Toyota opens new front in truck war
With new Texas factory, Japanese maker takes aim at Ford and Chevy
By Roland Jones
Business editor
MSNBC
Updated: 8:27 a.m. ET Oct. 25, 2006


Indiana-born rock star John Mellencamp may not be the first person that springs to mind when it comes to pickup trucks, but with sales slipping, automakers are painting themselves red, white and blue to capture customers in America’s heartland.

General Motors has hired Mellencamp to record a patriotic tune called “Our Country” for its Chevy Silverado television commercials. “This is our country; this is our truck,” a narrator says in the commercial.

The strategy may seem tacky, but it’s part of a big battle brewing in the automotive business over pickup sales, which are down from 10 to 15 percent this year for the Big Three automakers. And ground zero for that battle is America’s heartland.

Ford and GM’s Chevy division dominate U.S. truck sales, but now Japan’s Toyota is aiming to muscle its way into the American market with its 2007 Tundra truck. The full-size pickup, which was introduced in 1999 and will be relaunched soon with an all-new version, goes up against Chevy’s Silverado, the Dodge Ram and Ford’s F-Series pickup, long the country’s best-selling vehicle and Ford’s bread-and-butter product.

Toyota wants to convince American truck drivers to trade in their U.S.-made vehicles for Japanese Tundras, but with an American twist. The company is preparing to move production of the Tundra to a new plant in Texas, the nation’s biggest pickup market, where one of every four vehicles sold is a pickup, compared with one in every eight elsewhere in the United States.

“Toyota has been expanding by building more plants in North America — they put them in areas where they want to increase their business,” said George Magliano, director of automotive industry research at Global Insight. “The idea is truck buyers become more loyal to a manufacturer that brings jobs and money into their state."

The truck segment is a missing piece in Toyota’s product line-up, which focuses on sedans and also includes smaller crossover vehicles. Toyota is looking to grow and break into new vehicle markets, said Magliano. The American pickup market, which has largely been the domain of the Big Three until now, is very lucrative and a tough one to crack, he added.

“One strength Toyota has is its ability to stick with a strategy,” said Magliano. “They got into the truck market about 10 years ago, and they didn’t have much success right away, but they just kept working at it. They keep on improving a product, and they eventually crack the market and that is how they are gaining market share in the United States.”

Indeed, the new 2007 Tundra is much larger and more powerful than its predecessor, with a 5.7-liter, 381-horsepower V-8 engine, compared with the old 271 horses. Trucks start rolling off the San Antonio assembly line next month and hit the showrooms early next year.

GM and Ford are not taking Toyota’s assault on their turf lying down. At last month’s State Fair of Texas, Ford showed off its latest F-Series pickups, while GM unveiled a redesigned Silverado and the GMC Sierra HD. The Silverado is the No. 2 seller, but sales are down 15 percent from last year, according to research by Autodata, which tracks the industry.

It is no mistake that all the players chose to focus heavy marketing efforts on the Texas fair.

“[Texas] is ground zero for truck leadership,” Mark Fields, Ford’s president of the Americas told The Associated Press. “If you don’t show up in Texas, particularly at a venue like the state fair, you might as well not show up at all. This is where you duke it out. It’s where you make your bones as far as burnishing truck production.”

Toyota’s Tundra play is part of a broader strategy to win over middle America. Earlier this year Toyota announced it plans to become the first foreign manufacturer since the 1950s to supply cars for NASCAR’s top series, entering a Camry — the nation’s best-selling car — in the NASCAR Nextel Cup and Busch series in 2007.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15319160

Wow Toyota is making big moves

It's about time...wonder when Honda will get a clue with their Ridgeline.

Wow 381hp!!! Damn!!!

Its about d@mn time they upgraded the power!
Now that will definitely entice some buyers.

so it has 381hp..what I want to know is the torque figure as I could care less about hp in a truck. I want a torque war :D

Doh, that will leave the Titan in the dust. hehe.

So we will see the same motor in our next LX570?? :D Cool!!!!

Now only if Tundra will be short enough to get into my garage... :)

So we will see the same motor in our next LX570?? :D Cool!!!!

Now only if Tundra will be short enough to get into my garage... :)
I think the Sequoia and LX will get the engine when redesigned, and their sizes will increase as well.

In fact, most Toyota dealerships are afraid that the new Tundra (and future Sequoia) will not fit in their service department stalls. Most dealerships may have to become innovative to take care of such needs.

Its about d@mn time they upgraded the power!
Now that will definitely entice some buyers.

