I own an IS350, and I don't plan on changing the oil until about 15k miles or 1 year...

The point of this thread is my 2005 S-Type Jaguar 4.2 V8... I purchased it back in spring of 2004. It's a March 2004 build. It still has the factory oil in it... I don't drive it that much, mostly stop and go for errands on the weekends. So pretty harsh on the engine. Average trip is less than 1 mile... It is about to turn 3 years old and I decided I'd change the oil now, when the car has around 8000 miles, even though the scheduled maintenance is not until 10000 miles :D

Anyway, I know people in the IS forum will be curious, but I wanted to post here in the general forum since it's a non-lexus car...

BUT, I've never sent oil in for "analysis", so I wanted to ask people where I should send it in... Is there a "Best Place" do to so?

Also, I've started a poll, very simple... Do you think my oil will still be in good condition after almost 3 years of sitting in the engine and being driven in only stop and go traffic for VERY short runs... The car has over 8000 miles, and will probably have about 8500 by the time I send the oil in next month...

Oh, btw, I floor my car almost every time I drive it... I don't baby it at all...

This thread is a joke, right?

lol... This from the same person who says proper break-in procedure is to drive it like you stole it. C'mon guy... 3 years???

i call bs on this

it's only 50 bucks to change oil and 45K for a new car. Change it as you are making a favor to the guy that buying your car.

My peer at work just got her oil changed in her CLK 350. IT cost $130 bucks. Synthetics and all. But it was at 15k miles.

I do 5k miles.

I say wait for another 3 years.

I was doing with Mobil 1 about 3,000 to 3,500 miles given that I race. Now I switched over to 0W30 German Castrol and we will see just how good this miracle oil is (it has been a miracle thus far).

However, 3 years????!!!!

Oil should at least be changed out once a year, regardless of mileage. Case in point. My cousin has not driven his 1995 VW Golf VR6 for almost a year, been working on it, painting, modifications to the engine, etc. Smelled the 0W40 Mobil 1 on the dipstick and it smelled like s...t and looked like dark chocolate fudge. When we started the car up, felt like eating a Chocolate Suicide (or whatever they call that dessert). Dump that oil out and refresh it.

You do realise he leases cars and doesn't exceed the mileage limitations? He's essentially renting the car for the lease period, and really couldn't care less about the condition of the engine when it is returned. Unless there is something in the contract that says he has to follow the recommended maintenance or suffer a penalty, why not? Also, lets say the penalty is $250 for not doing the oil changes once a year. Bet it's cheaper to pay the penalty.

We're all enthusiasts here and we all like to baby our cars. I think Technique is very practical from a dollars and cents perspective, as well as a personal time wasted perspective. We just wouldn't do it his way because we see the car as an important investment. He sees it just like anyone would see a rental.

So, my bet is the oil is going to be bad if you send it to Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) for analysis because the TBN will be way too low from water and acid contamination. Send it off, and let us know!

So, my bet is the oil is going to be bad if you send it to Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) for analysis because the TBN will be way too low from water and acid contamination. Send it off, and let us know!

OK, I requested the kit from Blackstone Labs... Says 2-3 weeks for delivery... I'll keep you posted when it arrives and take pics of the oil when I drain it...

You're worried about metal particles in the oil? I'd be worried about water...

This is why I never buy used cars. You can rarely trust that the previous owners properly maintained them.

blackstone labs is probably one of the best places for an oil analysis

Oil will deteriorate in an engine regardless of mileage its time that rots it, I didnt change my oil one time in my prelude for 6 months (only went 3k miles in that time) and when it came out it was disgusting. Time aged it bad

You cant do that to a brand new IS350. Just change the oil on time, even do it yourself if your looking to save the huge costs.

There is a grey area between 3k/3k being stupid and going three years.

That's why BMW holds its used car value better. Original owners or the drivers who lease the car prepaid for the "free" maintenance, and there's a computer in the car calculating when the car should be in service by factoring in how the car was driven (usually over 10K miles due to the larger oil capacity and very good OEM oil filter). All these encourage the users to take their cars to service without guessing, and keep the car better maintained.

Isn't the recommendation every 5000 miles OR 6 months, whichever is first...

