Funny story for you all...

Besides my 02 SC430, I also drive a FX35 Infiniti 2003 with 75k miles on it that once was my outside sales company car. From 2003-2005 I put 60k miles on it, since then it has taken the backseat for my company car to a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee-which I am comparing to Japanese dependability.

In the three plus years of the FX35's life, normal brake pads, two sets of tires, bulbs, fluids, filters, wiper blades, battery and belts are all that has been done on it. It drives today as crisp and solid as it did in 2003, and I have driven the hell out of this car. It hangs with G35's and 350Z's and surprises many cars and SUV's off the line with it's 280hp and 20" chromes.

Of course, the 02 SC430 without saying has been even more reliable and maintenance free with even less issues than the FX35 it it's 4+ years of existence and with low 23k miles.

Now for the funny part...I have a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 2WD with only 11k miles on it and it is falling apart! It drives like it is 10 years old and has 200k on it. Both my 4 and 5 year old Japanese cars feel tighter, smoother and better than this car. It has rattled since I drove it home from the dealer. One of the cheap speakers is popping, it's gone through a set of tires already. It only gets 15MPG and is so slow I have to floor it just to stay up with Camry's and Accords! I cannot believe it has 260HP, it feels like 160! It knocks and pings when you rev it up, the tranny shifts like it has 200k on it, as you can feel the changes to each gear. The front wheels make a loud vibrating noise out of them...AND THIS ISN'T EVEN A 4WD! The crappy interior will give you abrasions on your legs and arms if you happen to accidently bang yourself getting in/out it is so hard and cheap. The seats squeak when no one is sitting in them and finally my favorite...When you are at a light, the car has a little shake to it similar to a muscle car rumble with glass packs on it! What a P.O.S. american made hunkajunk. I totally understand why I have owned 24 cars in my life and only 3 of them have been american made cars and only because my company is too ignorant to buy japanese dependable fleet cars. They have paid over $3k in service on this car already with worn out maintenance things like tires, belts, hoses, wipers, bulbs, pads, etc. that would never go out at 11k on a Japanese car. Until the BIG 3 (Toyota is now in the big three, but I am talking about American Big 3) gets a clue and builds more quality vehicles, I will never buy another one as long as I live, nor will I ever recommend one.

Your sample set of 1 copy of 1 American made vehicle must be representative of the whole domestic offering I'm sure. ;)

Your sample set of 1 copy of 1 American made vehicle must be representative of the whole domestic offering I'm sure. ;)
To be fair, I don't think he implied it is representative necessarily, he is just telling HIS experience, & we all base a lot of our beliefs on our own experiences . . .

Grand cherokee is a complete POS. In fact, all of Chrysler vehicles are nothing more than polished turds.

Grand cherokee is a complete POS. In fact, all of Chrysler vehicles are nothing more than polished turds.

I agree. In Mexico, the Chrysler products hold up better over time than Ford or GM, but that's about it. I was driving a 1996 Dodge Caravan to work (until I upgraded my insurance for my Lexus down here), and it got a nickname of money pit from me, as we blew a tranny, water pump, had to replace every spark plug, shocks/struts. I didn't hate the poor little thing, but it shows exactly why Big 3 quality has gone in the toilet.

Grand cherokee is a complete POS. In fact, all of Chrysler vehicles are nothing more than polished turds.

The new SRT-8 Jeep is badazz though!!!

The new SRT-8 Jeep is badazz though!!!

Blah... Yeah its fast, but its about as refined as a 1960ies muscle cars. The sound of its engine alone makes me wanna puke.

Something does not add up. 11,000 miles and you have spent 3000.00 for tires,belts, hoses, and pads? Belts and hoses don't fail this fast and it would be a warranty item. Now you can smoke the tires and you can wear out the brakes pads but you got to really try to tear it up. No arguement on the driving dynamics though. Every one I have driven felt like it was very loose and sloppy.

hahaha pretty funny story there, nice read and a good laugh.

well to me? i guess it's already decided that there will be no domestic in our garage for quite a while to come

Your sample set of 1 copy of 1 American made vehicle must be representative of the whole domestic offering I'm sure. ;)

beating around the bush, american cars have been widely known to perform and have interiors like the above for ages, this is nothing new or surprising.

