IS-F spearheads multiple model roll-out

Philip King | April 05, 2008

NEW model activity is the lifeblood of any brand and Lexus is gearing up for a transfusion.

Chief among its initiatives is the IS-F -- a performance version of its junior executive sedan that launches in October against the might of BMW's M3, the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG and Audi's RS4. The IS-F has a 300kW 5.0-litre V8 driving the rear wheels via an eight-speed auto.

In future, the "F" will denote Lexus performance tuning. Other models destined for the treatment include the GS and, possibly, the full-size LS limo.

The move parallels the strategy of the German luxury brands and Lexus hopes to soon be rivalling them for sales, too.

"In the next two to three years, Lexus will deliver more than 1 million vehicles globally," Lexus Australia chief executive John Roca said this week.

Sustaining that sort of volume will be achieved by adding a model below the IS, intended as an entry-level sedan or hatch to compete against the BMW 1 Series or Audi A3. It's still a few years away.

Another element in the strategy is a more complete embrace of hybrid technology, with an emphasis on performance. A hybrid powertrain will soon be available on every model and Lexus plans to show a pure hybrid concept at next year's Detroit show. This will be a kind of Lexus "Prius" although it's not yet confirmed for production.

Next year will also see the arrival of the next-generation RX crossover SUV, following a taster concept at the 2007 Tokyo motor show. The new RX will have more aggressive styling and an increase in size, but remain a five-seater.

The IS range will be further expanded late next year with a coupe/convertible, which is currently being tested in Australia. In the meantime, Lexus is offering another special edition called the IS250 X, with a bundle of added features, including a Mark Levinson stereo, sunroof, satnav, Bluetooth and unique wheels. Just 450 will be available from $64,790.

The most eagerly awaited Lexus, though, is the LF-A supercar and uncertainty still surrounds its arrival date. Roca said the LF-A would definitely go into production -- possibly in 2011 -- although it might be built only in left-hand drive. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23484754-13232,00.html
.

the LF-A would definitely go into production -- possibly in 2011 2011 :rolleyes:

Good find!! Amazing to see where they are going. I really hope to see more "F" cars.

You know i'm happy to hear that Lexus in Australia is expanding. This will mean better services for all.

I'm also happy to hear about the expansion of the IS range..but not sure why they intro'd the X package, maybe it's just to keep things rolling in between times.

IS coupe/ convertible currently been tested in Australia ay? :confused::confused:

http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/lexus-is-f-mag-image.jpg
http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Luxurious/lexus.jpg

Good find!! Amazing to see where they are going. I really hope to see more "F" cars.

So you believe all these pronouncements and rumors, but as soon as Acura says ANYTHING you immediately diss it?

So you believe all these pronouncements and rumors, but as soon as Acura says ANYTHING you immediately diss it?

Thing is, we know for sure that the IS Coupe/cabrio variants are coming, and we know for sure that a production LF-A is coming. The only possible rumour here is the GS-F, which has not been confirmed.

As for Acura, sorry but they have a long history of making wild claims, and talking up a storm yet never delivering on their word or their promises.

Lexus has a history of delivering on their promises and on their word.

Looking around on forums, Honda and Acura enthusiasts themselves are sick and tired of the claims and promises made by Acura/Honda. They're tired of all the talk that's been going on for years. They just want to see results; to see product.

i am very skeptical about ls-f still.

however, gs-f i am pretty sure they will make the car. and seriously that could be one car that i want to trade up for

A 1-series competitor? Does that mean they will make a IS-like model but smaller :p not that it isnt small already. hehe

I want to see a GS-F in production! makes my 250 seem slower/older :D

2011 :rolleyes:About the year after which they plan on winning their first Grand Prix, I suppose.:uh: Otherwise I can't figure out what's gonna take them 3 extra years.:dunno:

About the year after which they plan on winning their first Grand Prix, I suppose.:uh: Otherwise I can't figure out what's gonna take them 3 extra years.:dunno:
well i guess it all depends on how "conceptual" the lf-a we have seen so far are. if it's going to be their first real attempt to exotic, which they have much fewer references to from competitions as well as company history, that can take longer. of course i want to see the car sooner too

hehehe, unlike the nsx, apparently from drawing board to real car is like 2 yrs :D

Wish they would give some word on the 3generation SC unless the LS-A is suppose to be the new SC but what other changes can they do to the SC to keep its styling fresh?

Wow the target was 700,000 IIRC and now 1 million?

Bring on the IS coupe and convertible please!!!

New compact...Lexus CS; i.e. CS 200, CS 250; or Lexus JX, i.e. JX 250, JX 350

New hybrid...HS or something better...

RX stays to winning formula...guess that means the 7-seater will supplant or complement the GX? The new VX? I thought that perhaps an RX 350 and RX 350 L...

I would like to see an LS-F. Not sure about the market but looking at what they did to make the IS-F...

So you believe all these pronouncements and rumors, but as soon as Acura says ANYTHING you immediately diss it?
This Australian release really tells us nothing new. Bottom line is

Lexus= Walks the Walk
Acura= Talks the Talk until we are blue in the face and feed us unicorn dreams.

This Australian release really tells us nothing new. Bottom line is

Lexus= Walks the Walk
Acura= Talks the Talk until we are blue in the face and feed us unicorn dreams.

