Don't know what else to say besides "good luck" to those to-be W221 owners.:egads:

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Automotive/Navigation/?article=/Automotive/Navigation/News/P9D5R9E9

Technology Failure Embarrases (sic) Mercedes
David Richards - Thursday, 17 November 2005

Mercedes has been seriously embarrased be a massive brake failure that has cost them 3 cars and more than $500,000.

German auto technology it appears, is not cracked up to be as good as Mercedes make out. The new Mercedes S class has a sophisticated radar-based braking system when it works. But unfortunatly for Mecedes a recent demonstration in front of a German TV crew failed miserable ending up in a 3 car pile up.

The German television channel got there scoop when the 3 demonstrator Mercedes crashed into each other when the safety demonstration failed. Stern TV, who filmed the programme compares the failurev to the nasty falling-over tendency the early A-class Mercedes had.

In the demonstration Mercedes drives 3 S-classes behind each other. The first car hits the brakes, and the two following cars brake down automatically, to avoid a crash. In theory. In practice, the first car braked, and the two others continued right into the back of each other, resulting in a 3-car pile-up at the test site.

Mercedes security engineers soon discovered the problem: The test had been done in a hall which was made of steel. This confuses the radar, and the system doesn't work properly, causing more than $500,000 worth of cars to crumple into each other.

The system "works perfectly in all other circumstances", according to Mercedes. For now, though, it may be worth keeping your foot near the brake pedal.

http://news.smarthouse.com.au/images/shared/200511171004164fcd7.jpg

Someone needs to get ahold of that video!! :p

So this happened with the radar cruise control that we were talking about earlier this week??

Someone needs to get ahold of that video!! :pYeah, I was wondering that too.:p

Meanwhile, anyone wanna make an OWNED or PRICELESS pic out of that media pic?:D

The question I have is why was the test done indoors behind walls made of steel. I think there may be some validity here. The test should have been done out doors in the open just like normal driving conditions. I'm not a radar expert but if radar was bouncing off of walls giving false readings, it could have lead to the accidents. :uh:

Mercedes has a lot of electrical nightmares on most of their production cars however, I don't think this test was fair. I guess only time will tell when we start to hear more stories.

haha this is soooo embarassing. the tv show should have shown this on tv still, maybe that will get mb to do more homework next time.

to me, the system should work "everywhere". yes, in a room with steel walls that might be an extreme, but hey, could be have been driving the s class in an old industrial area with a lot of steel buildings around and tons of machinaries too. the systems should not have been affected at all.

either way, it's sad...

There goes that german engineering. This is why Japanese cars > *

to me, the system should work "everywhere". yes, in a room with steel walls that might be an extreme, but hey, could be have been driving the s class in an old industrial area with a lot of steel buildings around and tons of machinaries too. the systems should not have been affected at all.Indeed, especially considering that many tunnels are reinforced using steel frames along with concrete. They'd better make sure they put this fine print of "Radar Cruise Control may not work while cruising inside tunnels" in the W221 owner manual or be prepared to be sued. :confused:

Indeed, especially considering that many tunnels are reinforced using steel frames along with concrete. They'd better make sure they put this fine print of "Radar Cruise Control may not work while cruising inside tunnels" in the W221 owner manual or be prepared to be sued. :confused:
they might just as well disable the whole system and not sell it

it's almost like saying "most of the time our cars will run, but under some weird condition, it doesn't" doesn't make sense to me

A big :thumbdn: for MB

haha this is soooo embarassing. the tv show should have shown this on tv still, maybe that will get mb to do more homework next time.

to me, the system should work "everywhere". yes, in a room with steel walls that might be an extreme, but hey, could be have been driving the s class in an old industrial area with a lot of steel buildings around and tons of machinaries too. the systems should not have been affected at all.

either way, it's sad...

Or on any of those bridges that are erector set fabricated from I beams or being in traffic. I guess all the cars in Germany aren't made out of steel. Around here you might find yourself in a pretty good simulation of a steel walled hall on the freeway. Good thing Merc has all those buyers out there waiting to pay for the privilege of driving a science experiment.

Oh man, I can't stop laughing.
Now thats a big boo boo :D

ouch, but that is way to funny

It's not just German cars. I have an Infinity FX with "intelligent cruise control." It fails to see cars ahead of me on a fairly regular basis. Hopefully, I am awake enough to notice a car directly in front of me. Neverthless, it is a wonderful tool for highway driving and greatly decreases fatigue.