BTW, the scheduled maintenance on Jaguars is free at the dealership, just like it was on my BMW M3, so I'm not trying to save money... Honestly I just rarely drive the car and had not even realized that it had been almost 3 years... I thought it was like 1.5 years... The car runs like a dream, never had a single problem with it, that's why it has never been to the dealership or had a single service (Couldn't say the same for my E46 M3 though :()...

Anyway, I usually just change my oil once a year regardless of mileage, so this 3 years thing with my Jag is an anomaly... I know it's not a good idea to go past 1 year for oil changes...

The other interesting thing is I am probably going to buy the car when the lease expires this August...

A few major problems, the first of which is, whatever the condition of the oil or your engine, you will totally void your warranty on the IS - as you already have on the Jag. Regular oil changes are a condition of your vehicle's warranty. Any engine problems you may experience, for whatever reason, will be on you.

Back in the 1920's there was a school of thought that dictated you never changed oil, only the filter. The logic was that the high temperature of the engine actually refined the lubricant as you drove. As strange as it sounds today, it was probably true back then. Oils were pure mineral oil (or "Rock Oil") that consisted of nothing but lubricant. In those days engines turned much slower, with far lower compression, wider tolerances, and lower stresses than a modern powerplant. Cars driven long distances, primarily on the highway really did not require frequent oil changes. That was then, this is now.

Today's engine oils are more than half "additives", including stabilizers, detergents, surfactants. anti-wear, anti-foam agents, and a dozen other components that clean, protect, lubricate, and cool your engine. These components "wear out", sacrificing themselves on the job. When they're gone, your oil is no longer performing its mission.

Your low mileage application, infrequent driving, short distances, and heavy applications of throttle are the worst possible operating conditions for an internal combustion engine. Without a long interval of highway driving, water condenses into the oil and is not boiled away. Dilution of the lubricant, loss of detergents and other cleaning agents, not to mention the scuffing your cylinders are probably taking probably means you will reduce your vehicles to smoldering heaps before your reach that 15,000 mile mark.

Despite their light usage, the service you describe is considered "heavy duty service" because of the above conditions. You should observe the 5K mile interval religiously. Even in extremely low mileage situations, most oil companies recommend a change every six months.

We used to have a fellow on the RX forums who constantly bragged about "his" oil (he was a MLM dealer) and its miraculous properties. It NEVER needed changing. I think it was at about 23,000 miles his engine seized. A new engine was the solution (at something like $13,000) and he was stunned. He was REALLY mad when Lexus refused to honor his warranty as he'd never changed his oil. He posted several diatribes on CL about Lexus, and their lousy quality product and terrible service, but his previous posts came back to bite him. "His" oil, backed by a "full replacement warranty", proved to be no warranty at all. The manufacturer of the product wouldn't even answer his correspondence. He was stuck with a $13,000 coffee table. We haven't heard from him since. I wonder if he changes his oil now?

Lil4X: Thanks for the interesting information... I totally agree that short trips are very harsh on the engine... Please don't think I'm disputing any of what you say, and definitely don't think I'm advocating 3 year oil change intervals... I just want to share my finding as I have not seen anyone go this long with factory oil before...

Funny story about that guy and "his" oil... hehe... To me oil is oil... I really don't care... I have no idea what oil is in my Jag as it's from the factory... I'm pretty sure it's not synthetic though... I guess Blackstone will have the answers...

I am going to change the oil today... I called my local shop and told them to have a clean container to store the oil until the blackstone kit arrives... Believe it or not, I'm actually slightly nervous! hahah :D

If this one is a keeper, I'd be nervous too.

Mobil 1 says modern oils are 80 percent base stock and 20 percent additives with their own base stock which is where you get into the thick of 100% synthetic or not because the additives are rarely in synthetic base stock. I learned a whole lot about this reading Mobil's case against Castrol a few years ago. IMHO, I still don't know beans about oil though, other than what has worked for me, and that any synthetic beats conventional oil on extended drain intervals. If I really want to know something I go to bitog (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com) and sift through the holy wars about oil.