Nice spin, Mr. Unsubstantiated Claim. :rolleyes:

I'm glad Lexus came through with all their promises regarding the first-gen IS as their 3-series beater. A lackluster sedan, and when mid-cycle refresh time came, despite all the rumors of a coupe and a convertible, we got a station wagon.

I'm glad Lexus came through with all their promises regarding L-Tuned being the answer to //M and AMG. A few model years of bolt-ons on two models that was hardly marketed... heck, even most Lexus salespeople still don't know what it is/was.

I'm glad Lexus lived up to their hype with the LS600hL, the world-beater that was supposed to show up the 12-cylinder Germans. Instead we got a lightly retouched base-level sedan with questionable technology that seems to do little more than take up half the trunk.

And let's not forget that every new Lexus model of the past few years has been, arguably, inferior to its predecessor. I think it's commonly accepted around here that Lexus screwed up the ES. The jury is still out on the RX, but the GS also failed to make any waves at all unlike the previous generation. The SC continues to waddle forward unchanged despite being inferior at launch. And the new LS is attracting basically the same crowd the old LS did--a nice car that doesn't offer anything compelling to get true top-tier luxury car drivers to switch.

Yup, Lexus is walking the walk all right.

Now, to be fair, I will rebut my own post. The new IS (at least in 350 and -F form) is at least considered competition to the reigning champion 3-series. It took a long time, but Lexus is getting there.

L-Tuned (as much as I like my car) was a failure, but apparently Lexus learned and now the -F series is going to be more of a mod than L-Tuned ever was. Time will tell if they expand that line to the rest of the sedans, though.

The new LS is a great car, but it has to be disappointing to those who thought it would finally vault Lexus into the luxury stratosphere.

And Acura has certainly been guilty of fomenting lots of rumors, sometimes with official press releases and executive interviews, that don't ever seem to go anywhere. But to constantly dog them as the brand that doesn't deliver is beyond unfair--their product line-up is solid as it currently stands.

Alright the IS 250 X is just the IS250 with the X-package wheels.....hmm

Nice spin, Mr. Unsubstantiated Claim. :rolleyes:

I'm glad Lexus came through with all their promises regarding the first-gen IS as their 3-series beater. A lackluster sedan, and when mid-cycle refresh time came, despite all the rumors of a coupe and a convertible, we got a station wagon.

I'm glad Lexus came through with all their promises regarding L-Tuned being the answer to //M and AMG. A few model years of bolt-ons on two models that was hardly marketed... heck, even most Lexus salespeople still don't know what it is/was.

I'm glad Lexus lived up to their hype with the LS600hL, the world-beater that was supposed to show up the 12-cylinder Germans. Instead we got a lightly retouched base-level sedan with questionable technology that seems to do little more than take up half the trunk.

And let's not forget that every new Lexus model of the past few years has been, arguably, inferior to its predecessor. I think it's commonly accepted around here that Lexus screwed up the ES. The jury is still out on the RX, but the GS also failed to make any waves at all unlike the previous generation. The SC continues to waddle forward unchanged despite being inferior at launch. And the new LS is attracting basically the same crowd the old LS did--a nice car that doesn't offer anything compelling to get true top-tier luxury car drivers to switch.

Yup, Lexus is walking the walk all right.

There are wild rumours and then there are claims made by brands themselves.

Lexus AFAIK never made any claims that a coupe/convertible was going to come for the 1st gen IS. Wild rumours exist all the time. There have been rumours of a new NSX and new Supra since the late 1990s. Wild rumours are just that; they're not even substantive rumours which have any factual basis. Lexus HAS hinted at coupe/convertible variants for the 2nd gen IS, and we know for sure that the production versions are coming.

Lexus also never claimed IIRC that the 1st gen IS was a "3 Series beater". Lexus said it would be competition for the 3 Series, which it was.

L-Tuned was supposed to be the answer for M and AMG? Please show me where Lexus specifically said that. Not people on the internet, not wild rumours from car magazines, but Lexus themselves.

As for calling the LS600h "a lightly retouched base level sedan" ... are you for real :rolleyes:? How exactly is it lightly retouched, and how is it base level? That's an awfully ignorant statement to make, considering the LS is the world's first V8 hybrid, and also happens to have lots of other world firsts. The LS hybrid DOES show up the German V12 competition in fuel economy and emissions, as well as refinement. Why else would the conquest rates for the LS hybrid be so high, with people trading in Bentley and Benz vehicles for an LS hybrid.

I will highly disagree that every Lexus has been inferior. Apart from driving dynamics, modding and maybe styling, what was so "great" about the 1st-gen IS? The cheap interior? The stiff ride? The lack of features? The 2nd-gen IS is hands down better than the 1st-gen in most characteristics, except for mod potential. Styling most will agree has improved, the interior is definitely a big step up, luxury, features, and refinement are up as well. Fuel economy is way up (IS250) as is performance (IS350, IS-F).

Lexus screwed up the ES, how? Commonly accepted? I think not. There are a handful of people on CL that continually bash the ES as a bad car due to having bad personal experiences with the ES. Fact is, most owners (on CL) and in the real world love the ES.

Jury is still out on the RX? The jury has spoken, and the RX remains the sales leader in the segment. People love the RX, and the competition continues to scramble to try and compete with the RX.

As for your LS comment, let me restate once again the LS hybrid is achieving high conquest rates from a variety of top-tier luxury brands. The LS hybrid is the ONLY luxury hybrid sedan on the market today. It's unique, exclusive, and it makes a statement. That is a VERY compelling reason for buyers from other luxury brands to switch.

