just thought that this would be an interesting read


From this morning'w WSJ

BMW's Chief Designer
Enjoys Newfound Respect

Bangle's Curvy Style, Initially Slammed
By Critics, Fuels Trend
By NEAL E. BOUDETTE
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
January 12, 2006; Page D4

DETROIT – Trashed by critics just a few years ago, BMW AG chief designer Chris Bangle is experiencing a pleasant reversal of fortune at this week's Detroit auto show.

Mr. Bangle, a 49-year-old American, was pummeled by BMW fans and auto journalists after the German car maker restyled its flagship 7 Series sedan in 2001 with sculpted curves and contours. The car's bulbous trunk was ridiculed as the "Bangle butt," and thousands signed an Internet petition imploring BMW to "Stop Chris Bangle."

But at this year's North American International Auto Show, designs resembling Mr. Bangle's work are cropping up in cars from several BMW rivals, including Toyota Motor Corp.'s new Camry and the Mercedes-Benz S-Class from DaimlerChrysler AG's Mercedes division, both of which sport raised trunks.

"Suddenly, everyone is trying to do the kind of styling for which the auto journalists criticized the BMW group so loudly," BMW Chief Executive Helmut Panke crowed at a dinner with reporters here. "You look at the Camry rear end and you see another 7 Series. It is not the 'Bangle butt' anymore."

The new LS 460 from Toyota's Lexus brand also has a profile that almost exactly follows that of the 7 Series, while models from Nissan Motor Co.'s Inifiniti brand have moved to a modernist styling.

In an interview, Mr. Bangle said he is pleased BMW's work is being emulated, but, "I don't dwell on these issues," he said. "In this business, you don't spend a lot of time looking in the mirror. You try to figure out what curve is coming up."

With other car makers following the course Mr. Bangle set, some of his critics are starting to come around, especially now that the new 3 Series sedan has been launched to favorable reviews. The car, which is BMW's top-selling model and was redesigned last year, has a look related to that of the 7 Series, but with less-curvaceous headlights and taillights and fewer sharp creases and contours.

For some customers, the toned-down, modernist look of the 3 Series and the fact that more and more cars are adopting similar designs have made Mr. Bangle's work less jarring.

"The new 3 Series has actually tempered some of my animosity toward Mr. Bangle," said Tony Yokam, a software salesman in California. "He's done a really good job there." This year, he traded in a BMW 5 Series for a Carrera S from Porsche AG, in part because he didn't like Mr. Bangle's new 5 Series.

But Mr. Yokam said the 5 Series is growing on him now that more and more cars from Infiniti, Lexus and other brands are hitting the road with similar styling.

Educated at the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, California, Mr. Bangle worked at Fiat SpA before being named BMW's first non-German head of design, in 1992. His overhaul of BMW's look was part of a bid by the company to accelerate growth after a management shake-up in the late 1990s.

BMW hoped more modern and differentiated designs would pull in younger buyers, but the criticism overshadowed the cars.

For the first few years Mr. Bangle's cars were on the market, it was unclear whether the redesign was working. BMW's sales soared, but largely because it added new models. In the U.S., sales of the 7 Series declined after a good first year.

But last year, BMW tweaked the 7 Series look, and the model's U.S. sales rose 12% to 18,165 cars, according to Autodata Corp. Last year, with the new 3 Series earning favorable reviews, BMW reported its best year in the U.S.

lol, how people like to lie to themselves...

While it's too early to say for sure as far as the general car buying public goes, it's pretty safe to say that as far as most of the auto press and the auto magazines go, the author of this article is wrong....and I say that while having a lot of respect for the Wall Street Journal. I-Drive copies, especially, like Audi's MMR and Infiniti's " Drive Controller " in most cases get the same thumbs-down :thumbdn: reaction as the I-Drive itself. While I realize that some CL members like the I-Drive ( genearch, in particular, comes to mind ) and I respect that, take a poll of almost any 10 car enthusiasts and you will find that probably 8 or 9 of them dislike it.

And even over and above the I-Drive, the Bangle designs show other major weakness as well. Styling, of course, is a matter of personal taste...I won't criticize it is someone likes or dislikes " angel eye " headlights or the Bangle-trunk lid. It's not my part or anyone else's on CL to say whether someone should or should not like a certain styling ( although most people would agree that the Jaguar XK8 or Ford GT are beautiful and the Pontiac Aztek and Toyota Echo are butt-ugly ).