Yes and no. With the exception of a few purpose-built models like the Ford Lightning, Chevy Silverado SS and Dodge Ram SRT10, trucks aren't supposed to be drag racers. Big engines are put into them to do WORK, not haul-a** in the quarter-mile.

It's about time...wonder when Honda will get a clue with their Ridgeline.

Honda would first have to develop a body on frame vehicle. Everything they make is a unibody vehicle. Unibody vehicles would never stand up to the constant rigors of heavy towing, heavy payloads, etc.

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: 381hp :woohoo: I hope the milage is going to be better than the current Tundra..

Haha, im WELL aware they are used for work,
I have a 3/4 ton 8.1L avalanche that i tow cars with and for lighter country duty.
but having a good amount of power will potentially increase mileage by not requiring reeling out to 4K all the time, especially considering it'll have plentiful torque.

Honda would first have to develop a body on frame vehicle. Everything they make is a unibody vehicle. Unibody vehicles would never stand up to the constant rigors of heavy towing, heavy payloads, etc.

The Ridgeline actually uses a hybrid body on frame/unibody chassis design.

It actually has a full truck frame underneath in addition to the unibody design.

Kinda interesting - though of course make no mistake, it is still not well-suited for off-roading or for towing anything more than you might expect out of any compact truck on the market today.:)

LMAO... in one of my forums I guessed that the 5.7L would pump out 334 hp. I was off by 47 hp...

I hope too see this inthe next LX and GX. Hopefully the hybrid version going to crank out some serious power.

The Ridgeline actually uses a hybrid body on frame/unibody chassis design.

It actually has a full truck frame underneath in addition to the unibody design.

Kinda interesting - though of course make no mistake, it is still not well-suited for off-roading or for towing anything more than you might expect out of any compact truck on the market today.:)
ridgeline will do less than compact trucks since it isnt an truck, it is an car.. And edmunds blowing all 4 struts on light off road trip proves it.

ridgeline will do less than compact trucks since it isnt an truck, it is an car.. And edmunds blowing all 4 struts on light off road trip proves it.

Proves what? That it is not suitable for off-road use? I said that already.

Towing? It tows right along side most of the trucks in the compact arena... out-tows a couple competitors, actually.

Brave move indeed!

so whats the tq out of the new tundra? rather have torque than hp

so whats the tq out of the new tundra? rather have torque than hp
considering that LS 460 has similar engine, designed for sedans, 380hp with 370lbs, it is only expected that 5.7L in Tundra (1.0 L higher than LS) produces more than 30% more torque than LS460.

So expect close to 500lbs of torque...

I wonder if this is just a stroked version of the LS600hl engine. Like the original used a 1uz-fe stroked by .7 liters.

Originally Posted by MSNBC
2007 Toyota Tundra's top engine, the i-Force 5.7-liter V8, will produce 381 horsepower. The Tundra will have a significantly more powerful large V8 to offer customers than will Ford, Dodge or Chevy. The F-150 offers the 5.4-liter Triton V8 that produces 300 hp and 365 ft-lbs. of torque, while the Dodge RAM can be had with a 5.7-liter HEMI V8 producing 345 hp and 375 ft-lbs. of torque. Toyota, however, would clearly be aiming at Chevy if this number is accurate, as the Silverado's Vortec MAX 6.0-liter V8 produces 367 hp and 375 ft-lbs. of torque. Toyota promised us back in February that the Tundra would be able to tow 10,000 lbs. with this engine, though since then both Ford and Chevy have increased the maximum towing capacities of their half-ton pickups to 10,500 lbs. With such a powerful V8, the Tundra should have no trouble meeting and/or exceeding the new towing limits of the domestics. Of course, that's assuming the Tundra's frame can take it.


Since it is the top engine, I wonder if there will be a lower output V8 also since the chevy 6.0 is only available on the heavy duty models

This will make fast GXs and LXs

The 6.0 isn't only available on the HD models. In fact it's available on ALL GM half ton trucks except for the basic standard cab work truck.

Now on the half ton trucks and Avalanche it only puts out 367 horsepower @ 5500 rpm and 375 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4300 rpm... whereas on the GMC Sierra Denali it puts out, I think 380hp... and on the Escalade EXT half ton and Escalade SUV it puts out ~403hp.

