mmarshall
01-31-08, 02:31 PM
A Mini-Review of the 2008 Subaru Outback Sport.
http://www.subaru.com/shop/overview.jsp?model=IMPREZA&trim=SPORT&command=overview
http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/aic/subaru_outback_sport_2008_440x220.jpg
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/imp08obsilverside2.JPG
http://blogs.cars.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/05/wrxclose1.jpg
In a Nutshell: A 2.5i Impreza wagon with two-tone paint, more aggressive wheels/suspension, and some added cold-weather equipment.
Subarus, especially Impreza/Forester and Legacy/Outback-based models, for the price, rank very high in my book as some of the best daily drivers in the American market, especially for areas with wet and slick roads. I spent three days at the D.C. Auto Show last week looking at them.......and all the other brands there, of course. Though I was extremely disappointed with the advance-displayed-model 2009 L.L. Bean Forester (it may or may not actually reach production that way), I did like the job they did on the new Impreza and Outback Sport (far better, IMO, than the displayed Forester), and thought that the Outback Sport would be worth a closer look at and a test-drive for my own curiosity. This is a car that I could actually see myself owning, as a personal daily driver...it has many of the features I like (and a couple that I don't) at a moderate price that won't clean out your bank account. Though not certain, it could be a possible next purchase for me (I still, overall, prefer the regular, Legacy-based Outback for ride comfort and room inside). But, if they screw up the next-generation Outback like they did the displayed 2009 Forester, and I don't decide to replace my 3-year-old Outback next year with a 2008 or 2009 before the new redesigned 2010 outback comes out, a new Outback Sport could be a strong possibility. It has same, Old Faithful, 2.5L boxer engine and Symmetrical All-Wheel-Drive that the Legacy/Outback has, and the same generally good reliability. It does lack some ground clearance, ride comfort, and interior rear seat/cargo room compared to its slightly larger cousin, and the dash and door trim is not quite as nice. But it also sells at a real bargain price for what it DOES offer. And it handles almost with sport-sedan response due to its low center of gravity, quick steering, and stiff chassis/tires.
As I looked at this car primarily for my own interest and curiosity, and not by special request, I was not planning to do a formal write-up on it, but a few CL members asked me to share my findings on it, so I decided to do a condensed, mini-review. I also refrained from writing a full review because I have already done a full review of the new manual-transmission base-model 2008 Impreza 2.5i sedan, and the Impreza and Outback Sport share basic design and many components....in fact, above the belt line, the Impreza 2.5i wagon and Outback Sport are almost identical except for the roof racks.
So here, in a somewhat condensed version, are my findings:
Model Reviewed: 2008 Subaru Outback Sport
Base Price: $19,995
Major Options:
Automatic transmission $1000
Destination: $645
List Price as Reviewed: $21,640
Exterior Color: Two-Tone Steel silver Metallic/Spark Silver Metallic
Interior: Black cloth
Drivetrain:
Symmetrical, active AWD, horizontally-opposed, SOHC, aluminum "boxer" four, 170 HP @ 6000 RPM, torque 170 ft-lbs. @ 4400 RPM,
4-speed automatic transmission with Sport-shift.
PLUSSES::thumbup:
Go in the snow for a moderate price....even less for a standard Impreza.
Well-above-average quality and reliability record of previous model bodes well for this one.
Simple, durable, well-proved AWD design.
Stability/traction control available.....unusual in this class.
Well-done paint job.
New door design this year has full-frames for window glass.
Nicely done exterior trim and chrome.
Durable exterior hardware.
Unusual standard 3-Year warranty on wear items like brake pads, clutch linings, and wiper blades.
Standard Incline Start Assist for manual-transmission models.
Standard keyless entry, security system, and engine immobilizer.
New stereo this year has easy-to-use knob for tuning.
New, well-designed steering wheel buttons this year for cruise control and stereo.
Plenty of headroom with front seats lowered.
Standard heated seats and heated windshield wipers for cold weather and snow/ice.
Quick steering response and handling almost to sport-sedan standards.
Smooth, crisp-shifting automatic.
Solid-feeling hood and hatchback lift.
New gas struts for the hood this year (unusual in this class) replaces the cheap prop-rod.
New ABS/EFD/Brake Assist braking system has less sponginess than before.
