I went to two dealers and told them that I wanted to purchase the 2006 250 IS with no options. They gave me the typical salesman BS. Do you have to be a moron to be a car salesman? I have not met one who wasn't a moron. They said, "Well the standard 250 IS has to be a special order". I said so order it. "Well you have to wait 6 months for that car because they are not building them". I said order the car and I will pay you $750 over invoice. "We are getting full MSRP for the car". I said stick the IS up your A&&%^%^$%S and walked out. I will keep my car.
I don't want to deal with these moron car salesmen :egads:

I really don't see anything wrong with what they told you. They are getting near full msrp for the car, why would they want to use a space and give it to you less than what they can get for it?

I feel it's crazy if anyone would pay MSRP for a car. Any new car that comes out for the first 6 months ask MSRP, but after that you are able to get a good amount off the MSRP. I just can't see giving the dealers $3K + profit. I'll wait.

There's always a price to pay to be the first on the block to own a shiny new toy, and nowhere is that more true than in the luxury car market.

Treat people with respect and you'll get it back. You sound like a pain to deal with. You don't get to control the market at which cars sell.
Hahaha, my thoughts exactly.

I guess everyone needs to start somewhere in learning the art of negotiating...

It's a simple fact: there is a price for everything, and it just depends if you can afford it (or willing to pay for it).

If you want to buy two bucks for a dollar, it just won't happen.

Good luck. I hope you find a car that will suit your needs and budget.

I feel it's crazy if anyone would pay MSRP for a car. Any new car that comes out for the first 6 months ask MSRP, but after that you are able to get a good amount off the MSRP. I just can't see giving the dealers $3K + profit. I'll wait.
if that's really so crazy to you, don't even ask them then. like others said, if you want the same kind of respect, respect others too.

custom order a car will take up to 3 months to arrive in some case. and yes you will most likely pay msrp. when i almost custom order my sc430 that's what i would have to pay. you pay a premium coz' you want something exclusive and they have to "go out of their way" to get it for you. like it or not that's a fact. buy it or not that's your choice

I've always believed that there's no such thing as non-negotiable. I got my IS 350 about 2 weeks after it was available and got around $2k off MSRP. You just need to talk to the right people and have a lot of patience. It does pay off at the end.

I went to two dealers and told them that I wanted to purchase the 2006 250 IS with no options. They gave me the typical salesman BS. Do you have to be a moron to be a car salesman? I have not met one who wasn't a moron. They said, "Well the standard 250 IS has to be a special order". I said so order it. "Well you have to wait 6 months for that car because they are not building them". I said order the car and I will pay you $750 over invoice. "We are getting full MSRP for the car". I said stick the IS up your A&&%^%^$%S and walked out. I will keep my car.
I don't want to deal with these moron car salesmen :egads:

Who knows, you may be a nice guy, but based on your post, it's not the salesperson who sounds like the moron. :rolleyes: "Stick the IS up your..."??? Yeah, real mature.

And by the way, my Lexus salesperson is great.

I went to two dealers and told them that I wanted to purchase the 2006 250 IS with no options. They gave me the typical salesman BS. Do you have to be a moron to be a car salesman? I have not met one who wasn't a moron. They said, "Well the standard 250 IS has to be a special order". I said so order it. "Well you have to wait 6 months for that car because they are not building them". I said order the car and I will pay you $750 over invoice. "We are getting full MSRP for the car". I said stick the IS up your A&&%^%^$%S and walked out. I will keep my car.
I don't want to deal with these moron car salesmen :egads:

Right when the IS first came out a guy purchase an IS250 6MT with just 18 inch wheels. He got $1500 off. The price before taxes was $29995..

I'm sure you can do much better now.. Yes that dealer is a moron.. They do build base IS250's.. Ive seen alot of them.

Could be because of your location.

My salesman told me msrp also. All I did was say I'm not willing to pay that right now, but gave him my number for when prices start falling.

In my experience of car salesmen, the ones at Lexus are generally far more Professional than everywhere else.
They may be more polite, but they are certainly not more knowledgeable.

car salesman have to make a living, and unfortunately for you and I its in their best interest to charge us the highest price possible. thats how they make their living.
some guys can be cool, but they wont give u the best price.
I personally dont care if the guy kisses my ass, as long as he give me the best price.

I never believe a word they say about nothing, because they will lie, stretch the truth, say anything to undermine your position.
but I dont hate them for it, thats what they are supposed to do....also i'll stretch the truth too(Dealer XYZ said he will sell me a IS350 with NAV for 400 over invoice!).