I kinda wonder if Toyota purposely pushed it that 1 extra hp so they could claim it has more power than any half ton truck on the market (even if only by 1hp in some cases).

old news
http://clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245308

horsepower is absolutely meaningless on a truck. How much torque and at what RPM? Near 500 lb-ft? Yeah right. This engine won't be tuned with all the doo-dads from the LS460, nor will it have a monstrous high compression ratio, nor will it be tuned to run on anything but regular 87 octane fuel. I doubt it will break 400 lb-ft. If it did that'd be amazing for advertising but I really doubt it. "Near 500" is well off.

horsepower is absolutely meaningless on a truck. How much torque and at what RPM? Near 500 lb-ft? Yeah right. This engine won't be tuned with all the doo-dads from the LS460, nor will it have a monstrous high compression ratio, nor will it be tuned to run on anything but regular 87 octane fuel. I doubt it will break 400 lb-ft. If it did that'd be amazing for advertising but I really doubt it. "Near 500" is well off.

Er.. well, PEAK horsepower is not typically a major concern with trucks. The powerBAND is. And one of the components of a powerband is peak torque and at what RPM that peak occurs, but that's still from the full story. If you really want to get down to the nitty-gritty, start checking out the torque curve or horsepower curve from idle to redline.:)

ok :rolleyes: ;)

ok :rolleyes: ;)

I guess that confirms what I was thinking (but not saying) previously... you're one of the many who throws around the terms torque and horsepower without much understanding of how the two are one in the same and what they really mean in terms of RPM.

If I'm incorrect, please feel free to tell me what I said that you disagree with.

SteVTEC very well understands the relationship between hp and torque ;)

SteVTEC very well understands the relationship between hp and torque ;)

Good, then I'm sure he feels embarrassed to have 'accidentally' made a statement so ignorant as "horsepower is absolutely meaningless on a truck".:);) :D

Good, then I'm sure he feels embarrassed to have 'accidentally' made a statement so ignorant as "horsepower is absolutely meaningless on a truck".:);) :D
need me to help you guys stay on topic?

thanks

I don't want to sound arrogant here, guys, but this move is way, WAY, WAY overdue on Toyota's part. It's always easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but I've been saying this for years, not just the day after the game. Toyota should have done this from the very get-go in 1994, when the first T100 / 150 came out, instead of screwing around with mid-sized, mid-engined trucks that were falsely pawned off and marketed as " full-sizers." They were NOT full-sizers, and even the Tundra was not a true full-sizer either.

Now....FINALLY.....we have TRUE Toyota full-sizers, both in truck size and engines, but they are VERY late to the game. If Toyota had paid attantion to its own American-market representatives and done this back in the 90's when it should have been done, the company would be in a much stronger truck marketing position today, but because they didn't ( until now ) they are paying a hefty price.


Nissan did it correctly from the very start with the Titan and made a true full-size truck, but that truck's poor quality and unreliability kept it from being real competition with Detroit's full-sizers. Toyota generally doesn't have that problem....another reason they should have done it years ago.

Speaking of the new Tundra at Sema...

The X-Runner's bigger bro w/the Eaton roots s/c made by Magnusson (same company that has been making the TRD/Eaton Roots S/C in the past) ....
http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=30929&galleryId=44
http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=30931&galleryId=44
http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=30930&galleryId=44
http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=30932&galleryId=44

And the big Motorsports monster...
http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=30933&galleryId=44

Not a Tundra...but iForce V8 powered. My friend at Toyota put majority of this together. It's a Tacoma Access Cab put on a modified/shortened Double Cab Short Bed chassis. :eek2: The last time I saw this thing was a few months back. The cab was on a hoist...and the 2UZ-FE's engine mounts were just being fabbed.

http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=30916&galleryId=44

I'll take my own pics of these particular rigs this week. I will post them up after I return from the show. :)

I'll take my own pics of these particular rigs this week. I will post them up after I return from the show. :)

I know the SEMA show is probably not the best environment for this, flip, being mostly customized and concept vehicles, but if there are any Toyota factory people there, see if there is any word on a big Tundra diesel or a dual-rear wheelie to compete with the Ford/Chevy/Dodge 3500 series.

SteVTEC very well understands the relationship between hp and torque ;)

He is one of the very few guys I PM with questions or comparing cars, MMarshall, Rominl are others that come to mind.

He knows his stuff...way more technical than me.

need me to help you guys stay on topic?

The merits of the power ratings of a truck motor is pretty on topic when discussing... well, the power ratings of a new truck motor!

...IMO:p

- but I think what you're really saying is you don't like people arguing/disagreeing in which case - OK.