The only comment you made that's anywhere close to accurate is with regards to the 3GS. All your other comments have been absolutely off the mark, especially about the LS.

Now, to be fair, I will rebut my own post. The new IS (at least in 350 and -F form) is at least considered competition to the reigning champion 3-series. It took a long time, but Lexus is getting there.

L-Tuned (as much as I like my car) was a failure, but apparently Lexus learned and now the -F series is going to be more of a mod than L-Tuned ever was. Time will tell if they expand that line to the rest of the sedans, though.

The new LS is a great car, but it has to be disappointing to those who thought it would finally vault Lexus into the luxury stratosphere.

And Acura has certainly been guilty of fomenting lots of rumors, sometimes with official press releases and executive interviews, that don't ever seem to go anywhere. But to constantly dog them as the brand that doesn't deliver is beyond unfair--their product line-up is solid as it currently stands.

Finally vault into the luxury stratosphere? Lexus is firmly competing in the luxury segment. It's silly to think that it's not.

Acura may have a solid lineup in your opinion, but it is not fact. Not only will many Honda and Acura fans disagree with you, but the sales results speak for themselves. Acura sales are dropping like a brick. Yes, the market right now is tough for everyone, but Acura sales are dropping at a faster rate than any other luxury brand. The market has spoken, and Acura's lineup is definitely NOT solid. Considering that Acura's sales volume is fairly low to begin with, seeing sales drop this much is very worrying.

What you've ultimately shown with your points is that Lexus learns from it's mistakes and continually improves.

The 1st-gen IS was criticized for lacking a lot of things, so Lexus learned and listened and we have a much-improved 2nd-gen IS.

What's really unfair is the attitude that Honda continues to use towards to market as well as towards Honda/Acura fans and owners. It's either Honda's way, or the highway. Acura owners for YEARS and YEARS have asked for RWD and V8 engines, and Honda has refused. There is the famous story of McLaren begging Honda to build them a V8 for their F1 supercar back in the late 80s, and Honda refused.

Acura fans and Acura owners asked for a more powerful base TSX, and we get a heavier car with the same power. RL owners and RL fans for ages have wanted RWD and V8s, and still have never got them.

The criticism against Honda and Acura isn't just for all the big talk they like to do without delivering on their word; it's also about the fact that Honda refuses to learn from their mistakes and refuses to listen to the market and to it's customers/owners.

Nice spin, Mr. Unsubstantiated Claim. :rolleyes:

I'm glad Lexus came through with all their promises regarding the first-gen IS as their 3-series beater. A lackluster sedan, and when mid-cycle refresh time came, despite all the rumors of a coupe and a convertible, we got a station wagon.

Lets see here. You have the gall to make a jab at Lexus for their I-6/RWD IS, which did beat the 3 in R&T and was highly regarded by the auto press. It just didn't sell well in America. In contrast and to my point, Honda sheep get a Euro Accord, which is an I-4 and FWD, , sell it as a TSX and try to call that a car in the same class?:sad::thumbdn::p
I'm glad Lexus came through with all their promises regarding L-Tuned being the answer to //M and AMG. A few model years of bolt-ons on two models that was hardly marketed... heck, even most Lexus salespeople still don't know what it is/was.

What are you talking about? Lexus NEVER said L-tuned was M/AMG competition. It is on par with Acura's A-spec parts. No one is denying L-tuned failed. Unlike the Honda faithful, which will continue to argue FWD is just as good as RWD and "who needs real wood", yadda yadda yadda, I can admit when Lexus has missed the ball or simply failed. L-tuned failed, it is discontinued.

I'm glad Lexus lived up to their hype with the LS600hL, the world-beater that was supposed to show up the 12-cylinder Germans. Instead we got a lightly retouched base-level sedan with questionable technology that seems to do little more than take up half the trunk.

That is a ridiculous statement. It is the most technologically advanced car EVER CREATED, IN THE WORLD. At this point, I expected better from you. There is NO WAY you can make fun of the LS 600h L for being a touched up LS 460 when Lexus doesn't even OFFER A V-6 IN THE LS LIKE THE S-CLASS, 7 SERIES or A8. SO which one is touched up now? Top Gear loved the LS 600h L, one of the hardest publications to please. In contrast, Acura is so piss poor, they can't even sell a fake flagship mid-size RL, let alone even compete in this class. They can't even make a mid-size fake flaghip NOT based on an Accord

And let's not forget that every new Lexus model of the past few years has been, arguably, inferior to its predecessor. I think it's commonly accepted around here that Lexus screwed up the ES. The jury is still out on the RX, but the GS also failed to make any waves at all unlike the previous generation. The SC continues to waddle forward unchanged despite being inferior at launch. And the new LS is attracting basically the same crowd the old LS did--a nice car that doesn't offer anything compelling to get true top-tier luxury car drivers to switch.



That is your opinion. If you feel that way about Lexus, yet support and buy Acura's, well, that paragraph is laughable. BTW, the SC 430 sold 6k cars BEFORE it was even at dealers, and sold out its entire first year production limited run of 12,000 cars. Please, just stop.

Yup, Lexus is walking the walk all right.

