Notices
Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Innova

New vehicles keep inching up and putting on pounds

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 17, 2007 | 10:23 AM
  #1  
GFerg's Avatar
GFerg
Thread Starter
Speaks French in Russian
CL Folding 25,000
20 Year Member
Liked
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,397
Likes: 100
From: What is G?
Default New vehicles keep inching up and putting on pounds





CERRITOS, Calif. — Sure, the Nissan Quest minivan that Gino Shnayderman was sizing up looked a tad bigger than the older Toyota model it would replace. But that was OK. In his mind, more room meant it will carry more people.

"Wouldn't you want to get more?" Shnayderman asked as his dad circled the used Quest on the lot of a Honda dealer here in this Los Angeles suburb.

Lots of automakers think they know the answer. Despite high gas prices, the industry believes consumers view bigger as better. Cars and trucks have ballooned as a result.

Models getting the XXL treatment range from Audi's previously tiny TT sports car to the venerable Ford Taurus sedan among next-generation models. Even BMW's Mini is going to offer a maxi version.

The average 2007 midsize SUV has grown 10 inches in length, 4 inches in width and gained 474 pounds over the past decade, according to Edmunds.com, an auto-buying research site.

Compact sedans are an average 2 inches longer, 2 inches wider and 374 pounds heavier than in 1997. Midsize and large sedans weigh hundreds of pounds more as well.

Some cars have grown so much that they've switched size classifications. The 2007 Honda Civic has nearly the same legroom as a 1990 Accord, the model that's traditionally the next size up. The old Accord and current Civic weigh within about 100 pounds of each other. Later this year, the Accord will strike back, becoming even bigger just as it has in every previous redesign.

Automakers say they are just catering to the desires of customers. Boosting the size of vehicles helps foster brand loyalty as buyers stick with models they know and love even as their incomes and wants rise. "They'll say, 'I love the Rio. I just wish it were a little bit bigger,' " says Len Hunt, executive vice president of Kia Motors America, referring to his brand's entry-level subcompact.

For further validation they need go no further than research they receive from a big consultancy, J.D. Power and Associates, which measures the top reasons why customers walk away from a showroom. For every year the study was conducted since 2001, Power found twice as many consumers rejected models as being too small as rejected them for being too big.

The more-for-the-money mentality has been ingrained in auto executives for decades. "Have you ever been at a press event and heard them say, 'We've shrunk the car this year!' Nobody wants to say their car is getting smaller," says Edmunds.com editor Karl Brauer.

The industry's fascination with big comes at an awkward time, given how gas prices have escalated. More weight requires more horsepower, and consequently more fuel, to propel a vehicle. Last month, the Senate voted to increase fuel standards for the first time since 1975. The measure, which must pass in the House, would require an automaker's lineup to average 35 miles a gallon by 2020, up from the current 27.5 mpg.

Despite the growth in vehicle size, the average was 25.4 miles a gallon in 2006, latest government figures show, about the same as in 1986. Automakers have done that by equipping their bigger models with new, high-technology engines. In some cases, the newer, bigger cars and trucks actually get better mileage than the smaller models they replaced.

Of course, the models conceivably could have gotten even better mileage if their sizes and weights had been maintained from the previous generation.

"I don't hear people running around complaining their minivan isn't big enough. But I do hear them complaining their gas costs have increased compared to a few years ago," says David Friedman, research director for the vehicles program at the Union of Concerned Scientists.

Some buyers have rebelled against bloat. Sales of medium and large SUVs have fallen while sales of crossovers, which offer comparable space but often with less weight and better fuel economy, have increased.

"It's bad to get bigger. It costs more for gas. It costs more to park," says Ken Pham, 33, a construction worker from Norwalk, Calif., standing on the sidewalk in front of Cerritos Ford where his wife was inspecting a row of new Mustangs.

On the other hand, Toyota Camry and Honda Accord have remained the best-selling cars in the USA for years even as they've gotten bigger.

Americans have a love affair with big

All things oversized are favored by many Americans, whether it's cars, houses or pork chops.

A survey of 300 chefs found that most are serving up food portions two to four times what the government recommends, the Obesity Society was told last year. The government says two-thirds of Americans now rank as overweight or obese, defined as being more than 30 pounds beyond their healthy weight.

"Let's face it. Americans are getting bigger," says Ian Beavis, Kia's lean marketing chief when asked about how cars are gradually being upsized, including several Kia models.

The average American home completed during the first nine months of 2006 had 2,459 square feet, up from about 1,500 square feet in 1973, the National Association of Home Builders reports.

They may be feeding American appetites, but it isn't only the American-based automakers leading the automotive bulk-up.

Toyota, despite its industry reputation for fuel economy, is one of the most brazen. Its smallest SUV, the RAV4, gained 14.5 inches in length, 3 inches in width in its 2006 redesign, encroaching on the domain of the midsize Highlander. Toyota fixed that problem by stretching the Highlander another 4 inches, adding 3 inches to its width. Next up, Toyota is expected to unveil an even bigger Sequoia full-size model .

