a bad experience with Honda/Acura. The same can be said about Lexus as well. Out of the 5 Acura cars that I have owned or still own, none gave a check engine light ever. None had an 02 sensor go bad. Of the two Lexus cars that I own right now, both have given check engine lights and 1 is now showing an 02 sensor code. 1 is a 93 SC400 and the other is an 04 RX330. Either way, its too bad your RSX has had trouble. My brother in law is about to trade in his 2001 (I think it is an 01) RSX-S probably for a TSX at the end of this month. The car was a blast to drive :)

While Honda/Acura and some of the US branded Lexus cars are among my favorite and ones that I would be likely to buy, honestly, if BMW had better reliability I would own BMW's again. I only had 1 BMW and I liked the driving feel and the over all experience but I hated its reliability. It was just too much money to upkeep the little anoying things that went wrong and that was money I rather spend on modifications instead.

In any case, I'm interested in hearing why Honda is so hated around here. Is no one a Honda fan? I mean, really? But please, let's keep the conversation civil. :thumbup:

When I think of Honda, I think of 12 second Integras and stock, reliable, fuel efficient Civics... that's it. When I think of Toyota, I think of Land Cruiser, 4Runner, Supra, Corolla, Toyota trucks used in war-stricken countries, and the AE86 drift craze. I personally am not a fan Honda because I'm not impressed about Honda trucks or SUV's and although Honda makes very nice 4 cylinder motors, they're mostly on fwd cars. The S2000 is a nice car, no doubt about that but I wouldn't call myself a Honda fan just because I happen to like that one Honda. Import racers are Honda fans and car enthusiasts are Toyota fans. As for a Lexus sports car being an oxymoron, Lexus is Toyota and Acura is Honda so therefore if an IS300 is not a proper sports car, then the Acura RL is not a proper luxury car making Acura a poser luxury automobile. So if Honda can't make a luxury car, what's there to like about it besides hitting vtec reliably?

i dont like honda for a few reasons

they arent luxurious, they arent my kind of car, and that logo??? who designed that...


seriosuly, i just dont liek them. has nothing to do with civics belonging to the tuner cround. i see thousands more stock civic than ones with melon shooters and neons.

i just dont liek them, their designs dont appeal to me.

but i will give them the following 3 cudos:

They run forever...and then some. i dont think you can kill em.
they get great gas mileage, even their big ones.
they have some innovative ideas.


that is all.

IMO there is a huge difference in desirability between a Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus.

The only car that i ever really liked from Honda/Acura was the Legend - thats it. (The NSX is desirable also but thats more like an exotic dream car thats not very realistic.) None of their other cars are that special or have made any type of significant impact on the auto industry.

Toyota/Lexus on the other hand has created cars that are extremely desirable and have had a significant impact on changing the auto industry. Some of their cars that I find personally desirable (and viewed by many as timeless) are Supra, MR2, SC, 1ST &2ND gen GS, LS.
The Lexus division had a huge impact on the auto industry. Land Cruiser/ LX470 are considered some of the greatest SUVs of all time. RX created the crossover SUV and continues to be the class leader. Prius is the most important and successful hybrid car so far.

And there are many more great things that Toyota/Lexus have done. Honda/Acura make VERY good cars but Toyota/Lexus have made some of the world's BEST cars and SUVs, and thats the difference. :)

I regularly visit Acura/Lexus/Infiniti forums, and in each forum, a certain amount of "bashing" of the other company cars goes on. Probably to be expected.

That said, Lexus forums do tend to have an "it's a Lexus, so it's gonna be better" attitude; probably because Lexus is clearly above Infiniti and Acura as a marque. On the Acura forums, people always trump value, and on Infiniti forums, people call Lexuses grandma cars.

Don't even start on Bimmer forums... I don't even go in there anymore.

BTW, "ricers" is offensive, just as "watermelon people".
First, what's a watermelon person?

On to the subject. I also believe that Honda's are nice and reliable cars. To some people, they are even upscale. That's very debatable but everyone can agree they are mostly reliable and have a high resale value. In fact, I believe higher than Toyota. Even if that's not true today it was not long ago. SOme I really like. The s2000 looks great and has a lot of pep. Always loved the prelude. I was locked in a battle trying to decide between a prelude and my platinumsc 4 years ago. I would definitely drive an accord. Can't go wrong with those cars. If some people don't like them, that's okay. It's their right. Everyone can't like everything. This site is here for opinions. As long as someone doesn't attack another personally, everything is free game. We also don't have to read a thread that is about something we don't agree on. One thing I can't accept...spinners on cars. I don't know why. I try to be open minded but that thing just gets me. Everything else....I deal with it. Even a Hyundai (sp) can look good if modded well.

That's just your opinion. The reason why Honda drivers seem to be some of the worst is probably because there are so many Hondas on the road that the probability of bad drivers being Honda drivers are much higher.

I bet if ever other car on the road was a Datsun 240Z, then I bet you'll have the same comment saying "Then for those that drive on the roads, it seems many agree here, 240Z owners, are some of the worst......In my experience, its not even really the modded cars. Its the damn stock 240Z. Many of them drive like madmen on the roads."
Why? Because there are a lot of them around, that the likelyhood of bad drivers owning one is much greater.

About your friend. This has NOTHING to do with Honda. It's his style of driving. The only reason why you mentioned him was because he owns a Honda. What if he buys a Bentley? It has nothing to do with the cars.

Do you agree?

So out of everything I wrote, that is all you saw? Of course 1 guy doesn't mean all Honda owners are awful drivers and I never stated that.

I like Hondas! We used to own a Acura Vigor and it was a really fun car to drive! There is NOTHING wrong with Hondas.