What do you guys think - will it be the 3.5 from ES with 272 ponies or the sweet 3.5 from the IS with 305 ponies?

Also, what was the point for Lexus to even make the current 3.0 V6 in the GS300 - it is not found in any other model, and it's lifespan was relatively short. It doesn't seem like it will see the daylight in any fugure models. IMO they should have just kept the old I6.

obviously it is 306hp with dual injection.... 3.0 is used in plenty of other models in Japan (Crown). 3.0 was put in because 3.5 was not available at that time...

Keep old I6? lol.

Are the engines in the new ES and IS the same with different tuning/intake/exhausts?

Anyway, I think Lexus offered the 3.0 V6 in the 3rd gen GS300 because they didn't have the 4.6 ready for the V8 model and didn't want to crush sales of the GS430 entirely with a GS350. Why bother buying a 300HP GS430 if a 300HP (or thereabouts) GS350 is available for $5-8K less?

But the GS350 can come out with the GS450h and GS460 and it will be more spread out.

As for using the old I6, I doubt they wanted to do that development making it FIT, working with new transmission, getting it certified, weight considerations, etc.

Are the engines in the new ES and IS the same with different tuning/intake/exhausts?

Anyway, I think Lexus offered the 3.0 V6 in the 3rd gen GS300 because they didn't have the 4.6 ready for the V8 model and didn't want to crush sales of the GS430 entirely with a GS350. Why bother buying a 300HP GS430 if a 300HP (or thereabouts) GS350 is available for $5-8K less?

But the GS350 can come out with the GS450h and GS460 and it will be more spread out.


Yeah, I too think its going to be the 3.5 from the IS, since the GS has never shared the engine with ES/RX, even though the displacement was the same and power output was close. However I think the engine will be detuned to maybe 290 or so HP and made smoother and more quiet.


As for using the old I6, I doubt they wanted to do that development making it FIT, working with new transmission, getting it certified, weight considerations, etc.

Great point! :thumbup: :thumbup:

i thought the two v6 are of different series, but i could be wrong

however, obviously, it has to be the 306hp engine that's in the is350. the one in the es350, if anything, is more fuel economy friendly, geared more towards smoothness than performance

i thought the two v6 are of different series, but i could be wrong

however, obviously, it has to be the 306hp engine that's in the is350. the one in the es350, if anything, is more fuel economy friendly, geared more towards smoothness than performance
You are correct sir. They are two different 3.5 V6s. The ES getting the IS's V6 would be just stupid amounts of oversteer.

You are correct sir. They are two different 3.5 V6s. The ES getting the IS's V6 would be just stupid amounts of oversteer.

You mean torque steer?

The gs350 in japan uses the IS 3.5 v6 i just cant find 0-60 performance for the car.

The gs350 in japan uses the IS 3.5 v6 i just cant find 0-60 performance for the car.Yep, again there's no mystery surrounding the GS350 besides perhaps a 0-60 time. We will get what Japan gets in the GS350 (sans some cool electronic gadgets:cry: ), the 2GR-FSE.

how much more does the GS weigh over an IS, im gonna estimate a 0-60 of like 5.9ish since the IS is around 5.4ish

how much more does the GS weigh over an IS, im gonna estimate a 0-60 of like 5.9ish since the IS is around 5.4ish

Not a chance, the 430 is 5.9ish with way more torque, but then it weights more :)

By the way, if the 460 gets into 4 second territory, I'm gonna crap my pants.

how much more does the GS weigh over an IS, im gonna estimate a 0-60 of like 5.9ish since the IS is around 5.4ish
According to specs. at lexus.jp,

GS350 weighs 40 kg (88 lb.) more than the IS350.
GS350 AWD weighs 90 kg.(198 lb.) more than the GS350 RWD

IS350 : hp = 318 ps, torque = 380 Nm.
GS350 : hp = 315 ps, torque = 377 Nm.

Not a chance, the 430 is 5.9ish with way more torque, but then it weights more :)Actually, the 430 has an official 0-60mph time of 5.7s.