In the end, we are the ones that ultimately make the buying decision, so if a salesman wants to be a arrogant prick and wont deal, screw him go buy somewhere else.

There's good and bad salespeople at every company in every state. Thinking that saleseople are the scum of the earth is narrow minded judgement. Everyone has good days and bad days, not just in California and New York. Car dealerships are still a business and are allowed to make a profit. True there are some customers who act in a less than desirable way, but that's the nature of the business. After 13 years in the business there's been quite a few people I wanted to slap some sense into (and manners). Both customers and fellow sales associates. LOL. I'm sure there's people you dislike at your job or a boss who is unfair to you. Bottom line is we are all human and anyone who tells someone to "shove the IS" just puts that salesperson in a bad mood, who in turn could take it out on the next guy who walks in. What goes around comes around, in every way possible.

They may be more polite, but they are certainly not more knowledgeable.
liz is right. generalizing all sales like the way you did is pretty bad imho. i have seen sales (lexus or not) where they know more about cars than most of us here, found out that they actually work on their cars themselves. and at the same time i have seen people who are just as ridiculous as those who have never driven a car.

my bottom line i do my own homework and i am not relying on the sales to tell me. that's the smartest thing to do.

and i hate to say this again, but i live in cali, and i know/knew of one super knowledgeable and nice lexus salesperson. i am forever grateful to know her

you know.. during my sales years.. okay i mean it wasn't long.. but 3 years is pretty good.. and it's a job where it required me to DEAL.. and whenever a person came in and was an ahole and asked for things that weren't even capable.. i would be more stern with them.. i would not budge.. I heard a saying that said, "A person can never spit on a smiling face" so.. be nice.. play nice and you will get nice numbers

"We as a dealership are going to sell what we can get for a car."

There is nothing wrong with that, its about supply/demand, I dont fault the dealerships for wanting to maximize profits, its a business. Salespeople are there to sell you a car at the highest possible price while I am there to purchase a car at the lowest price. They are definitely not looking out for your best interests, and thats the way it should be. Walk onto the lot, any saleperson will tell you "Car is selling at MSRP", despite sites such as carsdirect.com showing the car can be purchased at -2500 MSRP. As a consumer, I should know this well beforehand. If I dont , its my fault if I overpay.

As for the arrogant prick comment, yes there are some salespeople like that out there. But thats fine with me, competition is what ultimately drives prices down, and there is always another dealer accross town that is waiting to make a sale. Like it or not consumers are the driving force behind demand and they have the right to be " arrogant pricks" - they are the ones shelling out the money to buy the car.

The smart salesman who consistently make sales realizes this, that its a numbers game and doesnt get bent out of shape over a deal. Sone, unfortunately (and this applies to consuemrs as well) dont.

but i live in cali, and i know/knew of one super knowledgeable and nice lexus salesperson. i am forever grateful to know her
Haha, you can say it as many times as you wish! *blushing* :p

I've dealt with a lot of dealerships in the past few years... there are definately some that fall under the category of those that are just pathetic and I will never shop at. My buddy was looking for a car a few weeks ago. We go see my friendly salesman at the Lexus dealership (who I throw a lot of business when I can, and he helps me out with whatever I need) and get greated by a bunch of guys in suits, sales manager comes over and introduces himself, shakes my hand, and thanks me for my continued business. They then tell us to sit down while their salesmen go pul up some cars that may interest us. (He sends some of the guys out and they come back with three cars)

Not bad seeing I bought one of their cheapest Lexus cars.

So... we go down the street to a VW dealership. We get greated by a big ghetto looking dude wearing Sean John and Rocawear... they use some very unprofessional language (not that I don't, but there are times for everything), and we ended up watching two salesmen get into a fight over whos customers we were.

That experience just made me appreciate my Lexus dealer :thumbup:

Why can't buying a car be simple. I want this car w/ so and so stuff on it.

I will pay this amount no more and no less. Take it or leave it.

End of story. Whats with this negotiating thing.
you want to pass less, they want to earn more. that's what set the price point, and that's where negotiation is.... it's not hard to understand even for me an engineer

Why can't buying a car be simple. I want this car w/ so and so stuff on it.

I will pay this amount no more and no less. Take it or leave it.

End of story. Whats with this negotiating thing.


It can be done, usually dealing with the fleet guy or internet sales manager will get you as close to this as possible.

As far as the original post and experience, I prefer the salesman I deal with to be up front and honest like that. At least he didn't keep you there feeding you line after line for hours to find out he wanted MSRP.

Who knows, you may be a nice guy, but based on your post, it's not the salesperson who sounds like the moron. :rolleyes: "Stick the IS up your..."??? Yeah, real mature.