It's not just German cars. I have an Infinity FX with "intelligent cruise control." It fails to see cars ahead of me on a fairly regular basis. Hopefully, I am awake enough to notice a car directly in front of me. Neverthless, it is a wonderful tool for highway driving and greatly decreases fatigue.
well, go ahead and ask your local tv station for a demo then :)

Hahaha!

That's a shame. People will still buy them though because it has a 3 pointed star attatched. :rolleyes:

Also, why are only 3 valued at $500,000? Even if they were all S600's w/ 12 cylinder engines they wouldn't be worth that much. Unless it's because they are pre-production. :uh:

Also, why are only 3 valued at $500,000? Even if they were all S600's w/ 12 cylinder engines they wouldn't be worth that much. Unless it's because they are pre-production. :uh:Notice the domain name of the link--the report is from Australia.;)

This is exactly what MB didn't need - people are already super critical of their obvious quality drop off, and a huge media blunder like this on a new technology is just awful! This is totally one of those worst case scenarios that come true... Wouldn't those MB test engineers have thought to just "maybe" do a dry run before calling in the TV crew??! Wow - what a mess. :egads:

This is exactly what MB didn't need - people are already super critical of their obvious quality drop off, and a huge media blunder like this on a new technology is just awful! This is totally one of those worst case scenarios that come true... Wouldn't those MB test engineers have thought to just "maybe" do a dry run before calling in the TV crew??! Wow - what a mess. :egads:
I agree. I think this technology is ridiculous. Just get a damn chauffer is you don't want to drive.

What kills me is, people say how you "drive" a Benz but they are more remote than a Lexus at this point. Your being driven, your not driving.

And your trying to tell me with all those engineers NO ONE THOUGH ABOUT THE STEEL TUNNEL BEFORE THEY TESTED THE CARS???

I call B.S. It failed. I just said in the other tthread its just a matter of time one of these systems fail and a company gets sued.

lawprofsm, I already think a FX owner is suing b/c of the rear back-up camera on the FX or lack of it...

Wow, thats pretty hilarious! hahahaha

Also, why are only 3 valued at $500,000? Even if they were all S600's w/ 12 cylinder engines they wouldn't be worth that much. Unless it's because they are pre-production. :uh:

In addition, look at the backend of the first car in the pic. It's an 06', not an 07'. Anyway, this is too funny. :D

Good Lord!!! :egads: ....with this kind of "So Called" sophisticated technology there is simply no excuse for this failure but what is new with Mercedes? It should have not failed in a steel closed enviroment. With all that costly R&D, they still learn the hard way. And why in the world was it in a steel closed enviroment to begin with??? And not out doors? Something was up, and for starters they were all not to sure about this radar tech....ohh well back to the drawing board with more added confusion and wasted money.... :uh:.... and by the way aren't cars made of steel?!?!?

lol...I think it is embarrassing for MB, and the test may not mimic "real life" exactly, but it still should have worked (you would think you would test it before doing something like this).

My hat is off to MB for looking into new technologies, but maybe they should focus on the driver controlling the car first and tighten up there issues in manufacturing before spending all the excess euros on radical technologies that are trivial at best for car drivers.

If you need someone braking for you, you shouldn't be driving...get a chauffer! :thumbdn:

Sad. Problem is the system (any) can be fooled by false negatives, that is, the system assumes if no radar comes back that there's nothing nearby, well if anything scrambles, absorbs, or deflects the radar then nothing comes back!

I see another disclaimer on the nav screen coming. :sad:

I see another disclaimer on the nav screen coming. :sad:Sooner or later they'll run out of real estate on the screen and will require vertically scrolling through a 10-page disclaimer before an "I Accept" button appears.:dunno:

Notice the domain name of the link--the report is from Australia.;)

Still doesn't make sense though, my old man paid 280,000 for a 2005 S500L (250,000 is the sticker price i believe). So three would be considerably more than $500,000.

Unless they're the S350s... even then, i think they're round the 180,000 dollar mark.

Still doesn't make sense though, my old man paid 280,000 for a 2005 S500L (250,000 is the sticker price i believe). So three would be considerably more than $500,000.