Audis on the Longlife Service Plan will go 20k miles between oil changes but even they say that if you haven't got to 20k within 2 years, change the oil anyway as it will start to degrade after that. I'd get it changed asap.

ll these encourage the users to take their cars to service without guessing, and keep the car better maintained.

yet they still have more problems than other makes. Preludeonline admin's 03 745 navigation system has been replaced 4x, the water pump failed at 52k causing the engine to seize and probably needs replacemant or a big repair, thank god he had an extended

yet they still have more problems than other makes. Preludeonline admin's 03 745 navigation system has been replaced 4x, the water pump failed at 52k causing the engine to seize and probably needs replacemant or a big repair, thank god he had an extended

Well, then I guess we are pretty lucky on our old 330xi then. Other than couple burnt tail light bulbs and an additional qt of synthetic oil every 5k miles, there's no issue with the car after 58k miles. And it saved my wife's life, too.

Prelude has its own fair share of problem too. The differential-type device on the Type SH, the tail lamp, and the premature deterioration of the trunk's weather strip. But this is off topic and I am not into BMW bashing.

changing oil is a lot cheaper than changing engine

Why pay for an analysis when you can change the oil to start with for the same money?

Farraaz23 is correct.....this thread is a joke.

It's not about money...

If you think this thread is a joke then just move on, we don't need you here...

I use mobile one on all three of my cars. My ’87 Vette is rarely driven so I change the oil and filter once a year when I get it inspected. My 2004 Maxima and 1992 SC400 I do every three months. I could probably go 6 months on the SC400 and Maxima but it doesn’t pay to skimp in this area.

It's not about money...

If you think this thread is a joke then just move on, we don't need you here... BYE!

Sorry...perhaps I labeled it wrongly It's not so much the idea of the thread itself being a joke as the idea of oil changes that extended...even with synthetic. In most cases, it's best to go 3000-5000 miles depending on driving conditions. Maybe a little more with synthetic...but even with synthetic, though the oil doesn't break down as quick, the packages in it do.

Guys keep it cordial please.

This is weird.. Ive been changing my oil about every 10,000 miles and I havent had ANY major issues with my 93 ls other than routine maintenance. The car has had mobil 1 since 20k miles and im now on 190k. The synthetic causes much less friction in the engine and doesnt need to be changed that often. on average I go about a year to a year and a half before i change it.

Sorry...perhaps I labeled it wrongly It's not so much the idea of the thread itself being a joke as the idea of oil changes that extended...even with synthetic. In most cases, it's best to go 3000-5000 miles depending on driving conditions. Maybe a little more with synthetic...but even with synthetic, though the oil doesn't break down as quick, the packages in it do.

No problem, it's my bad, I misunderstood you...

I just want to clear up that I am not advocating any oil change intervals with this thread... The only reason I started this thread is out of curiosity, because I don't know anyone who has left the factory oil in their new car for almost 3 years... The analysis is just to see the result! :)

I didn't do this on purpose either... I really just don't care/think too much about the maintenance of my newer cars... Never had a problem either...

IMO, it really brings up a good discussion point. OCI is related to service life and possibly efficiency since oil thickens as it dies. If I am in a leased car, why would I care about the ultimate service life of the car? It's essentially a rental, and why would I treat it any differently? I know I don't care about a rental. I get in, I drive, and if it has issues I really don't care as long as I get where I need to go when I need to be there. If it breaks down, I don't care, they're bringing me another car (I only care if it makes me late to an appointment.)

So, if I'm leasing the car, I know I have no intention of keeping it, so why would I even bother to go an inch past mandatory maintenance, and wouldn't I have incentive to stretch the maintenance events as far apart as possible? Every day my car is in the shop, my TCU goes up because I am not in my car (unless they have free loaners), and I'm leasing to lower my TCU.

I would not treat a keeper like this. But a lease? I probably wouldn't spend an extra dime on synthetic unless it came with the regular service. I wouldn't get the regular service unless it was a condition of the lease, I'd extend it as far as I can without violating the contract. Isn't the whole point of leasing to reduce OOP expenses?

