Yea man a lotta the 3rd world countries that we consider out dated.. Still sport some of the newest styles in everything especially cars...
Tommy
retrodrive
03-14-06, 08:49 PM
Rich in Russia do not become rich by being frugal. The financial history of the country does not set that stereotype in today’s millionaire’s minds. Every time I go home, and drive through downtown, it feels like visiting an exotic car show. Not surprisingly, this is what an oil-rich country capital looks like.
What saddens me is that I can draw an analogy to “ghetto rich” mentality in this country. Ever noticed how the poor areas of town have nicest cars around and how rich areas have bunch of old Volvos and American cars? Draw your own conclusions.
P.S. Russia is not a 3rd world country.
LexLaw
03-14-06, 08:51 PM
Russia has more Milionaires than you can imagine. Both new and old money. When the curtain fell alot of things opened up in alot of different ways. Even before that Russians had a panache for flash and wealth put the two together and here we are today. Great Pics. What you guys thought it would be snowcapped mountains with guys guys wearing ugly shealings and fur hats like Nikolai Volkoff circa 1985.
PureDrifter
03-14-06, 09:16 PM
ROFl that Spyker looks tiny compared to the Rolls
xioix
03-14-06, 09:30 PM
I think this is the first time I've ever seen some of those types of cars with ice and snow on it
TheRupp
03-14-06, 09:31 PM
What the heck is that Magnum SUV? I've never seen that before... almost looks like a Cayenne or an X5
bitkahuna
03-14-06, 09:31 PM
Stalin, Marx, and Lenin are rolling over in their graves. :D
The talented and passionate Russian people were kept in an agonizing pressure cooker for 70 years. Finally the lid came off (thanks to Ronald Reagan and the courageous Mikail Gorbachev who realized Russian Communism just didn't work). It's still not a full democracy (Putin's got a pretty tight lid on things still) but the freeing of the economy has been great.
xioix
03-14-06, 09:41 PM
What the heck is that Magnum SUV? I've never seen that before... almost looks like a Cayenne or an X5
It's a Cayenne
BlkGS3
03-14-06, 11:16 PM
You can and always could get anything you want in Russia if you had the money.
rominl
03-14-06, 11:18 PM
very nice. imho though, you find wealthy people everywhere in the world. and of foucrse russia is no exception ;)
jracerlmn
03-14-06, 11:56 PM
nice to see the arms dealers are out in style :D
Richie
03-15-06, 02:13 AM
There was a bit on TV about this yesterday.
In Moscow they have 32 billionaires.
Theres a lot of money over there.
0l33l
03-15-06, 02:40 AM
Nice to see what people do with bribe money :rolleyes:
1SICKLEX
03-15-06, 10:24 AM
Russia is Lexus 2nd largest market, they do very well there. Top Gear had an article of the GS 430 in Russia. You cannot have NAV though, per their governement
GFerg
03-15-06, 10:32 AM
Funny you say that, even though the pics I posted do not have Lexus vehicles as the main subject, you can see in a few of them there are Lexus vehicles in the background. There is a few more pics with them in the background, but I didnt post those.
Och
03-15-06, 10:44 AM
I'm Russian myself, living in NYC since I was 14 (I'm 27 now). What pisses me off about Russia these day is the amount of german cars there. After all, Russia is the country that defeated nazi germany, and never mind Holocaust, the nazis killed far more Russians and other Europeans than Jews, over 20 millions Russians were killed. My grandfather went through the entire war, and went into germany with the occupation forces, and he told me all the horror stories about these people, if you can even call these animals people. And now the Russians are buying cars from BMW and MB, companies that used Russian slave labor during war? That is freaking ridiculous. Personally, I will never spend a penny on any german product. It is a shame how people forget their history.
whoster
03-15-06, 11:05 AM
koreans were raped and pillaged by the japanese TWICE in their history.
i am korean, but my family swears by Toyota.
"all of us on this board are american. Lexus is a japanese carmaker under the wing of Toyota. have you all ridiculous ignoramuses forgotten that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor? "
the above kind of mentality will get you nowhere.
if i had your mentality OCH...i wouldn't even be on this board. Hell, i'd be on a Hyundai forum somewhere banging on about how Hyundai makes the best cars in the world, BAR NONE.
