Just curious why doesnt Lexus and other companies use a W8 instead of the V8?

How are you going to get 3 equal banks of cylinder when you only have 8cyl??

a W16 is okay because you can have three banks of 8 cyl, and that block would be shorter than a V16.

Maybe a W9 would be okay :D

How are you going to get 3 equal banks of cylinder when you only have 8cyl??

a W16 is okay because you can have three banks of 8 cyl, and that block would be shorter than a V16.

Um, doesn't 3x8 = 24? :D

Maybe a W9 would be okay :D

I don't think it works that way. The W engine is essentially two V engines side by side. On a V engine you have odd/even cylinders interleaved controlled by 1, 2, or 4 cams typically. I think in the W engine the 'peak in the middle' of the W is the common cam of both V's if that makes sense.

A W8 isn't possible though because each 4 cylinder engine is inline, not a 'V' engine.

VW does the W12 engine because its development is fairly cheap (it's Siamese V6's joined at the hip :D ) plus it may have some packaging advantages over a looooong V12.

damn if only i had a cut-off picture of a W- engine :egads:

damn if only i had a cut-off picture of a W- engine :egads:

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/tech_engine_packaging.htm

Because "V" engine are already complicated and pain in the ass to work on, as compared to "Inline" and "Straight" engines. The only advantage of a "V" engine is that its more compact when compared to "Straight" and "Inline", so when it comes to 8-12 cylinders you're pretty much stuck with "V" configuration. And the only time when "W" configuration is necessary is if you have 16+ cylinders.

Technically that VW motor isnt a "W12", its two "VR6" combined. A true "W" engine would have three banks of four cylinders.

Technically that VW motor isnt a "W12", its two "VR6" combined. A true "W" engine would have three banks of four cylinders.

I don't think so. The cylinders are at the bottom 'valleys' of the W, not the tops. The connecting rods are the lines of the W and the cams at the top. An "M" configuration might have 3 banks of cylinders. :D

Um, doesn't 3x8 = 24? :D
:D :D :D :D :D


I don't think it works that way. The W engine is essentially two V engines side by side. On a V engine you have odd/even cylinders interleaved controlled by 1, 2, or 4 cams typically. I think in the W engine the 'peak in the middle' of the W is the common cam of both V's if that makes sense.

A W8 isn't possible though because each 4 cylinder engine is inline, not a 'V' engine.

VW does the W12 engine because its development is fairly cheap (it's Siamese V6's joined at the hip :D ) plus it may have some packaging advantages over a looooong V12.I may be mistaken, but didn't the Passat have a W8 a while ago?

Yea there was a Passat W8 for about a year or two, but didnt sell to well. I believe the cylinders were built on top of one another. I remember them saying the W engines were actually more compact than their V engines.

http://www.vw.com.tr/models/binek/passatw8/img/w8_pic3.jpg

http://www.vw.com.tr/models/binek/passatw8/img/w8_slpic.jpg

I may be mistaken, but didn't the Passat have a W8 a while ago?

Forgot about that, you're right! Good one.

And a few cars have had V4's so the W8 is made from two V4's sharing the middle crankshaft.

Some great articles I found:

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/smooth5.htm
http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/tech_engine_packaging.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/w8-engine
http://www.answers.com/topic/v4-engine
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/volkswagen-passat-w8-2004886.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W8_engine

looks like you have a lot of unnecessary weight and bulk metal because of the configuration of the W engine, must be a pain to work on also

Looks like its an excuse to make something overly complicated. Sounds like a German idea :)

Looks like its an excuse to make something overly complicated. Sounds like a German idea :)

That's just silly. That's just like saying Toyota's quad cam V8 design is just an excuse to make something overly complicated. ;)

Looks like its an excuse to make something overly complicated. Sounds like a German idea :)

Kinda like the idea of a car...naw that just too complicated.

Kinda like the idea of a car...naw that just too complicated.

Actually a car is simple enough to properly understand; if you know how to work on them or are just into that kind of thing; not all of us are.

Typical, but you completely missed the point of my post. A better analogy would have been if you said: "Kinda like the idea of a car with 6 wheels, one pair behind perpendicular to the other 4 and only used for doing 360 degree turns...naw that just too complicated."

Show me the benefit of a W12 over a V12. You think Ferrari wouldnt be using them if they had a point? They spare no expense and still use V12s.

So we arrive at my original statement about overengineering being the epitome of German car development. Though now, through your folly of the attempted use of sarcasm, we have added a bit more strength.

That's just silly. That's just like saying Toyota's quad cam V8 design is just an excuse to make something overly complicated. ;)

Actually its very simple. Much like RISC processors function; we break things down to make them simpler to work on, understand, and sometimes have added benefits. 4 valve and 2 cam heads allow for a nice positioning of the valves within the combustion chamber for example. There is less valvetrain mass and allows for reliable higher-rpm use. Ever wonder why bikes use DOHC motors? :)

Not a good example, bit. I can show why DOHC designs are superior to SOHC and pushrod motors in various ways; but you can show me nothing benefitting a W motor? Packaging? well we got high power V6s and most V8s are pretty compact these days (other than the modular from Ford), and a W motor has VERY wide heads. Economy? Uh no. Power? Try again.

W12 over V12 for VW b/c of cost. It costs less to just put two V-6s together than develop a brand new V-12 from the ground.
From a sales perspective, you can "offer" the benefits of a W12 or 8 (in the Passat).
W12 is also very compact. The hood of the A8 is much shorter than that of a S-class or 7 series, I believe its as wide as long....

Actually a car is simple enough to properly understand; if you know how to work on them or are just into that kind of thing; not all of us are.



I was actually trying to point out the fallacy in your logic that a complicated irrational idea must somehow be a German one. This logic does not really make sense given the fact that many companies from many different nations have made some irrational decisions. The idea of the car as we know it was German one and at the time was considered to be too complicated, yet look at it now. Complicated ideas get perfected over time. Also the Otto cycle of the engine, German idea. The Diesel engine, you guessed it. The Rotary engine, (not the best idea, but a Japanese company named Mazda has taken that torch and tried to run with it producing moderate success) another invention by a German named Dr. Felix Wankel (Wankel motor).

What about the idea of the gas/electric car as a means to save the world? Over complicated? Yes. Somewhat dangerous considering the equivalent a high voltage power line running underneath your bum. Absolutely. Are they very fuel efficient? Not nearly as fuel efficient as a modern diesel engine. Environmentally friendly? Not when you take into account what happens to the toxic chemicals in those batteries when the car must be disposed of. Do they make sense financially for those who buy them or the company that produces them? Ask any accountant and they will tell you, no. Just one example of an idea thats overly complicated that "gasp" doesn't come from Germany. BTW this idea is Japanese.

Now do I think the Japanese are ridiculous and try to make things too complicated needlessly? no. Again, just pointing out the ridiculousness of your logic given all the good ideas, designs and inventions that have come from Germany.

Nice on mavericck... hybrids - not the right solution so far.

Bean, as 1sicklex said, the W12 was done for cost reasons, slap two narrow angle V6's together to get a big power engine. It does have some packaging advantages too, but the main reason was development cost.

I believe BMW basically did the same thing with their earlier V12 750i/850i engine which was essentially two BMW I6's. :yikes: