And why?

If you don't know, then simply take this test
Democrat or Republican Test (http://dolphin.upenn.edu/~cr/demorepub.html)

Q: What do you get when you offer a Liberal a penny for his thoughts?
A: Change.

Q: How do you confuse a Liberal?
A: You don't. They're born that way.

Q: Why is it good to have a Democrat passenger?
A: You can park in the handicap zone.

Q: What's the difference between Elvis and a smart Liberal?
A: Elvis has been sighted.

A Democrat died and a friend went around collecting for a fund for his funeral. A woman was asked to donate ten dollars.
"Ten dollars?" she said. "It only takes ten dollars to bury a Democrat? Here's a hundred - go bury 10 of them!"

Q: How do you keep a Democrat busy?
A: Write 'Please turn over' on both sides of a piece of paper.

Q: How do you keep a Liberal busy all day?
A: Put him in a round room and tell him to wait in the corner.

Q: What do you call a Democrat with an IQ of 130?
A: A foursome

Q: How do you get a one-armed Liberal out of a tree?
A: Wave to him.

Q: What do you call a basement full of Liberals?
A: A whine cellar.

Q: What is the definition of gross ignorance?
A: 144 Democrats.

Q: What is foreplay for a Democrat?
A: Thirty minutes of begging.

Q: What is the Democrat doing when he holds his hands tightly over his ears?
A: Trying to hold on to a thought.

Q: Why did the Liberal have blisters on his lips?
A: From trying to blow out lightbulbs.

Q: Why do Liberals work seven days a week?
A: So you don't have to retrain them on Monday.

A Democrat found a magic genie's lamp and rubbed it. The genie said, "I will grant you one wish." He said, "I wish I were smarter". So the genie made him a Republican.

Q: What the difference between a Democrat and the rear end of a horse?
A: I don't know either.

Q: How is a Liberal different from a sewer rat?
A: Some people actually like sewer rats.

Q: How many Democrats does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. They prefer to walk in the dark.

Q: Why do so many Liberals live in L.A.?
A: It’s the only city that is easy enough for them to spell.

Q: What's five miles long and has an IQ of forty?
A: A Democrat parade.

Q: What is it called when a Liberal blows in another Liberal’s ear?
A: Data transfer.

Q: Why don't they let Liberals swim in the ocean?
A: Because they can't get the smell out of the tuna.

Q: How do you plant dope?
A: Bury a Democrat.

Q: What's the difference between a Liberal and a sack of manure?
A: The sack.

Q: What's the definition of a Democrat running for Congress for the first time?
A: A mouse trying to become a rat.

Q: What's the difference between God and a Democrat?
A: God knows He's not a Democrat.

i take it you are republican/conservative?? :D lol those are awesome! love it!

Originally posted by amy011079
i take it you are republican/conservative?? :D lol those are awesome! love it!

Are you flirting with me? :eek2:

j/k

I must be a republican because I believe if you pay taxes you should get some of your money back, unlike democrats who believe if you don't pay taxes you should get money from the people who do.

I don't know, I might be in the wrong here....:egads: :rolleyes:

oh i was just saying that because of all the jokes against democrats and liberals. i was being sarcastic. you are definatly right wing. :thumbup:

Check these out

Q: What's the difference between Bill Clinton and a snake?
A: One is spineless, has a forked tongue and is a threat to humans. The other is a reptile


-----------------------------------------------------

THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION: "BRINGING WASHINGTON TO ITS KNEES"

------------------------------------------------------

Q: What's a conservative?
A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

------------------------------------------------------

Q: How can you tell when Bill Clinton is lying?
A: Only a Bill Clinton supporter is too dumb to know the answer to this one.


------------------------------------------------------

Q: Why do the Kennedy's cry during sex?
A: Mace


------------------------------------------------------

"I am Clinton of Borg. Your incomes will be assimilated."


------------------------------------------------------

Chrysler Corporation is adding a new car to its line to honor Bill Clinton. The Dodge Draft will begin production in Canada this year.


------------------------------------------------------

Vote Democrat... It's easier than getting a job.

------------------------------------------------------

A man is walking near a lake when he sees Bill Clinton in a sinking boat. He can either save Bill Clinton or take a picture that would earn him the Pulitzer Prize. The question is... Which lense does he use?


-------------------------------------------

A man bellies up to a bar muttering,"******* democrats".
A guy next to him says, "Hey I take offense to that".
The man says, "Why, are you a democrat".
No the guy says "I'm an *******".


-------------------------------------------

The old man was critically ill. Feeling that death was near, he called his lawyer. "I want to become a Democrat. Get me a change of registration form." "You can do it", the lawyer said, "But why? You'll be dead soon, why do you want to become a Democrat?" "That's my business! Get me the form!"


Four days later, the old man got his registration changed. His lawyer was at his bedside making sure his bill would be paid. Suddenly the old man was racked with fits of coughing, and it was clear that this would be the end. Still curious, the lawyer leaned over and said, "Please, before it's too late, tell me why you wanted to become a Democrat so badly before you died?" In a faint whisper, as he breathed his last, the old man said: "One less Democrat".


-------------------------------------------

Environmentalists are like watermelons. Green on the outside, red on the inside!


-------------------------------------------

Q: What do you get when you cross a pilgrim with a democrat?
A: A god-fearing tax collector who gives thanks for what other people have.


-------------------------------------------

In an article on Northern Ireland, the political party Sinn Fein was described as the political wing of the IRA. I guess that makes the Democratic Party the political wing of the IRS.


-------------------------------------------

A Democrat and your mother-in-law are trapped in a burning building. You only have time to save one of them.
Do you have lunch or go to a movie?


-------------------------------------------

Q: What's the difference between a Democrat and a catfish?
A: One is an ugly, scum sucking bottom-feeder and the other is a fish.


