I saw a new ES350 on the road yesterday. I was in front of, beside, and behind it at various times for several miles. WOW that's a good looking car. Way to go Lexus. I think it may well eat into GS sales and possibly even LS sales.

I saw a new ES350 on the road yesterday. I was in front of, beside, and behind it at various times for several miles. WOW that's a good looking car. Way to go Lexus. I think it may well eat into GS sales and possibly even LS sales.I just saw a new Camry today and thought it looked very nice indeed.

I was walking to work when I saw it, so I paused to look at the interior and the interior also looks very nice. Certainly light years ahead of my wifes crappy Maxima anyway!

The new ES350 is WAY nicer than the new Camry inside & out.

I think it may well eat into GS sales and possibly even LS sales.
I don't think so. The ES is such a different animal compared to the GS and LS.

The ES is s front wheel drive comfort car. The GS is more performance oriented and has more spirited driver feedback (for a Lexus; let's not compare it to the 5-Series). The LS is not even in the same category as the ES except for the Lexus badge; it will be Ultra-Lux and Ultra-Fast and Ultra-Expensive.

Yeah, I don't think people looking for a LS will even consider an ES as an alternative. The GS300/350, maybe, some people don't care about whether it's FWD . . .

same here, ls and es are way too different for people to choose the es over.

anyway, i have yet to see the es350 on the road, but i have seen a few new camry. its ok, but i still can't get over the front, especially teh grille area

the es350 i have seen and sat in the car before, it's just so damn nice

I just saw a new Camry today and thought it looked very nice indeed.

I was walking to work when I saw it, so I paused to look at the interior and the interior also looks very nice. Certainly light years ahead of my wifes crappy Maxima anyway!

And the ES350 is 'light years' ahead of the new Camry - really no comparison.

While the new GS has grown on me, but not enough to consider buying one, this ES is a home run design to my eyes. The GS may be 'sportier' but it doesn't have near enough sportiness to make it worth the money over the ES.

I saw a new ES350 on the road yesterday. I was in front of, beside, and behind it at various times for several miles. WOW that's a good looking car. Way to go Lexus. I think it may well eat into GS sales and possibly even LS sales.

when the GS350 gets 306 hp and the GS460 gets 380 hp, the ES wont touch it

when the GS350 gets 306 hp and the GS460 gets 380 hp, the ES wont touch it

Not everyone that buys a car does so for performance though... I can definatly see the ES350 tapping into GS sales. Not so sure about the LS, thats a totally different class.

Not everyone that buys a car does so for performance though... I can definatly see the ES350 tapping into GS sales. Not so sure about the LS, thats a totally different class.With the new LS going upper market, I can definitely see the new ES tapping into the originaly entry LS430 market.

With the new LS going upper market, I can definitely see the new ES tapping into the originaly entry LS430 market.

Possibly... I was however refferring to all the "L-finesse" models

I think the risk of 'cannibalizing' other Lexus sales is a worthwhile one even if it means that each Lexus car is so attractive, it seems to render the previous one less attractive. Given that Lexus sets standards in luxury, quality, and overall ownership experience, perhaps having more 'best Lexuses' will also bring in customers from other brands. With each car being so far a tour de force of sorts (with some flaws hopefully ironed out over the years), Lexus may increase its share of real 'hits.' :thumbup:

I'm waiting for a 2007 GS 350 AWD ( and a 2007 IS 350 ) and I would never even consider a 2007 ES 350. It doesn't touch the 3GS ( or the 2IS ) in styling and attention to detail.

I haven't seen the New ES in person, but from the pics I agree, the GS and IS get more L-Finesse cues. The ES is more conservative in styling, but the more I see the pics and different colors the more I find elements to like about the ES design.

For me, the clincher between IS/ES is the backseat. I wonder if Lexus was afraid of cannibalization, and truly restricted the IS backseat because of the ES...otherwise the IS is my first choice.

I understand from reports that it is even smoother and quieter than the last one, but I am not as impressed with the new interior as with the last one. The last ES had beautiful wood paneling all over the entire dash and on all four doors. The new interior, while not exactly cheap-looking, IMO looks to much like the new IS and GS and doesn't have the super-rich look the last one did.
I'll save any further comments, however, pending a review.