But new BMW weaknesses are not just limited to Bangle-influenced features like styling and I-Drive either. Example: Examine the body sheet metal, interior solidness and quality, general fit-and-finish, and shut the doors on the old 5-series and compare them to the new one....you will see just what I mean. And then of course, there are the new German electronics, which I won't get into again....enough has been discussed about that.

BMW, of course, will sell continue to sell to those who just want a vehicle with the blue-and-white propeller on it in the driveway and really don't care about comparing the new ones to the old ones, but like it or not.....and here is where I think the author blew it........there is no denying that BMW in the last few years has turned off a lot of the people that helped it to become the world's most ubiquitous sports-sedan manufacturer. They are also getting sales now by going the same road that Mercedes travelled and putting insane amounts of power in their high-performance cars.....the new M5 500 HP V10 perhaps being the best example....but these cars are very expensive and few can afford them.

Bangle's work is not postmodern art, it's quintessential fugly.
I am hoping this fad goes away. The sooner the better.

The new Camry is fugly, the new S-class looks much worse than the
previous one. Just because people are copying it does not mean it
is good. :thumbdn:

Bangle should not be praised. It is BMW engineering that should
be praised for being able to survive this grotesque styling.

Like it or not, the Bangle designs are THE influential drive in auto design right now. When the 7 came out, then the 5, then the 3- I was angry, almost disturbed at what they had done to the simpleness of BMW design. Where are the straight lines over sedately flared fenders? Where is the conservatism of design that says "yeah, I'm not going overboard with weirdness because I don't have to?".... But now, after seeing these new designs in the flesh and on the streets for a while now, I have to admit that the new 5 and 3 are good looking distinctive machines. The 7 still seems not quite right, but the 3 in particular looks good (except for the Japanese taillights..). The interior is a bit disappointing, it is all to obvious that the stylists had more say than the ergonomics department - which is not typical BMW. They are not perfect and I still love the looks of my E46, but the Bangle style is quite definitive of the direction of cars to come. And really - it has paid off for Toyota - the new Camry looks great, and the LS460 is a beatiful car - hopefully the next 7 is a rip-off of the 460, because Lexus did the "Bangle style" perfect. The author of this article is right on.

I don't think the LS 460 follows the 7-series 'exactly' by a long shot. It has its own unique design, influenced by the LF-S, except for the toned-down Bangle butt.

That said, I think the L-Finesse philosophy of 'avoiding exaggeration' is a critique of Bangle in particular, and the refinement of the new Lexus designs are the antithesis of Bangle's flame styling.

I don't think the LS 460 follows the 7-series 'exactly' by a long shot. It has its own unique design, influenced by the LF-S, except for the toned-down Bangle butt.

That said, I think the L-Finesse philosophy of 'avoiding exaggeration' is a critique of Bangle in particular, and the refinement of the new Lexus designs are the antithesis of Bangle's flame styling.
spot on... and plus, toyota has its own "flame surfacing" before bangle...

With other car makers following the course Mr. Bangle set, some of his critics are starting to come around, especially now that the new 3 Series sedan has been launched to favorable reviews. The car, which is BMW's top-selling model and was redesigned last year, has a look related to that of the 7 Series, but with less-curvaceous headlights and taillights and fewer sharp creases and contours.

For some customers, the toned-down, modernist look of the 3 Series and the fact that more and more cars are adopting similar designs have made Mr. Bangle's work less jarring.

"The new 3 Series has actually tempered some of my animosity toward Mr. Bangle," .
This is more like BMW PR. If it's really praise for Bangle, then BMW wouldn't have felt the need to tone down the new 3 series. In fact the new 3 series is "de-Bangle-ized ", much like some of the makes that are said to have followed the Bangle set.

This is more like BMW PR. If it's really praise for Bangle, then BMW wouldn't have felt the need to tone down the new 3 series. In fact the new 3 series is "de-Bangle-ized ", much like some of the makes that are said to have followed the Bangle set.
indeed. And 3 series look good, until that horrible plain back with Hyundai H1 interchangable rear lights (i swear).