And by the way, my Lexus salesperson is great.

Hey cuz - you were not there and don't know all the facts - so i think you should think before you make the remark. :boxing:

I bought new cars in the past such as the 350Z when it first came out. I did get $$ off MSRP after negotiating but it was a different story with Lexus. These people have a attitude that says "if you want a Lexus you have to pay top $$ for it"

So if you need to make a statement and be the first on your block and pay way too much for your IS then do so but I will have the same car in my driveway 6 months from now and also have $3,000 + in my pocket.

Treat people with respect and you'll get it back. You sound like a pain to deal with. You don't get to control the market at which cars sell.


True.....no arguments there. But you also don't have a market when people start getting up and walking out. It works both ways.

it's just a game. learn how to play it. pissing people off will get you nowhere.

lol... demanding a price works at smaller dealerships (non luxury) and after the first year of sale (assuming the car isn't moving as fast as it was).

The IS is moving quite fast (out stock changes weekly) and special ordering you one just means you REALLY want that particular model. From what I've heard, most special orders are going for MSRP (or 1k-1500 below MSRP) but a few get 'hooked up' because they are repeat customers. Did you go in assuming he'd be 'the bad guy' ? If so, then he'd obviously get super defensive.

I don't want to deal with these moron car salesmen :egads:

Well, you want a new car, don't you? :uh:

Unless you have an auto consultant, auto buying service, win the car in a contest, or have someone else where you live who is like me.....helping people get their vehicles, do it for you, then I'm afraid you are not going to have much choice. You're going to have to deal with salespeople ( or a sales manager if he / she writes up the deal personally ) eventually, even if it is at another dealership. That is just the way that, in most cases, new cars are sold.
If you don't want to bargain or deal with markups, discounts, or incentives, and just want a quick and easy buying process, then start out with a Saturn or a Scion product. They sell at list price....no haggling.

They may be more polite, but they are certainly not more knowledgeable.

Yes....this is true. While there are some salespeople who DO know their products, unfortunately too many of them don't. The majority of them are simply moneymaking agents for the dealership. Many of us here at CAR CHAT know far more about the actual cars themselves. If you want to find out more about the car you are buying BEFORE you deal with these people, check Consumer Reports, other auto magazines, and road tests....and talk with us here on CAR CHAT. Several of us here actually do reviews.

But...on the other hand, it must also be remembered that car salespeople are not in the buisness just to screw people either. They are human beings that have needs just like anyone else, and they have to make a living, too. They often have mortgages, kids in college, and car payments themselves to meet.....and the world doesn't give them a free living either.

II really like the IS and I'll wait until spring and see what the market is like then. Usually the demand will slow down and they will be willing to negotiate more, this is not a limited production car. :rolleyes:

Hey cuz - you were not there and don't know all the facts - so i think you should think before you make the remark. :boxing:

YOU posted and all we could base on was what YOU said. if you don't like what some other people said constructively based on what YOU said, then you can choose not to post this to begin with

Treat people with respect and you'll get it back. You sound like a pain to deal with. You don't get to control the market at which cars sell.


Hardly.

I'm a younger person and I don't 'dress' the part and you'd be amazed how long I have to wait for someone to:

greet me
ask me if I was already helped
what I am interested in


I've owned 2 lexus cars already. I purchased my first Lexus at 21 and bought it loaded (sans Nav) for $500 over invoice. The next time I purchased a car things did not go as smoothly. The sales people were rude / inconsiderate and a pain to deal with.

Only once they learned my bank account / credit rating did they run over and play ball.




To the original poster.
Use the internet. Just fill out a quote request on cars.com or a similar site and wait for the replies. Eventually you'll hit on a rep that is willing to deal with you.

Good luck!

it's just a game. learn how to play it. pissing people off will get you nowhere.


Damn right, you have to speak their language to achieve YOUR desired goal. Sometimes backing up a few steps would further advance your position considerably.

Dude, how can you demand to pay 750$ over invoice a car that people pay MSRP and more on??? they cant even keep the car in stock, you act like its a camry and they have 65 of them sitting on the lot collecting dust. There are tons of people willing to pay more then you to buy the car, ITS CALLED SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

and lexus probably isnt building the base is250 right now, why would they? 99% of people who buy it will want some sort of a package, even if its a small one. and lexus isnt going to build your "special order" until they fill all the demand for the IS's that people want. nothing they said to you was stupid. Walking into a dealership that sells a limited car and demanding thousands off is retarted and I cant think of one person in the worl who would take you seriously.