Leets
03-15-06, 11:11 AM
"all of us on this board are american. Lexus is a japanese carmaker under the wing of Toyota. have you all ridiculous ignoramuses forgotten that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor? "
the above kind of mentality will get you nowhere.
It should also be noted that these popular crimes of humanity in history between auto manufacturing countries and their customers took place a couple generations ago... at the nearest point in history.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I really didn't have all that much to do with my grandparents' actions. The real ignorance is blaming someone for actions that occured before they even existed.
4TehNguyen
03-15-06, 11:16 AM
I'm Russian myself, living in NYC since I was 14 (I'm 27 now). What pisses me off about Russia these day is the amount of german cars there. After all, Russia is the country that defeated nazi germany, and never mind Holocaust, the nazis killed far more Russians and other Europeans than Jews, over 20 millions Russians were killed. My grandfather went through the entire war, and went into germany with the occupation forces, and he told me all the horror stories about these people, if you can even call these animals people. And now the Russians are buying cars from BMW and MB, companies that used Russian slave labor during war? That is freaking ridiculous. Personally, I will never spend a penny on any german product. It is a shame how people forget their history.
too bad stalin is responsible for more deaths than hitler during his whole regime, oh guess what the soviets used slave labor also, as well oppressing its own people greatly, wake up this its not 1945 anymore. Dont take all the credit a lot of non russian soldiers died in the war fighting Germany. Stalin is at least Hitlers equal in terms of tyranny and cruelty, in some ways he could surpass Hitler
Och
03-15-06, 11:25 AM
koreans were raped and pillaged by the japanese TWICE in their history.
i am korean, but my family swears by Toyota.
I honestly do not know much about Japan's and Korea's history, so I can't comment on that.
"all of us on this board are american. Lexus is a japanese carmaker under the wing of Toyota. have you all ridiculous ignoramuses forgotten that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor? "
the above kind of mentality will get you nowhere.
Right, but it was a war and the Japanese bombed a military Harbor. I'm not trying to justify their actions, but it's nothing compared to the germans killion innocent women and children. Plus the Japanese paid for their actions dearly, two of their cities got nuked. For all it's worth, germany should've been wiped out of the face of the earth.
Also, if you look at history, the germans were always violent and are guilty of many genocides.
if i had your mentality OCH...i wouldn't even be on this board. Hell, i'd be on a Hyundai forum somewhere banging on about how Hyundai makes the best cars in the world, BAR NONE.
It has nothing to do with banging who makes the best cars in the world, I'm not denying that Porsches are perhaps the best sports cars in the world, but Dr. Porsche was tried as a war criminal. I'm not denying that MB makes some of the best luxury cars in the world, but MB made special cars for Hitler and employeed 100,000 of slave laborers. I'm not denying that BMW makes some great sports sedans, but they used 20,000 of slave laborers and were working of airplance technology that might have changed the outcome of the war if they were successful.
Much to my pleasure Lexus, and recently Infiniti are making cars that are just as good or even better than the german manufacturers. But even if that wasnt the case, I'd drive a freaking geo metro before a mercedes.
spwolf
03-15-06, 11:27 AM
Stalin, Marx, and Lenin are rolling over in their graves. :D
The talented and passionate Russian people were kept in an agonizing pressure cooker for 70 years. Finally the lid came off (thanks to Ronald Reagan and the courageous Mikail Gorbachev who realized Russian Communism just didn't work). It's still not a full democracy (Putin's got a pretty tight lid on things still) but the freeing of the economy has been great.
yeah, it has been great for 0.00001% of now billionares who are now owners of previously huge state owned companies, without actually paying a dime. :-).
Och
03-15-06, 11:31 AM
too bad stalin is responsible for more deaths than hitler during his whole regime, oh guess what the soviets used slave labor also, as well oppressing its own people greatly, wake up this its not 1945 anymore. Dont take all the credit a lot of non russian soldiers died in the war fighting Germany
Thats why the communist party was overthrown, and stalin joined hitler in the ranks of criminals. Would you buy a car that was made by a company that was started by either of these people, and belonged to their grandchildren? Consider that Dr. Porsche is a war criminal just like the other two, yet Porsches are selling left and right.
picus
03-15-06, 11:38 AM
Right, but it was a war and the Japanese bombed a military Harbor. I'm not trying to justify their actions, but it's nothing compared to the germans killion innocent women and children. Plus the Japanese paid for their actions dearly, two of their cities got nuked. For all it's worth, germany should've been wiped out of the face of the earth.