Toyota continues to upsize some of its smaller vehicles as well. The new Scion xB — what was previously an odd, boxy vehicle sometimes compared to a rolling microwave oven for the seriously hip — grew a foot longer, 3 inches wider and more than 600 pounds heavier when it recently went on sale. As a result, it consumes 14% more gas than the model it replaces.

Toyota offers the same reason as most automakers for the bigger sizes. "We want to listen to our customers," says spokesman Bill Kwong. And, he says, they often want bigger vehicles.

To give customers what they want, automakers have found ways of moving models around to try to get their size mix just right. Some of the tactics include:

•New small models at the bottom. As Chevrolet, Toyota, Honda and Nissan have seen their average car sizes grow, they realized they no longer offered the smallest of entry-level cars. Enter Aveo, Yaris, Fit and Versa, all introduced in the last couple of years to cater to a boomlet of Generation Y college students and other budget-conscious buyers.

General Motors ditched its Chevy Cavalier compact to replace it with two models: the smaller Aveo and the larger Cobalt.

•New big models at the top. Ford stopped making the midsize Taurus sedan last year. Rather than shelve a famous name, it handed the moniker to the redesigned, but slow-selling Five Hundred. That means the new Taurus is 4 inches longer, an inch wider and 419 pounds heavier than the previous one, even though they get about the same mileage.

BMW's Mini brand had its own problem. Executives felt they were losing sales to buyers who wanted a slightly larger, yet still sporty, car. The result will be the new Clubman, a Mini that's 9 inches longer, to be introduced next year. "It's for somebody who likes Mini but just needs a little extra space," says spokesman Andrew Cutler.

•Bigger models, less weight. Ford plans to hold the weight and size line on the redesign of its Focus subcompact, due out later this year. Actually, it will be lighter than the version it replaces, which should help improve fuel economy.

Audi may have found the perfect solution. Its new TT sports car is 5 inches longer and 3 inches wider than the first-generation model it replaces. But because it makes more extensive use of lightweight aluminum in its frame instead of steel, the new TT is 22 pounds lighter and gets better gas mileage despite having a larger engine.

As for the extra length, Audi spokesman Patrick Hespen says it was partly due to wanting to create a more stable ride. But from a competitive standpoint, the TT has more rivals than before, such as Nissan 350Z, Mercedes SLK and Porsche Cayman. TT will be sized right alongside the others.

Ford went through the same exercise when it was designing the Fusion sedan, which was introduced last year. An internal company document showed how car models of all major makers are positioned on a matrix. The grid showed that the future Fusion would be positioned to compete alongside the toughest competitors in the class, chiefly Accord and Camry.

Ford spokesman Jim Cain says the automaker learned the importance of position after the original midsize Taurus slipped out of the "sweet spot" of optimal size by not keeping up with those ever-growing Japanese models.

"If you have a midsize car that's a little too small, you might be limiting your (sales) volume potential. That's why you tend to find the Camry, Accord and Fusion all fairly clustered around this ratio," he says.

Out on the Cerritos Auto Square sales lots, customer Shnayderman, 44, a truck driver from Long Beach, Calif., was trying to be careful to find the right size minivan. He didn't mind that the Nissan was bigger — 7 inches longer and 500 pounds heavier — than his dad's old Toyota Previa.

"Everybody likes the square footage," he said. "It's second nature."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...big-cars_N.htm
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2007 | 10:27 AM
  #2  
PhilipMSPT's Avatar
PhilipMSPT
Cycle Savant
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,528
Likes: 9
From: In rehab...
Default

My '89 Camry is much smaller than the current Corollas. I still love her though...
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2007 | 10:33 AM
  #3  
rominl's Avatar
rominl
exclusive matchup
20 Year Member
Liked
Community Favorite
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 81,898
Likes: 496
From: Lovely OC
Default

Originally Posted by PhilipMSPT
My '89 Camry is much smaller than the current Corollas. I still love her though...
haha yeah, just a while back i was telling my wife how much "bigger" the corolla has gotten.

imho if it's for comfort (space) and also safety (better construction), i am ok with weights
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2007 | 02:43 PM
  #4  
ST430's Avatar
ST430
Pole Position
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 219
From: Silicon Valley
Default

One aspect the publisher forgets to cite is as safety requirement and options go up, so does the weight. Knee, side, curtain, hip, etc air bags while helpful in any accident adds weight quickly. Not to mention that consumers demand good crash rating worthiness these days as opposed to yesteryear so new door beams, more extensive saftey cage for occupants etc has to be engineered. I wont even mention how ever successive model is also required to be 4000 plus percent stiffer in rigidity and the like compounding the matter.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2007 | 02:51 PM
  #5  
TRDFantasy's Avatar
TRDFantasy
Lexus Fanatic
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
From: A better place
Default

Toyota continues to upsize some of its smaller vehicles as well. The new Scion xB — what was previously an odd, boxy vehicle sometimes compared to a rolling microwave oven for the seriously hip — grew a foot longer, 3 inches wider and more than 600 pounds heavier when it recently went on sale. As a result, it consumes 14% more gas than the model it replaces.
To be fair, the new xB also has a larger and more powerful engine than the old xB.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2007 | 03:39 PM
  #6  
PhilipMSPT's Avatar
PhilipMSPT
Cycle Savant
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,528
Likes: 9
From: In rehab...
Default

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
To be fair, the new xB also has a larger and more powerful engine than the old xB.
That's right.

14% more gas consumption, but 65% more power!!!

From 104 to 160 hp!!!
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2007 | 06:34 PM
  #7  
bitkahuna's Avatar
bitkahuna
CL Community Team
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 80,930
Likes: 4,063
Default

They're not all bigger in that chart by a long shot. They're all heavier though. Blame the safety ***** and the scaremonger TV shows.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2007 | 11:55 PM
  #8  
O. L. T.'s Avatar
O. L. T.
Keeper of the light
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (17)
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 34,122
Likes: 488
From: My little world
Default

The ES is an example of how you can turn a small car into a blimp.
Reply
ClubLexus Stories

Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe

story-0

2026 Lexus IS 350 F Sport Review: The Last of Its Kind Still Rocks

 Michael S. Palmer
story-1

Top 10 Most Confusing Things Lexus Has Ever Done!

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

2026 Lexus ES Review: Lexus Re-Embraces Founding Principles

 Michael S. Palmer
story-3

10 Lexus Bargains That are Cheaper Than a New Toyota RAV4

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

8 Weirdest Things Lexus Has Ever Built

 Verdad Gallardo
story-5

10 Lexus Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine

 Verdad Gallardo
story-6

8 Tips for Improving Your Hybrid or Plug-in Hybrid's Efficiency!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

10 Best Lexus Models No One Remembers

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

TRD Off-Road Premium: Best 2026 4Runner, Except This One Thing

 Michael S. Palmer
story-9

Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!

 Joe Kucinski
Old Jul 18, 2007 | 04:46 PM
  #9  
AzNMpower's Avatar
AzNMpower
Lead Lap
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 513
Likes: 1
From: VA
Default

Americans want bigger cars, period. If the car is too small, they complain loudly about no headroom or no seat space or no cargo space, regardless of how much space there actually is. Plus, there is the need for more safety equipment to make cars safer.

Honestly, I haven't been in many cars lately where it is too small. The Lexus IS does have limited room inside and a serious backseat problem, but otherwise I don't find much to complain. Mazda3 rental was fine, the 3-series has always been fine, Mini Cooper is fine (in the front).
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Gojirra99
Car Chat
5
Sep 13, 2007 06:28 AM
GFerg
Car Chat
9
Sep 22, 2005 11:34 AM
LexFather
Car Chat
6
Jul 18, 2005 01:29 PM
LexFather
Car Chat
0
Oct 13, 2003 04:45 AM




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:15 AM.

story-0
2026 Lexus IS 350 F Sport Review: The Last of Its Kind Still Rocks

Slideshow: the 2026 IS 350 isn't all that new, and that's why we love it!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-06-04 14:35:23


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 10 Most Confusing Things Lexus Has Ever Done!

Slideshow: 10 most confusing things Lexus has ever done.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-04 09:40:55


VIEW MORE
story-2
2026 Lexus ES Review: Lexus Re-Embraces Founding Principles

Slideshow: Our First-Drive Review of the 2026 Lexus ES!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-29 20:30:16


VIEW MORE
story-3
10 Lexus Bargains That are Cheaper Than a New Toyota RAV4

Slideshow: 10 Lexus bargain that are cheaper than a new Toyota.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-20 10:28:20


VIEW MORE
story-4
8 Weirdest Things Lexus Has Ever Built

Slideshow: From hoverboards to luxury yachts, these are the strangest projects Lexus has ever attached its badge to.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-16 11:34:36


VIEW MORE
story-5
10 Lexus Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine

Slideshow: Some luxury cars chase trends, but these Lexus models look better now than they did when they first rolled into showrooms.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-06 17:58:29


VIEW MORE
story-6
8 Tips for Improving Your Hybrid or Plug-in Hybrid's Efficiency!

Slideshow: How to Get the Best Fuel Economy with a Hybrid and Plug-In Hybrid!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-05 20:54:44


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Best Lexus Models No One Remembers

Slideshow: 10 best Lexus models no one remembers.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-05 17:33:28


VIEW MORE
story-8
TRD Off-Road Premium: Best 2026 4Runner, Except This One Thing

Slideshow: diving into 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium's pricing, performance, fuel economy, features, and amenities!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-23 13:09:18


VIEW MORE
story-9
Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!

Slideshow: the 10 Lexus and Toyota vehicles you need to drive before you die.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-23 10:34:24


VIEW MORE