Taken from a BMW dealership employee...(taken from VWvortex)

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I just had a conversation with the BMW Field Engineer assigned to my dealership regarding 335s. It's been known for a long time that when a technician connects diagnostic equipment to a vehicle, a report is generated that contains the 'vehicle order' and each night all of the day's reports are transmitted to BMW. The vehicle order is contains all of the information about vehicle control units including their hardware version and all of the binary coding for them.

BMW has developed a tool that compares the vehicle order of each 335 to the known vehicle order at time of manufacture. Any deviations in the binary coding of the DME automatically alert engineers that the code requires further inspection. If the code related to boost has been altered to create a high-boost scenario, the engine warranty is immediately terminated.

To date, they have terminated 54 warranties.

ouch......

wonder if they saw that one coming?

Wow that sucks, but its reasonable.

Older cars with none of those gadgets for the win!!

We will surely see more of this in upcoming months as it hits people on forums but IMO, very similar to how Mitsu was terminating warranties on Evo's when they found about people tracking/dragging them
Wow that sucks, but its reasonable.

Older cars with none of those gadgets for the win!!
lol, ftw!

Also, this makes DINAN look great as his products are warrentied.

That's why you set it back to it's default setting before you go to dealer.

That's why you set it back to it's default setting before you go to dealer.

That is what some have said but it seems they (the dealers) can still tell something was tampered with.:sad:

Come on now, what did people think? BMW was just gonna be like, "sure lets let our 335i owners flash thier car, put exhaust, tune it and run wiht M3s which cost a hell of alot more." I've said this since the beggining(do a search:D), BMW does not want this car being compared to the M3 in any performence way. They want to keep thier M3 owners happy and pist off when a 335i blows past them.

There is a difference between changing/flashing the ECU and using a Xede, which does not alter the ECU in any way. Luckily Xede's are available.

Besides, until I actually hear of an owner losing his warranty...well, it's only as good as the time it takes to type it. AFAIK the vishnu xede has been installed in quite a few cars and no one has reported any warranty issues.

There is a difference between changing/flashing the ECU and using a Xede, which does not alter the ECU in any way. Luckily Xede's are available.

Besides, until I actually hear of an owner losing his warranty...well, it's only as good as the time it takes to type it. AFAIK the vishnu xede has been installed in quite a few cars and no one has reported any warranty issues.
Are you gonna chip, or not? Or maybe wait for Dinan? Or have you chipped:D ?

There is a difference between changing/flashing the ECU and using a Xede, which does not alter the ECU in any way. Luckily Xede's are available.

Besides, until I actually hear of an owner losing his warranty...well, it's only as good as the time it takes to type it. AFAIK the vishnu xede has been installed in quite a few cars and no one has reported any warranty issues.

Thanks for bringing the good news revelation. :thumbup:

Are you gonna chip, or not? Or maybe wait for Dinan? Or have you chipped:D ?

I have not modified the internals of my car in any way yet except the addition of coilovers. I am not certain what I will do come spring; since the AT only has one oil cooler I am going to wait until I get more km on the car to decide.

FWIW, I am not saying this isn't true. In fact I would guess that it probably *is* (to some extent, I don't know about voiding 54 warranties), but until someone who actually owns the car can confirm it I remain skeptical. We all remember the "omg they all overheat" thing in October that turned out to be totally bogus.

FYI: 10char.

Yes, what you quoted is indeed an issue when it comes to reflashing your ECU since doing so does alter the DME code. Even reflashing back to stock will leave traces of tampering. Fortunately, our approach does not modify the ECU in any way. Just the signal that come into and go out of the ECU. And all the signals that are recorded (those going into the ECU) are within normal operating parameters so that they wont raise any red flags if/when looked at.

But Zoeb2s had it right in the end, if you truly are concerned about your warranty above anything else, leave your car stock :)

Cheers,
shiv

There is a difference between changing/flashing the ECU and using a Xede, which does not alter the ECU in any way. Luckily Xede's are available.

Besides, until I actually hear of an owner losing his warranty...well, it's only as good as the time it takes to type it. AFAIK the vishnu xede has been installed in quite a few cars and no one has reported any warranty issues.
yeah, but they could still possibly track that as well...

I'm not surprised. I went over to the VW dealership today to get my cousin an oil filter for his Golf VR6 and on the wall in Spanish they had a noticed about adding certain types of aftermarket parts and the negative effectives on vehicles under warranty.

yeah, but they could still possibly track that as well...