Also, if you look at history, the germans were always violent and are guilty of many genocides.
Normally I don't touch conversations like this online, it's almost always pointless. But I think you need to learn a little more about world history before you jump to conclusions. Japan and the U.S were not at war when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, it was a sneak attack. As a matter of fact although there was an economic embargo against Japan at the time Japanese diplomats were fresh off a visit to the U.S assuring the American government that they didn't want to escalate the situation into a war. And not to nitpick, but more german civilians were killed in WWII by allied bombers than by the two nuclear bombs dropped on Japan. If I'm not mistaken combined casualties in Germany were more than four times higher than in Japan, not that that somehow justifies what either of them did. Just setting things straight.
Also, as un-PC as it might be to say, the holocaust is far from the only genocide ever inflicted on the earth. Countries and civilizations have been commiting acts of genocide for as long the human race has been around, and they still are. Russians have one of the longest standing histories of systematic mass murder, and in their case it's usually their own citizens. Japan has invaded and occupied China and Korea how many times? You can't justify it either way, but before you pontificate it helps to have some perspective.
Edit - sorry for the OT.
On topic - what is the car in the middle in this pic?
Thats why the communist party was overthrown, and stalin joined hitler in the ranks of criminals. Would you buy a car that was made by a company that was started by either of these people, and belonged to their grandchildren? Consider that Dr. Porsche is a war criminal just like the other two, yet Porsches are selling left and right.
I dont remember Communism being overthrown, USSR just bankrupted itself and collapsed its own economy at the end of the Cold War. No one walked in and "overthrew" them, they thew in the towel
USSR was just as guilty as germany and japan however USSR committed crimes on a much grander scale than both countries combined, I dont see how you can continue to bag germany and japan for genocides and war crimes
The two A-bombs saved more lives than you can imagine at the expense of several hundred thousand civilians by preventing a invasion of mainland japan, which wouldve had casualties of biblical proportions.
Och
03-15-06, 12:04 PM
I dont remember Communism being overthrown, USSR just bankrupted itself and collapsed its own economy at the end of the Cold War. No one walked in and "overthrew" them, they thew in the towel
That is not exactly so, but I'm not up for this discussion now.
USSR was just as guilty as germany and japan however USSR committed crimes on a much grander scale than both countries combined, I dont see how you can continue to bag germany and japan for genocides and war crimes
AFAIK, the USSR is only guilty to the USSR, they never commited genocides in other countries. So I don't see how you can even compare USSR's crimes to germany's.
The two A-bombs saved more lives than you can imagine at the expense of several hundred thousand civilians by preventing a invasion of mainland japan, which wouldve had casualties of biblical proportions.
Yeah, and several hundred thousand civilians is some price to pay, wont you say?
BlkGS3
03-15-06, 01:24 PM
Car Chat = Debate Forum?
Oh and Och, why are you so paranoid? The Germans are not attacking the Russians any time soon, you can by your self a Benz :p
spwolf
03-15-06, 01:34 PM
Normally I don't touch conversations like this online, it's almost always pointless. But I think you need to learn a little more about world history before you jump to conclusions. Japan and the U.S were not at war when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, it was a sneak attack. As a matter of fact although there was an economic embargo against Japan at the time Japanese diplomats were fresh off a visit to the U.S assuring the American government that they didn't want to escalate the situation into a war. And not to nitpick, but more german civilians were killed in WWII by allied bombers than by the two nuclear bombs dropped on Japan. If I'm not mistaken combined casualties in Germany were more than four times higher than in Japan, not that that somehow justifies what either of them did. Just setting things straight.
Also, as un-PC as it might be to say, the holocaust is far from the only genocide ever inflicted on the earth. Countries and civilizations have been commiting acts of genocide for as long the human race has been around, and they still are. Russians have one of the longest standing histories of systematic mass murder, and in their case it's usually their own citizens. Japan has invaded and occupied China and Korea how many times? You can't justify it either way, but before you pontificate it helps to have some perspective.
Edit - sorry for the OT.
On topic - what is the car in the middle in this pic?
http://picserv.pixio.nl/~picserver/i.php?/76A4E2B7XL2U0VR5/QSXXD8J85DB3/JPEG/1141997091//04p9
forget everything else, but holocaust was the biggest genocide in the world's history. Nobody killed so many people before systematically as germans did.
