BMW to start serial output of hydrogen-powered car

Tue Mar 14, 1:29 PM ET

BMW (BMWG.DE) intends to start serial production of a hydrogen-burning 7-Series executive car within two years, the world's largest premium automaker said on Tuesday.

"We will present such a vehicle to the public in less than two years," a spokesman said, confirming media reports. BMW had said last year its hydrogen-fuelled cars, which emit only water vapour, would make their debut in 2010.

BMW intends to build a few hundred such cars at first. They will be able to switch between burning standard gasoline and hydrogen so that drivers will not be left stranded while the infrastructure to deliver hydrogen is built up.

The space that two fuel tanks take up means only the 7-Series will offer the hydrogen package at first. BMW's long-term goal is to offer hydrogen motors in all its cars.

BMW unveiled the world's fastest hydrogen-powered car at the 2004 Paris auto show. Dubbed the H2R, it can exceed 300 kilometres (185 miles) per hour and reaches 100 km per hour from a standing start in around six seconds.

While BMW is developing fuel-cell driven cars as well, it says it is concentrating on the combustion engine because the sum total of its features and characteristics offers the largest number of advantages and benefits all in one.

BMW to start serial output of hydrogen-powered car

Tue Mar 14, 1:29 PM ET

BMW (BMWG.DE) intends to start serial production of a hydrogen-burning 7-Series executive car within two years, the world's largest premium automaker said on Tuesday.

"We will present such a vehicle to the public in less than two years," a spokesman said, confirming media reports. BMW had said last year its hydrogen-fuelled cars, which emit only water vapour, would make their debut in 2010.

BMW intends to build a few hundred such cars at first. They will be able to switch between burning standard gasoline and hydrogen so that drivers will not be left stranded while the infrastructure to deliver hydrogen is built up.

The space that two fuel tanks take up means only the 7-Series will offer the hydrogen package at first. BMW's long-term goal is to offer hydrogen motors in all its cars.

BMW unveiled the world's fastest hydrogen-powered car at the 2004 Paris auto show. Dubbed the H2R, it can exceed 300 kilometres (185 miles) per hour and reaches 100 km per hour from a standing start in around six seconds.

While BMW is developing fuel-cell driven cars as well, it says it is concentrating on the combustion engine because the sum total of its features and characteristics offers the largest number of advantages and benefits all in one.

I applaud any effort to increase efficiency and clean air. :thumbup: :thumbup:

That's great news, BMW is innovating with hydrogen.

The problem is that infrastructure is currently extremely limited for hydrogen cars. Infrastructure needs to be there first before the cars can be sold in reasonable amounts.

That's great news, BMW is innovating with hydrogen.

The problem is that infrastructure is currently extremely limited for hydrogen cars. Infrastructure needs to be there first before the cars can be sold in reasonable amounts.

I'm not entirely familiar with the concept, so how would the world go about doing this?

To me it seems for the past 5 years just about every automaker has been saying that they will have a Hydrogen Powered or Fuel Cell vehicle in production in x amount of years. Technology obviously advances all the time, and I hope that this really happens. :thumbup:

I'm not entirely familiar with the concept, so how would the world go about doing this?

Well for one, hydrogen is a very flammable substance, more so than gasoline. Thus transporting hydrogen is a big problem.

By infrastructure I mean hydrogen refueling stations would have to be common, just like gas stations. In terms of logistics, it's just a lot harder working with hydrogen as a fuel compared to gasoline.

Well for one, hydrogen is a very flammable substance, more so than gasoline. Thus transporting hydrogen is a big problem.

By infrastructure I mean hydrogen refueling stations would have to be common, just like gas stations. In terms of logistics, it's just a lot harder working with hydrogen as a fuel compared to gasoline.

True, but liquid propane gas is dangerous but widely distributed, so it's doable.

What we really need is the Mr. Fusion. :D

True, but liquid propane gas is dangerous but widely distributed, so it's doable.

What we really need is the Mr. Fusion. :D
well i guess it's more about the potential danger when you HIT them?

well i guess it's more about the potential danger when you HIT them?

There's thousands of propane powered cars and busses in operation and I've never heard of an 'explosion' or other bad incident because of it.

the cost to refine pure hydrogen isnt as economical as petroleum sad to say

The whole point is to have the hydrogen extracted from water at the pumping station where you fill up your car I believe. I also saw where someone had invented a solid substance kind of like styrofoam which holds the hydrogen the same way a tank would - anyway they guy who invented it said it can take an impact and will not explode. That was on PBS over a year ago so we're probably way past that point at this time. Interesting stuff.

My only worry is what would happen to the humidity if everyone switched to hydrogen cars? The exhaust is like pure water vapor isn't it?

Well for one, hydrogen is a very flammable substance, more so than gasoline. Thus transporting hydrogen is a big problem.

