I got rid of my GS400 last weekend because I'm going to be getting a new Corvette. The paperwork is still being filled out right now so I probably wont' be able to pick up the car for another few days. While I'm waiting I rented a Chevy Aveo because I blew all my money on the Vette :D and I didn't have any extra to spend on a rental

The Aveo is a complete piece of crap, probably one of the worst cars I've ever driven. The interior is trash, it's probably the ugliest car on the road, and I'm almost embarrassed to be seen in it. One thing that absolutely shocked me though is the quality of the ride. This might be almost blasphemous to say on here, but the car rides better than my GS ever did. Driving it over the same terribly maintained Boston streets, it goes over potholes, bumps and road imperfections a lot more smoothly than the GS. I almost couldn't believe it

The only explanation I have is that the Aveo is riding on 14 inch (maybe even 13?) rims with high profile tires. My GS (suspension and rims remained stock) had 245/45/ZR17 low profile Kumho Escta ASX tires. Thinking about all the cars I've ever driven, it seems like the ride quality is directly proportional to the profile of the tires. Nothing else really seems to matter. Obviously the GS weighs about 1000-1200lbs more than the Aveo, and handles exponentially better (although the Aveo can be manhandled through turns pretty well) so the suspension probably has to be stiffer in order to deal with the weight and deliver the performance required, but there is still no reason a *****box rental like the Aveo should be more comfortable than a Lexus that costs about 5 times as much when new.

Maybe I'm just hallucinating, but has anybody else ever experienced something similar?

I know what you're saying. Lots of factors here though.

Yes, tire sidewall height matters. But so does suspension, a LOT.

My new MX-5 (Miata) handles great, and has low profile tires , but the shocks allow a fair bit of travel, so going over speed bumps for example, is really very surprisingly comfortable.

I'm going to upgrade the springs but keep the shocks, something that's popular on the car. The new springs will be progressive though, so the ride should remain pretty comfy in normal driving, but more capable when pushing it.

Another factor is brakes. Specifically, the weight of brakes. When I had a GS400 the car got more comfortable when I swapped out the huge heavy stock front brakes for much lighter StopTechs.

Than there's always air suspension.

In addition to what bitkahuna said, the type of tires will make a big difference also. More specifically, how stiff the sidewalls are. I can't help but assume that the Aveo has bargain basement cheapy all-seasons with very soft sidewalls, and would contribute greatly to absorbing imperfections before they can rattle the cabin.

In addition to what bitkahuna said, the type of tires will make a big difference also. More specifically, how stiff the sidewalls are. I can't help but assume that the Aveo has bargain basement cheapy all-seasons with very soft sidewalls, and would contribute greatly to absorbing imperfections before they can rattle the cabin.

Don't forget about runflats. I've heard those don't dampen very well.

You bring up a term I hear alot of people use but haven't quite figured out yet, Low Profile Tires.

When is a tire considered low profile, I haven't seen that term used with a particular tire manufacturer or size, so is there a set profile that makes a tire low profile?

You bring up a term I hear alot of people use but haven't quite figured out yet, Low Profile Tires.

When is a tire considered low profile, I haven't seen that term used with a particular tire manufacturer or size, so is there a set profile that makes a tire low profile?

I've always thought tires with an aspect ratio less than 50 were considered low profile, I could be wrong about this though

Low pros give it a much stiffer ride, from what i know you'll hear more road noise from just driving on a street, correct me if im wrong. The bigger the rim size stiffer ride because the rims and tires have much less room for play (moving harder and faster when hitting bumps)

Weight of the tire-wheel combo too will effect it.

