http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=aHQTzFpN2hdo&refer=asia

Toyota Moves Up Camry Release, Plans Hybrid Model, Analysts Say

May 12 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp., the world's second- largest automaker, is speeding the release of its next Camry sedan by at least six months, aiming to keep it the best-selling U.S. car, three industry analysts familiar with the company's plans said.

The 2007 Camry should arrive at dealers as early as February 2006, said Jim Hall, an analyst with AutoPacific Inc., basing his comments on discussions with Toyota. That would bring the new model to market 4 1/2 years after the current edition's release. Toyota has redesigned the Camry every five years since its 1983 debut and put it on sale around early September each time.

``Shortening the product cycle is one of the ways we can invest in having a more-desirable product,'' said Jim Press, Toyota's chief operating officer in the U.S., in an interview yesterday. Press declined to comment on the Camry directly. ``One of our philosophies is to change a car before it gets old.''

The Camry has battled Honda's Accord to remain the best- selling car in the U.S. in seven of the past eight years. The sedan, which Press called Toyota's ``money car,'' contributed 21 percent of the 2.06 million autos Toyota sold in the U.S. in 2004.

The Camry will also be the first U.S.-built Toyota gasoline- electric hybrid, according to Hall and two other analysts: Joe Langley, of CSM Worldwide Inc. in Farmington Hills, Michigan and Catherine Madden, who forecasts auto production plans for Global Insight Inc. in Lexington, Massachusetts. The analysts based their information on discussions with Toyota and suppliers to the Georgetown, Kentucky, plant that builds the car.

Toyota has said it will eventually offer hybrid drives in all its top-selling models, wants to build on the lead it holds in hybrid sales of Prius cars and add a direct competitor to Honda Motor Co.'s gasoline-electric Accord that went on sale in 2004, Hall said. ``There's some competitive pressure to get a hybrid Camry into the market soon,'' said Hall, who is based in Southfield, Michigan.

``Camry is a natural next step, but we haven't made any decisions,'' on selling a hybrid version, said John Hanson, a spokesman for Toyota's U.S. sales unit in Torrance, California. Toyota is based in Toyota City, Japan.

hope that means the new ES will follow along also

Technically they have it worked out... if they can just recycle the RX hybrid drivetrain =D but it's for the next gen Camry... which probably means that the next gen ES will get the hybrid drivetrain since we'll be seeing the same RX for the 2.5 Gen (07-08).

I can't wait for a hybrid Sequoia :thumbup:

I can't wait for a hybrid Sequoia :thumbup:


i dont really tihnk hybrid sequioa would make much sense. hybrid for power? fuel economy? dunno. but i would LOVE to see hybrid supra :D

hope that means the new ES will follow along also

It should mean that exactly! :cool: I'm guessing we should start seeing 'spy shots' of the next gen Camry at the latest the fall. :D :thumbup:

i dont really tihnk hybrid sequioa would make much sense. hybrid for power? fuel economy? dunno. . .
Actually I think it does, for both power & better fuel economy.

hope that means the new ES will follow along also
In the past the ES always debuted 1 or 2 months before the Camry.

The early debut of the new model is probably Toyota's eagerness to have a hybrid model w/ the new bodystyle. Sounds like good marketing strategy to me. :thumbup:

Anew bodystyle already? Wow, the current one is still flying off dealer lots The Accord needs a re-do, if anyone.

Camry+hybrid= even more sales. The Accord Hybrid sells I think 2,500 to 3,000 a month.

Nissan has licensed the hybrid technology from Toyota & will offer a hybrid Altima next year too, maybe Toyota wants to introduce the Camry hybrid ahead of the Altima hybrid too ? I heard Nissan is not going to get the latest version of the technology though :dunno:

February 2006!! That means the ES350 is arriving then as well, just a few months after the new IS goes on sale.