LOL, leave it to Technique to cause a holy war on CL.
I'm glad it's the Jag that's the guinea pig, and not the IS, now we can apply your learnings going forward (seems like an episode of Mythbusters).
FWIW, you are better off turning in your Jag at the end of the lease, regardless of this oil change episode. Very rarely does it make financial sense to buy a car coming off lease, as I'm sure you are well aware . . .

lobux: you have an excellent point! And that's basically the way I feel... I really don't think about the maintenance... It's just like a rental car... And given how rarely I drove the car, it made no sense for me to bother with maintenance...

Here's an example... They gave me 3 key fobs... 2 of them have died... I got a letter from Jaguar stating that there is a recall on the key fobs, it's a known issue... I checked the serial # of the fobs and the 2 that died are covered... The 3'rd one is still working an unaffected...

I have NOT gone to the dealership to get the 2 replaced free of charge because I don't care... All I need is 1 working key, and it's not worth my time to go to the dealership 15 minutes away...

I bought the car to drive when I wanted, that's it... That's the reason I leased it, because I don't want to think about it...

LOL, leave it to Technique to cause a holy war on CL.
I'm glad it's the Jag that's the guinea pig, and not the IS, now we can apply your learnings going forward (seems like an episode of Mythbusters).
FWIW, you are better off turning in your Jag at the end of the lease, regardless of this oil change episode. Very rarely does it make financial sense to buy a car coming off lease, as I'm sure you are well aware . . .

heh, it really is like an episode of mythbusters huh? If only I had that cute chick from the TV show to "assist" me :cool:

As far as the buying a car at the end of the lease, you are right... BUT, it only has 8000 miles on it! I feel crazy giving it up... Plus the car is still so tight and perfect... No rattles, and it's great for driving 5 people to a nice Sunday night dinner... My other cars are all more "sporty", like the IS350... So that's why I was thinking I'd just buy it... Residual is like $25k or something I think...

I guess I could lease another car... I'm thinking about the V-8 E-class, but I am afraid to get another benz... I don't want the thing to break... That's why I've been so happy with the Jag...

Got the Blackstone kit today... Going to have the oil changed Friday and will send it off the same day... So, figure about 2 weeks for the results... Any special requests for pictures/vids to be taken of the process?

OK, so, please stop the PMs... Today I changed my oil, officially! The mechanic said "It looks normal" but, that means nothing since we are talking about time and water content etc... He followed the directions exactly also and took the sample "mid-stream"... Anyway, I must say, the oil looked normal to me, in fact, it was lighter than a "normal" oil change for me... We'll have to see what black stone says... I priority mailed it, so we should have the results in just a few days....

Is it that you truly don't have the time? Or are you just plain old lazy?

I don't think its the former since you have time to post the justification of your actions (or inactions) on CL.

Is it that you truly don't have the time? Or are you just plain old lazy?

I don't think its the former since you have time to post the justification of your actions (or inactions) on CL.

heh, same difference IMHO... But, ya, I'm also lazy... :)

heh, same difference IMHO... But, ya, I'm also lazy... :)

Fair enough :p

Here are the results, they emailed them to me today. Maybe someone can chime in and interpret them / shed some light on this.

http://www.infoarena.com/lexus/report.jpg

The text report looks very similar to the report I got on my 1st UOA at 5K miles. Your actual numbers look pretty high at first glance. Compare them to my report below.

I think the really valuable info would have been from a TBN test (which it doesn't look like you asked for). :(

The text report looks very similar to the report I got on my 1st UOA at 5K miles. Your actual numbers look pretty high at first glance. Compare them to my report below.

I think the really valuable info would have been from a TBN test (which it doesn't look like you asked for). :(

I'm going to call them first thing in the morning and see if they can do the TBN test... Nobody said "Make sure you do the TBN test" so I didn't think to do it... It seemed to be a test more for comparison of multiple samples over time... Oh well...

I'm going to call them first thing in the morning and see if they can do the TBN test... Nobody said "Make sure you do the TBN test" so I didn't think to do it... It seemed to be a test more for comparison of multiple samples over time... Oh well...

Hopefully they still have the sample, but I would be surprised. However, there were MANY "hints" about the TBN test mentioned in the thread, since that is the test for remaining additives.

It turns out that lobuxracer did mention the TBN.