Lexus is Tier 1, Lexus is world reknown, Lexus will sell 1 million vehicles very soon. ARe they perfect? NO THEY ARE NOT. I am not acting like they are. The ES has some tranny issues. There seems to have been a dip in quality in the GS that has been addressed. The SC is long in the tooth. Some people hate their image. Their hybrids may not get the gas mileage some people want as they are focused on performance. Some Lexus dealers so suck.

In contrast, Acura is sadly becoming a joke. Period. They have ruined everything except the TL and I PRAY that doesn't get hit with their ugly stick. PLEASE leave the TL alone!!!

It's funny how opinions that support Lexus on this board are seen as "fact", while those that question the brand are bashed as "unsubtantiated".

I will backpedal a bit and say that I was exaggerating in my previous post to make a point. The definition of Tier 1 is in the eye of the beholder, but for me Lexus is still Tier 1.5. I think that brand awareness and prestige studies would show this as well, particularly among the well-heeled consumer. Lexus builds great cars that are seen as a tremendous value, but when you want to impress the valet you drive a Benz or a Bimmer. That's just the way it is, and NO Lexus has changed that yet.

And yes, I'm including the hybrid LS in that statement. How many do you even see on the road? I thought I'd see a lot more when I moved back to L.A. and I've yet to see one, yet 760's, S600's, and S55's are everywhere. One could play the "exclusivity" card, but then I could say I guess that's what Acura is going for with their decreased sales, right? ;)

The LS600hL is NOT seen as top-tier luxury competition, and I've love to see conquest statistics that show anyone is actually trading in Bentleys and Rolls-Royces for them. The differences between the LS600 and LS460 are so minor that even many, MANY people at this board questioned what Lexus was thinking. The hybrid engine produces lower emissions, but performance and fuel economy are roughly equivalent to the 460. Then you add a leather dash and some LED headlights and call it competition against the German V12 flagships?

Given the choice I'd clearly take an LS over a 7 or S, even in top-line trim. But then again I'm a Lexus enthusiast and Japanese car fan in general. They've already got me as a customer (although they did screw up badly enough with the sales process to get me to cancel my order for a hybrid LS), but I really don't think anyone who is a BMW or MB enthusiast is going to be swayed to Lexus by what Lexus is currently offering.

In fact, I could simply call Lexus a more upmarket Acura. Great value, great quality, great service... but not dominant in any way that makes the marketplace stand up and take notice.

And yes, I'm including the hybrid LS in that statement. How many do you even see on the road? I thought I'd see a lot more when I moved back to L.A. and I've yet to see one, yet 760's, S600's, and S55's are everywhere. One could play the "exclusivity" card, but then I could say I guess that's what Acura is going for with their decreased sales, right? ;)


Doesn't the LS600hL have a production cap? I thought they were purposefully limiting the production of the LS600hL to keep it exclusive?

I do agree with some of your statements. Lexus is definitely a competitor to BMW and MB but they don't have the amount of model variations that they do.
Take the IS for example:
IS250
IS250AWD
IS350
vs.
328
328x
328 2 door
328x 2 door
335
335x
335 2 door
335x 2 door
328 convertible
335 convertible
328 wagon
328x wagon

No coupe/convertible/wagon variants at all yet. Ok some would say that a wagon variant isn't necessary in this market. That's just the IS vs 3.

If Lexus is to reach or surpass BMW and MB they need to offer more options and more model choices. Just don't introduce crap to compete against the R class or X6. I think Lexus is smart enough to realize the market there is barely existent.

It's funny how opinions that support Lexus on this board are seen as "fact", while those that question the brand are bashed as "unsubtantiated".

I will backpedal a bit and say that I was exaggerating in my previous post to make a point. The definition of Tier 1 is in the eye of the beholder, but for me Lexus is still Tier 1.5. I think that brand awareness and prestige studies would show this as well, particularly among the well-heeled consumer. Lexus builds great cars that are seen as a tremendous value, but when you want to impress the valet you drive a Benz or a Bimmer. That's just the way it is, and NO Lexus has changed that yet.

And yes, I'm including the hybrid LS in that statement. How many do you even see on the road? I thought I'd see a lot more when I moved back to L.A. and I've yet to see one, yet 760's, S600's, and S55's are everywhere. One could play the "exclusivity" card, but then I could say I guess that's what Acura is going for with their decreased sales, right? ;)

The LS600hL is NOT seen as top-tier luxury competition, and I've love to see conquest statistics that show anyone is actually trading in Bentleys and Rolls-Royces for them. The differences between the LS600 and LS460 are so minor that even many, MANY people at this board questioned what Lexus was thinking. The hybrid engine produces lower emissions, but performance and fuel economy are roughly equivalent to the 460. Then you add a leather dash and some LED headlights and call it competition against the German V12 flagships?

Given the choice I'd clearly take an LS over a 7 or S, even in top-line trim. But then again I'm a Lexus enthusiast and Japanese car fan in general. They've already got me as a customer (although they did screw up badly enough with the sales process to get me to cancel my order for a hybrid LS), but I really don't think anyone who is a BMW or MB enthusiast is going to be swayed to Lexus by what Lexus is currently offering.

In fact, I could simply call Lexus a more upmarket Acura. Great value, great quality, great service... but not dominant in any way that makes the marketplace stand up and take notice.

You have so far failed to respond or counter my points.

I ask you again to show PROOF that Lexus specifically stated that L-Tuned was competition for M/AMG. Where is your proof that Lexus called the 1st gen IS a "3 Series beater"? With your points, all you've posted ARE unsubstantiated claims for the most part, not facts.