-------------------------------------------

Q: What's the difference between a Democrat on a Harley and a vacuum cleaner?
A: The vacuum has the dirt bag on the inside.


--------------------------------------------

Q: What's the difference between a Democrat and a trampoline?
A: You take off your shoes before you jump on a trampoline.


------------------------------------------------

Q: What happens when you cross a pig with a Democrat?
A: Nothing. There are some things a pig won't do.

Originally posted by amy011079
oh i was just saying that because of all the jokes against democrats and liberals. i was being sarcastic. you are definatly right wing. :thumbup:

I know I know, I was just kidding.. Muh g/f would care much for me flirting with people online anyhow. lol

Disclaimer: I'm not a liberal (I'm not anything, actually), but I do dislike many Conservative viewpoints

Q: What do you get when you offer a Conservative a penny for his thoughts?
A: Change.

Q: How do you confuse a Conservative?
A: You don't. They're born that way.

Q: Why is it good to have a Republican passenger?
A: You can park in the handicap zone.

Q: What's the difference between Elvis and a smart Conservative?
A: Elvis has been sighted.

A Republican died and a friend went around collecting for a fund for his funeral. A woman was asked to donate ten dollars.
"Ten dollars?" she said. "It only takes ten dollars to bury a Republican? Here's a hundred - go bury 10 of them!"

Q: How do you keep a Conservative busy?
A: Write 'Please turn over' on both sides of a piece of paper.

Q: How do you keep a Conservative busy all day?
A: Put him in a round room and tell him to wait in the corner.

Q: What do you call a Conservative with an IQ of 130?
A: A foursome

Q: How do you get a one-armed Conservative out of a tree?
A: Wave to him.

Q: What is the Republican doing when he holds his hands tightly over his ears?
A: Trying to hold on to a thought.

Q: Why did the Conservative have blisters on his lips?
A: From trying to blow out lightbulbs.

Q: Why do Conservatives work seven days a week?
A: So you don't have to retrain them on Monday.

Q: What the difference between a Republican and the rear end of a horse?
A: I don't know either.

Q: How is a Conservative different from a sewer rat?
A: Some people actually like sewer rats.

Q: How many Republicans does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. They prefer to walk in the dark.

Q: Why do so many Liberals live in L.A.?
A: It’s the only city that is easy enough for them to spell.

Q: What's five miles long and has an IQ of forty?
A: A Republican parade.

Q: What is it called when a Republican blows in another Republican's ear?
A: Data transfer.

Q: Why don't they let Conservatives swim in the ocean?
A: Because they can't get the smell out of the tuna.

Q: How do you plant dope?
A: Bury a Republican.

Q: What's the difference between a Conservative and a sack of manure?
A: The sack.

Q: What's the definition of a Republican running for Congress for the first time?
A: A mouse trying to become a rat.

Q: What's the difference between God and a Republican?
A: God knows He's not a Democrat.

:p :p

I'm one Conservative mother ****er.

I'm pretty conservative as well but I voted Independent. I pick canidates based on merit and not based on party. Partisan politics is already the downfall of our government. Nothing gets done and when it does, it's always some sort of bully tactics to accomplish it. Both parties are screwed. They are both out of their minds

The poor:
Repulicans: Let em starve
Dems: Coddle and throw money at them.

The environment
Rep: Use it now. No planet for our children
Dem: Restrict use until we're all driving a horse and buggy again.

Just examples. No real solutions on either side. F em.

Pretty funny jokes, both Democratic and Republican!:thumbup:

I agree with Vegassc400, I tend to have some conservative views, but I vote for the most qualified candidate.

What I always found intresting is that here (Deep south) The people in the Liberal party are conservative and vice versa.

Anyways... The economy is too bad to be Republican... Cost of living is less down here, but so are highly avalible well above average paying jobs :\.
I'd rather see a democratic President purely based off the economy. However I had no problem telling my extremely democratic grandfather I voted for Bush because "he's not a *****".

If you'll notice, the only old people that are rich are Republicans...

I'd prefer a Democratic President that's not a ***** with a slight majority republican senate & a democratic house.

That's about all!

Here are the good things and the bad thing about both parties.

Republican Good Things
1. Morally bound to do the right thing.
2. More prone to finding a solution to a problem rather than just critisizing the situation but not doing anything about.
3. More apt to understanding money (most republican make more than democrats and tend to have much higher educational backgrounds)
4. Tend to choose the side of whats morally and humanly right.
5. Looks at things as "What do the majority prefer" and not "what do the few hollywood actors prefer"
6. Do what they say their going to do. Example: President said we weren't going to war for oil. We haven't, or we would have the low oil prices right now. President said we must stop the threat before it become eminant. Liberals say "Why didn't we wait untill Iraq was an eminant threat".. Thats it, lets wait untill another 9-11 then attack.. Sorry, I don't think so.
7. Everyone (democrats and republicans) agreed that Iraq should have cooperated with us last year during the weapons inspections. Whe the deadline came and Iraq still hadn't followed through with the resolution (or all 19 of them) the democrats kept wanting to move the deadline. That makes us look weak and like we will do nothing. When it comes down to it, we are a much better world with Saddam out of power.

Republican Bad Things
1. Tend to not give the American people a clear understanding of whats going on.
2. Tend to be too faith driven and not enough diversity of thought
3. Do not understand that not everyone makes over $25,000.00 a year
4. Do not put enough diverse thought into plans before carrying them out.
5. Get over zelous at times.

-----------------------------

Democrat Good Things
1. Care amount alot of the minorities (and groups) that need assistance
2. Tend to care about the enviroment more than republicans
3. Tend to want to see lower income people get more money

Democrat bad Things
1. Blame EVERY problem on Republicans
2. Only disagree on issues because a republican might have come up with it.
3. Tend to make everyone problem sound like it started with Bush going into office and not relize that the economic recession started at the last part of Clintons term and that 9-11 didn't really help either.
4. Tend to justify the need for anything that any small group wants to complain about.
5. Tend to believe that people who pay NO TAXES should get money back from the people who pay all the taxes.