I was considering the new Jeep grand cherokee srt8. 420hp, 0-60 un under 5 secs, 1/4 time of about 13.6. DEALERS WANT 3-5K OVER STICKER!!! and theres no bargaining. there will only be 1000 made for 2006 so who am I to fight it? wake up and look around you. if you want a car for invoice go to a hyundai dealer and pick out a base elantra.

Hey cuz - you were not there and don't know all the facts - so i think you should think before you make the remark. :boxing:

Hmm, thought I did think before I posted. :uh: If I overlooked something, then please enlighten me with all the facts. You posted:

"I went to two dealers and told them that I wanted to purchase the 2006 250 IS with no options. They gave me the typical salesman BS. Do you have to be a moron to be a car salesman? I have not met one who wasn't a moron."

What was the typical salesman BS? Was it a high pressure pitch? Was it that you had to special order the car? What was it that the salesperson said that made him a moron? And then you imply that you have to be a moron to be a salesperson. I've met some less than desirable salespeople in my days, but also have met fantastic ones.

They said, "Well the standard 250 IS has to be a special order". I said so order it. "Well you have to wait 6 months for that car because they are not building them".

What's wrong with this? If the car you want isn't allocated to them or scheduled to be built, you have to special order...and wait. Sounds reasonable.

I said order the car and I will pay you $750 over invoice. "We are getting full MSRP for the car". I said stick the IS up your A&&%^%^$%S and walked out.

Offering $750 over invoice is fine. Nothing wrong with trying to get a good deal. Not suprisingly , they say no. Did you honestly expect them to say yes right away??? And you tell them to stick it up their ***? Well, maybe that's your style of negotiating.

I will keep my car. I don't want to deal with these moron car salesmen

Good luck on finding a new IS.

Why can't buying a car be simple. I want this car w/ so and so stuff on it.

I will pay this amount no more and no less. Take it or leave it.

End of story. Whats with this negotiating thing.

Thats how Saturn does it.

I always find its easier to get help, or be taken seriously if you drive in sporting a luxury car. When I want to test drive a new 4 Runner at the Toyota dealership I take my Lexus SUV and get the royal treatment. Same thing when I'm looking at apartments to rent, when 3 people are at the apartment the landlords seems to give the lease to the person with the Lexus and not the Kia, LOL, its true.

Expensive cars are status symbols and a necessity when doing a large financial transaction, remember that.

As an ex volkswagen sales person it was hard for me to pay sticker for the IS350. But as others have stated, it's all about supply and demand. MY IS350 is in transit somewhere. they have none on the lot.

There is another way you can negotiate though. Your trade in. I worked with two dealerships in town and eventually got my payment down from $570.00 a month to $514.00 a month. It's still $14.00 more a month than I wanted to pay, but I figured, what the heck, that's close enough.

Remember, the used car manager will hold back money on your trade. That makes more money for his department and the dealership. I finally got the second dealer to change his quote on my trade in and that got my payments back down to a reasonable level.

One thing I noticed about Lexus dears is that they give you no worksheet when negotiating. This makes it very hard to know exactly where they are getting their numbers. My salesman didn't even know what one is.

I made the salesmanager write it all out for me. There are things like dealer services fees, that you can negotiate as well. So I paid sticker for the car, but I negotiated ohter elements of the deal. It's called working the front end or the back end.

If they say you have to pay sticker because it's a hot car ( which it is) then just say ok and start there. You can negotiate whith the decision makers in the dealership. The salesman usually doesn't have the power to even make decisions.

Hopes this helps :)

i do sales for toyota. ill give u hints on how to buy the car. first off. its a new model either way u cut it u WILL pay MSRP. every dealer will sell at sticker or above. make sure u have great credit. o yeah to get a really good deal. send in a lead through the internet. internet sales works from invoice up. floor room sales works msrp down. u will ALWAYS get a better deal if u go through the internet. by that i mean edmunds, autobytel, or just www.lexus.com. but i think ur gonna end up paying sticker if u really want the car. just dont get fooled into the hidden dealer fees. make sure they break down the price for u.

I went to two dealers and told them that I wanted to purchase the 2006 250 IS with no options. They gave me the typical salesman BS. Do you have to be a moron to be a car salesman? I have not met one who wasn't a moron. They said, "Well the standard 250 IS has to be a special order". I said so order it. "Well you have to wait 6 months for that car because they are not building them". I said order the car and I will pay you $750 over invoice. "We are getting full MSRP for the car". I said stick the IS up your A&&%^%^$%S and walked out. I will keep my car.
I don't want to deal with these moron car salesmen :egads:


I pride myself with giving the best possible customer service I can possibly give. I work at a retail bussiness. But Im glad my company gives me the option to ask people that are not customers but actually looking for someone to yell at to leave. And leave the premises.