Well-padded armrests on front door panels for comfort.
Excellent control and gauge layout.
Standard vinyl cargo-compartment tray protects the carpeting.
Good engine access underhood and ease of oil changes.
Active head restraints for safety.
Many different accessories and protective-gear hardware available.
MINUSES::thumbdn:
More rakish rear roofline this year cuts down a little on cargo room.
Temperature gauge gone due to cost-cutting. (it remains on the WRX and STi)
Limited monotone color choice on regular Imprezas and extremely limited, two-tone-only color choice on Outback Sport.
Driver/passenger front bucket seat noticeably smaller than on regular Outback, and marginal for large people.
Tight rear seat legroom and too firmly-padded seats.
Lower-profile tires and more aggressive suspension than regular Impreza give a stiffer ride.
Ground clearance much lower than regular Outback, and marginal for deep snow.
Haunted-House groaning/howling noises from strong crosswinds on the roof rack.
AWD saps engine power and mileage.
Somewhat tight wheel wells don't leave much room for packed snow/slush.
New doors noticeably thinner than before, but still close shut solidly.
Wide-ratio 4-speed automatic transmission could use another gear.
Too much noise and vibration inside and in the steering wheel.
Unpleasant, 2-tone hard plastic covers entire dash and upper console.
12-spoke alloy wheels relatively difficult to clean by hand.
Ziz-zag transmission shifter unpleasant to use.
No factory wood-tone trim options available inside.
Somewhat limited availability at dealerships.....not many are kept in stock, compared to regular Outbacks.
EXTERIOR:
Same body shell as 2.5i Impreza wagon, but with roof rack, fog lights, two-tone paint with contrast-color lower-body panels, bumpers, and outside door-mouldings. Extremely well-done exterior classy trim and chrome. Solid-feeling, swiveling, body-color exterior mirrors. Well-done paint, with some of best titanium-gray/silver metallic texture I've seen. Smooth, even finish, high gloss, no visible orange-peel...only flaw is a raised line you can feel with your fingers where the two colors meet. The solid hood, held up with new-this-year gas struts, closes with a thud. Liftback not quite as solid, but still not tinny. Rear wiper arm well-designed, allowing full-tilt-up access for easy blade changes. New, window-framed doors this year feel thinner, but close solidly with a "Thunk". The hour-glass-shaped D-pillars and more slanted rear liftback this year compromise cargo room a little (not severely), but not rear headroom, which is better than average for its class (more on that below). The main exterior problems are less ground clearance than the regular Outback, complex 12-spoke alloy wheels that are tedious to clean, not as much room in the wheel wells for snow, mud and slush to accumulate as in the regular Outback, and a roof rack that allows strong winds to howl and moan like a haunted house....I tested the car in 40-50 MPH gusts on a very windy day.
UNDERHOOD ACCESS:
New gas struts this year MUCH nicer than the old cheap prop-rod. Same ubiquitous 2.5i work-horse engine as many other U.S. market Subaru models. Good access to upper-engine components.....NO plastic engine cover, which is nice. Good access to all dipsticks, filler caps, fluid reservoirs, battery, and ABS/engine electronics. Underhood insulation pad helps a little with engine noise, but Subaru flat-fours are not noted for quietness. Simple, easy oil changes with filter and drain plug readily accessable under the front bumper....but lower ground clearance makes it more difficult than on regular Outback if you don't use ramps or a lift.
INTERIOR:
Not excessively cheap, but defintely not an upscale car. Cloth on front and rear seats feels high-quality. Front bucket seats are physically smaller and less solid-feeling than on Legacy/Outback. The manual seat adjusters work well, and, without sunroof, the seats can be lowered enough for excellent front headroom, even for people my height. The seat adjusters are solid-feeling and durable. Both front and rear seats are very firmly padded. Hard, unpleasant plastic is used all across the dash/upper console and lacks wood trim, but the contrasting color patterns are nice. The painted plastic does not look as poor as it does in some rivals. As is typical of Subarus, all the buttons, dials, knobs, and levers are well-marked and easy to use. The primary gauges are also well-designed, well-marked, and easy to read, but the loss of the temperature gauge to cost-cutting this year is annoying..........replaced by blue and red cold/hot idiot lights. Subaru, quietly, apparantly thought nobody would notice. Well, I noticed.....and I also noticed that the WRX and STi versions retain the gauge. Legroom is adequate in front, tight to very-tight in the rear, depending on how the front seat is adjusted. The stereo is nice, in fact better-then-average, but not quite Lexus-quality....and it does have a easy-to-use knob for frequency tuning, something that too many vehicles use awkward buttons or rocker switches for. Headroom in front is excellent, good in the rear. Though it is no luxury car, Workmanship all throughout the interior was first-class, of high quality, and everything was assembled well...the only things I really disliked were the lightweight feel and small size of the front seats compared to those in the regular Outback and the ever-annoying ziz-zag transmission shifter. And, even though it is not a luxury car, Subaru does toss in a standard leather-covered three-spoke sport-steering wheel as part of the deal. The literature says that the shift handle is also leather-covered, but mine appeared to be light gray plastic. The sun visors work OK but are of a cheaper-feeling material than the regular Outback.