Bangle design:
- 7 series - complete mess. Looks expensive while move, yet when it is still, it looks like complete mess of shapes.
- 5 series - not that bad looking car, just not beautiful. It has an strong design that is powerful but again not beautiful.
- 6 series - completly awesome from front, you simply want to move away from its way when you see it in back mirror. Once again, back is horrible on what could have been one of the strongest designs of this decade.
- 3 series - toned down but still powerful, until you reach its back, with korean back lights. Simply looks way too cheap for such fine car.
-Z4 - i actually like its design a lot. Flame surfacing works good on this car.

Overall, new MB cars look a lot better these days than BMW's. Remember the 90's when MB's were toned down bulky shapes and BMW's were beautiful?

This is more like BMW PR. If it's really praise for Bangle, then BMW wouldn't have felt the need to tone down the new 3 series. In fact the new 3 series is "de-Bangle-ized ", much like some of the makes that are said to have followed the Bangle set.
with that being said , its still a bangle design. i personally like his designs, but lets be real, who really hits the bullseye on the first try. Except lexus, which would be everyones answer

with that being said , its still a bangle design.
Not really, depending on how you define what's a real Bangle design. I' ve heard he was" kicked up", promoted last year to oversee design for all brands and given a seat on the board. His assistant, Adrian Van Hooydonk, was put in charge of the BMW-brand design.

Bangle was already in the BMW design team for the previous 3 series(E46), but that's not a typical Bangle design. BMW execs asked to tone down the design for the new 3, so it's no longer the direction Bangle originally intend to go, like he did with the 7, 5 & Z4 etc.

lol, how people like to lie to themselves...

I agree.

I get sick and tired of hearing Bangle get praise or recognition.

Bangle DID NOT come up with the "Bangle Butt"!

The raised trunk which Bangle is credited for appeared on several other cars years before the Bangle 7 Series came out. Cars like the Chrysler Cirrus had a raised trunk.

I wonder who and how much gets paid in the media to give Bangle so much undeserved recognition.

Not really, depending on how you define what's a real Bangle design. I' ve heard he was" kicked up", promoted last year to oversee design for all brands and given a seat on the board. His assistant, Adrian Van Hooydonk, was put in charge of the BMW-brand design.

Bangle was already in the BMW design team for the previous 3 series(E46), but that's not a typical Bangle design. BMW execs asked to tone down the design for the new 3, so it's no longer the direction Bangle originally intend to go, like he did with the 7, 5 & Z4 etc.
i see your point

I agree.

I get sick and tired of hearing Bangle get praise or recognition.

.


i wouldnt call it praise b/c most ppl didnt like it

Like I've said and I'll say it again. Hopping in the car and expecting to like the i-Drive is unrealistic. Spend a while getting used to your environment, use the i-Drive for a few days and you will likely have a far different opinion. ]

OK. I understand what you are saying. You feel that the more time one spends with I-Drive, MMR, and similiar devices, the more that he / she will like it. There is mixed opinon on this. Some people DO get used to it. Some don't. Several magazines that have given new BMW's 12-month long Four-Seasons tests ( driving it day in and day out ) are also divided on it. I'm glad for your sake though that you DO like yours, though.......new BMW's are not cheap and it is good that you are satisfied with your purchase. :thumbup:

I think it's time to rest this subject about the Bangle designs. The public has spoken with more 7 series sales than any other previous 7 model. The 6 series is winning hearts everywhere. Style preferences are subjective but obviously, a great many people like what BMW is doing. Bangle probably had little to do with the idrive, probably some whipper snapper engineer is responsible for that. Probably blame Bangle for signing off on it. Bottom line is it doen't look like BMW sales are in decline and several other marques are copying the Bangle butt. Enough said.

Does anyone even know how Chris Bangle got his way to destroy BMWs beautiful cars?

The head designer for BMW (whom gave us ALL the classics of the 80s and 90s), well he didn't like his son too much. To make a long story short, he murdered his son and well, went to prison.

This opened the door for Bangle to just fudge up the current BMW line.

I am going to look for the article to scan for everyone.

I will say, that is these cars WERE NOT BADGED BMWS, they would sit and rust on car lots. This badge is so powerful, people will buy them pretty much no matter what they look like.