Now regarding the 0-60mph time for the GS350, here's my calculation:

FACTS
1. The IS250's curb weight = 3,435lbs.
2. The IS350's curb weight = 3,527lbs.
3. The GS300's curb weight = 3,536 lbs.
4. The IS350 has an official 0-60mph time of 5.3s.

ASSUMPTIONS
1. The weight difference between the IS350 and the IS250 is solely due to the difference in engine displacements (i.e. port injectors and VDIM-related mechanism weigh nothing).
2. The GS350 will have the same horsepower output as the IS350 (even though according to lexus.jp the GS350 produces 3ps less than the IS350).
3. Torque remains FLAT throughout the accelerations (obviously this isn't true, but the GR engines have a torque curve broad and flat enough to make this assumption OK for a rough estimate). This also means no gear change is taken into account.

CALCULATIONS
1. Each liter of displacement in the GR-series engine weighs (IS350's weight - IS250's weight) / (IS350's displacement - IS250's displacement) = (3,527lbs. - 3,435lbs.) / (3.5L - 2.5L) = 92lbs./L
2. From 1., GS350's weight = GS300's weight + 0.5L's worth of weight of the GR-series engines = 3,536lbs. + 0.5L x 92lbs./L = 3,582lbs.
3. Since weight is inversely proportional to acceleration (F = ma), and acceleration is inversely proportional to acceleration time given the same target velocity (v = at), weight is proportional to acceleration time; therefore, the 0-60mph accerlation time for the GS350 = IS350's accleration time x (GS350's weight / IS350's weight) = 5.3s x (3,582lbs. / 3,527lbs.) =~ 5.38s =~ 5.4s

This actually makes sense since the GS350 will be barely heavier than the IS350 (heck the GS300 is only 9lbs. heavier than the IS350) and the GS430 doesn't have a torque curve nearly as flat as the 3.5L's, so in terms of 0-60 time the GS350 can win GS430 easily with more horsepower.

Remember you heard it here first.;):p

According to specs. at lexus.jp,

GS350 weighs 40 kg (88 lb.) more than the IS350.Haha, you're right. I forgot the weight of the GS350 vs. the IS350 can already be looked up at lexus.jp.

So based on this new, more precise fact that the GS350 weighs 88lbs. more than the IS350, the American curb weight of the GS350 should be 3,527lbs. + 88lbs. = 3,615lbs. instead. And therefore the acceleration time of the GS350 should become 5.3s x (3,615lbs. / 3,527lbs.) =~ 5.43s, still around 5.4s after round-off.:)

I'd say 5.4 is a bit too optimistic, the GS will not have such agressive throttle responce and tranny as the IS, honestly I doubt it will even make it into 5's. How fast are M35 and RL running anyway?

Also, what was the point for Lexus to even make the current 3.0 V6 in the GS300 - it is not found in any other model, and it's lifespan was relatively short. It doesn't seem like it will see the daylight in any fugure models. IMO they should have just kept the old I6.


I believe there was a post somewhere which stated that the IS250 will become IS300 <with that 3.0 v6 > after everyone gets their new engines

I'd say 5.4 is a bit too optimistic, the GS will not have such agressive throttle responce and tranny as the IS, honestly I doubt it will even make it into 5's. How fast are M35 and RL running anyway?Hmm the throttle response doesn't matter since all test drivers obtain their optimal acceleration numbers by launching cars while revved within the power band, and it's WOT from then on. Now the tranny does matter, but you know what, the GS300 has identical gear ratios to the IS250's 3.538 / 2.060 / 1.404 / 1.000 / 0.713 / 0.582, so it won't be surprising that the GS350 shares exactly the same gear ratios with the IS350's 3.520 / 2.042 / 1.400 / 1.000 / 0.716 / 0.586.

Given the above, I still think I have reasons to be optimistic.:p

If the GS350 can do 5.5 or even 5.6 sec. 0-60, then the GS460 better be able to achieve at least 4.9 sec. :p

The best estimate of the GS350 0-60 performance can be based off the latests performace data from the 268HP Avalon that weigh's 3560lbs for the XLS and 3600lbs of the Limited. I don't know which model was tested in that review posted elsewhere, but the Avalon does a 0-60 in 6.2 seeconds with FWD. Surely a RWD GS350 close weight about the same making 38 more HP can shave off at least 0.3 seconds right?