REAR CARGO AREA:
Slightly less space-efficient than last year from increased rake of the rear roofline, but still not bad for a vehicle this size. Standard vinyl cargo-floor cover is a nice touch...that feature is a dealer accessory on the standard 2.5i Impreza wagon. Trunk generally well-finished with nice carpet. Temporary spare tire and jack in usual place under the floor. Liftgate extremely well-finished with smooth, wide chrome bar, clear-light lenses, and Subaru company logo.
ON THE ROAD:
Conventional ignition key and switch on the side of the steering column with night-illumination ring for switch. Subaru 2.5L "boxer" flat-four grainy and somewhat noisy, but helped by the underhood insulation pad. Power level adequate for normal driving, but no more....the load on the engine from the weight/drag of the AWD and 4-speed automatic is noticeable. The transmission, by today's standards, has rather wide ratios and, like on the larger 2.5i Outback, could use a fifth or sixth gear and closer spacing. The transmission itself is smooth and quiet, whether shifted in manual or automatic mode, but the aforementioned ziz-zag shifter IMO is annoying. Automakers used to use a simple, no-nonsense, straight-forward/back pattern for the lever.........and some, like Ford and GM, still do. Handling is excellent, especially considering the compromised 50-series all-season tires, with flat cornering, quick steering response, very little body roll, though the steering itself, unlike some other Subarus, lacks firm road feel and effort. The flip side to this semi-sports-sedan handling, is, of course, a firm, somewhat noisy ride that not only allows bumps to be clearly felt and heard but a slight, grainy vibration (not a shimmy) to come through the front suspension and steering column to the wheel (standard Imprezas come with a softer suspension and smoother-riding 55-series all-seasons). Overall, I much preferred the smoother ride and steering of the larger Outbacks.....I found the Outback Sport a little firm for my tastes, and don't need the sharper handling and steering response the smaller car gives.
THE VERDICT?
A little firm-riding and noisy for my tastes, but an excellent bargain for 20-22K if you need a low-to-moderate priced snow car with good cold-weather
features. It is smart-looking with the two-tone paint and trim and extremely well-finished on the outside, although only four paint combinations are possible, and the gold/gray two-tone IMO is ugly. The interior is not lavish, but well-assembled, though the front seats feel like they could use stronger mounting supports. It needs a little more ground clearance to be a true deep-snow car, and is a simple temperature gauge too much to ask? But it is otherwise well-designed, and is a dandy litle daily driver for bad-weather areas as long as the snow or mud is not really deep. But if all you want is an inexpensive snow car without a lot of frills, the regular Impreza and the Suzuki SX-4 both undercut the Outback Sport in price. Regular Imprezas start at just 17K (see my review) and the Suzuki (which I have also reviewed) starts at 15-16K. And the Suzuki, unlike any Subaru product, has a 3-position switch for 4WD, 2WD, and LOCK, so you can run it on only the two front wheels for better acceleration and gas mileage when conditions allow. But if you want sharp handling, the Outback Sport is the way to go (short of the WRX and STi, of course). The Outback Sport will easily outhandle both the Impreza and the SX-4, though, of course, at the cost of a stiffer ride. The recently displayed, all-new Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe have once again brought back the AWD option which was dropped two years ago, but I can't comment on them much.....I've only seen them at the D.C. auto show and don't know the pricing yet. But I plan to review at least one of them (they are basically twins) in the future..,..they could be good competition for both Subaru and Suzuki.
http://www.subaru.com/shop/overview.jsp?model=IMPREZA&trim=SPORT&command=overview
http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/aic/subaru_outback_sport_2008_440x220.jpg
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/imp08obsilverside2.JPG
http://blogs.cars.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/05/wrxclose1.jpg
In a Nutshell: A 2.5i Impreza wagon with two-tone paint, more aggressive wheels/suspension, and some added cold-weather equipment.