The thing I am finding is, all the previous BMW owners don't like the new cars looks inside and out. BMW has attracted many NEW owners with their new style, as they like the new BMWs and thought all BMWs with the 1 style, 3 size look, was bland.

Overall, Bangle gets credit for taking BMW stylistically off the chart! Outside teh M-1, BMW has never looked so different. He broke their mold and basically safe styling. And BMWs still look like BMWs, double kidney grill, the hoffmeister kink, and now the backpack trunks.

Its not like they are not selling these cars, they still sell like hotcakes

I think it's time to rest this subject about the Bangle designs. The public has spoken with more 7 series sales than any other previous 7 model. The 6 series is winning hearts everywhere. Style preferences are subjective but obviously, a great many people like what BMW is doing. Bangle probably had little to do with the idrive, probably some whipper snapper engineer is responsible for that. Probably blame Bangle for signing off on it. Bottom line is it doen't look like BMW sales are in decline and several other marques are copying the Bangle butt. Enough said.
while 7 series sold more than old, it is not saying much. It sold less than LS or S class, which is important measurments. Do you see 5 series or 3 series selling less than GS, IS, C class or E class in the USA? Nope.

The head designer for BMW (whom gave us ALL the classics of the 80s and 90s), well he didn't like his son too much. To make a long story short, he murdered his son and well, went to prison.


Are you serious? I was not aware of that...or maybe just forgot. I know there is sometimes corruption in the auto industry, but this would be an extreme case.

Like I've said and I'll say it again. Hopping in the car and expecting to like the i-Drive is unrealistic. Spend a while getting used to your environment, use the i-Drive for a few days and you will likely have a far different opinion. Get back to me when you can dial any entry from your phone book, control every feature of your NAV system while you are moving by using i-Drive or voice commands (without remembering silly key presses and/or cutting wires)

Also, when you can change lighting, vent and unlock settings without visiting the dealer.

IMHO The new LS460 is a major ripoff of the E60 (side profile) and E65 (rear profile) I still appreciate Lexus, but I'm not blinded like many here...

http://www.thinkdifferent.com.au/Home/ThinkDif.jpg
we are all blinded, errr influenced by what we like. I might be blinded by Toyota and I admit it, at the same time, you are blinded by BMW.

Does anyone even know how Chris Bangle got his way to destroy BMWs beautiful cars?

The head designer for BMW (whom gave us ALL the classics of the 80s and 90s), well he didn't like his son too much. To make a long story short, he murdered his son and well, went to prison.

This opened the door for Bangle to just fudge up the current BMW line.

I am going to look for the article to scan for everyone.

I will say, that is these cars WERE NOT BADGED BMWS, they would sit and rust on car lots. This badge is so powerful, people will buy them pretty much no matter what they look like.

The thing I am finding is, all the previous BMW owners don't like the new cars looks inside and out. BMW has attracted many NEW owners with their new style, as they like the new BMWs and thought all BMWs with the 1 style, 3 size look, was bland.

Overall, Bangle gets credit for taking BMW stylistically off the chart! Outside teh M-1, BMW has never looked so different. He broke their mold and basically safe styling. And BMWs still look like BMWs, double kidney grill, the hoffmeister kink, and now the backpack trunks.

Its not like they are not selling these cars, they still sell like hotcakes
i like how you put it 1sick, i always had my eye on a 7 series when i got my first car.I loved the reclining backseats and my first choice was a 755 i think(is that even a model) but that fell through so i ended up getting a 91 ls and i haven t looked back since, but i was blown away by the complete redesign of the 7 and I love it, bangle butt and all, plus i see them all over the place in NYC

I can't stand the way BMW's have looked in recent years. I used to lust after them now they are an eye sore to me. I even shun cars that incorporate similar design features, like the Acura TL, that body crease the runs from the front of the car to the back :egads: .

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/acura/tl/100449885/photogallery.html?pg_type=Sedan&imgsrc=%2Fpictures%2FVEHICLE%2F2004%2FAcura%2F1001 97752%2F024655-T.jpg

Are you serious? I was not aware of that...or maybe just forgot. I know there is sometimes corruption in the auto industry, but this would be an extreme case.
this is still on my 2 do list. I am going to post the scan. Its very sad :sad:

I can't stand the way BMW's have looked in recent years. I used to lust after them now they are an eye sore to me. I even shun cars that incorporate similar design features, like the Acura TL, that body crease the runs from the front of the car to the back :egads: .

