I would probably rank these cars the same way in this case though however . . .
C&D Bullet Sedans #1 E63, #2 S6, #3 M5
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C&D Bullet Sedans #1 E63, #2 S6, #3 M5
Latest C&D has the 2007 M5 with stick up against the S6 and E63.
Apparently with the stick M5 you can not totally disable the traction/stability control. Thus the rankings
#1 E36 (231 points)
#2 S6 (230 points)
#3 M5 (213 points)
I personally think that Lexus fired the engineer who wouldn't allow the VDM to be disabled and BMW hired the guy
BTW amazing how close the S6 came to winning it - its power shortage was the issue. Also of note, they really liked the E63s AMG tuned Airmatic suspension.
Apparently with the stick M5 you can not totally disable the traction/stability control. Thus the rankings
#1 E36 (231 points)
#2 S6 (230 points)
#3 M5 (213 points)
I personally think that Lexus fired the engineer who wouldn't allow the VDM to be disabled and BMW hired the guy
BTW amazing how close the S6 came to winning it - its power shortage was the issue. Also of note, they really liked the E63s AMG tuned Airmatic suspension.
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Just got my copy last night. Haven't read through that article yet but I was shocked to see the C&D's much-anticipated manual M5 in the last place, losing to two slush-box competitors. A little disappointed about the S6. Too slow for that kind of spec figures and in that class.
About Lexus' VDM. There's a small paragraph covered by one of the major car magazine a year ago, saying that there's a way to defeat the "nanny" on the IS350, but the handling of the car became so unpredictable. Toyota still has a lot to learn from the German competitors about driving dynamic and chassis design.
About Lexus' VDM. There's a small paragraph covered by one of the major car magazine a year ago, saying that there's a way to defeat the "nanny" on the IS350, but the handling of the car became so unpredictable. Toyota still has a lot to learn from the German competitors about driving dynamic and chassis design.
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While not perfect, I still think it is the best of all the mags. I do not like the "Got to Have It Factor" nor do I understand it. However the other stuff makes sense - as does the way they calculate it (average of the editors scores).
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Just got my copy last night. Haven't read through that article yet but I was shocked to see the C&D's much-anticipated manual M5 in the last place, losing to two slush-box competitors. A little disappointed about the S6. Too slow for that kind of spec figures and in that class.
About Lexus' VDM. There's a small paragraph covered by one of the major car magazine a year ago, saying that there's a way to defeat the "nanny" on the IS350, but the handling of the car became so unpredictable. Toyota still has a lot to learn from the German competitors about driving dynamic and chassis design.
About Lexus' VDM. There's a small paragraph covered by one of the major car magazine a year ago, saying that there's a way to defeat the "nanny" on the IS350, but the handling of the car became so unpredictable. Toyota still has a lot to learn from the German competitors about driving dynamic and chassis design.
Granted, they arent Porsche nor are they perfect, but they do know what they are doing and know how to ask for help (from companies such as Lotus...which they used to own part of) when they dont. Their product is a result of their market and the ****** who file lawsuits because of their stupidity/lack of driving skills
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Tell that to the engineers of the AE86 through AE101 corolla Levin & Trueno, MKIV Supra, 3 generations of MR2s and 7 generations of celica fwd & 3 generations awd.
Granted, they arent Porsche nor are they perfect, but they do know what they are doing and know how to ask for help (from companies such as Lotus...which they used to own part of) when they dont. Their product is a result of their market and the ****** who file lawsuits because of their stupidity/lack of driving skills
Granted, they arent Porsche nor are they perfect, but they do know what they are doing and know how to ask for help (from companies such as Lotus...which they used to own part of) when they dont. Their product is a result of their market and the ****** who file lawsuits because of their stupidity/lack of driving skills
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Sometimes I think that the 5 series and all BMW's that come with the iDrive get an unjustly deserved bad rap. Mainly because, the guys that are reviewing the cars usually don't have the patience, nor sometimes I think the mental capacity, to deal with something like iDrive or any system like it. I know more than one person that has the iDrive in their BMW's and love the system. The reviewers of a lot of these mags don't have a lot of time with the car... usually it's just a day or two. It's just like any other techno gimmick... it takes some time to figure it out. Once you do, it's as easy as pie.
I do agree somewhat with their rants on the computers taking over the joy of driving a car like the M5... but they gotta get used to it and quit their whining. Cars are NEVER going to go back to the way they used to be... Time to buck up face the facts. Some of those guys are just dinosaurs that are just stuck in the Tar Pits... waiting for extinction to come around.
They complained and complained and complained about the SMG system in the M5... when they get a 6 speed... they complain some more, and then give it a poor ranking. It's like they will never be satisfied...
I do agree somewhat with their rants on the computers taking over the joy of driving a car like the M5... but they gotta get used to it and quit their whining. Cars are NEVER going to go back to the way they used to be... Time to buck up face the facts. Some of those guys are just dinosaurs that are just stuck in the Tar Pits... waiting for extinction to come around.
They complained and complained and complained about the SMG system in the M5... when they get a 6 speed... they complain some more, and then give it a poor ranking. It's like they will never be satisfied...
Last edited by Stage3; Dec 28, 2006 at 12:16 PM.
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How come the cars you listed are all dated? What happened to the company's product development in this century? Plus, I don't recall people praising the 3rd gen MR2 and the latest Celica for their handling or lack there of. The MKIV Supra is a straight-road rocket, but it sucks at turns compares to its major competitors (M3, 300ZX, RX7, C4/C5 Vettes). How do I know? I own one as well.
Of all the cars you listed, only the M3 and the RX7 turn better than the MKIV supra, mostly due to how much more it weights than them. Then again, where I live we dont get USDM cars, so maybe the suspension was tuned differently for an american public.
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And no I wasnt saying that Toyota/Lexus' market doesnt have competent drivers, just that they have more of a conservative image to keep, and Im sure their management wouldnt like the public and press to perceive that they are realeasing an 'unsafe' car.... where as this is considered as perfectly normal for ferrari/porsche etc to do. Its an Image/perception thing
anyway...Sorry for carrying the thread a little offtopic, it was never my intention
Lead Lap
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last i checked its 2006 and the MR2 and Celica were stopped in 2005. I dont know where you got that they dont handle from, because the MR2 spyder handles like a go cart and the 7th gen celica has been hailed as one of the best handling front drivers out there.......surely YOU must be confused. Even if most of the cars are dated, my point is that they know how, not wether or not the apply this knowledge.
Of all the cars you listed, only the M3 and the RX7 turn better than the MKIV supra, mostly due to how much more it weights than them. Then again, where I live we dont get USDM cars, so maybe the suspension was tuned differently for an american public.
Of all the cars you listed, only the M3 and the RX7 turn better than the MKIV supra, mostly due to how much more it weights than them. Then again, where I live we dont get USDM cars, so maybe the suspension was tuned differently for an american public.
Supra, with TEMS, still doesn't handle as well as the non-active-suspension equipped E36 M3 and FD.
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