The best estimate of the GS350 0-60 performance can be based off the latests performace data from the 268HP Avalon that weigh's 3560lbs for the XLS and 3600lbs of the Limited. I don't know which model was tested in that review posted elsewhere, but the Avalon does a 0-60 in 6.2 seeconds with FWD. Surely a RWD GS350 close weight about the same making 38 more HP can shave off at least 0.3 seconds right?Hmm and why would Avalon, with a different drivetrain layout, different number of gears, different gear ratios (4.235 / 2.360 / 1.517 / 1.047 / 0.756) and a quite different torque curve be a better comparison basis than the IS350, which is basically just a shortened GS350, with just about everything else being constant and only the weight being the variable?

Oh by the way, my 2gs430 rapes current avalon easily

Hmm and why would Avalon, with a different drivetrain layout, different number of gears, and a quite different torque curve be a better comparison basis than the IS350, which is basically just a shortened GS350, with just about everything else being constant and only the weight being the variable?


You are right. I totally forgot about the gear ratio. I was just basing it off the power to weight. :egads:

OK...after I cooled off a bit and looked back, I realized that gear changes really can't be disregarded, as the time it takes to make a shift will remain the same regardless of horsepower increases, so the acceleration time need to be subtracted by the shift time (1x or 2x, depending on whether the car reaches 60mph on the 2nd gear or the 3rd) first before it can be considered linearly proportional to the car's weight.

So by fuzzy math I say the final number should be closer to 5.5s instead.:D

Why don't you do some 0-60 estimations for the GS460 as well ? ;) making some assumptions about it's weight, hp ..380 ? 388 ? 400 ? :eek2: :p

If the GS350 can do 5.5 or even 5.6 sec. 0-60, then the GS460 better be able to achieve at least 4.9 sec. :pHmm if the 4000+lbs. E39 M5 can accelerate from 0-60mph in 4.7s with 400hp, I say 4.9s won't be too far off for the lighter GS460 with 380hp (hopefully 390hp?).:p

By the way, if the 460 gets into 4 second territory, I'm gonna crap my pants.

would be nice, but i am already very happy if the car can do low 5 just like the is350. that probably make more sense, with the gs350 doing mid to high 5. anything sub 5? leave it to the performance version (if it comes, hahah)

would be nice, but i am already very happy if the car can do low 5 just like the is350. that probably make more sense, with the gs350 doing mid to high 5. anything sub 5? leave it to the performance version (if it comes, hahah)
The standard for any performance division cars now should be 4.5 sec at most, sub 4 sec.even better :p

Why don't you do some 0-60 estimations for the GS460 as well ? ;) making some assumptions about it's weight, hp ..380 ? 388 ? 400 ? :eek2: :pHaha, let's wait till the official numbers for the LS460 are out and we'll have a more credible basis to guestimate the GS460's.:p

Hopefully when Lexus says <5.5 for the LS460 they really mean something like 5.1s. :eek2:

The standard for any performance division cars now should be 4.5 sec at most, sub 4 sec.even better :p

yup, that's why i said i would be surprised if the gs460 enters the sub 5 category :)

Does anyone know for a fact that gearing is the same on the GS350 and IS350... that could make a marked difference in the 0-60 and 1/4 times...

Actually, the 430 has an official 0-60mph time of 5.7s.

Now regarding the 0-60mph time for the GS350, here's my calculation:

FACTS
1. The IS250's curb weight = 3,435lbs.
2. The IS350's curb weight = 3,527lbs.
3. The GS300's curb weight = 3,536 lbs.
4. The IS350 has an official 0-60mph time of 5.3s.

ASSUMPTIONS
1. The weight difference between the IS350 and the IS250 is solely due to the difference in engine displacements (i.e. port injectors and VDIM-related mechanism weigh nothing).
2. The GS350 will have the same horsepower output as the IS350 (even though according to lexus.jp the GS350 produces 3ps less than the IS350).
3. Torque remains FLAT throughout the accelerations (obviously this isn't true, but the GR engines have a torque curve broad and flat enough to make this assumption OK for a rough estimate). This also means no gear change is taken into account.