The new Camry if following the tradition will definitely share the same 280hp 3.5L V6 that the Avalon and the ES350 have, which means the hybrid Camry, based on the same V6, will have more power than the 278hp 3.3L V6-based hybrid Highlander/RX400h but probably tuned lower than the GS450h for better fuel economy. And since the GS450h will have far more than 300hp and the Avalon has 280hp, I'd say that this hybrid Camry will have about 300hp if not a bit more.

But then again if the hybrid Camry does have 300hp then the issues naturally associated with high-powered FWD cars will need to be addresssed.

You should calm down with your speculation. ;)

You should calm down with your speculation. ;)Again, I don't see anything wrong with my speculations. At least they are reasonable and nothing out of line (i.e. based on the facts we already know), don't you think?

Reasonable yes, but there are people that would read what you posted as it were true facts. And unfortunately, there is an audience out there that believes in everything they are reading. Unless it's information furnished from the definitive source, it's all speculation.

Reasonable yes, but there are people that would read what you posted as it were true facts. And unfortunately, there is an audience out there that believes in everything they are reading. Unless it's information furnished from the definitive source, it's all speculation.

W/O speculation based on facts forums wouldn't be as fun! It's almost like those freaks that write those 'fan fictions' about whatever topic it's on... but I do believe that Toyota does have people scouring the internet looking for opinions and then analyzing the data w/ relevant market data and see if it would work. :thumbup:

It's always fun to hear about possible products or ideas until it gets ridiculous... but it's funny, because you're right. A lot of people do take what they read as cold hard fact.

Here's an example of an April fools joke I used (I think I've shown this example in another post) but it's hilarious because I made the April Fool's part in tiny fine print.

[Link]: http://www.solaraguy.org/viewtopic.php?t=16090

As for the hybrid sequoia idea... i was joking =P but it would be nice (I'd never own a Sequoia... too big for me) to see it get its mpg higher than the -teens

W/O speculation based on facts forums wouldn't be as fun! It's almost like those freaks that write those 'fan fictions' about whatever topic it's on...
:agree: :agreed: as long as you don't take them too seriously.
but I do believe that Toyota does have people scouring the internet looking for opinions and then analyzing the data w/ relevant market data and see if it would work. :thumbup:
I hope they do. The internet may not be representative of the overall car market, but they need to listen to as much ideas & feedback as they can get.

Reasonable yes, but there are people that would read what you posted as it were true facts. And unfortunately, there is an audience out there that believes in everything they are reading. Unless it's information furnished from the definitive source, it's all speculation.The last time I checked this is still a Car Chat forum, not a corporate newsroom. People come here to chat and discuss about the past, the present and the future of cars. Speculations are simply a part of it. Please get over it.:)

The Camry hybrid...that would definitely help make Toyota's expansive offerings of HSD cars available. Especially with being the best selling car in America and the Hybrid popularity increasing...we can only wonder if this new hybrid offering will go on an economical sense or performance sense. It's evident the Hybrid offerings for Lexus are aimed at performance.

People come here to chat and discuss about the past, the present and the future of cars. Speculations are simply a part of it. Please get over it.:)

You are right, but you tend to project your ideas as if they were going ot happen. Please do keep in mind there are people from Lexus HQ that come here everyday. Speculation is always going to be a part of car discussions, but please don't make it sound like you really know what's fact or what's going to be...unless you are a TMS or Lexus employee. Afterall, this whole discussion is based of a 3rd party source that consulted w/industry "analysts". :)

Anew bodystyle already? Wow, the current one is still flying off dealer lots The Accord needs a re-do, if anyone.

Camry+hybrid= even more sales. The Accord Hybrid sells I think 2,500 to 3,000 a month.