You "think" brand awarenes and prestige studies show this, or do you know for sure that is the case?

So your basis for success with the hybrid LS is how many times you've seen it on the road? You're kidding right? By the way, I live in Canada and I've already seen two LS hybrids on the road. If you haven't seen any LS hybrids in LA of all places, you must not have been paying attention or maybe you don't commute all that much. Obviously there would will be more 760s and S600s on the road, because those cars have been out on the market for *years*, being out on the market for much longer than the LS hybrid has been.

So earlier you claimed Acura had a solid lineup, and now you're implying there is nothing wrong with their decreased sales? So which one is it? You just contradicted yourself. Maybe you should backpedal on your comments some more.

Considering that the LS Hybrid does not even compete with Bentleys and RRs, seeing the LS hybrid achieve any conquests from those brands is impressive. The conquest statistics of the LS hybrid are well documented. You can easily look around on Car Chat or on the LS forums to see the conquest statistics. As for fuel economy, does the LS460 have AWD? No it doesn't. You should really stop and think for a moment about that. The LS hybrid has AWD and a hybrid system, making it MUCH heavier than the LS460, and yet it STILL manages better overall fuel economy, reduced emissions, and better performance. Yes, better performance because an LS hybrid is faster than a 460 at passing speeds (45 - 65 mph), while equaling the LS460 in other performance measures. It's funny that you criticize the LS hybrid for only having "minor" differences compared to an LS460, yet I don't see you criticizing the German V12 sedans. How are they NOT minor? Apart from the V12 engine, what major or unique features do the V12 sedans have compared to V8 variants of the same vehicles? I will also add that the refinement of the LS hybrid is a step above a regular LS460.

By "many" people do you mean a handful of critics? Just like you said earlier that it was "commonly accepted" Lexus had screwed up the ES?

The IS-F has already gotten some BMW and Benz enthusiasts interested in Lexus.

Iceman, you do realize that the latest gen IS and LS models have both been very successful, right?

In fact, I could simply call Lexus a more upmarket Acura. Great value, great quality, great service... but not dominant in any way that makes the marketplace stand up and take notice.


Over the years, we have debated quite a few times but with that last comment, I am thinking you are on vacation sipping some Grey Goose b/c that is absurd. :D

If you don't think Lexus is dominant, so dominant it made the ENTIRE AUTO INDUSTRY change, all hope is lost. How the hell is being #1 in sales for 8 years in America not dominant? You would think Acura would be #1 in sales since they are by far the cheapest and most accessible brand.

It really doesn't make sense to turn this into a Lexus vs Acura match b/c that is comparing the the 1990s Chicago Bulls to the L.A Clippers of any year.

We all know Acura is NOT a bad brand, it just isn't a great one and they hasn't had a break through product since the NSX. The bottom line is for over 10 years we are fed NSX, V-8, Tier 1, etc etc rumors and what they have DONE has not aligned with what they say.

In Contrast Lexus does not say much, when they do, they historically walk the walk, as their reputation is on the line.

I know someone who traded in a Bentley Arnage for an LS460L. So there are people out there with big bucks who buy Lexus products just not as many as Benz and BMW but Lexus is slowing increasing sales in the prestige class. Rmember they have only been on the market since 1990.

Well, obviously I must bow to the obvious knowledge and dominance of the unsubstantiated claims of the Lexus faithful. I suppose I am supposed to dig around and provide research that backs my opinions while those of others can be "easily found around car chat". How silly of me for thinking for myself! I now realize that in order to fit in at Club Lexus I must become a mindless drone, reciting the mantra of how dominant and perfect Lexus is.

And my most serious crime is, apparently, daring to own an Acura or to consider them a car brand any more prestigious and desirable than a Geo. How could a brand that doesn't offer a V8 or RWD cars be anything more than a half-baked joke?!

And yes, Lexus is #1 in U.S. sales so clearly they are dominant. By far the most important statistic in rating the quality and brand perception of any product is sales. That's why Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and all the others who sell less than Lexus are inferior. This is simple math--why couldn't I see it?!

And the final mistake I've made is in believing any magazine or online reviews that make the same points I do. We're all sheep (except those who blindly worship at the altar of Lexus) who fall into the same traps over and over. Facts be damned--they are apparently cooked anyway, except of course those that support the position that Lexus cars are the most amazingly perfect creations ever touched by the hands of man.

Thank you, particularly 1SickLex and TRDfantasy, for showing me the errors of my ways.

Well, obviously I must bow to the obvious knowledge and dominance of the unsubstantiated claims of the Lexus faithful. I suppose I am supposed to dig around and provide research that backs my opinions while those of others can be "easily found around car chat". How silly of me for thinking for myself! I now realize that in order to fit in at Club Lexus I must become a mindless drone, reciting the mantra of how dominant and perfect Lexus is.

And my most serious crime is, apparently, daring to own an Acura or to consider them a car brand any more prestigious and desirable than a Geo. How could a brand that doesn't offer a V8 or RWD cars be anything more than a half-baked joke?!

And yes, Lexus is #1 in U.S. sales so clearly they are dominant. By far the most important statistic in rating the quality and brand perception of any product is sales. That's why Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and all the others who sell less than Lexus are inferior. This is simple math--why couldn't I see it?!