Well, like I said in the April Sales thread above I really dont see why the new ES wont pull customers away from the GS. IMO its a legit alternative. The entire "because the GS is sporty and the ES is luxurious so people wont cross shop" doesnt work for me in this case. The ES offers basically the same features(in some cases more or less), same interior space, more trunk space, and both have really great designs(although that is highly subjective). The price for a loaded up ES with all the bells and whistles is about 3-4K more expensive than a base GS300 or about the same price with options minus Navi/ML. The ES will also be readily available compared to the GS. The fact that we already have undecisive people(even on this board) cross shopping the IS and GS further lets me know that there will be comparisons between the GS and IS. Its inevitable that these cars will be cross shopped especially when they share the same dealership space.

A person that is looking for a 40-45K Lexus has tons of choices(which by the way is the average selling price for Lexus models). A choice of two fully loaded IS's or ES's or a lightly optioned GS. If I was basing my decision on price for features(which I am sure TONS of customers do) I wouldnt even think about the GS. Hence IS/ES sales will be eating into GS sales.

^^
Agreed, to an extent...I sometimes wonder if the ES market itself has changed, I remember that Lexus chart showing how the entry-level market is moving towards Sport over Luxury. In that chart, it seemed like either a) the ES is being left behind or b) everyone is running away from the ES :D.

If the 'sporty image' idea holds, then the GS/IS market should stand on its own...but already the GS is at low volume pending the GS 350. Perhaps that can be inferred not only as a wait for the new model (and associated depreciation, etc.), but also a preemptive decision to 'clear the way' for the ES 350. After all, the 3.5L engine in the New ES vs. the 3.0L New GS...

But the ES also has been its own sales phenomenon, leading the Lexus lineup for years and now its #1 best sedan seller.

However, for its price range I can't help but wonder whether the ES is more IS-competitive as both are 'entry-level' luxury. I know for myself, personally, if I were to consider a new Lexus it'd be a contest between the IS and ES for me...

IMO the GS needs to have additional distinctive details to elevate it above the IS/ES...a RSES, or more luxe features...

^^
Agreed, to an extent...I sometimes wonder if the ES market itself has changed, I remember that Lexus chart showing how the entry-level market is moving towards Sport over Luxury. In that chart, it seemed like either a) the ES is being left behind or b) everyone is running away from the ES :D.

If the 'sporty image' idea holds, then the GS/IS market should stand on its own...but already the GS is at low volume pending the GS 350. Perhaps that can be inferred not only as a wait for the new model (and associated depreciation, etc.), but also a preemptive decision to 'clear the way' for the ES 350. After all, the 3.5L engine in the New ES vs. the 3.0L New GS...

But the ES also has been its own sales phenomenon, leading the Lexus lineup for years and now its #1 best sedan seller.

However, for its price range I can't help but wonder whether the ES is more IS-competitive as both are 'entry-level' luxury. I know for myself, personally, if I were to consider a new Lexus it'd be a contest between the IS and ES for me...

IMO the GS needs to have additional distinctive details to elevate it above the IS/ES...a RSES, or more luxe features...

thought u could get a RSES in the GS, not aftermarket but from the Lexus dealership

IMO the GS needs to have additional distinctive details to elevate it above the IS/ES...a RSES, or more luxe features...

Bingo, or more 'sport'. ;)

thought u could get a RSES in the GS, not aftermarket but from the Lexus dealership
not really, i don't know of such option. the RSES is only on the ls460l and ls600hl?

^^
Agreed, to an extent...I sometimes wonder if the ES market itself has changed, I remember that Lexus chart showing how the entry-level market is moving towards Sport over Luxury. In that chart, it seemed like either a) the ES is being left behind or b) everyone is running away from the ES :D.

But the ES also has been its own sales phenomenon, leading the Lexus lineup for years and now its #1 best sedan seller.

.

Exactly. The ES, as a luxury sedan, has not sold in big numbers for nothing. The auto market has ENOUGH sport sedans. If they try to make the ES into one, it will ( literally ) kill two birds with one stone......First, by ruining the ES itself, and second, by taking sales away from its own brother IS.

there isnt really a car that can compete toe to toe with the ES, most cars in its range are sport sedans which the ES isnt but its a entry level lux sedan. The IS is already taking care of that

there isnt really a car that can compete toe to toe with the ES, most cars in its range are sport sedans which the ES isnt but its a entry level lux sedan. The IS is already taking care of thatWell theoretically the Buick LaCrosse was meant to compete toe to toe with precisely the ES. Too bad it fell short, to even the last-gen ES. :egads:

I recently drove an ES350. The ride is what we've come to expect from the ES, but the straight line power was excellent. I have driven the new Avavons quite often and I actually think the ES feels slightly faster on the highway.

Road noise levels have to be the best for a car with a base price of under $40k. I couldn't even hear the engine rumble as I was punching it from 40-70. Now with that extra power, this car feels very LS like on the highway. I fully agree with the statements about this car being better than a 1st gen LS.

Well theoretically the Buick LaCrosse was meant to compete toe to toe with precisely the ES. Too bad it fell short, to even the last-gen ES. :egads:


You guys don't have to read my reviews either....or take my word for it. Examine these two cars for yourselves, inside and out, and while it is true that the LaCrosse shows some fit-and-finish improvement over the Century / Regal it replaces, I would bet the monthly rent that most of you ( or a clear majority ) come up with the same conclusion I did that the ES is a far better car, even though the new ES is not quite as opulent inside as the old one.

I haven't seen a 5ES in motion but at the auto show, its a good looking car! Its pretty big too.

As MMarshall said, we have ENOUGH, sports sedan and POSUERS in this class, the ES is not confused, its about luxury and provides it in spades.

i saw two ES's so far.....a white one with the beige interior parked on my neighbors block, and looke real nice from the bak...the other was driving next to me black on black...man was that thing sexy--i never really liked how the photographs of it portrayed the ES but in person WOW!!!

The one I saw looked like a blue/gray color - man was it sharp. :woohoo:

lol....having second thoughts Paul??!! ;) :D

Im seeing these things all over the place now. Past 2 days I saw 5 in a bunch of different colors. 3 or 4 of them had the UL package too.

They really look great. Classy with a little bit of sport thrown in. :thumbup:

lol....having second thoughts Paul??!! ;) :D

LOL - no. My new ride was probably $15K less than a loaded ES350. ;)

I saw a white ES 350 with Longo Lexus new plates yesterday. The white color made it look rather simplistic in contours and design, but still sleek and elegant. At first when it was approaching head-on from a distance, I thought it was an IS...

Incidentally I saw 3 IS' that day and 5 GS...latest gens all.

The New ES looks promising.

I just saw one today! Man does it look sharp on the road.

There seems to be a LOT of interest in this car on CL.......as, I guess, there would be in any new Lexus product. So......a review coming up in the near future. Not just for others, either....there is a chance that this car may be my next purchase, too, though at least a couple of years down the road ( although I have become a big fan of AWD and will probably not give it up lightly ) Yes, there is the IS250 AWD, but its chassis and tires are not well-suited to my type of driving.

:thumbup: There seems to be a LOT of interest in this car on CL.......as, I guess, there would be in any new Lexus product. So......a review coming up in the near future. Not just for others, either....there is a chance that this car may be my next purchase, too, though at least a couple of years down the road ( although I have become a big fan of AWD and will probably not give it up lightly ) Yes, there is the IS250 AWD, but its chassis and tires are not well-suited to my type of driving.
Cant wait to hear it :thumbup:

I've seen the new es 3 times at the dealership and liked it but was somewhat disappointed in the looks of the front bumper. Mainly because it seems neglected as compared to the fantastic rear lexus created. BUT, yesterday I saw one on the road coming toward me. It created excitement. First because I didn't know what it was...or more accurately hadn't ever seen anything else like it coming toward me. After a couple seconds I thought, it must be the new es. It was...and it looks good moving. In traffic. On the road is where you really know. In it's natural environment....this car is a winner. I agree with others who think it will cut into sales of all Lexus cars except the SC and the trucks...possibly the IS because those are usually younger people buying it. Only us enthusiasts case about rear wheel drive. The 270hp is way enough. Now it has the looks and technology too. For many, the LS won't make sense. The GS is sportier but it's looks don't match the sporty persona..not enough anyway. ES will cut in those sales too. I agree with mmarshall the interior looks less luxurious than the last model but it's on par with what Lexus is producing today. This car will set sales records for Lexus.

you dont buy LS because you absolutly need LS (large rwd luxury sedan) ... you buy LS because you can and you would never buy 35k car.

you dont buy LS because you absolutly need LS (large rwd luxury sedan) ... you buy LS because you can and you would never buy 35k car.
I spoke with 3 people while I was looking over the car at the dealership who felt this car would cut into LS sales. One currently owned an LS. He's on his 3rd LS. He was very interested in the ES350. The other 2 presently own ES330's but were considering upgrading. Now it appears there is no need. he ES350 is an upgrade.