By infrastructure I mean hydrogen refueling stations would have to be common, just like gas stations. In terms of logistics, it's just a lot harder working with hydrogen as a fuel compared to gasoline.

Ultimately, when you go from gasoline or diesel to hydrogen, you go from a material that is liquid and sold at atmospheric pressure to a gas that is sold at something considerably higher than atmospheric pressure. There are vehicles powered by compressed gas now but you have to wonder if the public at large is ready for this anytime soon. Even in the propane biz, it is a lot more common around here to exchange tanks rather than fill them. Gasoline stations, pumps, nozzles, are all set up to dispense liquids at atmospheric pressure and somebody would have to be willing to spend a fair amount of bucks to configure a station to handle hydrogen - that's part of the infrastructure they are talking about. The plumbing would be quite a bit different. Unless a dyno gas station could somehow be at the end of a hydrogen pipe line, very doubtful, they will most likely store the hydrogen in liquid state and convert it back to gas when refueling. Nothing impossible but a big and costly change.

Who knows, maybe bimmer is right and this is the future. But selling a couple of hundred cars in two years doesn't mean much. Seems like I remember Arnie spouting some fumes about how he wanted Kali to take the lead in hydrogen refueling infrastructure but I haven't seen anything come from it. Possibly the biggest advantage to hybrid is that it is a logical evolution from pure dyno fuel. Obviously, it still relies on dyno fuel where hydrogen does not but I have to believe that this is market hype from bimmer. For all the self admired technology that bimmer and merc have, their recent mindless use of technology to merely supply mostly unusable amounts of excessive hp is pretty out of step with the real world needs. Maybe they don't like playing me too in hybrid (although they are) because Toyota is the leader in that technology. But this one is going to take a lot of work and money to make viable. Mileage per tankful will depend on how much hydrogen they put in and that will be directly related to how much pressure they use. The higher pressure they use, the more hydrogen they carry but all the plumbing and fittings become more expensive and of course the tank gets more expensive, bigger, and heavier. Tough way to go.

The whole point is to have the hydrogen extracted from water at the pumping station where you fill up your car I believe. I also saw where someone had invented a solid substance kind of like styrofoam which holds the hydrogen the same way a tank would - anyway they guy who invented it said it can take an impact and will not explode. That was on PBS over a year ago so we're probably way past that point at this time. Interesting stuff.

My only worry is what would happen to the humidity if everyone switched to hydrogen cars? The exhaust is like pure water vapor isn't it?

The engine will burn the hydrogen with oxygen and make water as a byproduct. We get some water as a byproduct of internal combustion right now. I sincerely doubt that all the autos in the country would make that much water vapor. And it is somewhat self regulating. Water vapor does tend to condense and return to a liquid state.

The reason you tend to get centralized production of materials such as hydrogen are to reduce cost. The amount of energy used converting water to hydrogen and oxygen would probably make it prohibitive. Hard to see Shell rushing to put hydrogen generators in their gas stations because there might be a couple of hundred H2 bimmers breezing around in a year or three.

another PR :-).

One customer walked in today, and said everyone has hybrids now (he said MB, VW, etc). PR works!

:-)

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/03/16/000701.1-lg.jpg
The "Necar 5" hydrogen-powered car


March 16, 2006; Deutsche Welle reported that Germany said Tuesday it would invest 500 million euros ($600 million) over the next decade in developing vehicles powered by hydrogen, which is considered one of the energy hopes of the future.

"We will increase our commitment and our funding by 500 million euros over the next 10 years," Transport Minister Wolfgang Tiefensee said. He was speaking at the opening of a second hydrogen refueling station in Berlin. The German capital's transport authorities have promised to introduce a fleet of 14 hydrogen-powered buses by 2007 in a bid to become the European "capital" for the low-pollution technology.

Federal funding for the development of hydrogen-powered vehicles is to be expanded to other German regions -- such as Hamburg, southern Germany and parts of North Rhine-Westphalia -- in the next few years.

Hydrogen-fueling stations are still few and far betweenHowever, there are several hindrances to the development of hydrogen-powered vehicles, principally the cost of building refueling stations.

Another hurdle is reducing the cost of obtaining hydrogen itself, which has to be extracted from fossil fuels, such as carbon, or from water. "As a fuel for cars, hydrogen technology has a long way to go," Tiefensee said.

Experts from German automaker BMW predict that the cost of hydrogen technology could be reduced to levels affordable for individual consumers by 2015. Even then, basic hydrogen-powered cars would cost up to 3,000 euros (3,600 dollars) more than gasoline models at today's prices.

BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Ford and GM/Opel are the four car manufacturers involved in the Clean Energy Partnership, an international group set up to develop hydrogen power which receives support from the German government.

source : theautochannel