And the final mistake I've made is in believing any magazine or online reviews that make the same points I do. We're all sheep (except those who blindly worship at the altar of Lexus) who fall into the same traps over and over. Facts be damned--they are apparently cooked anyway, except of course those that support the position that Lexus cars are the most amazingly perfect creations ever touched by the hands of man.

Thank you, particularly 1SickLex and TRDfantasy, for showing me the errors of my ways.

Since I have to spell it out for you, let me RE-POST how I said Lexus IS NOT perfect.

What are you talking about? Lexus NEVER said L-tuned was M/AMG competition. It is on par with Acura's A-spec parts. No one is denying L-tuned failed. Unlike the Honda faithful, which will continue to argue FWD is just as good as RWD and "who needs real wood", yadda yadda yadda, I can admit when Lexus has missed the ball or simply failed. L-tuned failed, it is discontinued.

Lexus is Tier 1, Lexus is world reknown, Lexus will sell 1 million vehicles very soon. ARe they perfect? NO THEY ARE NOT. I am not acting like they are. The ES has some tranny issues. There seems to have been a dip in quality in the GS that has been addressed. The SC is long in the tooth. Some people hate their image. Their hybrids may not get the gas mileage some people want as they are focused on performance. Some Lexus dealers so suck.


So how can you come to the conclusion, I don't think Lexus does wrong?:uh::uh::uh: Clearly you haven't read most of my posts here ONLY the ones that you find offensive b/c you do blindly follow Acura.

And yes, Lexus is #1 in U.S. sales so clearly they are dominant. By far the most important statistic in rating the quality and brand perception of any product is sales. That's why Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and all the others who sell less than Lexus are inferior. This is simple math--why couldn't I see it?!



We have posted IN CAR CHAT, the perception is Lexus is in the top 3 brands for luxury and prestige, currently only behind Porsche. So no, you don't see it, but the research does.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/04/13/003900.html

http://www.pcars.us/post-5893.html&highlight=

Luxury Institute Survey: Wealthy Consumers Rate Porsche, Mercedes and Lexus Most Prestigious Luxury Auto Brands of 2007

NEW YORK, NY -- (MARKET WIRE) -- April 05, 2007 -- For the second straight year, Porsche earned the top score as the most prestigious luxury automobile brand in the 2007 Luxury Brand Status Index (LBSI) survey from the independent New York-based Luxury Institute. Mercedes and Lexus tied for second place; BMW was rated third.

The problem is Lexus wins awards or rates first or in the top 3 in nearly everything everytime, they don't TALK IT, THEY WALK IT. You like Acura and Acura rarely wins anything or is recognized for anything outside "best value" which is a luxury oxymoron. We would LOVE to post positive Acura news where they are the best at something but it just doesn't happen or once every 5 years. Instead, what Acura feeds us is crap like this.
http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/la-wednesday-late-316.jpg

And crap like this dated September 2007:
http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/09/hondas-john-men.html

Then we get a pretty GHEY 201 hp, I-4, Euro Accord with Acura badges still.

You might feel there are Lexus sheep b/c we have something to
cheer about EVERY month.


http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/archives/2007/10/lexus_most_admired_highen.htm

http://www.lexus.com/about/awards/index.html

Acura here celebrates its 20th anniversary, saying 18 years ago it was the best selling import luxury brand. Nothing to talk about currently.

http://www.acura.com/index.aspx?initPath=TSX_Learn_AwardsAccolades_Awar ds

Oh dear, Lexus won ANOTHER award/recognition today... :D

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347611&highlight=bentley

Prince of Monaco takes delivery of LS 600h
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308189&highlight=bentley

Post about a guy trading in a Bentley in for a LS (don't read too much, it then goes into the RL being a failure)
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257802&highlight=bentley

So what do we have in conclusion, just some facts and YES we celebrate them.
Lexus is regarded Tier 1, they sell the best in America, they are the most reliable brand, they have the best dealers.

I am not sure why you are getting so defensive over the INITIAL comment "Lexus walks the walk, Acura just talks the talk" because IT IS CLEAR that is the case.

No where, NO WHERE, did I say Lexus is perfect and I did NOT say Acura is a poor brand. I said they make good cars.

This is a Lexus forum, we will celebrate Lexus SUCCESS is which an everyday thing, so you will see TONS of posts and threads about this success, whereas Acura doesn't have much anything to boast in comparison, outside useless press releases about cars that NEVER make it to the market.

In browsing the Acura forum, its SAD b/c most have opened up their eyes (and I can say told you so) as they HATE the direction the brand is going with value, ugly and no real difference from Hondas. They rarely is a thread about Acura winning ANYTHING, not luxury, not quality, not performance, not fuel economy and hell with Infiniti around and picking things up, not even VALUE anymore.

Funny but Acura has proved me right about everything I have said since 2001 on here.

Well, obviously I must bow to the obvious knowledge and dominance of the unsubstantiated claims of the Lexus faithful. I suppose I am supposed to dig around and provide research that backs my opinions while those of others can be "easily found around car chat". How silly of me for thinking for myself! I now realize that in order to fit in at Club Lexus I must become a mindless drone, reciting the mantra of how dominant and perfect Lexus is.

And my most serious crime is, apparently, daring to own an Acura or to consider them a car brand any more prestigious and desirable than a Geo. How could a brand that doesn't offer a V8 or RWD cars be anything more than a half-baked joke?!

And yes, Lexus is #1 in U.S. sales so clearly they are dominant. By far the most important statistic in rating the quality and brand perception of any product is sales. That's why Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and all the others who sell less than Lexus are inferior. This is simple math--why couldn't I see it?!