Well it is going into it's 5th model year when the 2006's hit the lots. ;) Toyota seems to want to be a step or two ahead of the rest. :thumbup:

You are right, but you tend to project your ideas as if they were going ot happen. Please do keep in mind there are people from Lexus HQ that come here everyday. Speculation is always going to be a part of car discussions, but please don't make it sound like you really know what's fact or what's going to be...unless you are a TMS or Lexus employee. Afterall, this whole discussion is based of a 3rd party source that consulted w/industry "analysts". :)Notice how many if's and probably's and means' I've used in every sentence of my previous post. How anyone can mistake my post as anything more than my very own personal opinion is beyond me. If anything, I've always deliberately made my speculations sound like speculations in any of my speculating posts by first quoting my sources and then using speculative terms including, but not limited to, "if", "probably", "means", "should", "hence", "so", "I think", "I'd say", and so on, to logically deduce my conclusions.

This thread is a speculative thread from the very beginning and those who have responded are all speculating by using the same set of speculating terms. I don't think I was making my post sound any more official and definitive than any others.

Everybody is here just to discuss about what this report/analysis of a hybrid Camry implies, nothing more, nothing less.

Anew bodystyle already? Wow, the current one is still flying off dealer lots The Accord needs a re-do, if anyone.

Camry+hybrid= even more sales. The Accord Hybrid sells I think 2,500 to 3,000 a month.

Mike - why do you say the Accord needs a re-do? IMO, it looks a lot newer than the Camry. What I would really like to know is how many Camry sales go to fleets. Something tells me the gap between Accord sales and Camry sales would be a lot less if you took this into account.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with my speculations. At least they are reasonable and nothing out of line (i.e. based on the facts we already know), don't you think?

doubt the camry will have the 3.5 most likely the 3.0 for regular v6's and maybe the 3.5 for the se

i like the current generation camry right now, i understand they have to refresh the platform with a new model but like with the GS front lighting, the next camry might same a similar headlight arrangement with it goin up into the hood. maybe toyota will follow in lexus headlight footsteps and offers all its models with projector headlamps (just noticed that, now, every Lexus model has projectors now, except the RX330 w/o HID setup)

doubt the camry will have the 3.5 most likely the 3.0 for regular v6's and maybe the 3.5 for the seThe reason I say the new Camry will also have a 3.5L is simply that, traditionally, the Camry has always been given exactly the same engine as the ES in every past redesign--no exception so far. We now all know that the next ES is getting the 3.5L so it's only natural that the next Camry gets it too, SE or not. The Camry SE had the same 3.0L until ES330 was introduced in '03, after all.

On the other hand, I actually hope you're right. It's about time that Toyota/Lexus finally further distinguishes the ES from the Camry by reserving the 3.5L for only the ES and giving the Camry a lower but adequate 245hp 3.0L. At least most people will stop b*tching about how ES is just a souped-up Camry anymore.;)

The reason I say the new Camry will also have a 3.5L is simply that, traditionally, the Camry has always been given exactly the same engine as the ES in every past redesign--no exception so far. We now all know that the next ES is getting the 3.5L so it's only natural that the next Camry gets it too, SE or not. The Camry SE had the same 3.0L until ES330 was introduced in '03, after all.

On the other hand, I actually hope you're right. It's about time that Toyota/Lexus finally further distinguishes the ES from the Camry by reserving the 3.5L for only the ES and giving the Camry a lower but adequate 245hp 3.0L. At least most people will stop b*tching about how ES is just a souped-up Camry anymore.;)

the 245hp would put the camry right there with the accord, and with the SE having the 3.5 it would make it the sporty model with the big hp over all the competiton in its class

thats how i would see it

The reason I say the new Camry will also have a 3.5L is simply that, traditionally, the Camry has always been given exactly the same engine as the ES in every past redesign--no exception so far. We now all know that the next ES is getting the 3.5L so it's only natural that the next Camry gets it too, SE or not. The Camry SE had the same 3.0L until ES330 was introduced in '03, after all.