Yes, what you quoted is indeed an issue when it comes to reflashing your ECU since doing so does alter the DME code. Even reflashing back to stock will leave traces of tampering. Fortunately, our approach does not modify the ECU in any way. Just the signal that come into and go out of the ECU. And all the signals that are recorded (those going into the ECU) are within normal operating parameters so that they wont raise any red flags if/when looked at.

But Zoeb2s had it right in the end, if you truly are concerned about your warranty above anything else, leave your car stock :)

Cheers,
shiv

Again, until an actual owner confirms it this remains as "real" as the overheating issues at the track in Illinois.

Manufacturers are smart to be able to detect engine mods and to void warranties because why should they fix engine damage from mods they don't authorize?

The days of modding an engine or in any mechanical, electronic or electrical way and keeping a warranty are numbered. Only a matter of time before the car keeps track of when the battery is disconnected, when a fuse is removed, when a wire is cut, etc.

If the software gurus at BMW did their coding right and thought of a boost tuning change down the road, it would indeed be lights out for tuning.
If the car has a set boost value, and it exceeds it, it may throw a new value into a private memory location that only BMW has decoding for. Condition flags aren't that hard to setup.

Then from there until a tuner is fully capable of reading and writing in BMW's (im guessing proprietary) format, then you'd be SOL. There's a whole bevy of things the coders could have done to ensure that any deviation from stock at all would result in a failed permanent checksum.

Taken from a BMW dealership employee...(taken from VWvortex)

Quote »
I just had a conversation with the BMW Field Engineer assigned to my dealership regarding 335s. It's been known for a long time that when a technician connects diagnostic equipment to a vehicle, a report is generated that contains the 'vehicle order' and each night all of the day's reports are transmitted to BMW. The vehicle order is contains all of the information about vehicle control units including their hardware version and all of the binary coding for them.

BMW has developed a tool that compares the vehicle order of each 335 to the known vehicle order at time of manufacture. Any deviations in the binary coding of the DME automatically alert engineers that the code requires further inspection. If the code related to boost has been altered to create a high-boost scenario, the engine warranty is immediately terminated.

To date, they have terminated 54 warranties.

We will surely see more of this in upcoming months as it hits people on forums but IMO, very similar to how Mitsu was terminating warranties on Evo's when they found about people tracking/dragging them
lol, ftw!

Also, this makes DINAN look great as his products are warrentied.

They only void the engine warranty (if all this is true) which I think is very reasonable. This is very different from Mitsu who voids all warranty period if you track/drag the car.

This won't deter the real ballers. They are going to do it anyway. Other chickens like me would wait for the warranty to end then mod it or go with Dinan.

They only void the engine warranty (if all this is true) which I think is very reasonable. This is very different from Mitsu who voids all warranty period if you track/drag the car.

This won't deter the real ballers. They are going to do it anyway. Other chickens like me would wait for the warranty to end then mod it or go with Dinan.
i thought you said you will sell BMW when warranty goes out? :-)

There is a difference between changing/flashing the ECU and using a Xede, which does not alter the ECU in any way. Luckily Xede's are available.

Besides, until I actually hear of an owner losing his warranty...well, it's only as good as the time it takes to type it. AFAIK the vishnu xede has been installed in quite a few cars and no one has reported any warranty issues.

All it takes is a datalogger to write information to memory in a seperate module. Any computer tech guy with a little hardware knowledge could EASILY write up a design to know when ANY changes are made to the default settings; from outside sources like a XEDE or a chip.

Unless the XEDE is specifically designed to intercept ALL signals being saved into memory; then it isn't going to help.

I understand your cautious approach... but all it takes is a little memory readout to say the boost, ignition timing, or fuel tuning went WAY out of factory normal specs. Using a XEDE isn't going to alter the datalogging; IF the car has that; which it'd be very easy to do.

I don't know enough about how the ECU of a car works to comment, all I can do is reference the guy who does.


Yes, what you quoted is indeed an issue when it comes to reflashing your ECU since doing so does alter the DME code. Even reflashing back to stock will leave traces of tampering. Fortunately, our approach does not modify the ECU in any way. Just the signal that come into and go out of the ECU. And all the signals that are recorded (those going into the ECU) are within normal operating parameters so that they wont raise any red flags if/when looked at.

But Zoeb2s had it right in the end, if you truly are concerned about your warranty above anything else, leave your car stock :)

Cheers,
shiv

Wait until one of the more experienced Audi/VW ecu tuners come into this market.

many Audi / VW engines are tuned such as 1.8T, 2.0T, etc ... and they have developed methods to 'hide' the code changes from regular service checkups, and even have ways to program different modes, e.g. standard mode, 95ron, 100 ron mode!