And the final mistake I've made is in believing any magazine or online reviews that make the same points I do. We're all sheep (except those who blindly worship at the altar of Lexus) who fall into the same traps over and over. Facts be damned--they are apparently cooked anyway, except of course those that support the position that Lexus cars are the most amazingly perfect creations ever touched by the hands of man.

Thank you, particularly 1SickLex and TRDfantasy, for showing me the errors of my ways.

:rolleyes::thumbdn:.

So you would rather continue with the dry remarks and sarcasm rather than counter points and respond in an intelligent manner? The sarcasm and dry remarks don't help your arguments at all, and they also don't counter any of SICK's arguments or mine.

Since you refuse to do it yourself, I will offer direct proof that counters your comments regarding the LS.

Here is a gentleman who traded in a Maserati for an LS600h:
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342900&highlight=LS600h

King of Norway gets an LS hybrid:
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334210&highlight=LS600h

Demand far outstripping supply for LS hybrid:
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322129&highlight=LS600h

Prince of Monaco gets LS hybrid:
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308189&highlight=LS600h

LS hybrid on the show Entourage:
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290055&highlight=LS600h

Here is an article stating that demand and interest in the UK for the LS hybrid is quite high: http://www.roadsafe.com/magazine/2007winter/manufacturers.htm

But who needs facts when we have your opinion that the LS hybrid offers nothing much compared to the previous-gen LS and it offers nothing enticing for other luxury owners to switch :rolleyes:.

I don't need to post any links regarding L-Tuned or the 1st-gen IS because Lexus NEVER MADE the statements that you're claiming they made. The onus is on you to provide proof that Lexus actually made such sort of statements. I've posted some proof with regards to the conquests that the LS hybrid is achieving, and how it's competiting with true luxury cars.

Can you do the same for your arguments?

Google is your friend, boys. Don't you realize that only posting sources from inside CL you are perpetuating the incestuous narcissism? "We're great--just ask us!"

"Lentz said the first L-Tuned vehicles which were built between 2000 and 2003 were more about cosmetics than performance. Many observers feel this is the reason the program fizzled out so quickly. There's speculation a new round of L-Tuned vehicles would more effectively target AMG and BMW's "M" division by offering tangible performance improvements." http://www.cartype.com/page.cfm?id=1963&alph=ALL&dec=ALL

"Lexus originally introduced the L-Tuned name for their factory tuning arm back in 2000, but sales were dismal, and interest fizzled due to the mostly cosmetic upgrades. This time, Lexus is bringing more firepower to bring the fight to Mercedes’ AMG and BMW’s M division cars." http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/lexus/lexus-may-bring-back-l-tuned-brand/

"According to the Lexus marketing people, the "L-Tuned" badge could return for yet more outings on a wider range of Lexus models if the "L-Tuned" GS 300 model is well received. Could this be the start of Lexus' answer to Mercedes' performance partner AMG and BMW's legendary M-series?" http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/8_10_toy1.htm

^^^^
Google is clearly NOT your friend. Again, Lexus NEVER stated THEMSELVES, L-tuned is a AMG/M fighter. Writers and car reviwers SPECULATED it was or might have been.

You are posting the obvious, everyone admits L-tuned was a failure. L-tuned has now evolved into "F-Sport" and we now have a true "F" division.

I doubt anyone here or anywhere outside of Lexus has the assortment of L-tuned articles from the press I have collected and NEVER was it stated L-tuned was made to compete with M/AMG. Not in one article!!!

Here is the actual press release from Lexus in 2000.


Original L-tuned Press and Price Release USA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Press Releases
August 9, 2000
Lexus L-Tuned Sport Package Will Add More Performance and Style to GS Series

August 9, 2000, Torrance, Calif. - To enhance the driving pleasure of the GS 300 and GS 400, Lexus and Toyota Racing Development (trD) have developed an aftermarket sport package called L-Tuned, which will be available through Lexus dealers August 1, 2000.

"The GS 300 and GS 400 are great cars to drive, but some drivers want even more performance and sporty style from their vehicles," said Denny Clements, Lexus group vice president and general manager. "By ordering a manufacturer-approved aftermarket package through Lexus dealers, our customers know they're getting high-quality parts, reliable installation and a warranty."

For the GS 300/400 series, L-Tuned will offer two distinct packages to accommodate a broad range of driving techniques, road conditions and vehicle styling.

L-Tuned's Series 1 Package is comprised of a body kit, one of three wheel/tire combinations and special L-Tuned badging. The body kit, made of durable polyurethane, includes side skirts and a unique body-color grille surrounded with a laser-cut mesh insert.

The Series 2 Package includes the Series 1 components plus performance shocks and springs, a re-calibrated steering ECU and stainless steel mufflers with polished tips for a sportier look.

With each package, GS 300/400 owners will have the choice of three different wheel and Z-rated tire combinations:

* 17" x 8" OZ Superturismo Alloy Wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport Tires (235/45Z)
* 17" x 8" OZ Superturismo Alloy Wheels with Michelin XGTZ4 All-Weather Tires (235/45Z)
* 18" x 8" (front), 18" x 9.5" (rear) OZ Alloy Wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport Tires (235/40Z, front and 265/35Z, rear)

L-Tuned packages are available in Crystal White, Black Onyx and Millennium Silver Metallic with other factory colors offered via special order only. Although Series 1 and 2 Packages are engineered to work together for maximum performance, the individual components also are available separately, including all wheel/tire combinations. When installed by an authorized Lexus dealer, L-Tuned parts carry a strong warranty that complements the vehicle's Lexus warranty.

