I am wondering why Asian (Japanese, Korean, etc) cars are sold in packages.

Example if you want power seats you must order the premium packages which dumps in like heated seats, rain sensors, etc. Best example to get the Mark Levinson audio you have to get the Nav and the most expensive package on the RX. But with Mercedes the Harmon Kardon could be your only option you select off a base model.

Or with Toyota Sienna when we wanted AWD and Side Airbags you had to upgrade to XLE and get power dowers, window curtains, leather, sun roof, etc all bundled in a package. To get a Nav we then either had to get rear tv or upgrade to the Limited. (Declined both not worth the price for a nav system)

On the other hand when we bought the Mercedes car you could select items separately. Mainly everything was La Carte, heated seats, separate from power seats. Only some items were bundled like Bi-Xenon headlight made you also get headlight washers, but they were all related items.

Lastly, along time ago when my parents bought their last American car, bundled items were discount bargains like GM “Sound and Summer Package” it gave you a good deal on getting a sunroof and a Bose audio system which were also LA Carte.

Anyone else notice this?

my guess is its more cost efficient and just more efficient overall to build them this way.

my guess is its more cost efficient and just more efficient overall to build them this way.
+1
The way the Germans do it is expensive. Each individual option costs a fortune. Although having the option to purchase options individually is nice. Sometimes the packages just aren't what you want or is excess.

my guess is its more cost efficient and just more efficient overall to build them this way.

It's more efficient for the companies to manufacture and plan AND MUCH MORE PROFITABLE (sticking consumers with options in packages they don't want or care about), but it SUCKS for the consumer.

Lexus lists many options individually, but good luck ever getting them alone without a package. It's basically deceptive advertising - you can't get it, short of ordering a custom one which will take months and months.

Car companys have parts made for them and commit to production volumes way before they use them and the more they buy the cheaper they are per unit ( economy of scale ) option bundles help sell all the parts they have ordered

Acura took it to the extreme - 1 option - NAV or NO NAV.

I kind of like that -- you know exactly what you're getting
(no leatherette http://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/greddy2.gif)

Simple answer:

Toyota Motor Sales (TMS) USA has to pay extra to TMS Japan for more choices.

The more choices TMS USA decides on, the higher prices TMS Japan charges.

Don't forget that North American cars are not chosen by Japan, but by the Headquarters of TMS USA.

It ultimately ends up as a cost-effective measure. Packaging = Simplicity.

I was reading how at Lexus Japan, one selects from the packaging with a factory direct linkup; the customer even presses the final button which sends the order to the factory...

It's more efficient for the companies to manufacture and plan AND MUCH MORE PROFITABLE (sticking consumers with options in packages they don't want or care about), but it SUCKS for the consumer.

I'm not sure I can do anything but disagree with this, given the excessive cost of options on European luxury cars.

FOr cost savings and efficiency as stated. You have your production line and you have maybe say 100 ways to configure them, which lowers error rates as well.

In contrast the Germans are all out options and giving the consumer individuality, which means maybe 500 ways to configure them, which means more expensive to build, longer to build and more errors. BUT they make up for it with the $$$$ asked for these options.

I'm not sure I can do anything but disagree with this, given the excessive cost of options on European luxury cars.

Part of luxury is getting what you want. Those European options may be expensive, but at least you can get them. Lexus still makes and sells cars pretty much like Toyotar, only with marble and chrome all around. :p

I am wondering why Asian (Japanese, Korean, etc) cars are sold in packages.

Example if you want power seats you must order the premium packages which dumps in like heated seats, rain sensors, etc. Best example to get the Mark Levinson audio you have to get the Nav and the most expensive package on the RX. But with Mercedes the Harmon Kardon could be your only option you select off a base model.

Or with Toyota Sienna when we wanted AWD and Side Airbags you had to upgrade to XLE and get power dowers, window curtains, leather, sun roof, etc all bundled in a package. To get a Nav we then either had to get rear tv or upgrade to the Limited. (Declined both not worth the price for a nav system)

On the other hand when we bought the Mercedes car you could select items separately. Mainly everything was La Carte, heated seats, separate from power seats. Only some items were bundled like Bi-Xenon headlight made you also get headlight washers, but they were all related items.