I'm not an engineer, but here are some formulas to help you guys in this area:
http://www.iprocessmart.com/techsmart/formulas.htm

I'm not an engineer, but here are some formulas to help you guys in this area:
http://www.iprocessmart.com/techsmart/formulas.htm

Spot on!:)

I wish sometimes manufacturers would just quit it with the peak numbers and give oh I dunno, something like audio manufacturers give with frequency ranges.

Like maybe say xxx average horsepower from xxxx rpm until xxxx rpm, +/- xx horsepower.

Or maybe xxx+ torque or horsepower from xxxx rpm to xxxx rpm - though I know some already do that - but mainly just the ones who have something worth bragging about (a flat and broad torque curve)

I know to the average person that could be confusing, but that might at least give people an idea of the power under the curve on a given motor, short of actual printed out dyno charts.

Wait, hey, that's not a bad idea! Dyno charts in every mag review and press release!:p

Spot on!:)

I wish sometimes manufacturers would just quit it with the peak numbers and give oh I dunno, something like audio manufacturers give with frequency ranges.

Like maybe say xxx average horsepower from xxxx rpm until xxxx rpm, +/- xx horsepower.

Or maybe xxx+ torque or horsepower from xxxx rpm to xxxx rpm - though I know some already do that - but mainly just the ones who have something worth bragging about (a flat and broad torque curve)

I know to the average person that could be confusing, but that might at least give people an idea of the power under the curve on a given motor, short of actual printed out dyno charts.

Wait, hey, that's not a bad idea! Dyno charts in every mag review and press release!:p
That my friend is because of MARKETING. Its how cars with poor reliablity or crappy interiors sell.
Marketing. X car has 240 hp, it has 280 hp, it has 300hp, it has 360hp, it has 420 hp, it has 500hp etc etc etc.

Its one thing non car people seem to care about. Peak power, no matter HOW unusable it is.:egads:

The merits of the power ratings of a truck motor is pretty on topic when discussing... well, the power ratings of a new truck motor!

...IMO:p

- but I think what you're really saying is you don't like people arguing/disagreeing in which case - OK.
so let's see.

i put up a request to ask people to get back on topic, especially after your taunting post which was unnecessary, not funny, and not part of discussing hp and tq.

apparently not only that you didn't agree, you decided to challenge a moderator's request, which is against the forum rules:

Club Lexus Moderators are a group of volunteers to help facilitate discussion on Club Lexus and they interpret and enforce our forum rules. They should not to be argued with in public when enforcing forum rules and guidelines. All members are welcome to speak with the moderators about their concerns in a polite and calm manner in private. If you have a complaint, you can contact the administrator. Do not smart off to moderators. They are here by choice alone, and have been bestowed the privilege of maintaining this wonderful site, and acting on direct authority from the Owner and Administrator himself to enforce the rules, regulations, etiquette, and desired environment. Harassment of moderators and administrators may result in immediate suspension of your access to our forum. If you have any questions, concerns, comments, or issues with a moderator or a moderator decision, DO NOT create a post, please contact an administrator via PM or at administrator@ClubLexus.com.

so let me get it straight here. i have no problem with people discussing and debating here, as long as they are constructive, on topic, and to the point. i do not want to see any personal attacks, taunting, or teasing posts here, and i take that very seriously. moreover, going head to head with a moderator's decision in the public is not something we will allow here as well.

so when you come back in couple of days, learn

so let's see.

i put up a request to ask people to get back on topic, especially after your taunting post which was unnecessary, not funny, and not part of discussing hp and tq.

apparently not only that you didn't agree and decided to challenge a moderator's request, which is against the forum rules:



so let me get it straight here. i have no problem with people discussing and debating here, as long as they are constructive, on topic, and to the point. i do not want to see any personal attacks, taunting, or teasing posts here, and i take that very seriously. moreover, going head to head with a moderator's decision in the public is not something we will allow here as well.

so when you come back in couple of days, learn

Guys, not sure what is going on in Car Chat but its not going to last. We are dead serious about respect and following the rules.

We are ADULTS here, if you cannot follow a topic or listen to a moderators request, maybe join offtopic.net or something....

They still need turbo diesel V8 :D

I guess that confirms what I was thinking (but not saying) previously... you're one of the many who throws around the terms torque and horsepower without much understanding of how the two are one in the same and what they really mean in terms of RPM.

If I'm incorrect, please feel free to tell me what I said that you disagree with.Good, then I'm sure he feels embarrassed to have 'accidentally' made a statement so ignorant as "horsepower is absolutely meaningless on a truck".:);) :DIt's ok because you don't know me, and because I don't post here very much. I should more though, because this is one of my favorite little corners of the net for a lot of different reasons. :) At the same time, this is also why I don't post much on the Internet anymore.

