Is Lexus failing?
Is Lexus failing?
So, if you pay attention to the sale charts, the sales of LS, GS and SC, as well as the LX and the GX models have been going down miserably. The only ones that are really selling are ES, RX and IS, but then ES and RX can hardly be considered "real" Lexus, as they are heavily based on the Camry platform. The IS is doing well, but not anywhere near as the 3 series. And this is really disappointing with the GS and LS - they used to sell a bunch of these, so what happened? I guess it is yet to be seen how the all new LS does, but the GS has just been redesigned last year and its sales are miserable, right down there with RL and Q45. I guess the upcoming engine upgrade might offset some sales, but how much? Not everybody cares about engines, take 525 for instance, its selling very well. Right now the have FOUR!!!! models that don't even sell 1000 units a month - GS430, SC430, LS430, LX430, and GS300 and GX470 are barely breaking 1000, and are on a steady downslide. I wonder how is Lexus turning profitable when 3/4 of its line up isn't selling, and obviously isn't generating profits, and the remaining 1/4 isn't really Lexus, and the profit generated by it is more to Toyotas credit, not Lexus.
Originally Posted by DaveGS4
Have you sat in an ES350? Not a real Lexus? Hmph, I might have to ban you for a while.
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Originally Posted by Och
So, if you pay attention to the sale charts, the sales of LS, GS and SC, as well as the LX and the GX models have been going down miserably. The only ones that are really selling are ES, RX and IS, but then ES and RX can hardly be considered "real" Lexus, as they are heavily based on the Camry platform. The IS is doing well, but not anywhere near as the 3 series. And this is really disappointing with the GS and LS - they used to sell a bunch of these, so what happened? I guess it is yet to be seen how the all new LS does, but the GS has just been redesigned last year and its sales are miserable, right down there with RL and Q45. I guess the upcoming engine upgrade might offset some sales, but how much? Not everybody cares about engines, take 525 for instance, its selling very well. Right now the have FOUR!!!! models that don't even sell 1000 units a month - GS430, SC430, LS430, LX430, and GS300 and GX470 are barely breaking 1000, and are on a steady downslide. I wonder how is Lexus turning profitable when 3/4 of its line up isn't selling, and obviously isn't generating profits, and the remaining 1/4 isn't really Lexus, and the profit generated by it is more to Toyotas credit, not Lexus.
Look at some of the competiton. They revamp all models at once and then they all die at once. Lexus has always updated models in mixes, so you just keep a busy showroom. Not all models will sell, especially at the END of their model cycle.
We have spoken about the GS and LS. The 350 and 460 are coming, they don't evne MAKE 430s anymore. the LS 460 comes in fall. There is hardly ANY production.
It takes MONTHS for factories to switch up and ramp up for a new model.
The SUVs have taken a dive but so has everyone elses. And all the Lexus SUVs are at the end of their model cycle.
Lexus is VERy profitable. Very. Toyota loves Lexus.
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Originally Posted by Och
Not in the new 350, but I sat in the 300, 330 and even 250. The 330 indeed is a very nice car with gorgeous interior and awesome build quality, but I still stand by my statement..
Go try one.
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Dude, they are on target to surpass already record sales levels of over 300,000 units this year. Failing? No its called keeping customers in the dealerships constantly.
Look at some of the competiton. They revamp all models at once and then they all die at once. Lexus has always updated models in mixes, so you just keep a busy showroom. Not all models will sell, especially at the END of their model cycle.
Look at some of the competiton. They revamp all models at once and then they all die at once. Lexus has always updated models in mixes, so you just keep a busy showroom. Not all models will sell, especially at the END of their model cycle.
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
We have spoken about the GS and LS. The 350 and 460 are coming, they don't evne MAKE 430s anymore. the LS 460 comes in fall. There is hardly ANY production.
It takes MONTHS for factories to switch up and ramp up for a new model.
It takes MONTHS for factories to switch up and ramp up for a new model.
Then of course you have the upcoming LS, its going to be an awesome car no doubt, much better than S class or 7 series IMO, so we'll see how it sells. But I'd be surprised if it comes close to the sales of first gen LS - but then again, its going to cost more than twice what first gen LS did.
And wtf is going on with SC? IMO its one of the sexiest cars on the road, why is it doing so miserable? I just dont get it.
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Originally Posted by Och
Not in the new 350, but I sat in the 300, 330 and even 250. The 330 indeed is a very nice car with gorgeous interior and awesome build quality, but I still stand by my statement. It is still largely a glorified Camry. And don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, but lets admit it, the only reason its sold under Lexus badge is to provide Lexus with bread and butter. What about the premium models? Look at MB and BMW, yeah the 3 series and C class are theirs bread and butter, but their premium models are selling great as well, despite being unreliable and overpriced.
2. The ES may use a Camry chassis and engine but Lexus has done a tremendous job seperating the two. Thus the ES is either a best seller or near tops in sales and reliablity in class. Ask Nissan, its not exactly an easy forumla. The I30/35 Maxima clone is discontinued.