Unless they're the S350s... even then, i think they're round the 180,000 dollar mark.
it was done in Germany, where they cost more than 150,000$ USD, which is about half a mil.

Problem is that you are supposed to rely on it to brake to dead stop. Lexus system works only until certain speed, just for this same reason - computers can NOT anticipate what can happen in real life, however when manufacturer says it can, you might be inclined to believe them and use it like that... One simple error might lead to you not being around anymore.

I don't think this test was fair. I guess only time will tell when we start to hear more stories.

So there is zero chance you will ever be in a long tunnel dug into a mountain, an underground passage as you slide under the freeway in the city, or even an underground parking garage in a high rise - which puts you under a billion tons of steel and 20 to 40 ft underground? Example- WTC

Very fair test IMO :)

Sooner or later they'll run out of real estate on the screen and will require vertically scrolling through a 10-page disclaimer before an "I Accept" button appears.:dunno:

Yup. Just like every other piece of software that no one reads the license agreement for? :egads:

But for every time technology may fail, there's also someone who blames it when it wasn't in fact at fault, so creators have to take steps to protect themselves legally. It's a major problem all around.

So there is zero chance you will ever be in a long tunnel dug into a mountain, an underground passage as you slide under the freeway in the city, or even an underground parking garage in a high rise - which puts you under a billion tons of steel and 20 to 40 ft underground? Example- WTC

Very fair test IMO :)

I thought those kind of tunnels would be concrete, not steel. :uh:

wow these MB threads fill up quickly thats the last thing MB needed to happen. ppl will still buy though b/c its MB

I wonder why the airbag didn't go off? I think it needs to be at a certain speed for the airbags to work? :confused:

oh yeah definitely. in fact, unless necessary the airbag should NOT deploy. it saves lives when it's at high speed, but it deploys at extremely fast speed, if it's just minor hit, it's going to hurt the drivers and passengers

I thought those kind of tunnels would be concrete, not steel. :uh:

Rebar reinforced tunnels, and rebar and steel beam garages. The grid creates a radio cage (entrapment). Irrelevant though since the amount of depth and thickness involved will cancel signals.

Rebar reinforced tunnels, and rebar and steel beam garages. The grid creates a radio cage (entrapment). Irrelevant though since the amount of depth and thickness involved will cancel signals.

I wonder if onstar worked? :D

I noticed that as well.
Not only did the laser cruise radar fail to work because of "steel"........ it seems the airbags did as well. . :D
They must have been traveling at 5 mph so they didn't go off.....still..look at the hood buckle.
Can you say crumble zone.
http://news.smarthouse.com.au/images/shared/200511171004164fcd7.jpg
you didn't read my post. look at how calm those people are in the car. i dont' think it was that hard of a hit at all

you didn't read my post. look at how calm those people are in the car. i dont' think it was that hard of a hit at all

What confuses me is how did such a small accident equate to a total of $500,000 in damage? :uh:

What confuses me is how did such a small accident equate to a total of $500,000 in damage? :uh:
ah, gotcha. that's what i asked myself too. to me those look more like fender bender. well, maybe they just write off the cars afterwards :)

ah, gotcha. that's what i asked myself too. to me those look more like fender bender. well, maybe they just write off the cars afterwards :)

Maybe. Or they could save the money they write off and hire a Japanese guy to design and install their electronics :egads:

you didn't read my post. look at how calm those people are in the car. i dont' think it was that hard of a hit at all
i would guess they did not trust technology enough to drive at higher speeds... smart
:-)

The truth behind the scene makes the story even funnier.:D Good to know that MB engineers knew the limitation of the radar system though.

http://www.askaprice.com/torque-article.asp?article=Failed_Mercedes_demonstration_ a_fake&item=718

'Smashing' Mercedes demonstration was faked

Last week's big story - The Mercedes S-class failing a crash test on television - was a fake: Mercedes knew it wouldn't work, and the pile-up was due to human error during the simulation. The AutoBild journalist was summarily fired.

The German ex-autobild journalist appearing on Stern Tv, Michael Specht, was carrying audio recording equipment. The tape reveals that the accident was, indeed, an accident - but not the way it was expected.