I would trade the Lex for 3 Aveo's then mod them.. :p Quite the comfy pocket rocket lol.. Forget the Vette

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2269000-2269999/2269389_12_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2269000-2269999/2269389_6_full.jpg

thetopdog, i've experienced the same thing. I have the worse ride in the family (even stock). My mom's honda odyssey, honda accord, and toyota camry all ride smoother. My buddy's 93' accord that's lowered 2" all around rides even better. The last time I rode in something that was worse than my car was when the tow truck guy had to rescue me because my starter died:rolleyes:

I got rid of my GS400 last weekend because I'm going to be getting a new Corvette. The paperwork is still being filled out right now so I probably wont' be able to pick up the car for another few days. While I'm waiting I rented a Chevy Aveo because I blew all my money on the Vette :D and I didn't have any extra to spend on a rental

The Aveo is a complete piece of crap, probably one of the worst cars I've ever driven. The interior is trash, it's probably the ugliest car on the road, and I'm almost embarrassed to be seen in it. One thing that absolutely shocked me though is the quality of the ride. This might be almost blasphemous to say on here, but the car rides better than my GS ever did. Driving it over the same terribly maintained Boston streets, it goes over potholes, bumps and road imperfections a lot more smoothly than the GS. I almost couldn't believe it

The only explanation I have is that the Aveo is riding on 14 inch (maybe even 13?) rims with high profile tires. My GS (suspension and rims remained stock) had 245/45/ZR17 low profile Kumho Escta ASX tires. Thinking about all the cars I've ever driven, it seems like the ride quality is directly proportional to the profile of the tires. Nothing else really seems to matter. Obviously the GS weighs about 1000-1200lbs more than the Aveo, and handles exponentially better (although the Aveo can be manhandled through turns pretty well) so the suspension probably has to be stiffer in order to deal with the weight and deliver the performance required, but there is still no reason a *****box rental like the Aveo should be more comfortable than a Lexus that costs about 5 times as much when new.

Maybe I'm just hallucinating, but has anybody else ever experienced something similar?

The Aveo is made in Korea, for Chevy, by the Daewoo Corporation, and sold in the U.S. as the Aveo and other countries by different names. Daewoo also builds several models for Suzuki...their Leganza, Forenza, Verona, and Reno. Daewoo, in general, did a pretty nice job on those other cars, but the Aveo, I agree, leaves a lot to be desired. It is noisy, primarily from the small size and lack of insulation, with a lot of both engine and road noise, and, while maybe smooth compared to some low-profile-tire vehicles you've owned, somewhat rough-riding for my tastes. The interior and fit-and-finish is nowhere near as nice as what you'll find in Hyundais. which are also Korean-designed.


AS far as the issue of lower-profile tires go, in general, although other things come into play as bitkahuna pointed out, the lower the profile, the rougher the ride, the sharper the steering, and the less wheel impact protection from potholes and road damage.

I know that I am probably in the CL minority on this one, but I myself don't like low-profile tires except on purposely-designed sports cars or high-performance sport sedans like BMW M series luxury cars that are specifically designed for handling. To put them on family sedans and luxury cars, as more and more manufacturers are doing, IMO, is ludicrous.

You also must keep in mind, while switching tire and wheel sizes, that if the new wheel/tire outside rolling diameter is not the same as on the factory combo, you may get inaccurate speedometer and odometer readings, which could lead to speeding tickets and possible loss of the factory warranty.

I would trade the Lex for 3 Aveo's then mod them.. :p Quite the comfy pocket rocket lol.. Forget the Vette

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2269000-2269999/2269389_12_full.jpg


Dang that doesn't look half bad. Kind of like a smooshed Volvo. :p

You bring up a term I hear alot of people use but haven't quite figured out yet, Low Profile Tires.

When is a tire considered low profile, I haven't seen that term used with a particular tire manufacturer or size, so is there a set profile that makes a tire low profile?

I remember when the 86.5 Supra was introduced it had something like a 245/50-16 "gatorback" goodyear and it was considered low profile.

I think these days 45 aspect ratio is the threshold to be considered low profile and thats only with smaller sizes (ie 17) because a 19 with a 40series tire still has a pretty tall sidewall.

Nowadays when I think low profile I think 30 and 25series.

Don't forget about runflats. I've heard those don't dampen very well.

You have no idea how true this is! In the last 3 months I have driven a SC430 with Runflats and a C5 Corvette with Runflats and both have the same weird ride characteristics! Its a mushy, but harsh feeling. Like in the Lexus it was odd that the car rode so floaty but jolted so hard over impacts, its like the worst of both worlds, mushy handling and terrrible impact absorption.