Lexus L-Tuned Price Summary*

Packages
Stage 1 (17" all-weather tires) $3,089
Stage 1 (17" dry tires) $3,315
Stage 1 (18" dry tires) $3,685
Stage 2 (17" all-weather tires) $4,452
Stage 2 (17" dry tires) $4,670
Stage 2 (18" dry tires) $5,047
Individual Components
Wheel/Tire Set, 17" all-weather $1,717
Wheel/Tire Set, 17" dry tires $1,950
Wheel/Tire Set, 18" dry tires $2,336
Aero kit $1,389
Badging kit $80
Front and rear shock set $275
Lowering spring set $350
GS 400 sport muffler set $676
GS 300 sport muffler set $676
Steering electronic control unit $148
*Prices subject to change and do not include dealer installation 8/1/00http://www.************/images_products/22320Lexus.jpg

same here, i have never ever read official words from lexus saying the l-tuned was ever aiming at amg or m. it's just a sporty lineup. just like no one would ever consider (and acura never says) the type s lines are against amg and m?

Lexus should concentrate on making the GS460 better before making a GS-F.

Also, when is the IS convertible/coupe slated for US release?

Google is your friend, boys. Don't you realize that only posting sources from inside CL you are perpetuating the incestuous narcissism? "We're great--just ask us!"

"Lentz said the first L-Tuned vehicles which were built between 2000 and 2003 were more about cosmetics than performance. Many observers feel this is the reason the program fizzled out so quickly. There's speculation a new round of L-Tuned vehicles would more effectively target AMG and BMW's "M" division by offering tangible performance improvements." http://www.cartype.com/page.cfm?id=1963&alph=ALL&dec=ALL

"Lexus originally introduced the L-Tuned name for their factory tuning arm back in 2000, but sales were dismal, and interest fizzled due to the mostly cosmetic upgrades. This time, Lexus is bringing more firepower to bring the fight to Mercedes’ AMG and BMW’s M division cars." http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/lexus/lexus-may-bring-back-l-tuned-brand/

"According to the Lexus marketing people, the "L-Tuned" badge could return for yet more outings on a wider range of Lexus models if the "L-Tuned" GS 300 model is well received. Could this be the start of Lexus' answer to Mercedes' performance partner AMG and BMW's legendary M-series?" http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/8_10_toy1.htm

You just continue to lose credibility in your arguments and make yourself look silly :thumbdn:.

Look at your own links that you posted VERY CAREFULLY. Does it state ANYWHERE that Lexus itself intended L-Tuned to compete with AMG or M cars? No it DOES NOT.

All your links state is SPECULATION by various internet sources that the L-Tuned program competes with the M or AMG cars and that the L-Tuned program may return.

That speculation was false, as L-Tuned was cancelled and Toyota instead has now come out with TRUE M and AMG competition with the F program.

It seems clear to me that you cannot support your own claims and opinions by solid facts or evidence, nor can you concretely counter the points SICK or I posted by any sort of solid proof.

If you have something personal against Lexus, or you hate Lexus to each their own. You shouldn't though be stating your opinion as fact.

If you have something personal against Lexus, or you hate Lexus to each their own. You shouldn't though be stating your opinion as fact.

Don't think Iceman has any personal vendetta against Lexus. I remember his thread from years ago when he purchased his Series 2 L-Tuned GS...man, time flies.

So what if Iceman isn't completely enamored with Lexus and finds faults with the company? CL would be a boring place if every post sang the praises of Lexus.

And you guys are all wrong about L-Tuned being a failure. The L-Tuned exhaust, suspension, body kit and badges turned my stock GS 300 into a high performance machine...well, maybe not :D

Don't think Iceman has any personal vendetta against Lexus. I remember his thread from years ago when he purchased his Series 2 L-Tuned GS...man, time flies.

So what if Iceman isn't completely enamored with Lexus and finds faults with the company? CL would be a boring place if every post sang the praises of Lexus.

And you guys are all wrong about L-Tuned being a failure. The L-Tuned exhaust, suspension, body kit and badges turned my stock GS 300 into a high performance machine...well, maybe not :D

No he doesn't, ICEMAN is a good guy, for one respect him and his posts. Its amazing we have debated like this for years. PM me your address so I can send some wine!:)

He loves Acura and his BMW experience was not pleasant. Nothing wrong with that and being passionate about your brands. I can go overboard sometimes and come across as "nutty":D:D but over the years I have worked on that.

L-tuned just wasn't well thought out, marketed or recieved. I hope they plan to do better with "F-Sport". :thumbup:

Don't think Iceman has any personal vendetta against Lexus. I remember his thread from years ago when he purchased his Series 2 L-Tuned GS...man, time flies.

So what if Iceman isn't completely enamored with Lexus and finds faults with the company? CL would be a boring place if every post sang the praises of Lexus.

And you guys are all wrong about L-Tuned being a failure. The L-Tuned exhaust, suspension, body kit and badges turned my stock GS 300 into a high performance machine...well, maybe not :D

Fair enough, it just comes across that way from his posts. My earlier point still stands: he should not state his opinions as fact, especially if his opinions have no factual basis or support.