CALCULATIONS
1. Each liter of displacement in the GR-series engine weighs (IS350's weight - IS250's weight) / (IS350's displacement - IS250's displacement) = (3,527lbs. - 3,435lbs.) / (3.5L - 2.5L) = 92lbs./L
2. From 1., GS350's weight = GS300's weight + 0.5L's worth of weight of the GR-series engines = 3,536lbs. + 0.5L x 92lbs./L = 3,582lbs.
3. Since weight is inversely proportional to acceleration (F = ma), and acceleration is inversely proportional to acceleration time given the same target velocity (v = at), weight is proportional to acceleration time; therefore, the 0-60mph accerlation time for the GS350 = IS350's accleration time x (GS350's weight / IS350's weight) = 5.3s x (3,582lbs. / 3,527lbs.) =~ 5.38s =~ 5.4s

This actually makes sense since the GS350 will be barely heavier than the IS350 (heck the GS300 is only 9lbs. heavier than the IS350) and the GS430 doesn't have a torque curve nearly as flat as the 3.5L's, so in terms of 0-60 time the GS350 can win GS430 easily with more horsepower.

Remember you heard it here first.;):p

Dude that was freaking beautiful. I mean beautiful.

Is the gearing the same in both cars though?

Does anyone know for a fact that gearing is the same on the GS350 and IS350... that could make a marked difference in the 0-60 and 1/4 times...Dude that was freaking beautiful. I mean beautiful.

Is the gearing the same in both cars though?
Haha thanks, I should've looked it up before I even made the calculation post. It's all there in lexus.jp's spec page for the GS350. So the answer is yes, the gear ratios are indeed identical to those of the IS350.:)
http://lexus.jp/models/gs/spec/spec.html (see lower right of the table)

5.4s... wow... if that ends up being true, thats one heckuva bargain for slightly under $50,000. The BMW 550i which is about $10,000 more is no faster than that (0-60).

0-60 for the GS350...

Depends on who you ask.

C&D will say 5.4s
MT and R&T will say 5.9s
Edmunds and CR will say 6.3s

0-60 for the GS350...

Depends on who you ask.

C&D will say 5.4s
MT and R&T will say 5.9s
Edmunds and CR will say 6.3s

That had me rolling. :D

GS350 owners will say 4.9 :D BMW 535 owners will say 8.9 :D

yup, that's why i said i would be surprised if the gs460 enters the sub 5 category :)
:uh: :confused:

Another Q : 6 speed or 8 speed tranny for the GS460 initially ?

Haha thanks, I should've looked it up before I even made the calculation post. It's all there in lexus.jp's spec page for the GS350. So the answer is yes, the gear ratios are indeed identical to those of the IS350.:)
http://lexus.jp/models/gs/spec/spec.html (see lower right of the table)
Yes, I think mid 5 is realistic, I really don't see why the GS350 cannot be within 0.2 or 0.3 sec. of the IS350 for 0-60 if gear ratios & hp are the same if the weight difference is only 88 lb. . . . . . put 1Sick in an IS350 & Henry in a GS350 & the race will be dead even :p :D ;)

Yes, I think mid 5 is realistic, I really don't see why the GS350 cannot be within 0.2 or 0.3 sec. of the IS350 for 0-60 if gear ratios & hp are the same if the weight difference is only 88 lb. . . . . . put 1Sick in an IS350 & Henry in a GS350 & the race will be dead even :p :D ;)
i smell a GS 430 vs GS 350 poll! :woot:

The one on IS350.

Yes, I think mid 5 is realistic, I really don't see why the GS350 cannot be within 0.2 or 0.3 sec. of the IS350 for 0-60 if gear ratios & hp are the same if the weight difference is only 88 lb. . . . . . put 1Sick in an IS350 & Henry in a GS350 & the race will be dead even :p :D ;)
hahhaa, come on, i am just a ***** cat.... i can't win mike on the race :D but with the added weight on mike, maybe i will have a slight chance, hahaa......

after reading all the analysis, mid 5 is indeed very possible. that would be sweet!!!!!! in that case, the gs460 better do low 5 :D