Welcome to the world of FASTA. we've already replaced a rear turbo in a 335i and i think we've replaced a motor in another one. I think both of them were done under warranty.

Imo, Shiv@Vishnu has the best approach to modifying the 335i's boost and other settings on the car without have to reflash or encode the DME. Anytime the DME has been re-encoded it registers a new part number for the control unit which is visible to the BMW technican support guys whenever the FASTA data is sent over when dealing with a problem. Even if its been reflashed back to stock they can tell how many times the control unit has been programmed and if that is not in the vehicles history for the dealership, it has obviously been flashed elsewhere.

Wait until one of the more experienced Audi/VW ecu tuners come into this market.

many Audi / VW engines are tuned such as 1.8T, 2.0T, etc ... and they have developed methods to 'hide' the code changes from regular service checkups, and even have ways to program different modes, e.g. standard mode, 95ron, 100 ron mode!

This is true...BMW's are a bit new to this game...

The days of modding an engine or in any mechanical, electronic or electrical way and keeping a warranty are numbered. Only a matter of time before the car keeps track of when the battery is disconnected, when a fuse is removed, when a wire is cut, etc.

If a company penalizes you for disconnecting a f'ing battery I wouldn't buy their product to begin with! ;)


Oh yeah, and I'd mod the BMW anyway...

i thought you said you will sell BMW when warranty goes out? :-)

yep, that's another good option also. :)

yep, that's another good option also. :)

What'll be its' replacement?

What'll be its' replacement?
another one with warranty.:p

another one with warranty.:p

haha alright. A banglized one? or a the previous gen.? Because I would imagine it would be a little bit difficult to find a previous gen. with a facory warranty these days. Thought about extending your warranty?

Manufacturers are smart to be able to detect engine mods and to void warranties because why should they fix engine damage from mods they don't authorize?

The days of modding an engine or in any mechanical, electronic or electrical way and keeping a warranty are numbered. Only a matter of time before the car keeps track of when the battery is disconnected, when a fuse is removed, when a wire is cut, etc.

They already log when the battery is disconnected. The big difference between the old ECMs and the new ones is the new ones are time aware, and the old ones are not.

Besides all this - if you want to mod, be a man about it and accept responsibility for the results of your mods. BMW/Lexus/etc. did not sign up to sponsor your racing program just because you bought a car from them. I despise warranty fraud.

voiding warranties is reasonable, just going to be a rude awakening for some 335 modders

I don't see anything new about any of this. Every car company says they will void that part of the warranty if modified and was the probably cause of damage. I see this as the exact same as every car manufacturer saying they will void your suspension warranty if you lower the car. It is perfectly reasonable. However, if they deny other parts of your warranty that is a different story.

They only void the engine warranty (if all this is true) which I think is very reasonable. This is very different from Mitsu who voids all warranty period if you track/drag the car.

This won't deter the real ballers. They are going to do it anyway. Other chickens like me would wait for the warranty to end then mod it or go with Dinan.

What is the point of waiting till your engine/tranny warranty end? If the car dies in either scenario, you will have to foot the bill. Might as well do it sooner, then sell the car before it gets to those problem years.

Sucks for the used car owner who will be screwed.

I can see BMW extending the boost to tranny problems. IE, the tranny was not meant to handle the added HP. This is exactly why I didnt go turbo again. It just seems like too much temptation and too many potential headaches.

Under the Magnuson-Moss Act imposed by the Federal government, a dealer / manufacturer cannot just void your warranty unless they can prove it specifically caused a failure. I don't think any manufacturer cannot circumvent federal law.

That's the way the law sounds. In truth, you have to prove your mods didn't cause the problem, and if it goes to a hearing, you'll be up against some very expert witnesses. It's all about who you know, and what they're willing to do for you. Your service advisor can be your best friend or your worst nightmare.

Upping the boost, chaging the Air/Fuel Ratio... can be linked to almost any engine seizure failure you get.

If you have a problem with the tranny.... IE grinding etc.... can easily be linked to any major power uprade.

Remember guys, 99.9% of the time, more power than stock = shorter lifespan than stock...

This isn't the most ridiculous warranty info I've heard, however. Winner of that one goes to Lamborghini cutting the warranty if you add aftermarket wheels.

In fact, minus the detection part, this is what has kept me from modding my cars in the past heavily.