Anyways, I used to post stuff up like this (http://www.v6performance.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7987&sort=1&cat=500&page=3) and this (http://www.v6performance.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9228&sort=1&size=medium&cat=500&page=3) and this (http://www.v6performance.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7521&sort=1&cat=500&page=3) as just a few examples. That's done in Excel, and I wrote the application myself. You dump in specs for the cars right down to frontal area, drag coefficient, and even tire sag factor, along with the best true average right down the middle Dynojet 248C dyno you can find for a car and it plots thrust and acceleration at all speeds, all gears, all RPMs, and then it does the same thing for another car to compare right on top of it. About 25 or 30 charts in all. Can also compare powerband as a percentage, and I even have it calculate aerodynamic drag so that the high speed acceleration curves are accurate. It's usually within +/- 1 mph on the top speed where acceleration hits zero. RACE ENGINEERS have software that does exactly this only of course far more sophisticated and accurate. I stopped posting these on forums because it's just too much for most people. I guess they'd prefer way more ambiguous things like indirect and random magazine times, or far more random street or track encounters where you never really know, and you can argue until you're blue in the face. This was just way too solid because it clearly shows where one car has a distinct advantage over another. At a given speed in a given gear, an engine will be at a certain RPM where it produces "x" amount of torque which will result in a calculated amount of thrust at the wheels, which after accounting for weight and drag factors results in a calculated acceleration. This is either more or less than the compared car in a similar state. Very simple. Analysis like this shows how a little Acura TSX 6MT with only a 2.4L 4-cyl and 200hp and a wimpy 166 lb-ft of torque can beat my 3.0L Maxima at the LOW-END despite my 190hp/205tq. I actually beat out the TSX at the TOP-end despite having less peak horsepower (it's all in the gearing) which is completely counter-intuitive. Even I never would have guessed that. The only way you can really see this is with direct head-to-head thrust analysis like this. The TSX 6MT is an amazing little car. Unfortunately Honda put the most pathetic gearing in the 5AT version and that one is a dog. The one that shows my Maxima beating an Acura CL-S up to about 60 mph, and then after that I get smoked? That made me the most hated person on the Honda forums for a few years. People like to think their cars are all-powerful and superior cars that will beat similarly performing competing cars at all points, all gears, and everything, but that's rarely if ever so, and if it was it would be obvious without even looking at charts like these. It'd be the difference between say a GS430 and the 300. Duh, obviously the 430 is faster. All those cars above (Maxima, CL-S, TSX) can run practically the same times at the track, but they all have very different acceleration curves and profiles. One high-14/low-15 ET is not necessarily equal to another identical ET. The TSX takes off quick but loses steam up top. The CL-S is slow off the line but really hauls after 60 mph. My Maxima is in the middle somewhere. Very different "street" acceleration profiles and butt-dyno feels can still result in the same ET.

I do apologize for the rolling eye smiley, but I think now you see why your comment might have been just a bit amusing to me. I did mean to say "PEAK" horsepower is meaningless on trucks and thought it would have been implied via context but I guess not. Peak Horsepower is an extremely overrated spec and is really just for marketing and advertising IMHO. Everybody thinks more is always better, but even on Formula 1 cars that isn't always true. As for the Tundra engine, I'd like to see how much torque this puppy has and at what RPM it occurs. Yes, you're correct. Even if it has peak torque advertised at 3200 rpm vs say the Silverado 6.0 which has peak torque listed at 4300 rpm that still doesn't mean the Tundra would have "more low-end". I've seen dynos for cars with peak torque rated at something like 2800 or 3200 rpm fall right off a fricken cliff below that, LOL. So you do still need to see the whole curve, dyno it, or just go drive the stupid thing. If you have some flat road, you can also reverse calculate the power curve if you have a decent accelerometer like a G-tech pro thingy. I used to have one of those, and used it to calibrate the accuracy of my Excel program. It's a tad optimistic at low speeds in 1st and 2nd gears due to much greater inertial drag from much higher acceleration rates than what you have on the dyno in 3rd or 4th gear. Power ratings are all at the mercy of the marketing departments anyways though, who commonly manipulate them to sex them up a bit, or completely spin pretty pathetic specs to try to fool people into thinking it's good. Revised SAE J1349 specs as of Aug 2004 will help to tighten that up a TON so there's less room for the marketing dolts to "manipulate" what the engine is actually doing on paper. Maybe I'll pay more attention to power ratings now, because there was TONS of inconsistency before. There's also "SAE Certified" on top of that. If I wanted to, I could actually go and buy all the test data for the Z06 LS7 engine from SAE.org. I'm a member so I get discounts. :D I'm not sure it's out there publicly, but all the official data is available, and rather pricey. Published power curves on window stickers would be nice, but way too much info for 99% of people out there, and still pretty useless unless you have good points of comparison. And the marketing dweebs would manipulate that anyways with all sorts of funky scales to make it look however they wanted. Somebody could easily come across thinking that one car had way way more torque and a better power curve than another when it was really just the stupid scales that were different between the two cars, lol. Too much info = mass confusion. Horsepower is what goes on the stickers and it's all that most people understand, even though it's probably the most useless spec and means relatively little in terms of street car performance and whether you'll actually enjoy driving the car or not. More doesn't necessarily mean faster either, but that's already been covered.