On the other hand, I actually hope you're right. It's about time that Toyota/Lexus finally further distinguishes the ES from the Camry by reserving the 3.5L for only the ES and giving the Camry a lower but adequate 245hp 3.0L. At least most people will stop b*tching about how ES is just a souped-up Camry anymore.;)
:agree: :agreed: :thumbup:

On the other hand, I actually hope you're right. It's about time that Toyota/Lexus finally further distinguishes the ES from the Camry by reserving the 3.5L for only the ES and giving the Camry a lower but adequate 245hp 3.0L. At least most people will stop b*tching about how ES is just a souped-up Camry anymore.;)

F them all, those people who ***** are the same people driving BMW, MB, and everything else out their with the smallest available engine :cool:

see what i think they should do with the camry is increase the power for the four cylinder model from 160 to at lease 180-190hp and with the 3.0 V6 models if still offered make it at lease 245hp and leave the sport model, the SE for the 3.5 V6 280hp and just stiffen up the suspension a lil more, but as well make the car have the luxurious feel from the camry XLE and offer like sport seats with camry SE embrolled in the seats and offer aluninum and wood trim inside the SE and with the XLE, standard, and LE make it a plush ride like the avalon limited. and as for the hybrid camry, make it as fast as possible, haha offer the VDIM thats in the GS450h and put it in the camry hybrid, to make the car sporty which i think its lacking.

Mike - why do you say the Accord needs a re-do? IMO, it looks a lot newer than the Camry. What I would really like to know is how many Camry sales go to fleets. Something tells me the gap between Accord sales and Camry sales would be a lot less if you took this into account.
The reason I say that is Accord sales are down and have not reached the older generation models sales figures. Funny b/c this new Accord is IMO superior in every aspect.

As for fleet sales, I don't care, these are pretty much fleet cars (as in popular, one size fits all, solid cars). Now seeing some luxury branded cars in rental lots (I won't name who to prevent fanboys from appearing to save the day) in fleet lots is an issue. Camry/Accord/Tauus/Altima etc in fleet, no issue

It's easy to see why Accord sales are down.....styling. True, everybody's tastes differ, and I don't mean to suggest otherwise, but even having said that, it's hard IMO to justify the present-generation Accord's styling. Honda has gotten away from the handsome and smart-looking Accords of the early 1990's and gone to these ugly triangular sweep-back headlights, frumpy-looking rear decks, and tech-look interiors. Apparantly it has turned off others too...not just me.

The Camry has also adopted those ugly sweep-back headlights but they are not as outlandish as the ES330's, and the Camry has managed to hold on to its customer base in spite of them.
The Camry's rear end is not as frumpy-looking as the Accord's either.

It's easy to see why Accord sales are down.....styling. True, everybody's tastes differ, and I don't mean to suggest otherwise, but even having said that, it's hard IMO to justify the present-generation Accord's styling. Honda has gotten away from the handsome and smart-looking Accords of the early 1990's and gone to these ugly triangular sweep-back headlights, frumpy-looking rear decks, and tech-look interiors. Apparantly it has turned off others too...not just me.

The Camry has also adopted those ugly sweep-back headlights but they are not as outlandish as the ES330's, and the Camry has managed to hold on to its customer base in spite of them.
The Camry's rear end is not as frumpy-looking as the Accord's either.

Interesting - personally I love the new Accord styling. But in today's world, bland sells for some reason and you have to admit, the Camry is bland compared to the Accord (Interior especially).

What I would really like to know however is what % of Camry sales are to fleets? (I had read 10-12%) - however if this is increasing, there is a chance that is why Camry's sales are increasing. Just a theory.

February 2006!! That means the ES350 is arriving then as well, just a few months after the new IS goes on sale.

The new Camry if following the tradition will definitely share the same 280hp 3.5L V6 that the Avalon and the ES350 have, which means the hybrid Camry, based on the same V6, will have more power than the 278hp 3.3L V6-based hybrid Highlander/RX400h but probably tuned lower than the GS450h for better fuel economy. And since the GS450h will have far more than 300hp and the Avalon has 280hp, I'd say that this hybrid Camry will have about 300hp if not a bit more.