11k miles service history on the 2006 Grand Cherokee (stack of receipts are right on my desk as I type this):

1) Temperature Gauge showing 3/4 HOT=Flush/Fill Radiator, replace hose and gasket $300. Was told that this is normal wear and tear with stop n go.
2) Two sets of Goodyears (yuck), $940 at Discount Tire and $1056 at NTB
3) Replace rear brake pads, polish rotors and 4 wheel alignment=$600
4) Replace rear tail light and front turn signal bulbs (my wife took it in)= $36
5) Add freon to A/C unit-temperature at 46 degrees should be at 42. $150
6) Replace from brake pads, plish rotors and 4 wheel alignment= $534
7) Replace a/c belt-squeaking=$38.00

That is your $3k in service for 11k of good ole' american ride quality.

Don't get me wrong...I absolutely love the new mustang, 300HC Hemi, c6 vette, Yukon Denali, Caddy Escalade, even the F150 trucks, Lincoln Mark VIII trucks and more, but the bottom line is that they are just Taurus-Sebring-Ranger-Trailblazer-GrandAm shared parts POS's that will only last 1/4th the time as their Japanese contemporaries. Bottom line: I wouldn't buy one.

1) Temperature Gauge showing 3/4 HOT=Flush/Fill Radiator, replace hose and gasket $300. Was told that this is normal wear and tear with stop n go.

Um, I think they took you on that one. :sad:

2) Two sets of Goodyears (yuck), $940 at Discount Tire and $1056 at NTB

So you're on your THIRD set of tires in 11K mi. and you're driving is mostly stop n go? R U doing burnouts at every light? Why the incredibly short tire life?

3) Replace rear brake pads, polish rotors and 4 wheel alignment=$600

Sounds incredibly expensive - I don't get it.

6) Replace from brake pads, plish rotors and 4 wheel alignment= $534

And again! (I know, fronts this time, rears first time) :eek2:

Don't get me wrong...I absolutely love the new mustang, 300HC Hemi, c6 vette, Yukon Denali, Caddy Escalade, even the F150 trucks, Lincoln Mark VIII trucks and more, but the bottom line is that they are just Taurus-Sebring-Ranger-Trailblazer-GrandAm shared parts POS's that will only last 1/4th the time as their Japanese contemporaries. Bottom line: I wouldn't buy one.

I think our F-150 has about 40K mi. on it and I think we've spent about $300 on maintenance.

^^^ :agree: :agreed:

I don't understand why the temp gauge and the ac refill is not under warranty:uh:

I can understand your pain.
My friend has the exact same model also, but an 05.

She picked it up this past Wednesday after waiting for 2 weeks for a part to come in. It left her stranded since she couldn't start up the car after many tries. Neighbor has an XLR and left him stranded on 3 different ocassions-another story.

What was worst than the car itself was the customer dis-service. And this was verified after calling 2 more dealers maybe we can get better treatment at another dealer. Wow, "service" there on the phone was even worst.

From day one when it was towed to the dealer, she received only 1 phone call (out of 2 weeks) to let her know that a part was ordered..........that was it. Even on the day when the car was finished, she never received a call as promised. All she got was "oh the, the car is done:thumbdn: :mad: " Gee, thanks for letting me know.

Anyways, I got to check out the car again. OMG, horrible quality. Dash was hard with some weird popcorn material you see on those old ceilings. Panels around the door and windows both inside and outside were slowly coming off already:eek2: I kept pushing on it but it wouldn't stay.

I tried pairing it up with her bluetooth phone. Let me say that after this feat, I will never talk bad about Lexus bluetooth:p
This was done all through voice command and you know how frustrating it is after the car won't recognize the command. Is my accent that bad?:p

Lots of features were missing-unless I am totally missing some functions here. It is nowhere user-friendly. No visible phone book, no caller ID (just lists the phone # even after you store the # under the name)...

I didn't bother wanting to drive it.

As for GS, the AC is still cold as hell, engine is strong, no trims or body panels falling apart...typical lexus stuff;) ..........still in good health at 134k:woot:

I am open minded to other car makers. I won't bash on everything until I get to see/touch/or even hear from my personal friends or families.
I don't know about other jeep/chrysler products, but the new ford/lincoln and gm seem to have pretty nice products now, finally.

There are some american vehicles that are reliable. The % of reliable Americans cars is much lower than the % reliable Japanese cars of course. Listed below are domestic Consumer Reports Good Bets. CR Good Bets are cars that have multiple years of above-average Used Car Verdicts...