You do realise he leases cars and doesn't exceed the mileage limitations? He's essentially renting the car for the lease period, and really couldn't care less about the condition of the engine when it is returned. Unless there is something in the contract that says he has to follow the recommended maintenance or suffer a penalty, why not? Also, lets say the penalty is $250 for not doing the oil changes once a year. Bet it's cheaper to pay the penalty.

We're all enthusiasts here and we all like to baby our cars. I think Technique is very practical from a dollars and cents perspective, as well as a personal time wasted perspective. We just wouldn't do it his way because we see the car as an important investment. He sees it just like anyone would see a rental.

So, my bet is the oil is going to be bad if you send it to Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) for analysis because the TBN will be way too low from water and acid contamination. Send it off, and let us know!

Ya, I should have paid more attention :(

But anyway, if we can't get TBN, what's the verdict from looking at the numbers in the report? Was it OK to wait 3 years?

From comparing to your oil, it looks roughly the same... Same ballpark... And blackstone didn't say anything like "this oil appears to be 3 years old"... But I don't know what most of those #s mean...

I'm not an oil expert at all, but every manufacturer uses different materials to build their engines (rings, cylinder linings, bearings, etc.). That means that the individual element levels will be different between different engines when doing a UOA. There were a few elements where my UOA showed higher levels than yours (copper, tin, silicon), but the rest were higher in yours, and many of them were magnitudes higher than my sample AND the average (aluminum, molybdenum, mangenese, potassium, sodium, barium).

The only way to really know the full story is to see the TBN, and also see what other UOA's look like from the same model's engine when changed at the scheduled interval.

I have great news! I talked to Blackstone today, and they still have my sample and will perform the TBN test and generate a new report for me by end of day today! I'll post the results when I get them...

I have great news! I talked to Blackstone today, and they still have my sample and will perform the TBN test and generate a new report for me by end of day today! I'll post the results when I get them...

Sweet ... thanks! :thumbup:

15k oil changes on your new IS?

I few sorry for your car. :sad:

I always change the oil sooner then recommended.

Cant wait for the results. :p

OK, I called them up today since I had not received anything... Turns out they left early Monday and were closed yesterday because of the blizzard... She said they will send out my report today but that my TBN was 3.9 which means I stilll had some active additive left... I'll post the full report when I get it but it didn't seem like there would be much more info than that? Is TBN just a single #? If so, it's 3.9 for my oil... So what's the verdict?

OK, here's the final report. Looks like the oil could have still kept going... Thoughts?

http://www.infoarena.com/lexus/report2.jpg

The TBN is better than mine after 5K miles and 4 months. I don't understand how that is even possible unless your Jag has a HUGE oil capacity.

The TBN is better than mine after 5K miles and 4 months. I don't understand how that is even possible unless your Jag has a HUGE oil capacity.

I believe the mechanic told me he used almost 7 quarts to refill...

Strange. The IS requires over 6 qts as well...

Strange. The IS requires over 6 qts as well...

Maybe the Jag engine is cleaner burning or whatever...

Anyway, I am going to wait 10000+ miles and 1+ year to change my IS350 oil... I'll do a TBN analysis on that as well... But that's 9 months out, at least...

Anyway, I guess we now know that oil doesn't totally disintegrate with low-use over time...

People will continue to be critical regarding oil change intervals with synthetic fluids. This report reflects what many have been saying including myself regarding sythetics. I have Amsoil everything in the GS4 & Rav4, while the X3 has the factory German Castrol.. Not putting the bacon grease dino oil in my rides ever again.

People will continue to be critical regarding oil change intervals with synthetic fluids. This report reflects what many have been saying including myself regarding sythetics. I have Amsoil everything in the GS4 & Rav4, while the X3 has the factory German Castrol.. Not putting the bacon grease dino oil in my rides ever again.

Are you saying that my jag had synthetic oil in it from the factory?

People will continue to be critical regarding oil change intervals with synthetic fluids. This report reflects what many have been saying including myself regarding sythetics. I have Amsoil everything in the GS4 & Rav4, while the X3 has the factory German Castrol.. Not putting the bacon grease dino oil in my rides ever again.

That German Castrol is the best thing I ever put in my RX300, very smooth. Too bad they don't sell Amsoil down here, as I would like to use their ATF.