Lastly, along time ago when my parents bought their last American car, bundled items were discount bargains like GM “Sound and Summer Package” it gave you a good deal on getting a sunroof and a Bose audio system which were also LA Carte.

Anyone else notice this?
Would you like Lexus to cost the same as a Mercedes-Benz?

Toyota used to have "Value Packages" which were actually discounted. Now the packages seem like a whole bunch of things at full price or at most 5% off.

Lexus lists many options individually, but good luck ever getting them alone without a package. It's basically deceptive advertising - you can't get it, short of ordering a custom one which will take months and months.

Actually, in my experience, you CANNOT custom order a Lexus. That was the case with my GS six years ago, and the case with the LS600hL I had on deposit last year. You must take or leave what they decide to give you when it comes to colors and option packages, and Lexus has an arbitrary 3-zone geographic separation for the U.S. meaning you can't even get what other zones get. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

As bitkahuna said in his other post, today luxury is almost synonomous with "choice". When paying a premium price, the upscale consumer expects to get what they want. Lexus hasn't figured this out, and when I wrote a letter to that effect after cancelling my $125K order, they sent me back a form letter.

It reminds me of the 80's when the Big Three dominated the U.S. car market and they were NOTORIOUS for these kinds of "bundling" scams. You couldn't get an FM radio without also getting power locks, or you couldn't get the sunroof without getting the leather interior, etc. It was silly, but consumers lived with it because there wasn't much choice. Today, I absolutely guarantee you that Lexus is losing a lot of the buyers they want because of their inflexible, corporate-driven stance on options and choices.

The other extreme is Porsche. I remember back in 2000 before I got my M Roadster I priced out a Boxster. When you added in every option and customization possible, it came out to over $120K!!! Now that's just crazy...

all i can say is the mini cooper is ridiculous with the options

Look at Honda/Acura. The new TSX--it's base, or Tech Pkg, Auto or Manual. That's it. The fewer variations they have to make, the less expensive production costs are.

buying a car and having it in stock would be an absolute nightmare if there wasnt option packages. Theres way too many possible combinations of how a car can be optioned if there wasnt packages

Companies always have their reasons, but I do wonder sometimes.

IF getting the package is cheaper overall, I don't mind. But can't they also hide behind these packages?

I do know that you can't add $18000 worth of options to a $30000 car (BMW) though, with Lexus.

There's definitely a lot of options I don't care about. And I wish I wouldn't have to pay for them. Then, there's others I want they don't even offer--and most manufacturers don't.

Limited LX Colors: The LX offers only like 6 colors. This is a $74000 car. What's up!? Doesn't the LS also have less colors than the IS and ES?

How about different colors?: They should at least offer some color options. I wouldn't mind paying extra for a different color. This is the most visible aspect of the car besides the styling.

I wonder how much it would cost to shut down the plant for an entire day just so they could color one car a different color. Or just how much would it cost if they didn't have to shut down the plant, but had to waste time to throw in a different color?

I'd buy a Honda or Toyota over a Lexus if they offered nice colors. But those two brands / manufacturers tend to use awful paint. Luxury brands tend to have the edge there.

Maybe people could pool together to have the plant make only custom cars for a day. I wonder how that could work? Have 1000 CL members pool in to get full custom?

if you get around to reading how toyotas lean production system works, custom orders are detrimental to how lean production works

as stated before, it's due to cost efficiency. whether manufacturers can make more money or not, that's a mood point, there is no need to bring that up here. bottom line is whether consumers will pay more or less.

historically, japanese and korean cars are associated with "values" and "better bang for the bucks". as much as i think lexus (for example) is a luxury brand already, the mindset of them being better values than their competitors bmw and mb is still there, and very much "in effect". so it comes down to consumers if they want to go with the ego and pay more to customize the exact car they want from bmw or mb, or they pay less overall for a car like lexus but with some extra options that they likely won't touch ever.

sometimes when i look at it it's very funny. some people scream all day about lexus here not allowing customizations, but i wonder, if lexus does allow that but with an overall 10% price increase, how many more people will yell about lexus being even more "overpriced"?