------------------------------

Something some of you might not know.
According to the presidents tax cut, more than 80% of the population that pays taxes will get a larger tax cut. Democrats would have you believe that only the weathly get the majority of the tax cuts. Well thats true if you consider what democrat call wealthy.

Democrats Scale of wealth (as reported by MSNBC)
Poverty Income: Less than $12,000 per year for a Family of 4
Low Income: More than $12,000 but less than $18,000 per year for a family of 4
*Average income: More than $18,000 per year but less than $35,000 for a family of 4
*High Income: More than $35,000 per year but less than $65,000 per year for a family of 4
*Wealthy Class: More than $65,000 per year but less than $92,000 per year
Ultra Wealthy class: $92,000+ per year for a family of 4

(* incates the income levels that would receive the largest tax break)

Now where do you fall in that???

Now tell me, do republicans only care about the weathly (if you think thats wealthy)

Originally posted by Toysrme
What I always found intresting is that here (Deep south) The people in the Liberal party are conservative and vice versa.

Anyways... The economy is too bad to be Republican... Cost of living is less down here, but so are highly avalible well above average paying jobs :\.
I'd rather see a democratic President purely based off the economy. However I had no problem telling my extremely democratic grandfather I voted for Bush because "he's not a *****".

If you'll notice, the only old people that are rich are Republicans...
Do you mean like Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Diane Feinstein and many others in congress? Do you know that the richest members of the Senate and house are Democrats?

I'd prefer a Democratic President that's not a ***** with a slight majority republican senate & a democratic house.

That's about all!

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0


Something some of you might not know.
According to the presidents tax cut, more than 80% of the population that pays taxes will get a larger tax cut. Democrats would have you believe that only the weathly get the majority of the tax cuts. Well thats true if you consider what democrat call wealthy.

Democrats Scale of wealth (as reported by MSNBC)
Poverty Income: Less than $12,000 per year for a Family of 4
Low Income: More than $12,000 but less than $18,000 per year for a family of 4
*Average income: More than $18,000 per year but less than $35,000 for a family of 4
*High Income: More than $35,000 per year but less than $65,000 per year for a family of 4
*Wealthy Class: More than $65,000 per year but less than $92,000 per year
Ultra Wealthy class: $92,000+ per year for a family of 4

(* incates the income levels that would receive the largest tax break)

Now where do you fall in that???

Now tell me, do republicans only care about the weathly (if you think thats wealthy) [/B] well damn that means my family's loaded!! i should have gotten that pony when i was a little girl!!!! ahh i will never forgive my parents!!!! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by amy011079
well damn that means my family's loaded!! i should have gotten that pony when i was a little girl!!!! ahh i will never forgive my parents!!!! :rolleyes:

lol

3. More apt to understanding money (most republican make more than democrats and tend to have much higher educational backgrounds

that might be the most ridiculous comment i have ever heard, and could actually not be more far from the truth. Please discern this for me if your statement is true. I once heard about a pole here on campus that was done on political ideologies and preferences of college professors at colleges throughout the country. Over 70% of college professors tend to vote Democratic rather than Republican. Hence, a college professor has usually achieved a fair degree of education. How does this reason with your unbelievable broad assumption of Republicans being smarter than democrats. Since this a mere matter of opinion, i would tend believe the EXACT opposite, based on life experiences. My father, a nuclear operator, and one of the most intelligent men i have ever known, is a yellow dog democrat. Myself, a junior with a 3.8 cumulative GPA (thusfar) that is majoring in poly sci and headed to law school (hopefully, taking my LSAT on Oct 9), am about as big of a democrat as they come. My best friend and High school salutatorian, who is at Carolina right now and is headed to law school too, is perhaps the most liberal hippie i have ever met. My roomate, who was VALEDICTORIAN of his high school (and future tv meterologist) is a hardcore Democrat. So listen, saying Republicans are in general smarter than democrats is a gross overexaggeration. To say the opposite might be as well. Just know that it is amazingly difficult to classify such large groups of people into broad categories such as smart and smarter.

btw, if they're more apt to understanding money, then tell me why President bush enterd office with the strongest economy in US HISTORY and in less then two years turned every economic category straight down. Tell me why he spent all of our surplus and bankrupted the treasury. Tell me why he shattered the record for the biggest annual budget deficit in history.

Originally posted by BAWLEX94
that might be the most ridiculous comment i have ever heard, and could actually not be more far from the truth. Please discern this for me if your statement is true. I once heard about a pole here on campus that was done on political ideologies and preferences of college professors at colleges throughout the country. Over 70% of college professors tend to vote Democratic rather than Republican. Hence, a college professor has usually achieved a fair degree of education. How does this reason with your unbelievable broad assumption of Republicans being smarter than democrats. Since this a mere matter of opinion, i would tend believe the EXACT opposite, based on life experiences. My father, a nuclear operator, and one of the most intelligent men i have ever known, is a yellow dog democrat. Myself, a junior with a 3.8 cumulative GPA (thusfar) that is majoring in poly sci and headed to law school (hopefully, taking my LSAT on Oct 9), am about as big of a democrat as they come. My best friend and High school salutatorian, who is at Carolina right now and is headed to law school too, is perhaps the most liberal hippie i have ever met. My roomate, who was VALEDICTORIAN of his high school (and future tv meterologist) is a hardcore Democrat. So listen, saying Republicans are in general smarter than democrats is a gross overexaggeration. To say the opposite might be as well. Just know that it is amazingly difficult to classify such large groups of people into broad categories such as smart and smarter.

btw, if they're more apt to understanding money, then tell me why President bush enterd office with the strongest economy in US HISTORY and in less then two years turned every economic category straight down. Tell me why he spent all of our surplus and bankrupted the treasury. Tell me why he shattered the record for the biggest annual budget deficit in history. hmmmmm i sense some irony here.
Democrat bad Things:

3. Tend to make everyone problem sound like it started with Bush going into office and not relize that the economic recession started at the last part of Clintons term and that 9-11 didn't really help either.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BAWLEX94
that might be the most ridiculous comment i have ever heard, and could actually not be more far from the truth. Please discern this for me if your statement is true. I once heard about a pole here on campus that was done on political ideologies and preferences of college professors at colleges throughout the country. Over 70% of college professors tend to vote Democratic rather than Republican. Hence, a college professor has usually achieved a fair degree of education.