But then again if the hybrid Camry does have 300hp then the issues naturally associated with high-powered FWD cars will need to be addresssed.


There is no way in heck there is going to be a 300+ hp camry within the next 5 years, heck even 10 years.

If anything I see it using the 278 hp rx400h power plant as the most powerful setup possible( Thats still huge for camry levels and still a hard number to believe for a camry.). No point in making an entire drivetrain for just one model. And perhaps the 3.5 liter could be the highest non hybrid model offered. I even see the 2.4 liter + hybrid setup pushing around 200+ hp being an alternative option/hybrid possibility.

Camry has never been the one with the leading hp numbers in its class, its not typical of toyota.

It

Accord sales are down mainly because of the strong emergence of the Altima since 2002, and to a less lesser extent the Sonata/Optima. The Sonata/Optima are taking away some of the bargain, value oriented buyers. The Altima takes away some of the Accord buyers who are looking for a little sport in their family sedan. The Altima is less likely to take away sales from the Camry, which has a much softer ride and mushier handling than either the Accord or Altima.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7882633/

Toyota seen announcing hybrid Camry
Report: Automaker to build fuel-efficient vehicle in KentuckyThe Associated Press
Updated: 8:10 a.m. ET May 17, 2005GEORGETOWN, Ky. - Toyota Motor Corp. planned a news conference Tuesday at its Kentucky auto plant, amid reports that the company plans to begin building a gasoline-electric hybrid version of the Camry here.

Citing unnamed company executives, the Wall Street Journal reported Monday that Toyota planned to shift production of its hybrids to North America, but planned only to discuss the Camry model on Tuesday.

Responding to the Wall Street Journal report, Toyota spokesman Paul Nolasco in Tokyo said Tuesday that shifting hybrid production entirely to North America wasn't "anywhere in the cards."

Georgetown plant spokesman Rick Hesterberg declined to comment on the reports. The Georgetown plant now assembles the Camry, Avalon and Solara models.

Besides the Camry hybrid, the company also is considering the possibility of producing the Prius hybrid or a hybrid version of the small Corolla sedan in North America, the newspaper reported.

Last week, a Japanese news agency reported that Toyota would produce a gasoline-electric hybrid based on its Camry passenger car in Kentucky. Officials at Toyota's North American headquarters could not confirm that report last week.

The Toyota plant in Georgetown opened in 1987 and is the company's largest American facility.

Gov. Ernie Fletcher left Saturday on a trade mission to Japan. On Monday, Fletcher was in Aichi, Japan, helping to launch "Kentucky Week" at the 2005 World Expo.

Fletcher's office said Monday night that Fletcher would participate in the news conference via satellite. The company scheduled simultaneous news conferences in Georgetown and Washington, D.C., as well as a Webcast.

Gene Strong, the state's economic development secretary, said last week the timing of Fletcher's trip could be helpful as Kentucky courts the Toyota hybrid.

It was Toyota's decision to build its Georgetown plant a generation ago that made Kentucky a boom state in the automobile assembly and supply business. Toyota President Fujio Cho ran the Georgetown plant for seven years after it opened.

Production of Camry Hybrid to Start in Late 2006

05/17/2005 Georgetown, KY

Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America (TMMNA) today announced the company's first North American gas-electric hybrid production will be at its Georgetown, Ky., plant – Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. (TMMK) – when production of a Camry hybrid begins in late 2006.

TMMK will have the capacity to build approximately 48,000 Camry hybrid vehicles per year. The addition of hybrid production to TMMK will include a $10 million investment in the plant.

TMMK was established in 1986 and is Toyota's largest plant in North America. It employs approximately 7,000 team members and currently builds the Camry, Avalon and Solara. The plant has the capacity to build 500,000 vehicles annually. Since its inception, TMMK has built nearly six million vehicles, and the plant's current investment is nearly $5.3 billion.

