Audi has certainly lifted its game over the past five years, releasing more models, increasing its market share and picking up a horde of quality gongs, so you’d think fellow German luxury brand BMW would be feeling the heat. Not so, says BMW Group Australia managing director Guenther Seemann, speaking recently with GoAuto, mainly because it doesn’t build RWD cars.
Original article : http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/29BD68AA9B6E146DCA2572F900097F05
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JessePS
06-14-07, 11:28 AM
Muhahaha Lexus is the threat :p
XeroK00L
06-14-07, 11:38 AM
Why does the claim sound so familiar?:uh:
XeroK00L
06-14-07, 11:40 AM
The embedded picture of the article tells the truth. Good PS.:D
That might come back to bite them in the a** soon.
pisaykotik
06-14-07, 12:05 PM
Well this guy is talking about Australia, how about the rest of the world?
Yang1815
06-14-07, 12:10 PM
And they're partnering up with MB?
Threxx
06-14-07, 01:27 PM
Audi builds several RWD vehicles, several AWD vehicles, and several FWD vehicles. If their number one reason why Audi isn't a "thread" is that they don't build RWD vehicles... that's just not accurate. Well... maybe it's accurate in the country that article was written in, but otherwise... no.
I drove the 335i and compared to my Audi A4, it was more fun in the corners and far more powerful (but then again the 335i I drove had the sport package, the twin turbo motor, and stickered nearly 16 grand higher than my Audi did, so that makes sense. I prefer my Audi's interior materials and design, though - I and I prefer Audi styling, overall...
The only reason that I will probably lease a BMW next to replace my Audi is that Audi's lease rates are substantially worse than BMW at the moment. Of course that could change by October, too.
XeroK00L
06-14-07, 01:31 PM
Audi builds several RWD vehiclesReally....which one(s)?
mmarshall
06-14-07, 01:33 PM
Audi builds several RWD vehicles, several AWD vehicles, and several FWD vehicles. If their number one reason why Audi isn't a "thread" is that they don't build RWD vehicles... that's just not accurate. Well... maybe it's accurate in the country that article was written in, but otherwise... no.
What RWD production vehicles does Audi build? :uh: I am not aware of any that are sold in the American market....they are all either standard AWD or a choice of FWD/AWD...even with the TT sports car.
Threxx
06-14-07, 01:39 PM
Sorry, I assumed they were talking about RWD-based AWD, which Audi builds several of.
As far as 100% RWD... not that I'm aware of, but really- is it actually a detracting point to say "haha, you power all four wheels with a RWD bias, and we only power the rear wheels":uh:
Lexmex
06-14-07, 01:41 PM
In Mexico, they most certainly have and will continue to be a threat. Audis are just or even more common than BMWs and Mercedes. People realize they can get a lot more power/car/options in an Audi for the price than a BMW or Mercedes. The concept of quality still does not exist at the same level, and that is a reason why an upstart like Acura (Lexus is not here...yet) has not attained the same level of recognition here.
OC 335i
06-14-07, 01:56 PM
Are the prices for BMW/Audi different in Mexico?
I don't see Audi as a good HP per dollar buy these days. They are way underpowered for what you pay for.
For example
Audi A4 vs BMW 335i
S4 vs 335i
blacksc400
06-14-07, 06:28 PM
To me, Audi is. When I buying cars, I look at Lexus, BMW and Audi...
and in China, Audi out sell BMW for a wide margin..
I think he only talking about Australia market.
xioix
06-14-07, 06:49 PM
He should take a look at the German market and ask himself if they are a threat, because once it picks up steam in one market, it can pick up in others
mmarshall
06-14-07, 06:58 PM
Sorry, I assumed they were talking about RWD-based AWD, which Audi builds several of.
As far as 100% RWD... not that I'm aware of, but really- is it actually a detracting point to say "haha, you power all four wheels with a RWD bias, and we only power the rear wheels":uh:
RWD is fine ( even ideal ) in some circumstances, like dry-weather cornering, but for everyday driving in versatile conditions, I'd rather have an AWD product any day.
I have driven both BMW and Audi AWD vehlcles and can find few practical differences between the two of them, handling-wise, except for the admittedly superb BMW steering and road-feel. BMW, arguably, does power steering better than any other manufacturer in the U.S. market, whether RWD or AWD.
r1lee
06-14-07, 10:40 PM
He should take a look at the German market and ask himself if they are a threat, because once it picks up steam in one market, it can pick up in others
Audi's sales have been increasing over the last few years. But here in North America, they pale in comparison to MB, BMW and Lexus.
There was a recent article on why audi's and bmw's were so popular in their home markets, and why there sales there is so much more then over here.
http://www.autospies.com/news/If-Fleet-Sales-Are-Bad-New-for-the-Domestics-Then-Audi-And-BMW-Are-In-Worse-Shape-14191/
Lexmex
06-14-07, 10:52 PM
Are the prices for BMW/Audi different in Mexico?
I don't see Audi as a good HP per dollar buy these days. They are way underpowered for what you pay for.
For example
Audi A4 vs BMW 335i
S4 vs 335i
Here are the links for pricing from Yahoo Mexico and are in US Dollars:
If Audi replicate their European success in the US then BMW will be worried. Where there were two luxury marques competing there are now 3 with BMW, Mercedes and Audi going head to head. The UK is now Audi's biggest market outside of Germany and with dealerships expanding and relocating to accommodate an ever increasing product range this can only continue.
mmarshall
06-15-07, 04:15 AM
I don't see Audi as a good HP per dollar buy these days. They are way underpowered for what you pay for.
Well, First, "underpowered" is a relative term. Second, it's hard to argue that anything with 400 HP+ / torque, like some of the Audi S and RS models are underpowered. Third, the power-to-weight ratio is not the only determinant of what makes a car a good value. For instance, the AWD that comes with many Audis, and the superb shifting characteristics of the DSG transmission also, IMO, add to their value quotient.
OC 335i
06-15-07, 10:30 AM
For the price of the A4, the 335i/IS350/G35 blow it away. The S4 about 10k more than a 335i. The RS4 is much more expensive than the new M3 and probably more than the ISF will be. Audi needs to step up the HP in many of their models, the A4 most notably.
RocketGuy3
06-15-07, 10:45 AM
RWD is fine ( even ideal ) in some circumstances, like dry-weather cornering, but for everyday driving in versatile conditions, I'd rather have an AWD product any day.
I have driven both BMW and Audi AWD vehlcles and can find few practical differences between the two of them, handling-wise, except for the admittedly superb BMW steering and road-feel. BMW, arguably, does power steering better than any other manufacturer in the U.S. market, whether RWD or AWD.
The problems with AWD are not necessarily related to how well the cars corner. AWD adds weight and complexity, and can worsen efficiency because of more drivetrain losses.
mmarshall
06-15-07, 11:36 AM
The problems with AWD are not necessarily related to how well the cars corner. AWD adds weight and complexity, and can worsen efficiency because of more drivetrain losses.
No arguments there. One does not buy an AWD vehicle to win fuel economy runs....the AWD weight and drag pays its price. I notice that with my AWD Subaru. It gets about the same overall mileage as my RWD Lexus IS300 did.....and the IS300 had a larger engine and more power.
Gas mileage aside, I'm still sold on AWD products, particularly for lousy weather. The extra traction, IMO, is well worth the mileage and power penalty.
RocketGuy3
06-15-07, 11:56 AM
If you drive in snow or maybe even heavy rain very often, then yeah, it's probably not a bad idea. (Or if you do a lot of off-roading or rally racing, heh). But for the rest of us, it's not really worth it.
DASHOCKER
06-15-07, 12:02 PM
Audi's still have too much body roll imo.. BMW just has a formula that will continue to have them on top of the performance/luxury segment.
1SICKLEX
06-15-07, 12:09 PM
Audi's still have too much body roll imo.. BMW just has a formula that will continue to have them on top of the performance/luxury segment.
Yup, industry leading incentives and the best lease deals.:)
Audi's lease residuals blow...badly....
DASHOCKER
06-15-07, 12:12 PM
Yup, industry leading incentives and the best lease deals.:)
Audi's lease residuals blow...badly....The 335 I has your name all over it Mike:D
Threxx
06-15-07, 12:44 PM
Yup, industry leading incentives and the best lease deals.:)
Audi's lease residuals blow...badly....
They can be on and they can be off. Generally though, the residuals are somewhere between low and average for the industry, but the money factors are very low - bordering on almost 0% financing.
Just for example, the Audi A4's rates currently range from 60% for 24 months and 30k miles, with a .00010 MF, and 66% for the same terms with a .00180MF.
The residual sounds terrible on the first term, but the money factor actually more than makes up for it. The 66% residual on the second term sounds reasonable, and the .00180MF is pretty normal for a lease, but in the end your payment on the second set of terms is actually just a little bit higher. Not to mention if you do want to buy the car at the end of the term, you have to pay 10% more for the care than you would with the first terms.
It just goes to show that you can't always just look at residual values.
Granted, Lexus has a habit of having both low residuals and high money factors.
Generally the best rates can be had from BMW and Infiniti, though.