Answer: Because if they were smart they would be Doing and not Teaching....Plus, there are more working people that are smart that are NOT democrats, then there are Processors who are.
(disclaimer: This statement in no way expresses a dislike or lacking of any type of education by teachers or anyone related to teachers..This is a Joke...a true one, but still, a joke)

btw, if they're more apt to understanding money, then tell me why President bush enterd office with the strongest economy in US HISTORY and in less then two years turned every economic category straight down. Tell me why he spent all of our surplus and bankrupted the treasury. Tell me why he shattered the record for the biggest annual budget deficit in history.

Answer: Your Wrong, President Bush entered office with a surplus of money THAT HAD STARTED A DOWNWARD FALL FROM THE LAST TERM OF CLINTON!! if you don't believe this, just research a bit)

Oh yeah, what happened on 9-11? hmm you think that might have something to do with a falling economy? probably.

Myself, a junior with a 3.8 cumulative GPA (thusfar) that is majoring in poly sci and headed to law school (hopefully, taking my LSAT on Oct 9), am about as big of a democrat as they come. My best friend and High school salutatorian, who is at Carolina right now and is headed to law school too, is perhaps the most liberal hippie i have ever met. My roomate, who was VALEDICTORIAN of his high school (and future tv meterologist) is a hardcore Democrat.

we can't go into the "I have friends that are smart and democrats, so therefore most of them are smart" speel. Guess what, I have a whole legal department that works for me! You have to undestand, MOST (not all) CEO, CFO, COO, CPA's, Engineers, Military Members, Leaders, and Business owners in general are Republicans.

we can't go into the "I have friends that are smart and democrats, so therefore most of them are smart" speel. Guess what, I have a whole legal department that works for me! You have to undestand, MOST (not all) CEO, CFO, COO, CPA's, Engineers, Military Members, Leaders, and Business owners in general are Republicans.

whats funny to me is that with this comment, you seem to be arguing against something that you started. I thought it was ridiculous that you threw in the comment "Republicans are generally much better educated then Democrats". That comment is just as one sided and silly as my comment about myself and my friends (which is the primary reason for me using those as an example, to illustrate how everyone has a story about something). In the same way that you believe Republicans are smarter than democrats, even though that is based on NO facts whatsoever, i believe the exact opposite.

btw... i wonder if your actually considering all of the Republicans base. Sure, many conservatives are CEO's and so forth (likewise for democrats however), but are you remembering the bible belt south? Are you remembering those that are living in trailer parks with no high school degree that like Bush cause they get to keep their guns and because they'd rather see their daughters die than have an abortion?

How to Tell Republicans from Democrats:


Democrats buy the books that have been banned somewhere.
Republicans form censorship committees and read them as a group.

Republicans consume three-fourths of all the rutabagas produced in this country.
Democrats throw the remainder in the trash.

Republicans usually don't wear hats.
Democrats do, but they're called baseball caps.

Republicans give their worn-out clothes to those less fortunate.
Democrats wear theirs.

Republicans employ exterminators.
Democrats step on the bugs.

Democrats name their children after currently-popular sports figures, politicians, or entertainers.
Republican children are named after their parents or grandparents, according to where the money is.

Democrats try to cut down on smoking but are not successful.
Republicans are limited by import restrictions on Cuban cigars.

Republicans tend to keep their curtains drawn, although there is seldom any reason why they should.
Democrats ought to pull down their shades, but don't.

Republicans study the financial pages of the newspaper.
Democrats put them in the bottom of the bird cage.

Ugly stuff along the highway has been approved by Democratic politicans.
Republicians don't notice the lack of scenery from the back of the limo.

Republicans raise dahlias, Dalmatians and eyebrows.
Democrats raise hell, kids and taxes.

Democrats eat the fish they catch.
Republicans hang them on the wall.

Republican boys date Democratic girls. They plan to marry Republican girls, but feel that they're entitled to a little fun first.

Democrats make plans and then do something else.
Republicans follow the plans their grandfathers made.

btw....partisan is spelled with an 'a', rather than an 'o' like the way it's typed in the poll.

well I guess we have figured out that 5 members of CL are non "partison".

Originally posted by BAWLEX94
btw... i wonder if your actually considering all of the Republicans base. Sure, many conservatives are CEO's and so forth (likewise for democrats however), but are you remembering the bible belt south? Are you remembering those that are living in trailer parks with no high school degree that like Bush cause they get to keep their guns and because they'd rather see their daughters die than have an abortion? well when you try and correct someone for something you may want to proof read what you have written first. :confused: just a thought.

and btw, what is wrong with having guns? as long as you are mature enough to handle them and have the experience to know how to use them.

Man Who 'Had Enough' Kills Suspect (http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94251)

Refer to this post.. Amen

I knew noone was touhcing my posts, ah well.

Anyways... I'd still have voted Bush of Gore.

FYI the economy was beginning to slide at the end of Clinton's 6 and a half year mark...

Very true

SCLexus3.0 you have entirely too much time. Are you sure you aren't on welfare yourself? I think you've alienated a lot of moderate Republicans with your extreme and stereotypical views, or what you would consider jokes, because last I checked the convservative majority here was far higher than your poll suggests. But continue to have fun with your little right-wing thread anyway! :)

I voted Republican.