According to sources in German media, Mercedes was already aware that the test would fail in the hall that was chosen for the television report, and recommended against doing the report at all. Desperate for a story, Specht reportedly conspired with the Mercedes engineers to brake manually, in a situation designed to 'simulate' the system.
Foiled by own technology

At the time of the test, however, Specht was unable to see the car in front due to the heavy smoke from the smoke machines. The Mercedes engineers came up with an alternate, low-tech solution: To lay a piece of wood across the path the cars would be driving, so Specht would know where to brake. Unfortunately, the Merc engineers were foiled by their own technology - Due to the extraordinarily good suspension on the S-class, Specht didn't feel the bump in the road, and proceeded to ram straight into the vehicle that had braked in front of him - in front of the rolling cameras and unsuspecting crew from Stern TV.

According to the Swedish website Auto Motor & Sport, Specht was fired from MotorBild this morning, following the leak of the situation around the S-class television.

That is hilarious. :D That active suspension is VERY impressive! :thumbup:

Thanks for the follow-up.

Too bad reporters are so desparate for a sensational 'scary' story they'll fake it and that most people will never see this follow-up only believing the original fake story.

That active suspension is VERY impressive! :thumbup:Indeed, this may not be the best kind of publicity MB had hoped to demonstrate the wonders of their new suspension but the fact that the car crashed because the driver didn't feel the bump at all even when he was concentrating to do so proves how successfully the suspension works and speaks louder than than any other marketing campaign can possibly do. :D :thumbup:

hahaha it's good to know the story behind the scene, but still though, so the system doesn't work in certain scenario

Posted by www.eMercedesBenz.com on November 28, 2005 at 9:20 AM CST

A little while back, we brought you a story about the new Mercedes S-
Class failing a crash test on the Germany's Star TV. If you didn't
read our story, you can find it here.

http://emercedesbenz.com/Nov05/16NewSClassFailsCrashTest.html

It turns out, the entire test was a hoax... well, sort of.

Before the test was conducted, Mercedes alerted Star TV that the
Brake Assist Plus feature wouldn't function correctly in their
testing hall, and recommended they not conduct the test at all.

However, Michael Specht, a MotorBild journalist covering the story,
decided to run the story anyways. Specht, along with the Mercedes
engineers, devised a plan to "simulate" the Brake Assist Plus feature
by manually applying braking pressure on the fog-induced track.

Because of the low visibility, a board was placed over the track so
that Specht would know the correct time to brake the vehicle.
Unfortunately, the plan failed - due to the S-Class' plush
suspension, Specht didn't feel when he passed over the board, and
proceeded to then collide into the vehicle ahead of him.

I'll give you one guess what happened to poor little Michael Specht.
This morning it was announced that Michael was fired from his
position at MotorBild.

I have a feeling some Mercedes engineers might be a little nervous as
well. See kids, it never pays to lie.

source : theautochannel

Was that a pebble I just ran over, or my mother-in-law? :D

Behold... the FULL VIDEO!!:eek2:
http://img.stern.de/_stream/NEBELCRASH_DSL.wmv

wow seems like they are taking it very serious and make it a pretty big deal now!

Posted by www.eMercedesBenz.com on November 28, 2005 at 9:20 AM CST

A little while back, we brought you a story about the new Mercedes S-
Class failing a crash test on the Germany's Star TV. If you didn't
read our story, you can find it here.

http://emercedesbenz.com/Nov05/16NewSClassFailsCrashTest.html

It turns out, the entire test was a hoax... well, sort of.

Before the test was conducted, Mercedes alerted Star TV that the
Brake Assist Plus feature wouldn't function correctly in their
testing hall, and recommended they not conduct the test at all.

However, Michael Specht, a MotorBild journalist covering the story,
decided to run the story anyways. Specht, along with the Mercedes
engineers, devised a plan to "simulate" the Brake Assist Plus feature
by manually applying braking pressure on the fog-induced track.

Because of the low visibility, a board was placed over the track so
that Specht would know the correct time to brake the vehicle.
Unfortunately, the plan failed - due to the S-Class' plush
suspension, Specht didn't feel when he passed over the board, and
proceeded to then collide into the vehicle ahead of him.

I'll give you one guess what happened to poor little Michael Specht.
This morning it was announced that Michael was fired from his
position at MotorBild.

