I haven't driven the RS4, but my findings with the C63, IS-F, and M3 are pretty close to theirs, though I didn't drive them to quite the limits they did. The C63 clearly had the most impressive engine, the BMW the best chassis, and the IS-F the best overall build quality.
SilverBull
04-29-08, 03:01 PM
I still haven't driven an RS4 but the S4 with the Quattro is fun as hell. Handling on that car is top notch. The MB is beast in a straight line but they STILL need 3 pedals to make work better.
mmarshall
04-29-08, 03:39 PM
The MB is beast in a straight line but they STILL need 3 pedals to make work better.
The E63 has so much torque that adding a third pedal wouldn't make much difference.
adam8065
04-29-08, 03:43 PM
The E63 has so much torque that adding a third pedal wouldn't make much difference.
MMarshall..i think you keep confusing the E63 with the C63;) Two different monsters my friend!
INHOCJP
04-29-08, 03:44 PM
What a crock of ****.
Why is that?
D-MAN63
04-29-08, 06:40 PM
What a crock of ****.
I 2nd that..:thumbup::thumbup:
mmarshall
04-29-08, 08:01 PM
MMarshall..i think you keep confusing the E63 with the C63;) Two different monsters my friend!
Sorry....you're correct. My mistake.
(And, yes, I should know the difference.....I just drove an E63)
kyang91
04-29-08, 09:07 PM
wow.....now this review make me want to get a M3 for sure now.
1SICKLEX
04-29-08, 09:13 PM
Only 13 points separating the top from the bottom. That is a subjective win, not a beating. I can live with that.
Again, for a first effort from Lexus, this is amazing. The IS-F has yet to embarrass itself in any comparo. The reviewers love it, they just prefer the Germans.
Top Gear reviewed all 4 and COULD NOT PICK A WINNER. The guy said at the end "the IS-F draws me".
EVO just gave the IS-F 5 stars, unheard of for a Lexus.
MR_F1
04-29-08, 09:59 PM
Why is that?
Because of the objective results they skewed the subjective ones. I call BS, 13 points from top to bottom or not.
mmarshall
04-30-08, 06:48 AM
Only 13 points separating the top from the bottom. That is a subjective win, not a beating. I can live with that.
Again, for a first effort from Lexus, this is amazing. The IS-F has yet to embarrass itself in any comparo. The reviewers love it, they just prefer the Germans.
Top Gear reviewed all 4 and COULD NOT PICK A WINNER. The guy said at the end "the IS-F draws me".
EVO just gave the IS-F 5 stars, unheard of for a Lexus.
The IS-F is a great car, as long as the roads are glass-smooth, and is the first Lexus I've seen that approxomates the BMW steering feel. But remember, most of the auto mags do their comparisons on a track whose surface is well-maintained. Even R&T remarked in the article, though, like I did in my review, on how stiff the IS-F underpinnings were when they took it out on normal, not-so-smooth roads. The one I drove hopped up and down over bumps like a porpoise.
Threxx
04-30-08, 07:31 AM
Why is that?
Because Lexus is in last place.;)
MR_F1
04-30-08, 09:45 AM
The IS-F is a great car, as long as the roads are glass-smooth, and is the first Lexus I've seen that approxomates the BMW steering feel. But remember, most of the auto mags do their comparisons on a track whose surface is well-maintained. Even R&T remarked in the article, though, like I did in my review, on how stiff the IS-F underpinnings were when they took it out on normal, not-so-smooth roads. The one I drove hopped up and down over bumps like a porpoise.
See now when Magazines and reviewers complain about it being too stiff, likely the next version will be softer. Not cool. Hope they know better.
Mr Johnson
04-30-08, 09:57 AM
See now when Magazines and reviewers complain about it being too stiff, likely the next version will be softer. Not cool. Hope they know better.
Do you own one? Have you even driven one?
What mmarshall says is correct. The IS-F will porpoise over rough roads, more so than the competition. What we want in the next version is what BMW did with the 335 compared to the previous M3. They managed to provide a better ride with better handling/performance.
DustinV
04-30-08, 10:19 AM
I still haven't driven an RS4 but the S4 with the Quattro is fun as hell. Handling on that car is top notch. The MB is beast in a straight line but they STILL need 3 pedals to make work better.
Cars with such monstrous torque ratings drive rather poorly with a third pedal for the sole reason that most people wouldn't be able to launch the car. You'd have to be "pretty damn good" or a professional to be able to pull that off.
AMG is doing the right thing by keeping their cars automatic. I recall reading that the current SLK55 AMG was supposed to have a 6-speed manual from ZF but AMG dumped the idea after the transmission wouldn't fit into the transmission tunnel of the SLK.
Anyway, I'd be happy with any car here. I'd probably go with the Audi RS4 because of the AWD advantage in wet weather. I'd be equally happy with any car here. :thumbup:
SoCalSC4
04-30-08, 10:46 AM
I drove the C63 last week. The thing is an absolute rocket in a straight line. In fact, it has so much power that it makes it feel slow in corners... the traction control keeps VERY busy coming out of turns (I did not defeat the TCS since this car was owned by MB USA). I didn't think the steering was particularly impressive, but the car drives well enough. AMG is using the sledgehammer approach with this car.
I haven't driven the IS-F.
I haven't driven the RS4, but I have ridden in one and even ran one getting on the freeway about two months ago (my friend Craig's car). It's not the straight-line beast I anticipated... it didn't exactly walk-away from my ancient GS400 with simple bolt-on mods. I find the RS4 sort of heavy and ponderous due to the weight of the all-wheel drive. I guess I would use the word "deliberate" to describe this car on the street, but it is a joy on the track.
I haven't driven the new M3, but I'm sure in typical BMW fashion the chassis is sublime. I'm not crazy about high-strung V8s in a street car, but you can't argue with the performance data. I think on the street this car could get smashed by "lesser cars" in a straight line unless you're on the ball and always have the car in the correct gear...
MR_F1
04-30-08, 02:33 PM
Do you own one? Have you even driven one?
What mmarshall says is correct. The IS-F will porpoise over rough roads, more so than the competition. What we want in the next version is what BMW did with the 335 compared to the previous M3. They managed to provide a better ride with better handling/performance.
No I haven't, but maybe you misunderstood me. Stiff wasn't the word I was looking for. Think transition from IS300 - IS350. It lost that 'edge' .... Yes the IS350 is much more 'Lexus', but it could have been so much more.