So yeah, I like to think I know at least a little bit about automotive performance and engine power curves, and the difference between power and torque. But thanks for clarifying. ;) Don't feel bad though, because I admit I was being a smartass, set you up a bit, and you fell right into my trap. I had a little fun at your expense and I knew 1sick would get it. This does help to illustrate a much larger point about forums like these, though. All too often people are just "presumed stupid" before they even have a chance to clarify or counterpoint. Or what one says is completely misinterpreted or selectively interpreted negatively and pounced upon and no clarification is even accepted. "You're stupid period." And I think EVERYBODY is guilty of this to vary degrees at one point or another, myself included. That's just the tip of the iceberg though, unfortunately. You could have given me the benefit of the doubt and assumed that I did mean peak horsepower but you didn't. Again, I thought it was implied via context. You then chose to make the most negative possible conclusions about me, although about as far from the truth as you can get. (Granted, I did set you up on the last part). I'm fed up enough with forums these days due to this and tons of other stuff like it that I just don't post much anymore. I'll have to talk to Mike about his "T.E.M." thingy. I can't stand most other forums, but this place I like. :)


I'm sure the final specs on the Tundra's engine will be impressive, but I think that's nothing compared to the Tundra's potential problems. I personally hate the styling although I haven't seen it in person yet, there's no turbodiesel offered yet and Toyota doesn't appear to have a suitable in-house one either, and it'll probably also lack the zillions of configuration options that the Big 2.5 trucks have. It'll probably get more sales than the previous Tundra, but I don't think this'll make a huge impact on the domestic truck market, and Toyota isn't expecting it to either.

That was one awesome read Steve! :thumbup:

Can you send me the excel spreadsheet? I would like to do the same calibration on my car. Thanks!

My email address is - hameed at prudensconsulting dot com

Spot on!:)

I wish sometimes manufacturers would just quit it with the peak numbers and give oh I dunno, something like audio manufacturers give with frequency ranges.

Like maybe say xxx average horsepower from xxxx rpm until xxxx rpm, +/- xx horsepower.

Or maybe xxx+ torque or horsepower from xxxx rpm to xxxx rpm - though I know some already do that - but mainly just the ones who have something worth bragging about (a flat and broad torque curve)

I know to the average person that could be confusing, but that might at least give people an idea of the power under the curve on a given motor, short of actual printed out dyno charts.

Wait, hey, that's not a bad idea! Dyno charts in every mag review and press release!:p
every Toyota and Lexus engine has its dyno torque and hp curve posted either in brochures or on official Toyota/Lexus websites.

So yes, manufacturers are doing it already - at least some of them. In our European models, we have it for every car, including 69hp Yarii.

I'm sure the final specs on the Tundra's engine will be impressive, but I think that's nothing compared to the Tundra's potential problems. I personally hate the styling although I haven't seen it in person yet, there's no turbodiesel offered yet and Toyota doesn't appear to have a suitable in-house one either, and it'll probably also lack the zillions of configuration options that the Big 2.5 trucks have. It'll probably get more sales than the previous Tundra, but I don't think this'll make a huge impact on the domestic truck market, and Toyota isn't expecting it to either.

Whats the % of turbodiesels sold as compared to petrol engines in F150? I doubt it is very large number.

Tundra will make huge impact on the future of US pickup truck market. Even if it only just meets its sales goals, which are relativly modest IMHO, we are talking about taking additional 2 billion in revenue from Big 3 compared to 2006 Tundra.

Thats what most people that dont work in sales dont understand - to make impact, you dont have to be #1 in sales. What you have to do is take sales. And this Tundra will do that.