I have a feeling some Mercedes engineers might be a little nervous as
well. See kids, it never pays to lie.

source : theautochannel
well this story is not really true, although it now is starting to go around web, trying to justify MB as almost having nothing to do with it. Maybe MB press machine? :-).

Basically, it was an test of pre-safe, something similar to PCS. This new system is one of the major features of S class. It has two radars that monitor traffic ahead, and prepare brakes and everything else in even of possible crash. It even adjusts braking power to keep the distance between vehicle ahead (so you wouldnt brake too hard if there is no real need, someone could run then into you). Same radar system works during their new distronic cruise control, which is world first that works between 0kmh and 200kmh, completly stopping the car and starting it again.

What happened was this:

1. DC wanted to demonstrate their pre-safe technology in adverse conditions (fog). They called in biggest magazine - Autobild (not MotorBild, lol), and Stern TV, which is investigative report show (very famous in Germany)

2. DC realized that system wont work in closed building and together with Autobild editor, they decided to fake it. Could Autobild editor make MB directors to fake the damn thing? I find that really ridicilous. What happened is that they didnt want to loose face in front of Stern TV, which would then publish it.

3. DC in arragment with Autobild editor, put an board over one part of the track so Autobild editor would know when to start braking. They thought system has only 40% of chance to work.

4. SternTV had several cameras around and mike on the Autobild editor. Before the first run, they heard when Autobild ed was complaining to MB guy how he is worried that TV will notice that there was no sound warning in the car when he started braking. This is when Stern TV took notice and started taping everything closer.

5. Ed went off in new S class, and since it is small track, he forgot himself and did not brake when he should have, simply running into the next car. MB blamed it on the building and got another s class in.

6. TV started taping hushed discussions between MB employees. They were denied passanger seat in new test. They taped the board over the track.

7. Next run, Ed was braking long before even board was hit, so they had to repeat it.

And finally, Stern TV published report that mage huge deal out of MB trying to fake the test, together with Autobild. They got one of the DC bosses in who explained how they knew system wouldnt work so they put the board over. He apologized to Stern TV for not letting them know that :-).

What happened was MB trying to save their face in the eve of S class launch. This is one of their biggest new features and they didnt want to admit it doesnt work always. They got Autobild Editor to agree, I suspect they are long time buddies but they wanted TV not to notice anything. They have been basically caught with their pants down, and lost huge deal of credibility.

To blame it on Autobild is pretty funny, while editor shouldnt have agreed, he was the one who seemed worried and twitchy, younger guy with lots of upper DC executives around him.

Basically, it was an test of pre-safe, something similar to PCS. This new system is one of the major features of S class. It has two radars that monitor traffic ahead, and prepare brakes and everything else in even of possible crash. It even adjusts braking power to keep the distance between vehicle ahead (so you wouldnt brake too hard if there is no real need, someone could run then into you). Same radar system works during their new distronic cruise control, which is world first that works between 0kmh and 200kmh, completly stopping the car and starting it again.Wow... thanks to spwolf for translating and summarizing what's going on in the video. :thumbup: I had no idea that much had happened with no knowledge of the German language. :p Yeah DC should be ashamed of their trying to fake the whole thing, not Autobild. Poor Mike.

Just want to point out though, that it wasn't Pre-Safe that was being tested, it was the new generation of radar cruise control--one that works under 25mph and down to a full stop. Pre-Safe only works when a collision is deemed unavoidable, while RCC works to avoid a collision.;)

Wow... thanks to spwolf for translating and summarizing what's going on in the video. :thumbup: I had no idea that much had happened with no knowledge of the German language. :p Yeah DC should be ashamed of their trying to fake the whole thing, not Autobild. Poor Mike.

Just want to point out though, that it wasn't Pre-Safe that was being tested, it was the new generation of radar cruise control--one that works under 25mph and down to a full stop. Pre-Safe only works when a collision is deemed unavoidable, while RCC works to avoid a collision.;)
it was actually pre-safe. Driver was supposed to see/hear the warning without seeing the car ahead, and then braking according to the warning, while radar controlled pre-safe would controll how much braking force would it be applied.. Thats why there was fog (so driver wouldnt see anything).

I also thought it was distronic being tested, before I read the article on stern tv website...

wow, thanks for the insight there spwolf. i started to like this drama :D