Buick Regal
Ford Crown Victoria
Ford Escort
Mustang (V8)
Lincoln Town Car

I left out the Chevrolet Prizm & Pontiac Vibe for obvious reasons*

There are many more reliable American vehicles(like the Ford F150 for example) but we would have to go into great detail to differentiate which years were reliable and which years were not.

bitkahuna-why the debbie-downer messages? Dude, why would I make up that stuff...would you like me to send you the invoices? I'll be glad to. I never said that all american cars were a POS...read my messages again!!Perhaps you are offended because you own a F150? I did mention that I like the F150 (especially this bodystyle in the two tone) among other sharp american autos, but you might have missed that.

I have been in outside sales with an american fleet car for a little over ten years (and the reps I manage) and I can speak from vast experience with either myself owning or the company providing cars like: Luminas, Astros, Malibus, Ford 500's, Chevy Trailblazer, Concorde, Taurus, Sable, Impala, Sebring, Intrepid, Chrysler 300, Pacifica, Windstar, etc etc have all been POS's. I have managed a team of 12 sales reps during this time and they go through about a car a year. That's approximately ~100 american autos I have personally rode in, shared stories and experiences with my reps (some first hand, like the tranny of my rep's 2002 Intrepid going out on a highway at 60mph with 18k on the car!) so I feel fairly competent and confident that I have experienced a good enough sample of american autos to speak on this. How about you???? Have you had this kind of experience personally?

As far as being "taken", I could care less what it costs to fix these POS's because they are my company cars and the company insists on continuously purchasing these, so when something is wrong, I go where the tell me and get repaired what they tell me with no questions asked.

Are there exceptions? Sure there are! Just like there are a few exceptions the other way with our fine Japanese automobiles. I believe statiscally JD Powers has rated the F150 and/or the Chevy Suburban the # 1 american resale and long term dependability vehicle many times.

The tires, brakes and gas mileage on this Jeep are absolutely horrible. The tires are very "soft" and get worn out very quickly. I can't explain why my 2002 SC430 was finally needing new tires after 23k miles and 4 years and this car goes through them so quickly...see my point? Poor quality all around!

bitkahuna-why the debbie-downer messages? Dude, why would I make up that stuff...would you like me to send you the invoices? I'll be glad to. I never said that all american cars were a POS...read my messages again!!Perhaps you are offended because you own a F150? I did mention that I like the F150 (especially this bodystyle in the two tone) among other sharp american autos, but you might have missed that.

I have been in outside sales with an american fleet car for a little over ten years (and the reps I manage) and I can speak from vast experience with either myself owning or the company providing cars like: Luminas, Astros, Malibus, Ford 500's, Chevy Trailblazer, Concorde, Taurus, Sable, Impala, Sebring, Intrepid, Chrysler 300, Pacifica, Windstar, etc etc have all been POS's. I have managed a team of 12 sales reps during this time and they go through about a car a year. That's approximately ~100 american autos I have personally rode in, shared stories and experiences with my reps (some first hand, like the tranny of my rep's 2002 Intrepid going out on a highway at 60mph with 18k on the car!) so I feel fairly competent and confident that I have experienced a good enough sample of american autos to speak on this. How about you???? Have you had this kind of experience personally?

As far as being "taken", I could care less what it costs to fix these POS's because they are my company cars and the company insists on continuously purchasing these, so when something is wrong, I go where the tell me and get repaired what they tell me with no questions asked.

Are there exceptions? Sure there are! Just like there are a few exceptions the other way with our fine Japanese automobiles. I believe statiscally JD Powers has rated the F150 and/or the Chevy Suburban the # 1 american resale and long term dependability vehicle many times.

The tires, brakes and gas mileage on this Jeep are absolutely horrible. The tires are very "soft" and get worn out very quickly. I can't explain why my 2002 SC430 was finally needing new tires after 23k miles and 4 years and this car goes through them so quickly...see my point? Poor quality all around!

Thanks for the clarifications. My initial response was because your thread is titled "Japanese Dependability Comparison... My Three Cars I own" and not "my experience with ~100 domestic autos vs. my own Japanese cars" - your original post only compared your Jeep with your other cars.

I am not doubting your service performed either, but if the Jeep has crap tires that require being on your 3rd set in 11K then maybe it's time to get better tires? And Lexus doesn't always use great tires either. The RX300 I used to own came with Goodyear "Integrity" tires which are the biggest POS I've ever driven on. Switched to Michelins when it was time, and the difference was night and day. Every GS400 owner dealt with the CRAP Bridgestone Potenzas that the car came with, and usually switched to something else when the time came.

Another factor may be how you drive your own vehicles vs. the 'company' car, even subconsciously. Just like rental cars usually getting serious abuse.

I guess if I'd gone through all that service in 11K I'd be ALL OVER the dealership.

Anyway, sorry for your Jeep experience. But maybe you should read the thread on a guy's experience with 2 brand new loaded Camry's and the failing transmissions. ;)

But maybe you should read the thread on a guy's experience with 2 brand new loaded Camry's and the failing transmissions. ;)

I thought US Camrys were made domestically from majority US suppliers? So, technically, it's a US domestic car right?

My Camry, which is made in Australia, however, has numerous quality problems. So I would agree with the premise that Japanese manufacturers are not immune.

Just realized that it's a fleet car, hence why his company had to cover the repair bills on those items that would have otherwise been covered by the warranty, the new car warranty is only for a new owner buying the car, anything like rental or fleet use is not your normal warranty.

Domestic cars, their are exceptions but overall the Americans built rolling POS for years expecting hard working individuals to deal with the problems, the Domestics did this to themselves and now they are starting to improve the quality, wow big deal, this improvement to build better cars never occurred to them 20 years ago,

One thing you might consider is that the two Japanese vehicles are from their brands high end side. In May I purchased a new Toyota FJ Cruiser (2007) and not the SC my wife and I were looking at. We were looking at buying a business and needed a hauler and wanted to keep some of our cash in reserve. After 4 months with the truck it's tranmission (AT) would forever slam into first gear at stop lights. Some times it would jump 2-3 foot forward if light brake preasure was applied (until I was use to keeping the brakes mashed at lights). Three dealers told me this was normal and the Web forum found this was common on this vehicle and other Toyota Trucks and SUV. The radio was total junk, plastic panels scratched by looking at them and I can go on. My point is even in Japanese cars the higher end cars are leagues above their lesser brands mates. I truely feel that you get what you pay for even in Japanese cars. My FJ was traded on the new SC430 (trade in value was not very good). I'm not defending the Jeep but please consider if you where compairing the Jeep to a GX. That $15K-$22K differrence allows the manufacturer to spend a little more time on the details. I wish Toyota had on the FJ.

Wow Samanator, that's quite a story. How long did you have the FJ - it hasn't been out that long!?

nobody says japanese cars are immune to problems, they just have a heck of a lot less problems compared to certain companies

My point is even in Japanese cars the higher end cars are leagues above their lesser brands mates. I truely feel that you get what you pay for even in Japanese cars.

Ummm, thats not true.. how do u explain the Corolla? Its 1 of the cheapest cars out there starting at $14k for a CE and yet its 1 of the most reliable cars on the road PERIOD!

Ummm, thats not true.. how do u explain the Corolla? Its 1 of the cheapest cars out there starting at $14k for a CE and yet its 1 of the most reliable cars on the road PERIOD!

My experience with the FJ (Over 4.5 months) and FJ Forum was that quite a few people just accepted some of these things as normal. A problem has to be perceived to be reported. Without this perception, survey data may be tainted. There were many replies to my thread over there that this was quite common for over 10 years in many Toyotas and other manufactures products including Corollas. I still support my original point that price and brand set levels of expectations and tolerances. No one would accept an engine that uses a quart of oil every 100 miles in any new car, but they will accept a low cost vehicle that makes compromises to meet a lower price point. There was a rumor circulating that the FJ was suppose to be a Scion originally and that the Toyota branding was a last minute change. This may explain some of the issues I had with the FJ (except for the AT). As a Scion I may have accepted this at a lesser price but as a Toyota at the elevated prices in our area (over $36K) this was just a few thousand below what we paid for my wife’s 2006 Lexus IS 250. We think the IS250 is a jewel that has exceeded our expectations in every perceivable way. Since we bought the Lexus before the FJ a level of expectation was set for what Toyota can deliver at this price point. This was not delivered in the vehicle.

One thing to note is that Toyota has even made the statement to the automotive press that their quality is beginning to suffer so they have slowed production to allow for more process and vender checks to correct quality issues. So, even Toyota quality suffers at production volumes equal to their domestic counter parts and so many varying brands and models. Maybe this should be a message to the domestic manufactures. Move to one or two brands, cut you models in half and use quality materials that you can meet your financial needs and price points with at lesser volume. Not really rocket science but apparently difficult to implement in the automotive world. They must after all always build more.