Whats the % of turbodiesels sold as compared to petrol engines in F150? I doubt it is very large number.I don't know as far as specifically half-ton (usually a diesel isn't offered), but the domestic pickup truck market is something like 40% turbodiesel.

Tundra will make huge impact on the future of US pickup truck market. Even if it only just meets its sales goals, which are relativly modest IMHO, we are talking about taking additional 2 billion in revenue from Big 3 compared to 2006 Tundra.

Thats what most people that dont work in sales dont understand - to make impact, you dont have to be #1 in sales. What you have to do is take sales. And this Tundra will do that.Then stay tuned to autonews and see what the domestic conquest rate is for the new Tundra. I'm sure there's plenty of disgruntled domestic pickup truck owners that would potentially consider the Tundra, but then again the Titan hasn't exactly made any huge inroads. It shot itself in the foot though, because the quality on that truck was dismal. Maybe the Toyota will be better. But domestic truck owners are fiercely loyal, and even if it's a "better" truck they still might just stick with their domestics. Sorta like how the domestics are making a lot of perfectly good cars nowadays, but a lot of import owners will never seriously consider them because they just like their imports and are biased towards that side no matter how good the domestics might be. People tend to find something they like and stick with it no matter how good the competition is, and that happens on all sides.

This is why Toyota has been trying so hard to play themselves off as "America's car company" in their TV ads, and building the truck in Texas giving Texans jobs, and competing in the Nascar trucks series. They're trying to overcome all of the social obstacles to selling a non-domestic truck here. GM has done similar things by sending factory backed Pontiac GTOs to "import land" drift competitions.

im looking forward to Toyota's new full size truck, it should do pretty well and be very competitive.

i live in a heavy truck populated area and i know many people who will get rid of their domestic full size trucks for this new Toyota.

it would be great if they offered a Diesel, they would make a killing off of it.

the auto manufactures do their cold weather testing up here, i cant wait to see what they have this year.

I don't know as far as specifically half-ton (usually a diesel isn't offered), but the domestic pickup truck market is something like 40% turbodiesel.

Then stay tuned to autonews and see what the domestic conquest rate is for the new Tundra. I'm sure there's plenty of disgruntled domestic pickup truck owners that would potentially consider the Tundra, but then again the Titan hasn't exactly made any huge inroads. It shot itself in the foot though, because the quality on that truck was dismal. Maybe the Toyota will be better. But domestic truck owners are fiercely loyal, and even if it's a "better" truck they still might just stick with their domestics. Sorta like how the domestics are making a lot of perfectly good cars nowadays, but a lot of import owners will never seriously consider them because they just like their imports and are biased towards that side no matter how good the domestics might be. People tend to find something they like and stick with it no matter how good the competition is, and that happens on all sides.

This is why Toyota has been trying so hard to play themselves off as "America's car company" in their TV ads, and building the truck in Texas giving Texans jobs, and competing in the Nascar trucks series. They're trying to overcome all of the social obstacles to selling a non-domestic truck here. GM has done similar things by sending factory backed Pontiac GTOs to "import land" drift competitions.
keep in mind that current Tundra still sold 30%-50% better than Titan, and that Tundra sales are up, in 6th year of production...

New facility, 21 on-site suppliers invest nearly $1.6 billion, will employ
more than 4,000

SAN ANTONIO, Nov. 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Toyota today celebrated the opening of Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Texas (TMMTX), the company's new $1.28 billion plant in San Antonio. Toyota officials, including ToyotaMotor Corporation honorary chairman Dr. Shoichiro Toyoda and president Katsuaki Watanabe, joined Texas Governor Rick Perry and other local officials to witness production of the first two all-new Tundra pickup
trucks.

To commemorate the event, Toyota announced a $600,000 donation to the National Center for Family Literacy (NCFL) to establish the Toyota Family
Literacy Program in three schools in San Antonio's Southwest Independent School District.

Toyota's San Antonio plant was announced in February 2003, andconstruction began later that year. When the plant reaches full operations next spring, it will have the capacity to produce 200,000 Tundra full-size
pickup trucks and employ 2,000 team members.

The plant's investment was originally estimated at $800 million, butgrew to approximately $1.28 billion because of a capacity expansion for 50,000 more trucks; rising material costs, especially for steel; andadditional infrastructure needed for the on-site suppliers.

Additionally, the 2,000-acre site houses 21 suppliers who produce parts and components and ship them directly into the plant. The on-site suppliers include seven minority-owned joint ventures, will employ 2,100 at full production, and have cumulatively invested approximately $300 million.