Subarus, especially Impreza/Forester and Legacy/Outback-based models, for the price, rank very high in my book as some of the best daily drivers in the American market, especially for areas with wet and slick roads. I spent three days at the D.C. Auto Show last week looking at them.......and all the other brands there, of course. Though I was extremely disappointed with the advance-displayed-model 2009 L.L. Bean Forester (it may or may not actually reach production that way), I did like the job they did on the new Impreza and Outback Sport (far better, IMO, than the displayed Forester), and thought that the Outback Sport would be worth a closer look at and a test-drive for my own curiosity. This is a car that I could actually see myself owning, as a personal daily driver...it has many of the features I like (and a couple that I don't) at a moderate price that won't clean out your bank account. Though not certain, it could be a possible next purchase for me (I still, overall, prefer the regular, Legacy-based Outback for ride comfort and room inside). But, if they screw up the next-generation Outback like they did the displayed 2009 Forester, and I don't decide to replace my 3-year-old Outback next year with a 2008 or 2009 before the new redesigned 2010 outback comes out, a new Outback Sport could be a strong possibility. It has same, Old Faithful, 2.5L boxer engine and Symmetrical All-Wheel-Drive that the Legacy/Outback has, and the same generally good reliability. It does lack some ground clearance, ride comfort, and interior rear seat/cargo room compared to its slightly larger cousin, and the dash and door trim is not quite as nice. But it also sells at a real bargain price for what it DOES offer. And it handles almost with sport-sedan response due to its low center of gravity, quick steering, and stiff chassis/tires.
As I looked at this car primarily for my own interest and curiosity, and not by special request, I was not planning to do a formal write-up on it, but a few CL members asked me to share my findings on it, so I decided to do a condensed, mini-review. I also refrained from writing a full review because I have already done a full review of the new manual-transmission base-model 2008 Impreza 2.5i sedan, and the Impreza and Outback Sport share basic design and many components....in fact, above the belt line, the Impreza 2.5i wagon and Outback Sport are almost identical except for the roof racks.
So here, in a somewhat condensed version, are my findings:
Model Reviewed: 2008 Subaru Outback Sport
Base Price: $19,995
Major Options:
Automatic transmission $1000
Destination: $645
List Price as Reviewed: $21,640
Exterior Color: Two-Tone Steel silver Metallic/Spark Silver Metallic
Interior: Black cloth
Drivetrain:
Symmetrical, active AWD, horizontally-opposed, SOHC, aluminum "boxer" four, 170 HP @ 6000 RPM, torque 170 ft-lbs. @ 4400 RPM,
4-speed automatic transmission with Sport-shift.
PLUSSES::thumbup:
Go in the snow for a moderate price....even less for a standard Impreza.
Well-above-average quality and reliability record of previous model bodes well for this one.
Simple, durable, well-proved AWD design.
Stability/traction control available.....unusual in this class.
Well-done paint job.
New door design this year has full-frames for window glass.
Nicely done exterior trim and chrome.
Durable exterior hardware.
Unusual standard 3-Year warranty on wear items like brake pads, clutch linings, and wiper blades.
Standard Incline Start Assist for manual-transmission models.
Standard keyless entry, security system, and engine immobilizer.
New stereo this year has easy-to-use knob for tuning.
New, well-designed steering wheel buttons this year for cruise control and stereo.
Plenty of headroom with front seats lowered.
Standard heated seats and heated windshield wipers for cold weather and snow/ice.
Quick steering response and handling almost to sport-sedan standards.
Smooth, crisp-shifting automatic.
Solid-feeling hood and hatchback lift.
New gas struts for the hood this year (unusual in this class) replaces the cheap prop-rod.
New ABS/EFD/Brake Assist braking system has less sponginess than before.
Well-padded armrests on front door panels for comfort.
Excellent control and gauge layout.