But I won't be really paying 10% more unless I get all the exact same options as before.
With customization, I can delete some options that are forced upon me now, like the completely useless self-park & a number of other minor stuff. I would be able to get the Touring Package with upgraded leather option & 19" rims, together with some rear seat upgrades, but not necessarily the Exec. Package &/or the RSES(don't care for the flip down screen, prefer aftemarket ones on head rests).
I can see myself paying the exact amount as I paid for my Executive Package now, but with every option that I need & want but without those useless options(for me) I'm getting now - I think I would be more happy :) (that itself is worth more already even if I have to pay a little more than I've paid for my present LS)

But I won't be really paying 10% more unless I get all the exact same options as before.
With customization, I can delete some options that are forced upon me now, like the completely useless self-park & a number of other minor stuff. I would be able to get the Touring Package with upgraded leather option & 19" rims, together with some rear seat upgrades, but not necessarily the Exec. Package &/or the RSES(don't care for the flip down screen, prefer aftemarket ones on head rests).
I can see myself paying the exact amount as I paid for my Executive Package now, but with every option that I need & want but without those useless options(for me) I'm getting now - I think I would be more happy :) (that itself is worth more already even if I have to pay a little more than I've paid for my present LS)
no, i am not saying you will pay the same. you will STILL end up paying more, that's what i am saying, and that's what i think will be the case. we have the prime examples of bmw and mb right in front of us already

buying a car and having it in stock would be an absolute nightmare if there wasnt option packages. Theres way too many possible combinations of how a car can be optioned if there wasnt packages

Somehow Porsche makes a living doing this. ;) Actually they're one of, if not THE, most profitable car maker in the world.

if you get around to reading how toyotas lean production system works, custom orders are detrimental to how lean production works

Exactly. Toyota and Lexus make cars like McDonalds makes burgers. Consistently, reliably, but you if you want to customize maybe you can't at all, or you wait forever. :p

But I don't expect a high end restaurant to be like McDonalds. I want to be able to delete, add, replace, etc. That's what luxury is about.

But it's not only high end that allows customization. Look at Dell. In a few days you can get a computer configured EXACTLY how you want it from HUNDREDS of options.

I think it would be great if Lexus dealers had just one or two (maybe one loaded and maybe a second basic) of each model on the lot and if you don't want one of those after a test drive you get to pick what you want exactly and sign a contract (with money down) and a commitment you'd get your car in 30 days.

Here's the Lexus Japan customization bit I was referring to. Has anyone here actually seen this in the Lexus Japan dealerships?

From Lexus Luxury, Summer 2005:

Yeah, I understand the concept of how less options can mean less prices, although I have yet to look into the specifics of Toyota's system...

But I'd think they'd want to consider at least opening the options up a little.

Wouldn't it be hard to compare Japanese vs German manufacturers since there's a huge heritage with the Germans and they can price that into their brand? I don't think BMW's $18000 worth of options are worth that. How much could the Japanese manufacturers get those options for?

Also, considering how relatively low volume some of their pretty unique cars are, you would think they have some degree of flexibility.

I mean, the LX sells a small amount...yet, they continue making it...etc. etc. And the GS as well.

Yeah, I understand the concept of how less options can mean less prices, although I have yet to look into the specifics of Toyota's system...

But I'd think they'd want to consider at least opening the options up a little.

Wouldn't it be hard to compare Japanese vs German manufacturers since there's a huge heritage with the Germans and they can price that into their brand? I don't think BMW's $18000 worth of options are worth that. How much could the Japanese manufacturers get those options for?

Also, considering how relatively low volume some of their pretty unique cars are, you would think they have some degree of flexibility.

I mean, the LX sells a small amount...yet, they continue making it...etc. etc. And the GS as well.
i can see what you mean, it's a matter of judgment i think. bottom line is some people won't be happy, some people won't care, and some people are all good.

if you look at the whole market, you have the extreme case of bmw allowing you to choose everything, to acura where you choose either nav or not. you hear complains on both of them. lexus is in the middle with some flexibilities but not all, and i understand the complaints about it too

for me, i have adapted myself to it. i understand i am paying "extra" for options that i don't need on my gs350 (and especially on my ls460l), but i am more than happy when i know i am still paying a lot less than a comparable 5 series or s class

I like the ability to add on accessories like Toyota with the different trim levels, but Honda's system with DX/LX and LX-P/EX/EX-L, VP, and SE is a lot simpler.