"As Toyota moves forward into a new era, this new plant is a dynamic symbol of our bright future," said Mr. Watanabe. "Here in Texas, we have assembled a great team of people, a great plant, and a great truck. Along with great people, this is one of the most advanced automotive plants on the earth. It has the latest in technology and is using the best production
and environmental techniques learned from 60 plants we operate around the world."

"Today is the culmination of nearly four years of hard work and dedication by all the members of Team Texas," said Hidehiko "T.J." Tajima, president of TMMTX. "It would have been impossible to reach this day without the strong partnership of our team members, construction partners, suppliers, and all those in the government and community. We now begin the
next stage in what will be a very long and very successful partnership with San Antonio, Bexar County and Texas."

"The full-size pickup truck market is, by far, the single-largest opportunity for Toyota's future growth plans in the U.S.," said Don Esmond, senior vice president of automotive operations, Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A.,
Inc. "Thanks to this highly-efficient plant, the in-house suppliers and all the team members, we plan to take full advantage of that opportunity. The
new Tundra will arrive in showrooms in February. Our production and sales goals are ambitious, yet realistic, and reflect our confidence in the product."

"When Toyota announced it would build a plant in Texas, it was the shot in the arm we needed to transform our economy and begin creating jobs in Texas again," said Texas Governor Rick Perry. "Today employment is at an all-time high, we have a record state surplus and the Texas economy is leading the nation. Toyota is an important part of the Texas economic
revival because their investment means thousands of jobs and millions of dollars in wages for Texas families."

Toyota (NYSE: TM) established operations in North America in 1957. By
2008, Toyota will have the annual capacity to build about 2 million cars
and trucks in 15 plants across North America. There are more than 1,700
Toyota, Lexus and Scion dealerships in North America, which sell more than
2.5 million vehicles a year. Toyota directly employs nearly 40,000 people
in North America. Toyota's investment in North America is valued at more
than $17.6 billion, and annual purchasing from North American suppliers
totals more than $29 billion.



SOURCE Toyota

They still need turbo diesel V8 :D

u and ur turbo diesels
lol ;)

actually i would love to see a diesel in the new tundra too
but we all have to wait to see what toyota can do with the shares of Isuzu it just bought off from GM...

does anyone have the torque spec of this engine yet???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oe3Lk5Wgjw

Mr Man

Just got some very reliable info...

The 5.7 liter engine will make 381hp at 5600rpm and 406 lb tq at 3600rpm.

5.7 will have dual variable valve timing, timing chain and 6 speed.

My source is still working on the 4.7 engine, and MPG numbers. Not as good a gm's MPG but not yet 100% sure.


morepower
Sales guy got Hi's brochures, heres what he said.(
Hey everybody,
Well we just got our brochures in and looks like the hp numbers were correct 381@5600RPM 406@3600RPM
Just thought I'd share) so it was true AFTER ALL.

my neighbor across the street (who is a toyota dealer/exec IDK) has a new Tundra, anybody want pics???

it's amusing he had a new camry before anybody else, his wife has a senna they also have an FJ cruiser...for X-mas his/her father pulled in with a '06 LS

for X-mas his/her father pulled in with a '06 LS

07?.........

my neighbor across the street (who is a toyota dealer/exec IDK) has a new Tundra, anybody want pics???

it's amusing he had a new camry before anybody else, his wife has a senna they also have an FJ cruiser...for X-mas his/her father pulled in with a '06 LS
sounds like my family :-)

http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent001/IMG_7980.jpg

damn, that side mirror is huge... if it hits you in the head, head is gone!

damn, that side mirror is huge... if it hits you in the head, head is gone!

And I think they're folded.

Anyone see the commercials tonight during the Colts defensive massacre of the Chiefs? :) They aired on the first two commercial breaks after the 2nd half started....

It was pretty cool actually; I laughed... they are playing the "bigger is better" theme in this case.

damn, that side mirror is huge... if it hits you in the head, head is gone!

Side mirrors on full-size trucks rated to tow large trailers HAVE to be large, spwolf...to take into account the trailer width and see back past it. Otherwise the view would be blocked.

Side mirrors on full-size trucks rated to tow large trailers HAVE to be large, spwolf...to take into account the trailer width and see back past it. Otherwise the view would be blocked.
wasnt saying that it shouldnt be, just that it is damn huge.

nothing wrong with big side mirrors on any car...

07?.........

his father pulled in the driveway with an '06, he didn't get a new one for X-mas.