That German Castrol is the best thing I ever put in my RX300, very smooth. Too bad they don't sell Amsoil down here, as I would like to use their ATF.

Acording to lobuxracer (and others), our transmission fluid can't realistically be changed (ever).

EDIT: I was assuming you were talking about a 2IS. I have no idea about the other Lexus's's.

Acording to lobuxracer (and others), our transmission fluid can't realistically be changed (ever).

EDIT: I was assuming you were talking about a 2IS. I have no idea about the other Lexus's's.

I think you may also have that World Standard WS fluid.

The RX300 uses a Type-IV as the stock fluid, but I have never heard of a single issue from using the Amsoil ATF in the tranny in our vehicles, in fact I have seen nothing but positive comments. I change mine out at least once a year (because I race my little RX).

So was the report good/bad/average?

Double thread backfire if it turns out to be good/average :D

So was the report good/bad/average?

Double thread backfire if it turns out to be good/average :D

Well, the engineers comments on the report says it's good, so I guess the oil is good and it was totally fine to wait 3 years...

BUT, I want to get an "analysis" of the numbers/TBN from the knowledgeable people on the forum, because I might be mistaken...

IMHO, your UOA showed 2 interesting things. Assuming the factory fill was dino oil, contrary to popular opinions - dino oil *can* be used for longer OCIs, especially since your TBN was decent. But since your oil had such high mineral content, it's probably prudent to change out the factory fill at the recommended interval, just to purge the break-in debris from the motor. Not sure which oil your mechanic used, but it would be interesting to see what your next UOA looks like on the jag - knowing you, it'll be 5 yrs and 15k miles from now . . . ;)

My guess is that Blackstone will say that any results are "as expected" when it is a break-in oil that is changed within the recommended mileage. The only thing that was reported as "strong" was the TBN. That doesn't necessarily mean that the engine is in as good of shape as it would be if you changed the oil each year.

socal and gernby: I agree with both of you... I think the moral of this story is that oil can definitely go longer than most people think...

As far as the 2nd oil change on the jag, well, I am probably going to turn the car in at the end of the lease at the end of the summer, but if I keep it, well, I wouldn't change the oil till 20k mile at least, which is probably like 10 years from now :-)

I'll post a similar thread when I change the oil in my IS350... That will be at least 12 months, and close to 15k miles on the break-in oil... The following change after that will probably be another 12 months and the odo will be close to 30k...

Of course, I'll have the analysis+TBN done :)

It doesn't sound like you really agreed with me. My opinion was that just because Blackstone said the results were as the expected, I don't think your engine is in as good of shape as if you changed it earlier. If you look at the metals in your oil, some of them are WAY higher than mine were.

I am really surprised the TBN was so high. You could have gone even longer. Wow!

Are you saying that my jag had synthetic oil in it from the factory?
The factory fill for Jaguar, Landrover is Castrol SLX sold in the UK.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/productdetailmin.do?categoryId=9004868&contentId=7008962

It doesn't sound like you really agreed with me. My opinion was that just because Blackstone said the results were as the expected, I don't think your engine is in as good of shape as if you changed it earlier. If you look at the metals in your oil, some of them are WAY higher than mine were.

I do agree with you... I know that if I had changed the oil every year, there would have been a little less metal in the oil... So yes, my engine would have been in better shape...

However, I think the difference is almost trivial.. Meaning... How much better shape would my engine have been in? The answer is "who knows"? How do you measure such things? Really, I think maybe we're talking a few percent difference at best...

So I do agree that it would have helped a little, but the end result might be engine failure at 300,000 miles instead of 280,000 miles... or something like that...

I am really surprised the TBN was so high. You could have gone even longer. Wow!

I know, I should have waited the full 10k miles, but I will probably turn the car in right around that time so I wouldn't have changed it... But something about "exactly 3 years" had a nice ring to it... :cool:

Anyway, I hope this has been a good experiment... I think the final verdict of this episode of mythbusters is that regular dino oil, in low mileage environments that are considered "severe driving", can go several years without being changed...

Myth busted! :thumbup:

Thanks for getting the test donw! :thumbup: