Honda confirms hydrogen fuel-cell sedan for 2008
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Honda confirms hydrogen fuel-cell sedan for 2008
FCX concept
Honda has new fuel cell vehicle
Hydrogen-powered FCX, with range of 270 miles, to hit road next year in U.S., Japan.
David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau
Friday, May 11, 2007
WASHINGTON -- Honda Motor Co. unveiled its next-generation hydrogen fuel cell vehicle here Thursday, saying it would begin producing a small number of vehicles next year for use in Japan and the United States.
The new Honda FCX is sportier and sleeker than the current version, with a top speed of 100 mph. It has a longer range -- 270 miles, up from 210 -- and a fuel cell power system that's 400 pounds lighter.
"We're calling this the 'FCX Concept' but I can assure you it is not just some far out, pie-in-the-sky exercise in what may or may not come to fruition some day in the distant future," said Steve Ellis, Honda's manager of fuel cell vehicle marketing.
Ellis said the vehicle is an important tool in reaching out to green-conscious customers. "It will be positioned as the ultimate environmental badge of honor for our customers."
Honda's FCX plans come amid growing concern about greenhouse gas emissions and calls in Congress to dramatically raise fuel economy standards to reduce tailpipe emissions.
Hydrogen vehicles offer dramatically lower net carbon dioxide emissions. Hydrogen power would also help end U.S. dependence on foreign oil. But the main problems are still the expense of building hydrogen fuel cells and the lack of hydrogen fueling stations around the country.
One idea Honda is looking at is an experimental home energy station that uses natural gas already supplied to most homes to generate hydrogen fuel, electricity, hot water and heat.
The main advantage to hydrogen is that it can "be derived from a broad range of sources, including methane or natural gas, bio-mass and renewable sources like solar or wind," said Ben Knight, Honda's vice president for research in the Americas.
He said the new generation FCX is a "quantum leap forward." It will have a higher price than the $500 a month Honda charges for its current FCX, which is only a fraction of the roughly $1.5 million each costs to build. Honda has sold or leased about 30 worldwide and said production of the new model would eventually exceed the current fleet. Honda leased one to a family in California two years ago and in March, leased one to 17-year-old actress and environmental activist Q'orianka Kilcher. Honda let journalists drive two FCX Concept sedans in the parking lot of Washington's RFK Stadium. Government officials also were invited, including top White House environmental adviser James Connaughton.
When accelerating, the FCX's fuel cell sounds more like a jet engine than a conventional gasoline engine, although it's quieter. The new FCX also has superior acceleration over the current model, with a top speed of 100 mph
The production vehicles will be similar to the concept showed off Thursday, with upgraded bumpers and a revised interior, Honda said.
Hydrogen vehicles are being researched by most major automakers, and the industry has spent billions on research. China is also investing heavily in hydrogen and may become the first country to adopt hydrogen vehicles in large numbers.
General Motors Corp. said in September that it would introduce the world's largest fleet of hydrogen vehicles later this year, putting 100 consumers in hydrogen-powered Chevrolet Equinox SUVs through its "Project Driveway" program in New York, California and Washington, DC.
Next week, GM plans to take journalists on a 300-mile drive from its labs in Honeoye Falls, N.Y. to Tarrytown, N.Y., and update them on its hydrogen research. GM hopes to have a 1,000-vehicle fleet between 2010 and 2012.
Ford Motor Co. is working on the HySeries Edge, a plug-in electric hydrogen-powered vehicle with a range of 225 miles. It also has a fleet of hydrogen powered E-450 shuttle buses, among other hydrogen vehicles.
DaimlerChrysler AG has more than 100 hydrogen fuel cells in use worldwide, including 25 in California. BMW has more than 100 Hydrogen 7 vehicles on the roads and plans to begin leasing them this year.
Hydrogen-powered FCX, with range of 270 miles, to hit road next year in U.S., Japan.
David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau
Friday, May 11, 2007
WASHINGTON -- Honda Motor Co. unveiled its next-generation hydrogen fuel cell vehicle here Thursday, saying it would begin producing a small number of vehicles next year for use in Japan and the United States.
The new Honda FCX is sportier and sleeker than the current version, with a top speed of 100 mph. It has a longer range -- 270 miles, up from 210 -- and a fuel cell power system that's 400 pounds lighter.
"We're calling this the 'FCX Concept' but I can assure you it is not just some far out, pie-in-the-sky exercise in what may or may not come to fruition some day in the distant future," said Steve Ellis, Honda's manager of fuel cell vehicle marketing.
Ellis said the vehicle is an important tool in reaching out to green-conscious customers. "It will be positioned as the ultimate environmental badge of honor for our customers."
Honda's FCX plans come amid growing concern about greenhouse gas emissions and calls in Congress to dramatically raise fuel economy standards to reduce tailpipe emissions.
Hydrogen vehicles offer dramatically lower net carbon dioxide emissions. Hydrogen power would also help end U.S. dependence on foreign oil. But the main problems are still the expense of building hydrogen fuel cells and the lack of hydrogen fueling stations around the country.
One idea Honda is looking at is an experimental home energy station that uses natural gas already supplied to most homes to generate hydrogen fuel, electricity, hot water and heat.
The main advantage to hydrogen is that it can "be derived from a broad range of sources, including methane or natural gas, bio-mass and renewable sources like solar or wind," said Ben Knight, Honda's vice president for research in the Americas.
He said the new generation FCX is a "quantum leap forward." It will have a higher price than the $500 a month Honda charges for its current FCX, which is only a fraction of the roughly $1.5 million each costs to build. Honda has sold or leased about 30 worldwide and said production of the new model would eventually exceed the current fleet. Honda leased one to a family in California two years ago and in March, leased one to 17-year-old actress and environmental activist Q'orianka Kilcher. Honda let journalists drive two FCX Concept sedans in the parking lot of Washington's RFK Stadium. Government officials also were invited, including top White House environmental adviser James Connaughton.
When accelerating, the FCX's fuel cell sounds more like a jet engine than a conventional gasoline engine, although it's quieter. The new FCX also has superior acceleration over the current model, with a top speed of 100 mph
The production vehicles will be similar to the concept showed off Thursday, with upgraded bumpers and a revised interior, Honda said.
Hydrogen vehicles are being researched by most major automakers, and the industry has spent billions on research. China is also investing heavily in hydrogen and may become the first country to adopt hydrogen vehicles in large numbers.
General Motors Corp. said in September that it would introduce the world's largest fleet of hydrogen vehicles later this year, putting 100 consumers in hydrogen-powered Chevrolet Equinox SUVs through its "Project Driveway" program in New York, California and Washington, DC.
Next week, GM plans to take journalists on a 300-mile drive from its labs in Honeoye Falls, N.Y. to Tarrytown, N.Y., and update them on its hydrogen research. GM hopes to have a 1,000-vehicle fleet between 2010 and 2012.
Ford Motor Co. is working on the HySeries Edge, a plug-in electric hydrogen-powered vehicle with a range of 225 miles. It also has a fleet of hydrogen powered E-450 shuttle buses, among other hydrogen vehicles.
DaimlerChrysler AG has more than 100 hydrogen fuel cells in use worldwide, including 25 in California. BMW has more than 100 Hydrogen 7 vehicles on the roads and plans to begin leasing them this year.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Not surprising. We have already discussed the previous FCX here at CL. Honda, once again, leads the way with new engine technology. This is usually the case....as with the CVCC engines of the 1970's and the VTEC engines of the 90's. They also beat Toyota by a few months, in 2000, in being the first to sell a hybrid (the Insight) in the American market, although Toyota had already sold the last-generation Prius in Japan for some time before it came to America.
Mazda, however, was the first to offer both Rotary and Miller-Cycle engines here, but they were not very successful outside of the RX-7/RX-8. The early Rotary-equipped RX-2's, RX-3's, Cosmos, and Miller-equipped Mazda Millenias were eventually dropped.
I wish Honda could have come up with a better-looking body for this car though...IMO, this one is too much of an egg.
Mazda, however, was the first to offer both Rotary and Miller-Cycle engines here, but they were not very successful outside of the RX-7/RX-8. The early Rotary-equipped RX-2's, RX-3's, Cosmos, and Miller-equipped Mazda Millenias were eventually dropped.
I wish Honda could have come up with a better-looking body for this car though...IMO, this one is too much of an egg.
So if I want to buy one of these where am I going to buy pure hydrogen at
Every technology has its consequences. Where there is a Pro, there is a Con. But there will always be room for improvement so Honda's attempt is one step towards better technology.
When hybrids first came out, I'm sure there were lots of debates about the hazardous batteries, efficiency, etc. In fact, it's still an on-going debate
The first generation hybrid system was revolutionary, but there were concerns about the physical size of the battery and efficiency. Now lithium technology comes into play on future hybrids. No doubt that the hydrogen fuel-cell is barely starting to surface. 
When hybrids first came out, I'm sure there were lots of debates about the hazardous batteries, efficiency, etc. In fact, it's still an on-going debate
The first generation hybrid system was revolutionary, but there were concerns about the physical size of the battery and efficiency. Now lithium technology comes into play on future hybrids. No doubt that the hydrogen fuel-cell is barely starting to surface.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: northern ca
Every technology has its consequences. Where there is a Pro, there is a Con. But there will always be room for improvement so Honda's attempt is one step towards better technology.
When hybrids first came out, I'm sure there were lots of debates about the hazardous batteries, efficiency, etc. In fact, it's still an on-going debate The first generation hybrid system was revolutionary, but there were concerns about the physical size of the battery and efficiency. Now lithium technology comes into play on future hybrids. No doubt that the hydrogen fuel-cell is barely starting to surface.
When hybrids first came out, I'm sure there were lots of debates about the hazardous batteries, efficiency, etc. In fact, it's still an on-going debate
The first generation hybrid system was revolutionary, but there were concerns about the physical size of the battery and efficiency. Now lithium technology comes into play on future hybrids. No doubt that the hydrogen fuel-cell is barely starting to surface. (imagine practically no engine noise - only wind and tires, also, no fuel wasted while stopped, no warm up, no oil changes ). The only thing is - we are pretty far away from widespread commercial use now. It is not a bad thing to move forward (as Honda does), though.Also, a big difference will be where the hydrogen is coming from. If it is coming from water electrolysis (with electricity supplied by nuclear power) - fine
. But if it is coming (in the long term) from natural gas or similar sources with the electricity generated by burning coal, then it is neither efficient, nor moves us away from fossil fuels.
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Lexus Fanatic
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No disagreements here! The only thing is that infrastructure for hydrogen use is ~10-20 years behind the technology right now. I think it would be great to use (imagine practically no engine noise - only wind and tires, also, no fuel wasted while stopped, no warm up, no oil changes ). The only thing is - we are pretty far away from widespread commercial use now. It is not a bad thing to move forward (as Honda does), though.
Also, a big difference will be where the hydrogen is coming from. If it is coming from water electrolysis (with electricity supplied by nuclear power) - fine. But if it is coming (in the long term) from natural gas or similar sources with the electricity generated by burning coal, then it is neither efficient, nor moves us away from fossil fuels.
(imagine practically no engine noise - only wind and tires, also, no fuel wasted while stopped, no warm up, no oil changes ). The only thing is - we are pretty far away from widespread commercial use now. It is not a bad thing to move forward (as Honda does), though.Also, a big difference will be where the hydrogen is coming from. If it is coming from water electrolysis (with electricity supplied by nuclear power) - fine
. But if it is coming (in the long term) from natural gas or similar sources with the electricity generated by burning coal, then it is neither efficient, nor moves us away from fossil fuels.both the production of compressed and liquid hydrogen will still require as much energy from well-to-tank as a gasoline burning engine (compressed air form uses less energy than liquid hydrogen form)
but there is also another way to source hydrogen that kills two birds with one stone
extract CGH2 (compressed gas hydrogen) from biomass
reduces landfill and greenhouse gases
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So what is the point of this Hydrogen powered car? In order to extract Hydrogen you still need to burn oil, and probably more than if you would just use gasoline engine. I think the only viable and realistic solution for alternative energy is electricity generated by nuclear power plants. I know there's a safety concern, but these plants are very efficient.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
So what is the point of this Hydrogen powered car? In order to extract Hydrogen you still need to burn oil, and probably more than if you would just use gasoline engine. I think the only viable and realistic solution for alternative energy is electricity generated by nuclear power plants. I know there's a safety concern, but these plants are very efficient.
As we discussed earlier, fuel cells promise the ability to continously generate electricity WITHOUT an on-board internal-combustion engine or physical connection, like a wire, from the car to to an electrical source, but that technology is still quite expensive. Honda, most likely (the main issue of this thread, of course) will be the first company to offer a practical street car with a fuel-cell inexpensive enough for mass production.....as it has led in a number of other new engine technologies in the past. Honda's fuel-cell technology is almost....but not quite....ready for general sale to the public. But even THEN, we will still need a hydrogen-sales infrastructure for fuel-cell engines......something we don't, of course, have now. (Current fuel-cell vehicles carry on-board hydrogen tanks that are compressed at thousands of PSI....which, of course, is not something that your average motorist or technician prepared or equipped to deal with)
Last edited by mmarshall; May 13, 2007 at 03:11 PM.
Well.....with today's technology, the only practical way that electricity alone can power cars (without a hybrid-type, on-board combustion-engine backup for battery recharging) is by battery storage, so no matter how you actually GENERATE the electricity, or where it comes from, or what kind of plant you use, even if it is the high-efficiency nuclear one, only so much of it can go into the car's batteries at once, and the car's range, of course, will be determined by how much voltage and amperage the car's motor and all its electrical accessories draw at any given time. You obviously can't connect a wire up from the car to an electrical outlet and then expect to get in and drive it, keeping it plugged in, with freedom of motion.
As we discussed earlier, fuel cells promise the ability to continously generate electricity WITHOUT an on-board internal-combustion engine or physical connection, like a wire, from the car to to an electrical source, but that technology is still quite expensive. Honda, most likely (the main issue of this thread, of course) will be the first company to offer a practical street car with a fuel-cell inexpensive enough for mass production.....as it has led in a number of other new engine technologies in the past. Honda's fuel-cell technology is almost....but not quite....ready for general sale to the public. But even THEN, we will still need a hydrogen-sales infrastructure for fuel-cell engines......something we don't, of course, have now. (Current fuel-cell vehicles carry on-board hydrogen tanks that are compressed at thousands of PSI....which, of course, is not something that your average motorist or technician prepared or equipped to deal with)
Lexus Test Driver
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Honda is just doing this now.....BMW has been making hydrogen cars for nearly 2 decades now. Here is their latest iteration: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=117647
Lexus Champion
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Honda is just doing this now.....BMW has been making hydrogen cars for nearly 2 decades now. Here is their latest iteration: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=117647
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,602
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Well, with batteries and chargin systems technologies constantly advancing it should soon be possible to have an electric car with decent range and relatively quick recharging.
But again, what is the point of this technology if you need to burn oil to extract hydrogen in the first place?
But again, what is the point of this technology if you need to burn oil to extract hydrogen in the first place?
Last edited by mmarshall; May 13, 2007 at 08:04 PM.