Amazing how the German small sedans and coupes have come on strong so quick...
Amazing how the German small sedans and coupes have come on strong so quick...
The new C class, the 3-series sedan and coupe, and the A4 and A5... a potent line-up. 
And of course there will be AMG, 'M', and S/RS versions which will wow.
I find the 3 sedan look the weakest, but I really like all the rest.
Lexus has *1* model (IS) to compete with all these, seems like they really need to step it up. The IS is a great car though, but I find it a bit lacking compared to these in one way or another.
What do you think?
And of course there will be AMG, 'M', and S/RS versions which will wow.I find the 3 sedan look the weakest, but I really like all the rest.
Lexus has *1* model (IS) to compete with all these, seems like they really need to step it up. The IS is a great car though, but I find it a bit lacking compared to these in one way or another.
What do you think?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,350
Likes: 1
From: Inside
technically.. wasn't the IS supposed to come in coupe and drop-top flavors too?
and i figure with the launch of the IS-F it'll help with the competition just a bit.
I dunno if the IS-F will be a smash hit..the Germans have had several generations worth of performance models to learn, Lexus is "just" going into it right now.
I really hope the IS-F isn't a flop though.
and i figure with the launch of the IS-F it'll help with the competition just a bit.
I dunno if the IS-F will be a smash hit..the Germans have had several generations worth of performance models to learn, Lexus is "just" going into it right now.
I really hope the IS-F isn't a flop though.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
From: A better place
Technically, the 3 Series, A4, and C-Class are each *one* model line, and they have their own coupe variants. Realistically, there are many models in terms of engine combinations, or coupe/convertible combinations.
The IS as of now has two models: IS250/IS350. A third model, the IS-F is coming. And in the near future, there will be a fourth addition to the IS model line which will be an IS Coupe. There is also the rumoured convertible.
Far more than sales numbers, the IS-F will be the halo car for the entire IS line, and if it is a success on a worldwide scale, then ultimately it will make ALL IS models more desirable.
Lexus knows that they need to offer more choice and more variants of the IS, and they are coming soon enough.
So far with only the IS250/IS350 sedans, IS sales are quite strong. With the IS-F and coupe/convertible variants, I can see the IS matching or perhaps even exceeding ES sales.
The IS as of now has two models: IS250/IS350. A third model, the IS-F is coming. And in the near future, there will be a fourth addition to the IS model line which will be an IS Coupe. There is also the rumoured convertible.
Far more than sales numbers, the IS-F will be the halo car for the entire IS line, and if it is a success on a worldwide scale, then ultimately it will make ALL IS models more desirable.
Lexus knows that they need to offer more choice and more variants of the IS, and they are coming soon enough.
So far with only the IS250/IS350 sedans, IS sales are quite strong. With the IS-F and coupe/convertible variants, I can see the IS matching or perhaps even exceeding ES sales.
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,222
Likes: 3
From: CA
I know that Lexus dealers were really disappointed with the last gen IS300 since the big mid-cycle improvement was the addition of a wagon. They were really hoping for a coupe/convertible to freshen up the product mix.
That being said, I find the new IS250/350 to be a really attractive car--far more so than its German competition. It may be my own bias, but I seem to see more new IS's on the road than new 3's or C's. The 3-series in particular, with its horrible execution of the already poor Bangle design, took perhaps the hottest-looking entry luxury car on the market and just plain butchered it. I know some people will look beyond all that in order to attain the coveted roundel in their garage, but I have to think that sales have suffered somewhat.
How's the TL doing? I'm starting to see more of the new Type-S variants on the road--now THAT was a smart mid-cycle move on Acura's part.
That being said, I find the new IS250/350 to be a really attractive car--far more so than its German competition. It may be my own bias, but I seem to see more new IS's on the road than new 3's or C's. The 3-series in particular, with its horrible execution of the already poor Bangle design, took perhaps the hottest-looking entry luxury car on the market and just plain butchered it. I know some people will look beyond all that in order to attain the coveted roundel in their garage, but I have to think that sales have suffered somewhat.