None of the big nations are guilt free when it comes to imperialism and killing, but nobody ever did anything of the scale of holocaust.
definetly not for this forum.
marshmallo
03-15-06, 02:03 PM
Russia is Lexus 2nd largest market, they do very well there. Top Gear had an article of the GS 430 in Russia. You cannot have NAV though, per their governement
I was quite surprised by this fact, but I guess it makes a lot of sense, since
Lexus has only recently launched in Japan and has struggled to make
inroads in Europe.
I think this will probably change, since the GS and IS should be a better
fit for the European/Russian market (especially the IS250, which really
impressed me in my test drive) :thumbup:
picus
03-15-06, 02:11 PM
forget everything else, but holocaust was the biggest genocide in the world's history. Nobody killed so many people before systematically as germans did.
None of the big nations are guilt free when it comes to imperialism and killing, but nobody ever did anything of the scale of holocaust.
definetly not for this forum.
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html
That's the last I'll say about it. Cheers.
GS3Tek
03-15-06, 03:53 PM
Thanks for the pictures :thumbup:
For one thing though, I sure like the way how Russians take care of criminals-beat now and ask later!
4TehNguyen
03-15-06, 05:18 PM
Yeah, and several hundred thousand civilians is some price to pay, wont you say?
its either 2 abombs for several hundred thousand lives or you will have Allied casualities in the millions and japanese casualities 5x that and the war lasting until 1947-1948 from invading Japan. You obviously need to read on history more especially on the Battle of Okinawa, that fight for an island only several square miles was absolutely horrible 10s of thousands of casualities combined on both sides for less than 10 square miles of rock, and it gave a hint of what a fight on mainland Japan would be like. Can you imagine what the same fight would be on mainland japan which is 10000s of times its size. The 2 abombs saved millions of lives for all sides and a country from complete erradication. I dont know what to say if you cant see that.
I dont see how you say USSR genocide against itself is lesser in severity than the ones the Germans did. Thats an incredibly terrible thing to say, I couldnt believe I just read that.
Och
03-15-06, 05:35 PM
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html
That's the last I'll say about it. Cheers.
That is just so screwed up. It says Hitler is reponsibe for death of 12,000,000 people, but in fact he is responsible for at least 40,000,000.
And it doesn't list the genocide of Japanese by USA's a-bombs.
1SICKLEX
03-15-06, 05:35 PM
Guys, please stay on topic. I might split this thread so ya'll can talk elsewhere.
Och
03-15-06, 05:53 PM
its either 2 abombs for several hundred thousand lives or you will have Allied casualities in the millions and japanese casualities 5x that and the war lasting until 1947-1948 from invading Japan. You obviously need to read on history more especially on the Battle of Okinawa, that fight for an island only several square miles was absolutely horrible 10s of thousands of casualities combined on both sides for less than 10 square miles of rock, and it gave a hint of what a fight on mainland Japan would be like. Can you imagine what the same fight would be on mainland japan which is 10000s of times its size. The 2 abombs saved millions of lives for all sides and a country from complete erradication. I dont know what to say if you cant see that.
Whatever the case might have been - it would be a military fight, not a murder of hundreds of thousand of civillians.
I dont see how you say USSR genocide against itself is lesser in severity than the ones the Germans did. Thats an incredibly terrible thing to say, I couldnt believe I just read that.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying it's lesser, its just different. It was a civil war, war for power if you want. There's no justification for it, but at least the reasons and motives are clear. Who are you going to hold responsible now? Dead goverment officials of the past?
On the other hand germany is a completely different story. It was the whole country that claims to have the most civilized, educated and smartest people turn into sick animals murdering everyone on their way in cold blood, with no regard for women, children and God. I could understand when uneducated barbaric religious fanatics commit acts of terror, I could understand when politicians commit crimes to obtain power, but I cannot understand a nation of civilized people turn into murderers. Remember, it wasn't just Hitler, it was pretty much every german person that willingly supported and took part in the genocide. In case of Stalin - it was just him an a bunch of militant commies, and they were always hated by the Russian people.
I strongly believe that germans simply have some sort of gene that makes that violent. I believe if they had won the war, they would still be enslaving and murdering people. I believe if they had enough power, they would start another war today. In fact, I hope they start a new war, so that they can be nuked off the face of the earth for good.
I suggest you read this book, it does a good job of describing germans.