I don't believe the ES will hurt LS sales, just cut into them. Some people are frugal and won't spend more than needed to get what they want or need. Now you can buy a fully loaded ES that costs 44K. That's past what is considered entry level, that's a luxury car. But it's cheaper than an LS but with almost all the bells and whistles of an LS. We'll see.

you dont buy LS because you absolutly need LS (large rwd luxury sedan) ... you buy LS because you can and you would never buy 35k car.

Well, yes......anyone who has a lot of money can throw it around to flaunt it, but the wise person, IMO, thinks before he / she spends that much on a new car. The LS is a superlative car, no doubt. There is no queston about that. But, at least the last-generation ES ( I won't comment on the new one until I have reviewed it ) was also a superlative car for the price, and was almost as good as the LS for a lot less money. In addition, the ES, with its FWD, is better-suited to slippery roads than the RWD LS, even with the LS's Traction Control and Stability system.

you dont buy LS because you absolutly need LS (large rwd luxury sedan) ... you buy LS because you can and you would never buy 35k car.

OK, but the CPO/used LS market could be crimped by the ES too. 3-4 yr old LS or a new ES? Hmm...

Saw my first "live" ES350 while driving from LA to SD yesterday. Must admit, looked very sharp from the back...very distinctive tail lamps. Overall, a huge improvement exterior wise over the last generation ES.

On a related note, saw a few new Camrys on the road as well. Very nice looking as well. :thumbup:

I can't believe I still have not seen an ES350 yet................... seen tons of new Camry's (and it looks really, really nice), but no new ES's yet...

I can't believe I still have not seen an ES350 yet................... seen tons of new Camry's (and it looks really, really nice), but no new ES's yet...
haha move to cali and you see all cars first hand ;)

my wife have seen her first m6 a while ago already :)

haha move to cali and you see all cars first hand ;)

my wife have seen her first m6 a while ago already :)

Agreed California is where it's at when it comes to new cars. You'll always see someone driving the latest and greatest cars here...

Yeah you can see them all standing still on the 405. :p

The ES has and will always remain Lexus' "bread and butter" car - especially with the new model. If it was rwd I'd be all over that car. I loved everything about my '02 ES except for the fwd. They did a excellent job on redesign that BAM (big azz moonroof) is awesome.

:thumbup:

Yeah you can see them all standing still on the 405. :p


Hahah aint that the truth I think saw just about every new car that hits the market sitting on that fwy, and had enough time to give it a good once over.

Yeah you can see them all standing still on the 405. :p
Don't forget the 110, 10 and 91 freeways as well :p

The ES has and will always remain Lexus' "bread and butter" car - especially with the new model. If it was rwd I'd be all over that car. I loved everything about my '02 ES except for the fwd. They did a excellent job on redesign that BAM (big azz moonroof) is awesome.

:thumbup:

Since you had an '02, were you satisfied with the transmission shift characteristics and throttle response on it? It was a beautiful car with a stunning interior, but that was the chief owner complaint.

As far as sedans go, I agree with your assement of the ES as the bread and butter car, but the RX has been the overall sales leader on more than one occasion.

Don't forget the 110, 10 and 91 freeways as well :p

And the 101 up north, the 5... :)

just saw a crystal white one during lunch, caught my eye knew it was something different, large car too

Since you had an '02, were you satisfied with the transmission shift characteristics and throttle response on it? It was a beautiful car with a stunning interior, but that was the chief owner complaint.

As far as sedans go, I agree with your assement of the ES as the bread and butter car, but the RX has been the overall sales leader on more than one occasion.
I was very satisfied with the car and that didn't bother me at all as it was a $36k car. If it was, say...a LS I'd probably be pissed but I was too busy enjoying the navi, mark levinson, wood steering wheel, comfy ride, and 29 mpg to complain about the hesitation in shifting, there were too many other great things going on in that car...you know what I'm sayin'? :)

The ES has been out since the birth of Lexus and is a steady seller for Lexus but the RX only came out in '99 so that's what I meant. The ES will continue to do well long after the suv fad dies out. It was here before and it will be here after. :)