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/acura/tl/100449885/photogallery.html?pg_type=Sedan&imgsrc=%2Fpictures%2FVEHICLE%2F2004%2FAcura%2F1001 97752%2F024655-T.jpg
so i guess the ls460 is on your list also :D

I think it's time to rest this subject about the Bangle designs. The public has spoken with more 7 series sales than any other previous 7 model. The 6 series is winning hearts everywhere. Style preferences are subjective but obviously, a great many people like what BMW is doing. Bangle probably had little to do with the idrive, probably some whipper snapper engineer is responsible for that. Probably blame Bangle for signing off on it. Bottom line is it doen't look like BMW sales are in decline and several other marques are copying the Bangle butt. Enough said.

I can agree. When the 7 first came out I was dismayed. I too jumped on the hate Bangle badwagon because I loved the way BMWs looked before. When the 5 came out I thought it looked ugly since I thought the E39 was one of the nicest BMWs out there period. Now, I still think the 5 is a little odd, but not ugly and I personally would drive one. It has grown on my a bit especially when modified. The upgraded 7 over all looks very nice. The trunk area is still a bit bothersome for me, but over all the new 5 and 7 cars are great that I can overlook the trunk area when viewing the entire car. The 6 is simply awsome. I also really like the E90 3 series much more than even the E46 now.

And this is coming from? An armchair quarterback with a pile of magazines? I have personally owned more Lexus vehicles and will likely own more than you will ever own. I laugh at the guys that sit back and profess their expertise from what they read in magazines or the internet. :sad:

I'm a Lexus owner, but I have an open mind to other vehicles, it's not all about the kool-aid
lol. your favorite quote about other cars used to be "blah blah blah, its not a lexus" haha. and now that u own one of those bangled up abominations you tell others to open their minds? haha. like 1sick said, if that roundel wasnt there theyd be rusting in dealer lots. pontiac might as well wholesale their azteks to bmw and have them rebadged. you could add that to your stable. :D

Come on, guys....we may all not agree with genearch's views on the new BMW's and I-Drive ( I certainly don't ) ....but even if we disagree with him, let's at least show him some respect as a moderator. I expect some courtesy from people even if they disagree with me....which they sometimes do......and I try to return it to others as well.

Come on, guys....we may all not agree with genearch's views on the new BMW's and I-Drive ( I certainly don't ) ....but even if we disagree with him, let's at least show him some respect as a moderator. I expect some courtesy from people even if they disagree with me....which they sometimes do......and I try to return it to others as well.
my first search of this gene guy came up with this
this is what i was referring toa about his attitude.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90370&highlight=lexus
moderator or whatever i think its funny how now he bashes on lexus and thinks bmw is god. lol.
so why cant we say we think the bmw's are ugly just cause this moderator has one. haha.
ok gene, your 6 is pretty man. and the i drive is the smartest thing ever invented :D
btw im not usually into bashing but im just giving some of his usual attitude right back. holla!

my first search of this gene guy came up with this
this is what i was referring toa about his attitude.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90370&highlight=lexus
moderator or whatever i think its funny how now he bashes on lexus and thinks bmw is god. lol.
so why cant we say we think the bmw's are ugly just cause this moderator has one. haha.
ok gene, your 6 is pretty man. and the i drive is the smartest thing ever invented :D
btw im not usually into bashing but im just giving some of his usual attitude right back. holla!


Not taking sides, but if you read further, he was bashing MB as well (poor dealership experience, etc). Gene was probably looking at the chart and noticed that BMw is above the mark of MB for reliability and the standard as well.

to go with this thread...I would say I prefer the e39 5 series....the new 5, 6, and 7 have all grown on me, and I would definitely consider one of each for the stable (after I get my next sports car)

does the 650 cost over 100k?

holla... :sad:
:) guess you wouldnt understand but its ok. i assume youre a bit older.
anyway, its all good man. i just found it amusing how your whole "lexus is god" attitude has changed over to bmw. thats all.
and like i said that was the first search i found. maybe you guys can do a search on gene and "well it not a lexus" or now "well its no bmw"
peace :p