I think it's totally acceptable the way Asian companies package their cars.

Why? Because they pretty much come with everything standard already especially the top trims. Asian companies have developed these "trim levels" for efficiency, conveniance, value, ect.

Did you guys know that in a BMW 3-series for example, power seats are OPTIONAL. Hello?? EVERY Japanese entry-level luxury car has them standard and for a lower price.

The list goes on and on. Acura's and Lexus's come with everything you would expect standard. German cars get crazy overpriced with these same features added.

That's actually one point that made shopping for my used SC430 a breeze...there are basically no options for this car.

There are 2 actual options for the SC430 -

1) Run-flat tires...which pretty-much all of them have because the spare tire demolishes the trunk-space

2) Rear spoiler...which I think all but about 7 cars have!

But, when it came to looking for a car, all I had to worry about was year, mileage, and interior/exterior color.

One the other hand, I've looked at Civic's and, one of the things I HATE is you can't get a decent Civic WITHOUT a sunroof. The cheap model doesn't have one but, if you want all the nice options of the EX, it's got a sunroof. Well, I'm 6'1" and I need that extra inch of headroom in that small car. Too bad.

I do not find a problem in this... I do not think anyone would unless they want their car with like no/nearly no options

Funny in some European countries the only way to get a Lexus is to sit down with a salesman and configure it any way you want it and than wait for almost a year or so for delievery.
That is because they dont have nothing in stock except few display cars and they dont even sell 100 cars per year:p

Did you guys know that in a BMW 3-series for example, power seats are OPTIONAL. Hello??

BMW's are sporty cars. Some people don't want the added WEIGHT of power seats. All those motors and shafts add quite a bit. Power seats are actually a feature I really don't care about. I hardly EVER adjust the position of my seat.

One the other hand, I've looked at Civic's and, one of the things I HATE is you can't get a decent Civic WITHOUT a sunroof. The cheap model doesn't have one but, if you want all the nice options of the EX, it's got a sunroof. Well, I'm 6'1" and I need that extra inch of headroom in that small car. Too bad.

+1 - I wish I could get a car without a sunroof but with other options I want. A sunroof is another feature I use about once a year.

Funny in some European countries the only way to get a Lexus is to sit down with a salesman and configure it any way you want it and than wait for almost a year or so for delievery.
That is because they dont have nothing in stock except few display cars and they dont even sell 100 cars per year:p

I would also expect a lot of Lexus dealer locations in Europe just don't have the space to keep much inventory. But again, selling from inventory is a cheesy game where the dealer tries to get you to buy a car on the spot that you may not want, with various tricks. :rolleyes: I got all those same tricks played when I bought my Lexus vehicles. Even had a sales guy tell my wife we would be charged $100 extra if we wanted the dealer logo NOT on the vehicle. :mad: Lexus needs to make their selling experience as good as their facilities, cars, and service.

We also have to look at sales figures. Lexus clearly has minimal issues with how they package cars as people buy them in droves.

One of the reasons people buy a Lexus is b/c its an easier purchase. There are only a handful of options and you are on your merry way. Most dealers equip the cars the same.

The Germans will move to this way of building cars eventually as they have to continue to cut costs. They know and have stated how inefficient their building process can be at times.

It might be an opportunity for coach-builders and the aftermarket.

In my case, though, the lack of options flexibility for the Lexus LS caused me to take a MUCH closer look at the S550 than I would otherwise have. I was undecided between the two for quite a while.

I still think it sucks that I can't get the Touring Package together with some of the rear-seat options & the upgraded premium leather that I have on my LS now, that would have been a more ideal car for me. I don't even mind paying a little more for the exact options combo I want (& it won't be anything close to as much as 10% more than I have paid, since with customization, I can delete some of the useless options in my car now that I don't really want - like the self-park, the entertainment system with flip-down screen, etc., ...)

We also have to look at sales figures. Lexus clearly has minimal issues with how they package cars as people buy them in droves.

One of the reasons people buy a Lexus is b/c its an easier purchase. There are only a handful of options and you are on your merry way. Most dealers equip the cars the same.