Standard vinyl cargo-compartment tray protects the carpeting.
Good engine access underhood and ease of oil changes.
Active head restraints for safety.
Many different accessories and protective-gear hardware available.
MINUSES::thumbdn:
More rakish rear roofline this year cuts down a little on cargo room.
Temperature gauge gone due to cost-cutting. (it remains on the WRX and STi)
Limited monotone color choice on regular Imprezas and extremely limited, two-tone-only color choice on Outback Sport.
Driver/passenger front bucket seat noticeably smaller than on regular Outback, and marginal for large people.
Tight rear seat legroom and too firmly-padded seats.
Lower-profile tires and more aggressive suspension than regular Impreza give a stiffer ride.
Ground clearance much lower than regular Outback, and marginal for deep snow.
Haunted-House groaning/howling noises from strong crosswinds on the roof rack.
AWD saps engine power and mileage.
Somewhat tight wheel wells don't leave much room for packed snow/slush.
New doors noticeably thinner than before, but still close shut solidly.
Wide-ratio 4-speed automatic transmission could use another gear.
Too much noise and vibration inside and in the steering wheel.
Unpleasant, 2-tone hard plastic covers entire dash and upper console.
12-spoke alloy wheels relatively difficult to clean by hand.
Ziz-zag transmission shifter unpleasant to use.
No factory wood-tone trim options available inside.
Somewhat limited availability at dealerships.....not many are kept in stock, compared to regular Outbacks.
EXTERIOR:
Same body shell as 2.5i Impreza wagon, but with roof rack, fog lights, two-tone paint with contrast-color lower-body panels, bumpers, and outside door-mouldings. Extremely well-done exterior classy trim and chrome. Solid-feeling, swiveling, body-color exterior mirrors. Well-done paint, with some of best titanium-gray/silver metallic texture I've seen. Smooth, even finish, high gloss, no visible orange-peel...only flaw is a raised line you can feel with your fingers where the two colors meet. The solid hood, held up with new-this-year gas struts, closes with a thud. Liftback not quite as solid, but still not tinny. Rear wiper arm well-designed, allowing full-tilt-up access for easy blade changes. New, window-framed doors this year feel thinner, but close solidly with a "Thunk". The hour-glass-shaped D-pillars and more slanted rear liftback this year compromise cargo room a little (not severely), but not rear headroom, which is better than average for its class (more on that below). The main exterior problems are less ground clearance than the regular Outback, complex 12-spoke alloy wheels that are tedious to clean, not as much room in the wheel wells for snow, mud and slush to accumulate as in the regular Outback, and a roof rack that allows strong winds to howl and moan like a haunted house....I tested the car in 40-50 MPH gusts on a very windy day.
UNDERHOOD ACCESS:
New gas struts this year MUCH nicer than the old cheap prop-rod. Same ubiquitous 2.5i work-horse engine as many other U.S. market Subaru models. Good access to upper-engine components.....NO plastic engine cover, which is nice. Good access to all dipsticks, filler caps, fluid reservoirs, battery, and ABS/engine electronics. Underhood insulation pad helps a little with engine noise, but Subaru flat-fours are not noted for quietness. Simple, easy oil changes with filter and drain plug readily accessable under the front bumper....but lower ground clearance makes it more difficult than on regular Outback if you don't use ramps or a lift.
INTERIOR:
Not excessively cheap, but defintely not an upscale car. Cloth on front and rear seats feels high-quality. Front bucket seats are physically smaller and less solid-feeling than on Legacy/Outback. The manual seat adjusters work well, and, without sunroof, the seats can be lowered enough for excellent front headroom, even for people my height. The seat adjusters are solid-feeling and durable. Both front and rear seats are very firmly padded. Hard, unpleasant plastic is used all across the dash/upper console and lacks wood trim, but the contrasting color patterns are nice. The painted plastic does not look as poor as it does in some rivals. As is typical of Subarus, all the buttons, dials, knobs, and levers are well-marked and easy to use. The primary gauges are also well-designed, well-marked, and easy to read, but the loss of the temperature gauge to cost-cutting this year is annoying..........replaced by blue and red cold/hot idiot lights. Subaru, quietly, apparantly thought nobody would notice. Well, I noticed.....and I also noticed that the WRX and STi versions retain the gauge. Legroom is adequate in front, tight to very-tight in the rear, depending on how the front seat is adjusted. The stereo is nice, in fact better-then-average, but not quite Lexus-quality....and it does have a easy-to-use knob for frequency tuning, something that too many vehicles use awkward buttons or rocker switches for. Headroom in front is excellent, good in the rear. Though it is no luxury car, Workmanship all throughout the interior was first-class, of high quality, and everything was assembled well...the only things I really disliked were the lightweight feel and small size of the front seats compared to those in the regular Outback and the ever-annoying ziz-zag transmission shifter. And, even though it is not a luxury car, Subaru does toss in a standard leather-covered three-spoke sport-steering wheel as part of the deal. The literature says that the shift handle is also leather-covered, but mine appeared to be light gray plastic. The sun visors work OK but are of a cheaper-feeling material than the regular Outback.