The jokes gave me a chuckle, reality hurts, huh?

My favorite:
Republicans raise dahlias, Dalmatians and eyebrows.
Democrats raise hell, kids and taxes.

what lex400sc brought up is something i noticed near the start of this thread too. During the Iraq forums, I would have guessed their were no more than three or four democrats on this forum. I certainly wouldn't have given it a 50/30 split between the two. Either your comments have alienated some of the views, or there are a lot of new "left wing fanatics" (as you might put it) on this board.

no, I think the people that are republicans are still republicans and I think the same about democrats...

Whats CRAZY here is:
1. lex400sc justifies ANYTHING bad that happens to this country
2. he defends those who have any negative views of this country.
3. Even when there are facts against the people and countries that hate ours, he still comes up with the things that we did JUST TO MAKE US SOUND BAD.

I love my country AND I SHOW IT ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

lex400sc shows that he dispises this country by speaking his mind negatively about it and using our "Freedoms" as his justification to do so when in fact our "freedoms" were granted to us by great men who died for them. This is what I don't like about liberals and some democrats. Thats not right at all.

"Freedoms" as his justification to do so when in fact our "freedoms" were granted to us by great men who died for them. This is what I don't like about liberals and some democrats. Thats not right at all.

how many times do i have to repeat that one of these "freedoms" that you say men died to protect is the freedom to speak your mind. People speaking critically of our country isn't something that has happened recently, and it isn't something that only democrats do. Republicans and conservatives alike will complain to no end when a democrat is holding office. It goes both ways. Just because you speak negatively of things that this country has done does not mean you despise it. Why can't you see that? lex400sc doesn't hate this country, he hates the way that it's being led, like myself. Do you see a difference? Because if you don't, then I'm afraid your missing something huge.

This is simply the most inane thread I have seen on any message board. There is a biased poll to start which is then followed by a bunch of jokes that clearly explain why the poll itself is a joke. The original poster is very young and obviously does not understand that you can criticize things about the United States and still love the country. It is not all or nothing.

Signed a non-partison (sic)

I love my mom, I don't complain about her, I love my car, I don't complain about it. I love my country, I don't complain about it. There is a trend happening there. How can you love something and yet complain/dislike it at the same time. I gues this goes back to riding the fence, guess the dems wouldn't know anything about that now would they?

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
1. lex400sc justifies ANYTHING bad that happens to this country

Because for every effect, there is a cause. I know you really don't care what causes the problems we face in our country and world because you obviously have the solution to everything already (without even knowing the problem), but some people are a bit more rational and want to have a discussion about what the problems are exactly. You've NEVER ever contributed any meaningful content to any of the political threads. If anyone here doubts that, just trace back all the political threads. All you do is make sweeping generalizations, pass judgments on everyone and everything, and pass off your opinions as facts. It really doesn't reflect well on you when you have such strong beliefs yet aren't quite sure what makes your beliefs valid or true.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
2. he defends thoughs who have any negative views of this country.

No, I actually acknowledge the negatives about this country that I love very much. Your love for this country is blind and you believe that nothing that we've done could possibly be wrong because American politicians are perfect beings. No wait, actually the root of every problem in this world is due to liberals, even though you aren't quite sure how to explain this phenomenon. Love doesn't mean a damn thing when it is blind and ignorant like your "USA! USA!" type love. A flag on your house and a bumper sticker on your car doesn't make your patriotic. What makes you patriotic is the active effort you take to improve your country and its faults. But according to you this country is faultless and there is nothing to improve, so all there is left to do is blindfold yourself and jump up and down waving a flag.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
3. Even when there are facts against the people and countries that hate ours, he still comes up with the things that we did JUST TO MAKE US SOUND BAD.

It's called facts. I present facts. If it makes us sound bad, that's because it is bad. Should I deny the fact that the United States provided WMD to Saddam in the 1980's just because it "sounds bad"? Should I deny the fact that we really didn't care that Saddam used WMD on the Kurds at the time just because it "sounds bad"? I guess we should erase the fact of slavery from all our history books because it "sounds bad". I, like others, point out our mistakes in the hopes that we don't commit them ever again. When people say "history teaches us nothing" and "history repeats itself", it's because of people like you that deny that any fault or wrongdoing was ever taken on our behalf, and thus the same mistakes are committed because of your lack of awareness.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
I love my country AND I SHOW IT ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

Indolence and apathy are expressions of love? I think worry and concern is a greater expression of love. I show my love every day by expressing unpopular opinions that do not benefit me in any way, but that just might raise an awareness about a real problem.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
lex400sc shows that he dispises this country by speaking his mind negatively about it and using our "Freedoms" as his justification to do so when in fact our "freedoms" were granted to us by great men who died for them. This is what I don't like about liberals and some democrats. Thats not right at all.

You totally misunderstand the freedoms of this country. The freedom of speech and protest were granted by our founding fathers not so you can curse at the driver that just cut you off on the freeway, the freedoms of speech and protest were granted so that dissent could emerge, which, believe it or not (!!!) is considered HEALTHY for DEMOCRACY! If there is criticism, one can address a flaw and then improve upon it. If there is dissent, you have a multipolarity of ideas and a diversity of opinions that work to build a better society. If there is just a society of proud, loving, arrogant suck-ups that refuse to believe any problem could ever exist in their ways, you develop a tyranny when those in power take advantage of such ignorance and bend the will of the people to their liking. This is exactly what came to be in Italy, Germany, and Japan during the 1930s. I'm not saying this is where we in the US are headed, I'm saying in your "perfect society" of "patriotic" citizens where no one bothers to monitor the centers of power, you create the perfect circumstance for fascism.