Of course the Corvette wasn't as mushy, but it still had a nice dampened ride until any impact was encountered, then it felt like the trunk was gonna fly open.

The most amazing thing about runflats is any conventional tire rides so much better. The vette rides 2.5 times better with the 20's than it did with the oem runflats!

I would trade the Lex for 3 Aveo's then mod them.. :p Quite the comfy pocket rocket lol.. Forget the Vette


Bro you truly have a love for domestic cars! I didnt even think modded AVEO's existed! Damn your good to find THAT!

Originally Posted by Koma
Don't forget about runflats. I've heard those don't dampen very well.


Yes....but there is a reason for that, although it is mostly just common sense and doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Run-flat tires, of course, have to support the weight of the entire car and the load in it, with no air at all, for up to 50 miles at 50 MPH ( generally their recommended limits ). That requires an extremely strong sidewall made out of durable materials. Those materials just don't give much when you hit a bump......air or no air. It is just one of the concessions, along with their relatively high cost and limited availability, that you have to make when you choose them. They also sometimes don't wear very well ( like on the run-flat Toyota Sienna ), because the super-hard sidewalls don't always allow the surface tread to flex while cornering to stay even with the road surface, so you end up wearing out the outside edges. This problem, though, to an extent, has been dealt in the latest run-flat Corvettes by suspension changes.

Bro you truly have a love for domestic cars! I didnt even think modded AVEO's existed! Damn your good to find THAT!


The Aveo is not a domestic, except for the Chevy nameplate. It is a Korean Daewoo subcompact built in Korean plants for Chevy. See my description of the car in an earlier post.

The Aveo is not a domestic, except for the Chevy nameplate. It is a Korean Daewoo subcompact built in Korean plants for Chevy. See my description of the car in an earlier post.

I saw that lengthy excerpt I was just making a general reference to the name plate. Much in the same vein as the GTO not being a domestic either.

The most amazing thing about runflats is any conventional tire rides so much better. The vette rides 2.5 times better with the 20's than it did with the oem runflats!

Yes, my new MX-5 has the option of run flats (because it has NO spare either way!) but I had NO interest. (And since it has no spare it comes with a mini sealing slime bottle / inflator kit in the trunk :D )

Low-pro tires will not have a major impact til you start running below 40series and running wider rims causing car to want to follow grooves in the road. Impact from broken pavements are felt much more clearer. Other than that, low-pro are actually better when combined with a firmer suspension. They ride more stable, offers more grip, sharper and quicker steering response, less slack overall. Since there is practically no give to them, they allow your suspension to work to it's full potential, you just have to do what us Ricers do and constantly avoid manholes and slow down when entering drive ways and speed bumps to avoid bending your nice rims.

Over inflated hi-profile tires will make car ride worse than properly inflated low-pro wheel/tire IMO.

There's some truth to this, but in general, short of computer-controled suspensions like Cadillac/GM's MagnaRide that change damping and stiffness with steering input, vehicle speed, and road surface, there is almost always a compromise between ride and handling....what benefits one will take from the other. This law generally holds true whether you are talking tires, shocks, or general suspension design. Better handling means a firmer ride......a softer ride means less-sharp steering response and more body roll.
I general, Mercedes and BMW have come closest to achieving the best and most ideal compromises in combining both ride and handling with a conventional suspension....and BMW clearly leads the industry in the design of their power steering and road feel.
Yet, even with a computer-controlled suspension, you cannot have firmness and softness combined AT THE SAME TIME....once again, the old ride vs. handling law kicks in. The shocks will stay soft when you are driving straight and level, but firm up in sharp turns to control body roll, so you get a relatively soft ride in easy driving and more firmness while agressively cornering....you can't have both at once.

This also works, in general, for tires as well. While many factors are involved.....things like rubber compound, air pressure, suspension design, etc.....in general, a lower profile gives better handling at the expense of ride; a higher-profile better ride at the expense of handling. You can't have both ride and handling at the same time. It is simply one of the laws of physics that engineers have to deal with when they design a vehicle....and as I stated previously, Mercedes-Benz engineers have probably mastered the suspension compromises needed better than any other auto company; BMW for steering.