Lexus sales are mostly driven by ES, IS and RX models where lots of customization isn't demanded. But as Andrew points out, if you're spending BIG bucks on a vehicle, only being able to get vanilla, strawberry, or chocolate isn't good enough for a lot of customers. They may end up buying, but they resent having paid for things they didn't want, or not being able to get combinations of things they did want.

The Germans will move to this way of building cars eventually as they have to continue to cut costs. They know and have stated how inefficient their building process can be at times.

Again, maybe so for the lower end models 1, 3, C, E, but not the 7, S, etc.

Actually bit, the RX has more interior combinations than any LExus . I was shocked to find that out. I started a thread on it

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334951&highlight=interior

http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/pub/media?id=27365309
http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/pub/media?id=27365352
http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/pub/media?id=27366090
http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/pub/media?id=27368971
http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/pub/media?id=27365401
http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/pub/media?id=27365306
http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/pub/media?id=27365332

Lexus sales are mostly driven by ES, IS and RX models where lots of customization isn't demanded. But as Andrew points out, if you're spending BIG bucks on a vehicle, only being able to get vanilla, strawberry, or chocolate isn't good enough for a lot of customers. They may end up buying, but they resent having paid for things they didn't want, or not being able to get combinations of things they did want.



Again, maybe so for the lower end models 1, 3, C, E, but not the 7, S, etc.
again, as i pointed out before. with the current ls460l around 80k to 86k, so many people are already screaming expensive and blah blah blah. imagine if you are allowed to customize everything and you end up paying 90k for a less equipped car (due to increase in cost)?

i am sure some people (like andrew and me) probably won't mind paying more for less (just so we can customize our cars), but to general public with the image of lexus? i am not sure. again, don't assume if you are allowed to customize your car to choose less options, you will be paying less.

Somehow Porsche makes a living doing this. ;) Actually they're one of, if not THE, most profitable car maker in the world.

they have the highest profit margins per vehicle, that doesn't necessarily mean they are the most profitable. They most certainly dont make more total profits than Toyota, they only make more money per vehicle but at the same time sell a heck of a lot less vehicles

This has been a trend that I have never really been in favor of. I remember going to the dealership as a kid with my parents to buy a car (Honda in this case) and you could choose the actual radio going into the car. Simple AM/FM, AM/FM Cassette, Delux model, whatever. I remember them showing is about 6-8 different single DIN radios. Back then the customer really did get the car almost exactly how he wanted it. That wasn't that long ago either, it was the early to mid 80s.

Just like how some people are willing to be a premium for a certain badge on a car just because its that brand name, I'm willing to pay a premium to get options I want and not have to have options I don't want or care for. I really don't care for this "Luxury Our Way" kind of sales. I rather have "Luxury My Way".

again, as i pointed out before. with the current ls460l around 80k to 86k, so many people are already screaming expensive and blah blah blah. imagine if you are allowed to customize everything and you end up paying 90k for a less equipped car (due to increase in cost)?

i am sure some people (like andrew and me) probably won't mind paying more for less (just so we can customize our cars), but to general public with the image of lexus? i am not sure. again, don't assume if you are allowed to customize your car to choose less options, you will be paying less.

That's because most people don't really think or care that much about the specifics in a car ?

I've got a LS460L now with the most options one can possibly get, but yet I still feel I am missing something major that they have available.
So no one can convince me that I am getting a better deal/BEST VALUE just because they manufacture these cars more efficiently with pre-determined options packages.
REAL VALUE is having ALL the options that you need & want, & not merely having the most options while still missing something that you really want, but having to pay for some other options you don't want that are forced upon you.

It seems like the consensus here (and one I agree with ) is that we're not against the car manufacturers offering packages...it makes sense for most car buyers...but, for those of us that want customization, that option should also be available.

If you want the Navigation system but not the upgraded leather seats, you should be able to get it. Everyone understands that it will take longer to take delivery of the vehicle and will cost more (per option) than the packages but, the option should be there for us.

Actually bit, the RX has more interior combinations than any LExus . I was shocked to find that out. I started a thread on it

Cool, but that still doesn't mean the customer can get what they want at any time because the vehicle is still sold with the approach that you buy what's on the lot or maybe something that's coming in soon on allocation.