Originally posted by SDuquette
I love my mom, I don't complain about her, I love my car, I don't complain about it. I love my country, I don't complain about it. There is a trend happening there. How can you love something and yet complain/dislike it at the same time. I gues this goes back to riding the fence, guess the dems wouldn't know anything about that now would they?

On the flip side, let's assume your mother and father both love you. When you do something wrong like borrow their car without telling them and then crash it, do your mother and father "complain" as you put it, or "criticise" as I put it, out of love and a genuine desire to make you a better person? Or do they criticise you our of hate and resentment towards you? I possess a parental love to my country. Because I acknowledge that it is not perfect, I stand up and speak out to improve it, where a lesser person would just sit back and deny or allow mistakes and wrongdoing to recur.

Another thing I want to make sure you guys don't mistaken in the future is this: criticism and dislike for our leaders and politicians does not equate to criticism and dislike for the nation of the United States of America or the idea of the United States of America. Got it? I hope I don't have to repeat myself on this one again because I think it is a farely simple idea for you to digest. :)

Originally posted by link13
This is simply the most inane thread I have seen on any message board. There is a biased poll to start which is then followed by a bunch of jokes that clearly explain why the poll itself is a joke. The original poster is very young and obviously does not understand that you can criticize things about the United States and still love the country. It is not all or nothing.

Signed a non-partison (sic)

I could not have said this any better myself! Thank God there are other sane people here!! http://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

What you don't understand (clearly) is that I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS COUNTRY IS NOT PERFECT!!! NOBODY IS!! AND NO COUTNRY IS!!.. now..

You, on the other hand, take EVERYTHING, spin it into something that makes the U.S. look worse than ANYONE who does something bad to us.. Case in point:

The French.. You defend them and their moral, when you KNOW FOR A FACT they were and are only against what we are doing because THEY SUPPORTED IRAQ by given them Weapons to use against us! but you simply what us to understand their side and disregard the bad things they are doing.

Second..

You try at any length to make Bush look bad.. When ALL IS SAID AND DONE, HE IS DOING THE RIGHT THING!! Do you think Saddam is a good person? DO YOU THINK WE SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING.... If so, you arn't very human..

BTW.. Stop saying this war was Unpopular... MORE COUNTRIES SUPPORTED THE WAR THAN THOSE THAT DIDN'T!!!

OVER 40 Countries supported the war...

Heres a flash note for you..

1. I do understand that the rebuilding of Iraq isn't going as well as planned.. We ALL know that.
2. I do understand that the President needs to CUT SPENDING.. WE ALL KNOW THAT.
3. I do understand that he has said some WRONG information a few times.. WE ALL KNOW THAT.
4. I do understand that he DOESN'T KNOW EVERYTHING.. and WE ALL KNOW THAT..
5. I do understand that WE HAVN'T FOUND WMD yet. We ALL KNOW THAT. That does not mean we Will not find them.. At least we can PREVENT SADDAM FROM MAKING THEM if he doesn't have them.

BUT.

1. I do understand what he is trying to do.
2. I do understand that HE IS DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR HUMANITY AND FOR YOUR CHILDREN..
3. I do understand that the world will be safer for our children and their children knowing that Saddam or his kids will not build a huge army that some day could attack us with WMD.
4. I do understand that I support this country because we are the only ones trying to MAKE A POSATIVE DIFFERENCE..


Stop labling me as someone who is blind to all this information. I am human you are human we all know whats going on... Its just how we react to things thats different..

Its about doing the right things when you have the power to do them.READ THIS ARTICLE (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/118697p-106986c.html)

Originally posted by link13
This is simply the most inane thread I have seen on any message board. There is a biased poll to start which is then followed by a bunch of jokes that clearly explain why the poll itself is a joke. The original poster is very young and obviously does not understand that you can criticize things about the United States and still love the country. It is not all or nothing.

Signed a non-partison (sic)


Obviously you do NOT understand what a POLL is then.. Just because jokes lead the thread does not persuade anyone to vote any particular way.... Second, Define young...because if you are going to attach a persuasion using age, define why and make an educated point, rather than a bias and stereotypical statement.

Its one thing to criticize "things" about this country, but its a WHOLE other thing to Agree with EVERYTHING BAD that is said about this country.... Know the difference and you might be able to act your "Age" and have a better "understanding" of what’s going on in this thread..

BTW if I wanted to make this a Biased poll, I would have only given 1 choice or degraded the other choices in the poll.. Which I DID NOT DO...

Originally posted by BAWLEX94
what lex400sc brought up is something i noticed near the start of this thread too. During the Iraq forums, I would have guessed their were no more than three or four democrats on this forum. I certainly wouldn't have given it a 50/30 split between the two. Either your comments have alienated some of the views, or there are a lot of new "left wing fanatics" (as you might put it) on this board.


Don't put words into my mouth.. The people who are democrats have probably always been democrats.. I have ONLY posted facts and you and lex400sc ONLY answer the questions that you want to answer or spin them into something else..

for instance..

When it was brought up that France didn't support us because they were supporting Iraq millitarily you two spun away from the question to blame the US for things we did or have done in the past instead of even for second thinking France could be worse that the US..

oh yeah.. Unless you can change your vote, I'm asuming that most of the members entered a vote when they first came into the thread.. so that would make your point competely invalid.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
You, on the other hand, take EVERYTHING, spin it into something that makes the U.S. look worse than ANYONE who does something bad to us.. Case in point:

No, I simply explain *their* reasoning, *their* perspective, *their* view of us because outlining all of this is a big part of solving the overall problem. This is the part you skip over every time.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
The French.. You defend them and their moral, when you KNOW FOR A FACT they were and are only against what we are doing because THEY SUPPORTED IRAQ by given them Weapons to use against us! but you simply what us to understand their side and disregard the bad things they are doing.