How's the TL doing? I'm starting to see more of the new Type-S variants on the road--now THAT was a smart mid-cycle move on Acura's part.
I think Lexus shouldn't try to directly compete the Germans. I don't know how or in what way, but that's Toyota's job to figure out
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Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 212
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From: Los Angeles
Lexus should compete directly with BMW. The IS 250/350 was the first step. The next step should be the ISF.
Lexus should look forward to the next level. The competition between Lexus and BWM in North America (especially in California) is actually good for Lexus. Competition motivates Lexus to do better in engineering, automotive performance, design quality, and competitive pricing. Regardless who wins the luxury automotive wars, the consumer always wins.
Lexus should look forward to the next level. The competition between Lexus and BWM in North America (especially in California) is actually good for Lexus. Competition motivates Lexus to do better in engineering, automotive performance, design quality, and competitive pricing. Regardless who wins the luxury automotive wars, the consumer always wins.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,375
Likes: 21
From: California
Actually,
The lack of variants from Lexus has been noted since the brand was first launched. Everyone tends to look at the IS for not offering enough varieties when in fact, the same could be said for the LS 17 years ago.
Back in 1990, when the LS400 was first introduced, for the North American market alone, Mercedes already had the 300/420/560 SE/SEL models, as well as the 560SEC and the SL convertible models. BMW also had 735i/735iL/750iL variants.
Of course, even back then, the E30 3 series had various models such as the 318/325 sedans, coupes, and convertibles (along with the M3), while the ES300 was nothing but a stand alone model from Lexus.
Even after all these years, Lexus has been doing better and better years after years. I am sure Lexus can hold its own in the future as well.
Jon
The lack of variants from Lexus has been noted since the brand was first launched. Everyone tends to look at the IS for not offering enough varieties when in fact, the same could be said for the LS 17 years ago.
Back in 1990, when the LS400 was first introduced, for the North American market alone, Mercedes already had the 300/420/560 SE/SEL models, as well as the 560SEC and the SL convertible models. BMW also had 735i/735iL/750iL variants.
Of course, even back then, the E30 3 series had various models such as the 318/325 sedans, coupes, and convertibles (along with the M3), while the ES300 was nothing but a stand alone model from Lexus.
Even after all these years, Lexus has been doing better and better years after years. I am sure Lexus can hold its own in the future as well.
Jon
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 0
From: NYC/ATL
The 3series, Cclass and A4/5 are the bread and butter of the Germans, Toyota sells tons of Corollas and Camrys to offset what the Germans sell with the small cars, so while Lexus can release cars at a slower pace the Germans can't cause they have nothing to fall back on.
CL Community Team
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,403
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From: IL
It'll cost more than that to replace the first headlight in the RX that fails due to condensation.....
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 513
Likes: 1
From: VA
I agree with you on the facelifted TL. The new semi-clear taillights look like a half-assed job (I actually liked the all-red treatment better than current one). The type-S has hideous rims, a vulgar-looking exhaust, and too much power to the wrong wheels (not like the base TL doesn't have that problem already). It's not subtle nor elegant in any way.
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
From: VI
the japanese are largely responsible for this.
id say lexus is doing a fine job as is. you cant look at the IS alone and compare it to the others. you have to consider both the IS and ES, which together are doing pretty well
regarding the german lineup. bmw is very concerned with infiniti. the g coupe outsold the 3 coupe alone, in its first gen out. that's incredible when you consider how important badges and image are. lexus and acura are indirectly attacking the market. acura's TL is more of a value proposition while the ES hits a segment that otherwise doesnt really exist, and the IS fits somewhere between the C and 3.
either way, increased competition means we all win.
id say lexus is doing a fine job as is. you cant look at the IS alone and compare it to the others. you have to consider both the IS and ES, which together are doing pretty well
regarding the german lineup. bmw is very concerned with infiniti. the g coupe outsold the 3 coupe alone, in its first gen out. that's incredible when you consider how important badges and image are. lexus and acura are indirectly attacking the market. acura's TL is more of a value proposition while the ES hits a segment that otherwise doesnt really exist, and the IS fits somewhere between the C and 3.
either way, increased competition means we all win.