But for most of those sales of this 'volume' model (for a luxury brand), that works just fine. My concerns are more with the more niche/expensive models (e.g., SC, GS, LS, LX) and that customers should be more accommodated to get what they want.

But for most of those sales of this 'volume' model (for a luxury brand), that works just fine. My concerns are more with the more niche/expensive models (e.g., SC, GS, LS, LX) and that customers should be more accommodated to get what they want.

Yes, in fact it cost Lexus $125K (and a lot of word-of-mouth) to be so inflexible with their ordering process for my LS600. It almost cost them the sale of my L-Tuned GS as well, but luckily I decided to live with the limited choices and do the deal that time.

Bit has repeatedly hit the nail on the head: in today's market, luxury means choice, and getting what the customer wants. This is true in travel, home theater, fine dining, and cars (at least with the brands other than Lexus who aim for stratospheric customers).

Yes, in fact it cost Lexus $125K (and a lot of word-of-mouth) to be so inflexible with their ordering process for my LS600. It almost cost them the sale of my L-Tuned GS as well, but luckily I decided to live with the limited choices and do the deal that time.

Bit has repeatedly hit the nail on the head: in today's market, luxury means choice, and getting what the customer wants. This is true in travel, home theater, fine dining, and cars (at least with the brands other than Lexus who aim for stratospheric customers).
i asked quite a few times before already, but no one has seemed to answer. the ls600hl you looked at was 125k. let's say if today you can customize the ls600hl to exactly how you like (meaning some options you want, or maybe even more, but at the same time you lose some options you don't need), however the price is going to be 150k, on this LEXUS.

what do you do/say? i am curious to know. this is towards people who are capable of affording the higher end luxury cars. and don't say that price isn't realistic, it's very well possible looking at mb and bmw

my answer is please give me the current 600hl. there are some options i don't need, and possibly there are stuff i miss (not available). but the trade-off with price is where put my name on lexus

i asked quite a few times before already, but no one has seemed to answer. the ls600hl you looked at was 125k. let's say if today you can customize the ls600hl to exactly how you like (meaning some options you want, or maybe even more, but at the same time you lose some options you don't need), however the price is going to be 150k, on this LEXUS.

what do you do/say? i am curious to know. this is towards people who are capable of affording the higher end luxury cars. and don't say that price isn't realistic, it's very well possible looking at mb and bmw

my answer is please give me the current 600hl. there are some options i don't need, and possibly there are stuff i miss (not available). but the trade-off with price is where put my name on lexus

Well I don't agree with your premise that the car MUST go up $25K over what he was forced to pay for options he may not have wanted.

Yes, there's some premium to greater flexibility, but maybe MB and BMW charge what they do because they get it!

It's also a question of ATTITUDE. Lexus dealers make you feel like you asked to move mount Everest if you don't want what is on their lot or on their secret allocation list. That is LAME for high end models.

i agree with the attitude part, lexus dealerships can learn about being more courteous with customers' request. and evidently there are such dealerships, like how andrew got his ls460l and how i was offered to get the sc430 i wanted

regarding the price, no one knows the real answer, however i am always under the impression that people think they should be allowed to customize their lexus according to the current individual option list price. that for sure is incorrect. you will pay a premium. how much, no one knows, i didn't say MUST, i said IF.

at the same time, i hear a lot about people saying lexus is too expensive now. lexus is know by their values. if their prices increases further, what would it be like?

regarding the price, no one knows the real answer, however i am always under the impression that people think they should be allowed to customize their lexus according to the current individual option list price. that for sure is incorrect. you will pay a premium. how much, no one knows, i didn't say MUST, i said IF.

For grins I went to the Lexus LS600hL page last night and went to 'configure' one. First of all I was asked for zip code so it could check 'inventory'. That right there is stupid to ask FIRST for the flagship model. Anyway, it then presents one of about 5 options, base car, and base car with one of about 5 packages, some of which only differed from the one above by floor mats! I chose the base model after which it presented all the available options one by one with check boxes and prices. Why do that if it's not likely to matter or will take AGES to get the vehicle if at all?