Youd be surprised what you can get when you treat people with respect. Ill give you an example. An older gentleman wants to attempt to install his own food disposer. That is fine we do offer an installation for that but if he wants to attempt it more power to him. Ill will go out of the way to explain it to him, whip out instructions go over it with him highlight certain parts. And write down for him which wire is which when it comes to the connection. I did not make an installation sale and he bought an economical food dispenser but who cares I have gained the trust of the customer and he was impressed with the service that I know hell be back again.

I get the same call... angry spoiled brat of a chick. she wants to know the exact same thing, but her approach was very demeaing. She gives me her old wiring description over the phone gets impatient as I pull out instructions. Obviously she was to cheap to get the install done for her, and obviously shes having trouble doing it herself, especially since shes not really capable of reading the instructions for herself. However I am not required and in fact discouraged to talk people through an installation, for if she were to screw up (and im sure she would.) Based on her very disrespectful attitude (Can i get someone that knows what theyre talking about?!?!?!? my knee jerk thought that comes to mind? f-you b**** read the instructions!) shed be very fast to pin the blame on me and hold me liable for any problems she might have...

So what do I do? I stick to policy I tell them Im not required to give out install information. And infact discouraged to do so. If she wants installed shes welcome to arranged someone install it for her. Why should I go out of my way for someone that treated me less then human? Its just an example of how a client basically screwed themselves over from the get go. You might be thinking well what about her bussiness? You wont get it again!! Well unfortunately for her there is a market for home improvement.

I don't think a salesman is an a-hole because they wouldn't take 750 over invoice. As everyone else said, its supply and demand. I'm sure you could've gotten a 05 IS300 for invoice+750 because they weren't really selling, the 06 is a different story.

And when you think about it, the sales associates are people too. They are real people, with families and bills to pay like the rest of us. I know a couple different sales people.... for example when my friend sells a new Nissan for 750 over invoice, he makes $100. If he sells 15-20 cars per month all at that rate, thats not a WHOLE lot to live on.

Also think about it this way... people go to electronics store of their choice and buy a TV for $3500. At places like Best Buy, prices are non-negotiable. Chances are, the store is making 800-1000 in profit. So whats wrong with paying $3,500 over invoice for a $30-35,000 car. People don't ever complain how much Best Buy is making a 30% markup on the TV.... why complain that the dealer is making 10% out of something which you get MUCH more utility and use out of.

I don't think a salesman is an a-hole because they wouldn't take 750 over invoice. As everyone else said, its supply and demand. I'm sure you could've gotten a 05 IS300 for invoice+750 because they weren't really selling, the 06 is a different story.

And when you think about it, the sales associates are people too. They are real people, with families and bills to pay like the rest of us. I know a couple different sales people.... for example when my friend sells a new Nissan for 750 over invoice, he makes $100. If he sells 15-20 cars per month all at that rate, thats not a WHOLE lot to live on.

Also think about it this way... people go to electronics store of their choice and buy a TV for $3500. At places like Best Buy, prices are non-negotiable. Chances are, the store is making 800-1000 in profit. So whats wrong with paying $3,500 over invoice for a $30-35,000 car. People don't ever complain how much Best Buy is making a 30% markup on the TV.... why complain that the dealer is making 10% out of something which you get MUCH more utility and use out of.

Not to mention... that a large portion of that money goes to the selling associate, an appliance salesmen makes as much if not more then a car salesmen.. Think about that one ... Prices are non negotiable.. and its most all on spiffs. If they make 50-80k a year (sometimes very busy/lucky salesmen might break 100k though not common.) Its all on spiffs since their actual base wages ranges anywhere in the high 20s to low 30s. only a fraction on what they really make on commissions and bonuses.... this applies to most appliance stores...

We as a dealership are going to sell what we can get for a car. The MSRP is what we are suppose to sell them for. Due to the domestic market it has become very common to purchase cars less than MSRP. A Lexus over any other brand is worth paying sticker for. The value is there. If you can get one for less than that, congrats. Selling a car for what it's worth doesn't make the salesman a "arrogant prick". I suppose the customer is an "arrogant prick" for suggesting less than that and lying to boot by your theory.

.

You guys may WANT to get list price for them, but if people are not willing to pay list, you have to do some adjusting too. If things get to the point where ( like the original poster here ) people start getting up and walking out, you get ZERO....and maybe the next dealership down the street DOES get the sale.