Sorry, I forget where I did this, can you point it out please? A funny thing though, you capped the phrase "they supported Iraq" as if it was a huge incriminating shocker of a fact that the French conducted business with them, but at the same time you try to sweep under the rug that "our support for Iraq" is what "created" the whole problem of chemical and biologicial weapons in Iraq, and our support for Saddam maintained his power over time. What I point out is the hypocracy because it is the hypocracy that pisses so many people around the world off. That and the arrogance.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Second..

You try at any length to make Bush look bad.. When ALL IS SAID AND DONE, HE IS DOING THE RIGHT THING!!

That is your opinion. But I guess that is part of the problem: you see that statement as fact.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Do you think Saddam is a good person?

No.

I also think that Fidel Castro, Muammar Qadhafi, Hussein Aidid, Kim Jung-il, Jiang Zemin, Umar Bashir, Fernando Cardoso, etc are all bad, worse people. Why don't we go after them? They have between them tens of millions of murders by mass starvation, mass execution, mass genocide, torture, pillaging, rape, and greed. Saddam has 5,000. Since you are basing the decision of war on the character of a leader, it seems like our priorities, as humanitarians, are way out of wack. Why send the troops in Iraq home? We have much more work to do!!

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
DO YOU THINK WE SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING.... If so, you arn't very human

No, I think the very human thing to do is for Bush to be upfront with his motives and reasons for warring with Iraq, and then he can let Congress decide if they want to engage in such a war. Did you know that George Bush publically admitted the other day that "Saddam Hussein has no connection to the 9/11 attacks". Yet a Washington Post poll conducted afterwards suggested that 69% of Americans believed it is likely that Saddam had a role in 9/11 and only 24% of Americans believe it is not likely that Saddam had a role in the 9/11 attacks. Funny how poorly perceptions reflect reality. Do you think Bush---with all his pre-Iraq War rhetoric---was trying to tie Iraq to 9/11 or seperate the two? The answer is pretty obvious if you ask me...

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
BTW.. Stop saying this war was Unpopular... MORE COUNTRIES SUPPORTED THE WAR THAN THOSE THAT DIDN'T!!!

BTW, reread my words. I said my opinions were unpopular, not the war.

Also, you should clarify that more national governments supported the war than those that didn't. In many of these countries the actual body of people don't have any say in these matters of diplomacy. Either way, I'm not too sure of your fact since there are about 200 nations and only 40 of them voiced support. Yes I know many governments supported Bush's choice, but that is largely political. Bush PAID many countries for their white-paper approval, but only England voted to authorize troops to participate in the war. Interesting.

Also, I don't suppose Fox News would broadcast the MASSES of protests that were staged in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia that denounced strongly the war. I'm talking about record numbers of protestors, millions taking to the streets. Nope, American media was blacked out to all that dissent. We are only allowed to see the news that is fit for a wartime society.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
OVER 40 Countries supported the war...

Over 40 national governments "approved" of Bush's war.
Only ONE "believed" in it and actually committed troops to it.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
5. I do understand that WE HAVN'T FOUND WMD yet. We ALL KNOW THAT. That does not mean we Will not find them.. At least we can PREVENT SADDAM FROM MAKING THEM if he doesn't have them.

Do you also know that Saddam doesn't even have factories to produce WMD. Nor have we even found precursor material to produce WMD. Seems like it would be pretty hard for Saddam to just up and decide to produce WMD one day when he doesn't have any of the ingredients or equipment inside his country.

You can continue to use the "that doesn't mean we won't one day find them" argument for the next 400 years and it won't change a thing. Even if there actually isn't a trace of WMD in Iraq, you could continue arguing that there "might be" until the end of time. That is how much faith I vest into that argument.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
2. I do understand that HE IS DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR HUMANITY AND FOR YOUR CHILDREN..
3. I do understand that the world will be safer for our children and their children knowing that Saddam or his kids will not build a huge army that some day could attack us with WMD.
4. I do understand that I support this country because we are the only ones trying to MAKE A POSATIVE DIFFERENCE...

Opinions, opinions, opinions....

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Stop labling me as someone who is blind to all this information. I am human you are human we all know whats going on... Its just how we react to things thats different..

I would rather not label you as blind, but all I have to label you by is the words that you post and the words you've posted---on this thread especially---lead me to see you as nothing less. You make broad generalizations, stereotype everyone that is different from you, and refuse to understand any opposing views. These are my observations and my own definition of blind happens to match these observations. You reread your first few posts on this thread and see if I'm off-base.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Its about doing the right things when you have the power to do them.

On this one point alone I agree with you. Although, if you read my post in a previous thread, you can see that my idea of "the right things when we have power to" differs from yours.

Yoooo Hoooo :hello:

Closing thread in 5...4...3...

Strife over politics gets old. Also gets argumentative. If i see any more degrading anyone in this thread I’m gonna have to send out a PM and lock'er down.

An example of degrading someone would be "your so blind that..." or talking in third person. I see that a LOT from people and it's just showing out in front of everyone. like your talking to the whole room about someone right here in front of you. We don't put other members here up on a pedestal in front of the room and point fingers.

Debates are great as long as they don't get into badgering someone's character, talking derogatory in third person, or anything that is argumentative. I only ask one thing of you guy's, respect each others opinions and form a response that is not evading the policies of CL nor trying to be coy about the response and issue a comeback that just "looks" like it doesn't break the no strife rule, but snakes around it. again, talking in third person is such an example.