The ES 350 is no joke.
THis thread would be more valid if Lexus had NEW premium models and they did not sell, like the Acura RL or instance. You are talking about a
LX from 1998
SC from 2002
LS from 2001
GX from 2002
These are very old cars here at the end of their cycles. And Lexus was smart enough to revamp other parts of the lineup to keep things busy.
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Originally Posted by Och
Good point, very good strategy I guess.
So are you blaming it on production? I dont believe that in the GS case, there just isn't enough demand for it. I do hope that the 3.5 and 4.6 pick up sales, but then look at BMW for instance, the 545 sold very well despite the 550 upgrade, and the 550 didnt bring that much more sales. Same with 745/750. Realistically, how much can they increase the sales of GS with new engines? At most 35% - still very low compared to 5 series and E class.
Then of course you have the upcoming LS, its going to be an awesome car no doubt, much better than S class or 7 series IMO, so we'll see how it sells. But I'd be surprised if it comes close to the sales of first gen LS - but then again, its going to cost more than twice what first gen LS did.
And wtf is going on with SC? IMO its one of the sexiest cars on the road, why is it doing so miserable? I just dont get it.
So are you blaming it on production? I dont believe that in the GS case, there just isn't enough demand for it. I do hope that the 3.5 and 4.6 pick up sales, but then look at BMW for instance, the 545 sold very well despite the 550 upgrade, and the 550 didnt bring that much more sales. Same with 745/750. Realistically, how much can they increase the sales of GS with new engines? At most 35% - still very low compared to 5 series and E class.
Then of course you have the upcoming LS, its going to be an awesome car no doubt, much better than S class or 7 series IMO, so we'll see how it sells. But I'd be surprised if it comes close to the sales of first gen LS - but then again, its going to cost more than twice what first gen LS did.
And wtf is going on with SC? IMO its one of the sexiest cars on the road, why is it doing so miserable? I just dont get it.
If you look at figures I posted, 545 sales dropped like mad until the 550 came. Its not BMW, its business, they got to ramp up for a totally new engine
(and what a great engine)SC 430 sales target was only 12k its first year and no more than 10k every year after. That is all. ITs a limited prouction model, not chasing sales.
Originally Posted by DaveGS4
IMO your statement is unfounded until you do. I would have (and did) buy a Camry over the earlier ES's (no offense to our ES members), but I am very seriously considering getting an ES350 for my daily driver to replace my LS400.
Go try one.
Go try one.
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The GS met first year sales production. I will agree 2nd year is not as good and I think barely on target to meet sales figures. It takes TONS of tooling to make a hybrid, the GS 450h. No one else does it. It takes your best engineers and workers. Then the 3.5 and 4.6 are coming. The LS 430 is pretty much dead in 2 months! THe LS is literally around the corner (new model).
If you look at figures I posted, 545 sales dropped like mad until the 550 came. Its not BMW, its business, they got to ramp up for a totally new engine (and what a great engine)
SC 430 sales target was only 12k its first year and no more than 10k every year after. That is all. ITs a limited prouction model, not chasing sales.
If you look at figures I posted, 545 sales dropped like mad until the 550 came. Its not BMW, its business, they got to ramp up for a totally new engine
(and what a great engine)SC 430 sales target was only 12k its first year and no more than 10k every year after. That is all. ITs a limited prouction model, not chasing sales.
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Originally Posted by Och
Ok, so what do you think Lexus will do if the new engines do not spark the sales of the GS? Do you think the IS maybe stealing GS customers?
I can only hope the 350 and 460 are so fast like the 2GS was in 1998, that editors of the mags drool over the speed and overlook the handling some. (and the stock 3GS is way better than a stock 2GS).
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I think if GS sales stay flat, they will kick the product team behind the car and get a new group. The GS is in an ultra competative segment. Even though I would get one, like many, I am not blown away by the 2GS to 3GS upgrade as the 1GS to 2GS was or even the 1IS to 2IS was. Quite honestly, they almost dropped the ball
I can only hope the 350 and 460 are so fast like the 2GS was in 1998, that editors of the mags drool over the speed and overlook the handling some. (and the stock 3GS is way better than a stock 2GS).
I can only hope the 350 and 460 are so fast like the 2GS was in 1998, that editors of the mags drool over the speed and overlook the handling some. (and the stock 3GS is way better than a stock 2GS).
I upgraded from 1GS to 2GS, but the 3GS isn't doing it for me. Gorgeous but not distinctive. In fact, I don't really dig this whole "L-finesse" thing, I like when models look different. Why is it so necessary to make the whole lineup looking so similar that you can't tell one from another unless you're an expert. IMO my 2GS looks 100x better than 3GS.
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Just wait for the next LS....it will shake up the luxe cruiser market like nothing has before.
I don't know how many of you have actually seen the next LS in person but......it's simply jaw droppingly stunning. Add that to how we KNOW it's going to perform and...
I don't know how many of you have actually seen the next LS in person but......it's simply jaw droppingly stunning. Add that to how we KNOW it's going to perform and...