Toyota expects capacity and employment to stay the same at TMMK with the addition of the Camry hybrid. The production of these hybrid vehicles will take place on the plant's existing lines, and no new construction is planned.

"This is a proud day for the entire state of Kentucky," said Kentucky Governor Ernie Fletcher, who attended the news conference from Japan via satellite. "For nearly 20 years, Toyota has called Kentucky home. We provide the kind of favorable business climate that encourages companies like Toyota to continue to invest here."

"Once the decision was reached to make a hybrid version of our best-selling vehicle – the Camry – the Georgetown plant was the natural choice for Toyota's first North American hybrid production," added Gary Convis, president of TMMK and a managing officer of Toyota Motor Corporation. "Our team members' hard work and dedication over the last 20 years will ensure that the production of these cutting-edge vehicles in Kentucky will also be hugely successful."

"The continued success of Prius has demonstrated consumers' growing demand for hybrid vehicles," said Jim Press, Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A. executive vice president and COO and a managing officer of Toyota Motor Corporation. "Hybrid production in the U.S. will allow us to be even more responsive to the desires of our customers."

Specific vehicle details on the Camry hybrid will be released at a later date. The Camry hybrid joins a growing Toyota and Lexus hybrid lineup in the U.S., which currently includes the groundbreaking Toyota Prius and the Lexus RX 400h luxury hybrid sport utility vehicle (SUV), which reached dealerships in April. Next month, the Toyota Highlander Hybrid mid-size SUV will go on sale, and the 2007 Lexus GS 450h hybrid luxury sedan is targeted for sale in the spring of 2006.

By 2006, Toyota will have the annual capacity to build 1.66 million cars and trucks, 1.44 million engines, and 600,000 automatic transmissions in North America. The company's direct investment is nearly $16.6 billion, with annual purchasing of parts, materials, goods and services from North American suppliers totaling nearly $25 billion. Toyota's North American-produced vehicles include the Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Matrix, Sienna, Solara, Sequoia, Tacoma, Tundra, and the Lexus RX330.

Credit: Toyota Motor Sales, USA

Repost.:)
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163459

There is no way in heck there is going to be a 300+ hp camry within the next 5 years, heck even 10 years.

If anything I see it using the 278 hp rx400h power plant as the most powerful setup possible( Thats still huge for camry levels and still a hard number to believe for a camry.). No point in making an entire drivetrain for just one model. And perhaps the 3.5 liter could be the highest non hybrid model offered. I even see the 2.4 liter + hybrid setup pushing around 200+ hp being an alternative option/hybrid possibility.

Camry has never been the one with the leading hp numbers in its class, its not typical of toyota.

It

Not typical of Toyota? What's that supposed to mean? Just like the new Avalon isn't "typical" :rolleyes: with class leading fuel economy, sharp new styling, and ridiculous power.

Toyota has a history of shocking the industry, and surprising people.

Yes, Toyota is conservative, but Toyota has done many surprising and extreme moves, although in a conservative way. They go about doing things with a cautious conservative perspective, but that doesn't mean they are conservative period.

Don't be surprised to see the new Camry with up to 280HP, having the new Avalon's engine.

Well, just hope they aren't moving any more Lexus production to the NA. People are paying a premium for their premium vehicles for a reason.:dunno:

Repost.:)
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163459

Official press release from THE SOURCE and 3rd party info maybe the same but it's not a repost. ;)

Official press release from THE SOURCE and 3rd party info maybe the same but it's not a repost. ;)True, my bad... the other news was "citing unnamed company executives" while your post was a PR. Great to see it made official isn't it?:p

:rolleyes:

I think manufacturer reps who surf forums do it mostly to entertain themselves. These reps are human afterall, being human, they can't keep away from all the shyt talkin and flaming that we all love. Whatever is posted as facts on forums are already old news to manufacturer reps so they really don't have anything new to learn, but escaping the conservative and confine environment of the corporation they work for is a breath of fresh air and a treat.