Nicely said mmarshall. But I think it's more a personal taste than anything. Which is why Camry outsells all cars despite losing all car magazine shootouts. I personally don't care for BMW or Mercedes suspension tunning. Mercs are all around too soft, and BMW too rough yet too much roll for daily driving. Both have numb and slow steering IMO.

BMW has numb and slow steering??? You must be driving some really nice exotic cars or cars that are built for track purpose then...

Nicely said mmarshall. But I think it's more a personal taste than anything. Which is why Camry outsells all cars despite losing all car magazine shootouts. I personally don't care for BMW or Mercedes suspension tunning. Mercs are all around too soft, and BMW too rough yet too much roll for daily driving. Both have numb and slow steering IMO.

You find BMW power steering NUMB? That is quite a statement. Most auto enthusiasts, myself included, consider it the industry benchmark....even in the otherwise disappointing Chris Bangle models, though Porsche admittedly comes close.

You are correct, though, that much of the Camry's popularity comes from its luxury car-like ride softness and noise isolation at a family-sedan price. Many people, especially as they age, prefer comfort over handling.

BMW has numb and slow steering??? You must be driving some really nice exotic cars or cars that are built for track purpose then...LoL..I find Ricemasters statement too funny :p Ricemaster is the Roadmaster..:thumbup:

LoL..I find Ricemasters statement too funny :p Ricemaster is the Roadmaster..:thumbup:

Glad I am not the only one.

I think the consensus here is that basically every car is a compromise. If you want sharp handling, you are going to sacrifice some degree of comfort, quiet, or appearance. An F1 car has fairly narrow sidewalls, but they are not extreme. That sidewall has to flex sufficiently under side loading to keep the contact patch flat on the track, but not so much as to make the handling squirmy. A wide tire with a very thin sidewall may be stylish, but it is not an optimal handler, given a streetable suspension, and it's going to deliver a pretty solid THWACK!! with every tar strip it encounters.

I remember taking the skinny OEM Goodyears off my new '67 Mustang after only a couple thousand miles (and one hundred-mile run through the Arizona desert at over 110 (degrees and mph) - the fabric of all four tires had separated from the rubber and the tires couldn't hold air for more than 30 minutes. I learned about racing a carload of pretty ladies in a similar car (Cougar) from that.

I put on a set of the then-new Firestone "Wide Oval" tires that were every muscle-car owner's dream. They stuck, they handled pretty well, but they were extremely heavy and flexed not at all. They were rough as a dried cob but they put a HUGE (for 1967) contact patch on the ground, with a 2-ply polyester carcass and 2 fiberglass bias belts, they were high style, but delivered a pretty miserable ride. They wore out in about 18K, thanks to that soft but grippy compound. Ah well, there for about six months, I was stylin'! ;)

I put on a set of the then-new Firestone "Wide Oval" tires that were every muscle-car owner's dream. They stuck, they handled pretty well, but they were extremely heavy and flexed not at all. They were rough as a dried cob but they put a HUGE (for 1967) contact patch on the ground, with a 2-ply polyester carcass and 2 fiberglass bias belts, they were high style, but delivered a pretty miserable ride. They wore out in about 18K, thanks to that soft but grippy compound. Ah well, there for about six months, I was stylin'! ;)


Yeah....I remember the Wide Ovals, too.....and the old TV ads for them.
But.......welcome to the 21st Century. Today's ultra-low-profile high-performance tires do much the same thing as the old Wide Ovals did 40 years ago....cost too much, wear out quickly, give a lousy ride, slide all over the place on slippery roads, and offer little impact protection.

Nicely said mmarshall. But I think it's more a personal taste than anything. Which is why Camry outsells all cars despite losing all car magazine shootouts. I personally don't care for BMW or Mercedes suspension tunning. Mercs are all around too soft, and BMW too rough yet too much roll for daily driving. Both have numb and slow steering IMO.99.9% of the time I don't but I have to agree with MM on this BMW to me has the best steering feel.