REAR CARGO AREA:
Slightly less space-efficient than last year from increased rake of the rear roofline, but still not bad for a vehicle this size. Standard vinyl cargo-floor cover is a nice touch...that feature is a dealer accessory on the standard 2.5i Impreza wagon. Trunk generally well-finished with nice carpet. Temporary spare tire and jack in usual place under the floor. Liftgate extremely well-finished with smooth, wide chrome bar, clear-light lenses, and Subaru company logo.
ON THE ROAD:
Conventional ignition key and switch on the side of the steering column with night-illumination ring for switch. Subaru 2.5L "boxer" flat-four grainy and somewhat noisy, but helped by the underhood insulation pad. Power level adequate for normal driving, but no more....the load on the engine from the weight/drag of the AWD and 4-speed automatic is noticeable. The transmission, by today's standards, has rather wide ratios and, like on the larger 2.5i Outback, could use a fifth or sixth gear and closer spacing. The transmission itself is smooth and quiet, whether shifted in manual or automatic mode, but the aforementioned ziz-zag shifter IMO is annoying. Automakers used to use a simple, no-nonsense, straight-forward/back pattern for the lever.........and some, like Ford and GM, still do. Handling is excellent, especially considering the compromised 50-series all-season tires, with flat cornering, quick steering response, very little body roll, though the steering itself, unlike some other Subarus, lacks firm road feel and effort. The flip side to this semi-sports-sedan handling, is, of course, a firm, somewhat noisy ride that not only allows bumps to be clearly felt and heard but a slight, grainy vibration (not a shimmy) to come through the front suspension and steering column to the wheel (standard Imprezas come with a softer suspension and smoother-riding 55-series all-seasons). Overall, I much preferred the smoother ride and steering of the larger Outbacks.....I found the Outback Sport a little firm for my tastes, and don't need the sharper handling and steering response the smaller car gives.
THE VERDICT?
A little firm-riding and noisy for my tastes, but an excellent bargain for 20-22K if you need a low-to-moderate priced snow car with good cold-weather
features. It is smart-looking with the two-tone paint and trim and extremely well-finished on the outside, although only four paint combinations are possible, and the gold/gray two-tone IMO is ugly. The interior is not lavish, but well-assembled, though the front seats feel like they could use stronger mounting supports. It needs a little more ground clearance to be a true deep-snow car, and is a simple temperature gauge too much to ask? But it is otherwise well-designed, and is a dandy litle daily driver for bad-weather areas as long as the snow or mud is not really deep. But if all you want is an inexpensive snow car without a lot of frills, the regular Impreza and the Suzuki SX-4 both undercut the Outback Sport in price. Regular Imprezas start at just 17K (see my review) and the Suzuki (which I have also reviewed) starts at 15-16K. And the Suzuki, unlike any Subaru product, has a 3-position switch for 4WD, 2WD, and LOCK, so you can run it on only the two front wheels for better acceleration and gas mileage when conditions allow. But if you want sharp handling, the Outback Sport is the way to go (short of the WRX and STi, of course). The Outback Sport will easily outhandle both the Impreza and the SX-4, though, of course, at the cost of a stiffer ride. The recently displayed, all-new Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe have once again brought back the AWD option which was dropped two years ago, but I can't comment on them much.....I've only seen them at the D.C. auto show and don't know the pricing yet. But I plan to review at least one of them (they are basically twins) in the future..,..they could be good competition for both Subaru and Suzuki.