Since most forum threads are pure speculations, here's my speculation on the new Camry hybrid. I think it will be used on the 4cyl model only. The base 4cyl will either get a 10hp increase with no increase in displacement or a slight increase in displacement to 2.5L to get a little more HP/Torque since new model will slightly be heavier.

The hybrid model will totally replace the 3.0 V6 altogether and the 3.5L will be reserved for the SE model. What good is a 3.0 if the 3.5 is already more efficient yet more powerful and doesn't take anymore space or weigh anymore? Unless direct injection can get the 3.0 to net 35mpg, otherwise it's just another engine that's no longer competitve for use in todays lineup. Getting rid of the 3.0 will make inventories simpler. But more importantly, it'll ULTIMATELY make more money. The new 3.5 will basically be Toyotas version of the Nissans VQ. IMO, 3.5L is the perfect displacement compramise, not too big, not too small. Makes enough HP/torque to be used in a ton of vehicle. A 3.0 just simply doesn't have the torque especially since todays vehicles keeps getting bigger and heavier. Only BMW can get away with giving the people less while charging more. Porsche, Merc, Lex, Infiniti, Caddilac and even Honda all have gone to larger displacement.

Majority of camry sales will still be the base 4cyl, those who want power and torque can pay the extra and move up to the hybrid model, not only will they get power, but way better fuel economy than even the 4cyl. This makes more sense IMO for people to want or justify paying extra for a hybrid, especially since camry buyers are more economically minded. Since TOYOTA owns exlusive rights to hybrid technology and sells more hybrid than anyone, they can afford to make hybrids no more expensive than upgrading from a regular 4cyl camry to a V6 model. Putting hybrids into a big seller like camry should only make it cheaper.

To me it doesn't make much sense to hybrid a V6 since having both cost way too much and adds too much weight. This is a camry not a lexus, pricing will still be on the top of the list for majority of buyers. Current top of the line V6 camries are already knocking on 30K, hybrid would only add more cost to this. So I can't see why people would want to pay more than 30K plus for a camry(it's still just a camry) when for less than that a much plusher and more luxurious Avalon with 280HP can be had. Just check out accord hybrid sales, it's not that good at all. For the price of a hybrid Accord, I'd jump up to a TL and get a faster and more luxurious vehicle with a better waranty. Non-luxury version of Hybrids will only make sense if people can afford it. Prius sells cuz it's cheap, comfortable, roomy and had no direct competition. Civic hybrid doesn't sell that well cuz regular Civic is already very good in fuel economy, plus it doesn't perform any better. The marketing folks need to get hybrids to make sense and justify it's cost.

Here's my specs for 2006 1/2 Camry :

- Base 4cyl with next gen VVTi = 175-180HP and equal amount of torque, gets 24/34mpg for auto and 25/35mpg for manual. Most likely manual won't even be offer. Nobody buys Camry with manual anyway. Toyota already made sure camry ain't fun to drive, so no reason for manual. With manual out of the way, it's MO MONEY in the bank!!

- Hybrid = 225hp/260ft lb total, gets 32city/37hwy. Performance will be similar to todays V6, but much more responsive for midrange passing and 0-30mph rush hour driving.

- SE = 280hp/270ft lb 22city/31hwy, same as Avalon. Have performance tuned suspension. Mazda 6 like in feel, since most Toyota usually have quicker and more accurate steering IMO than Mazda 6, it should be much more fun to drive than mazda 6. SE will compete directly with Maxima. SE and Hybrid camry will have same base price, SE will be marketed as performance, not economy.

Reason SE models can be priced the same as hybrid the is due to cost saved from using 3.5L in Avalon, IS350, GS350, ES350, Updated Siena/RX350, and maybe next gen Highlander.