Anyway, I think we agree generally, so 'nuff said.

at the same time, i hear a lot about people saying lexus is too expensive now. lexus is know by their values. if their prices increases further, what would it be like?

I think that's pretty absurd. Lexus are now cheaper than EVER when accounting for inflation and content.

I still remember looking at a first gen GS300 in the early 90s and it was stickered at $46,000! My Acura Legend GS sedan was $38K I think. As nostalgic as we are about cars like that for the time, a new GS350 for not much more money today blows it away in every direction.

On CL for example, I'd guess 80% don't buy a new vehicle anyway so they don't want to talk about new vehicle prices and will always think everything is too expensive.

i agree with the attitude part, lexus dealerships can learn about being more courteous with customers' request. and evidently there are such dealerships, like how andrew got his ls460l and how i was offered to get the sc430 i wanted
Not sure what you were referring to about how you got the SC430 you wanted, they didn't get you the white SC430 with black interior that you really wanted right ? (having to pay MSRP for factory order is total BS - I certainly didn't).
I have no issues at all with the dealership or Lexus Canada's factory ordering system at all (unlike say Iceman with his 600hL order).
I factory ordered because there weren't much choices at all in the color combinations of the LS460L Exec.Package that were readily available(& which I don't want).
So they said you can pick the color combo, it's a 4-month wait, & they made good on that promise, it arrived in slightly less than 4 months.

And as I mentioned in my LS460L thread, I made them change my color combination choice twice AFTER they've already sent in the order, & that did not delay my order at all, I got exactly what I want on time.:)

My only issue with them is not letting me decide the exact options combination that I want.

And I agree with Bit, their prices won't have to increase anywhere near to as much as you suggested the premium would be even if they allow you to customize. The Germans have to charge more mostly because of their labour union contracts I think . . .

These forums seem to have a wide variety of Lexus enthusiasts.

I'm surprised the ones with interests in really expensive cars don't speak up so much. I'm talking those who own / like cars that are $100,000-$150,000 and up...

I'm also surprised I don't hear much about such cars--aren't all cars interesting, even the ones we may never be able to purchase?

I guess part of this topic is a bias toward the value-minded Lexus customer. The rich are getting richer, so why shouldn't Lexus try to capture that market?

Some people have a bunch of money but don't care to drive a really expensive car. Those who have been in a Lexus understand why paying more isn't necessary.

But consider, one possibility. Someone is considering either a Mercedes Benz for...$100,000, or a Lexus for $72,000. It's not a question of money. They don't necessarily want to save $20,000+.

They get in the Lexus and say, "aaaaahhh." And they get in the Benz and say, "Hm, not as nice." But, then they look at the options and color combinations for each, and find Lexus is severely lacking.

Possibly, in some cases, Mercedes will win the sale. There's many ways of looking at it. I think if Lexus were willing to try something different for customers willing to spend a whole lot more, they could find some interesting sales.

That is, if a Lexus customer says, I'm cross shopping your $72,000 car against a $100,000 car, and my problem is your car doesn't have the options I want...then Lexus should say, give us $100,000 and you get what you want. Or something like that.

Can't be certain though. I just checked the LS and S Class...they have about the same number of exterior colors available! One of my biggest problems with cars is available colors. Not enough.

But, I'm sure Lexus has numbers on all this and they know how to make it work on their end. But who knows if you don't try? The $70,000-$125,000 market is different than the $45,000-$70,000 I think.

Oh, I still suggest that car makers should hold factory enthusiast days, where a set number of people can shut down the factory, at a premium price, to have their car custom made. THAT would rule. Could you imagine like 50 different interior and exterior colors available from the factory?

I don't know about that, as the logistics may be a lot more daunting than we think to reconfigure an assembly line to handle a bunch of custom orders.

Then again, somehow Porsche does this as a matter of course. Regarding colors, they even have an option where you can bring in a fabric sample or a photograph or whatever and they will make that color on your car just for you. THAT is the kind of customization that defines today's luxury. And say what you will about MB's designo combinations, they are at least rare and distinctive for only ~10% more.

The first step is that Lexus needs to allow custom ordering from within their current set of color and option choices. I have yet to come across a dealer that said this was possible (although others here, especially in Canada, seem to have had some luck). THEN we can talk about expanding the offerings.