If you give respect, but don't receive it then give it again. There are only two people that matter in that instance, the person who knows he answered with dignity, and the person with his hand on the thread button.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
When it was brought up that France didn't support us because they were supporting Iraq millitarily you two spun away from the question to blame the US for things we did or have done in the past instead of even for second thinking France could be worse that the US..

a) I am not a French National therefore I really do not care what France says or does. The United States is my country, my place of birth, and when I'm abroad I am a reflection of it and it is a reflection of me. That is why I feel strongly about our actions and how they affect our standing in the world community. France: no. USA: yes.

b) When no one is talking about France and you pull some fact about France out of left field, I will not respond to it if I agree it is wrong or bad. What's left to say where there is no argument to be made?

c) You are not guilt-free of the same tactic. When I posted a thread that crticised Bush, you immediately began pasting in long anti-Clinton articles, even pasting in Gray Davis articles! Now what is the relevance of that?! Also for every post I make directed at you, you probably address 10% of what I say and disregard the rest. Most of the time I just assume you concede in your silence.

SCLexus3.0-
How's the studying for the LSAT going?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lex400sc
a) I am not a French National therefore I really do not care what France says or does. The United States is my country, my place of birth, and when I'm abroad I am a reflection of it and it is a reflection of me. That is why I feel strongly about our actions and how they affect our standing in the world community. France: no. USA: yes.

Everything you have said makes it sound like France: yes USA: no... Read through your posts.. It just apears that you critisize this country at EVERY end and ONLY regard your love for this country when it comes into question directly..

b) When no one is talking about France and you pull some fact about France out of left field, I will not respond to it if I agree it is wrong or bad. What's left to say where there is no argument to be made?

its still a fact and you still ignore it and choose to find something wrong with us to defend that fact.

c) You are not guilt-free of the same tactic. When I posted a thread that crticised Bush, you immediately began pasting in long anti-Clinton articles, even pasting in Gray Davis articles! Now what is the relevance of that?! Also for every post I make directed at you, you probably address 10% of what I say and disregard the rest. Most of the time I just assume you concede in your silence.

Well. I thought we were talking about OUR country verses OTHER countries.. This point was made using the USA and FRANCE.. not Clinton and Bush... BTW did you know that it is customary for ex Presidents NOT to bash Current Presidents... Who do you suppose is doing that..

Originally posted by 93LexoGS300
SCLexus3.0-
How's the studying for the LSAT going?


I received my degree in Corporate Law about 5 years ago.

WHAT??????

I have a Degree in Law from UF and a Degree in Aeronautical Engineering from Embry Riddle.

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife
and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking
man with a huge knife comes around the corner and is
running at you while screaming obscenities.In your
hand is a Glock .40 and you are an expert shot. You
have mere seconds before he reaches you and your
family. What do you do?
____________


Liberal Answer:

Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!

Does the man look poor or oppressed?

Have I ever done anything to him that is inspiring him to attack?

Could we run away?

What does my wife think?

What about the kids?

Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock
the knife out of his hand?

What does the law say about this situation?

Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?

Does he definitely want to kill me or would he just be
content to wound me?

If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my
family get away while he was stabbing me?

This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with
some friends for a few days to try to come to a conclusion.

_________


Conservative Answer:

BANG!

________


Texan's Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
click... (sounds of clip being ejected and fresh clip
installed)

Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving,
what do you kids think?"

Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw it too..."


BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG!

Daughter: "Nice grouping Daddy!"

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
You're walking down a deserted street with your wife
and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking
man with a huge knife comes around the corner and is
running at you while screaming obscenities.In your
hand is a Glock .40 and you are an expert shot. You
have mere seconds before he reaches you and your
family. What do you do?
____________


Liberal Answer:

Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!

Does the man look poor or oppressed?

Have I ever done anything to him that is inspiring him to attack?

Could we run away?

What does my wife think?

What about the kids?

Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock
the knife out of his hand?

What does the law say about this situation?

Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?

Does he definitely want to kill me or would he just be
content to wound me?

If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my
family get away while he was stabbing me?

This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with
some friends for a few days to try to come to a conclusion.

_________


Conservative Answer:

BANG!

________


Texan's Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
click... (sounds of clip being ejected and fresh clip
installed)

Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving,
what do you kids think?"

Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw it too..."


BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG!

Daughter: "Nice grouping Daddy!"



Hell, yea!!!:cool: :cool:

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife
and two small children. Suddenly, a different looking
man with his hands in his pockets comes around the corner and is
running towards you while screaming in a different language. In your
hand is a Glock 22 and you are a paranoid conservative. You
have mere seconds before he reaches you and your
family. What do you do?
____________


Liberal Answer:

Well, it is better not to act on baseless assumptions than make a regrettable mistake out of paranoia.

_________


Conservative Answer:

He has a gun in his pocket, I have intel that proves it! *BANG!* <searches pockets> I haven't found a gun on him yet, but that doesn't mean I won't eventually find one. Either way it doesn't matter that he doesn't have a gun, he was different and bad and that is reason enough to shoot him. Check his wallet for oi---I mean cash.

________


Texan's Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
click... (sounds of clip being ejected and fresh clip
installed)

Demented Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving,
what do you kids think? I think that death is not a serious matter as long as it's not one of us!"

Demented Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw it too... Shoot first ask questions later!"

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG!

Demented Daughter: "Nice grouping Daddy! Killing is always the answer!"

I swing right on ALL issues EXCEPT issues religiously motivated. i.e. the right's view on abortion. Things like this though I don't care enough about to sway my vote, so I vote straight ticket republican.

My whole family is the same way, so I guess I was raised into it:)

Funny story about my sister being a conservative in L.A.

My sister moved to L.A. two summers ago to teach (she teaches elementary school). Anyways, this was prior to alot of the war stuff so she was always being asked by other teachers, etc. to go to peace rallies and things of that nature, and of course she always declined. So already their view of her was not too favorable, and the thing that sent it over the edge was this.

My sister was at lunch with a couple of other teachers from school, and there was this homeless guy asking all the people sitting outside eating for money to eat. My sister looks at him and says "is that a new pack of cigarettes?" and he says yes so she says "If I were as hungry as you claim to be I wouldn't be spending $4 on cigarettes, I would be spending it on food or a place to shower so I could get a job and buy my own food".

Anyways, after this the lunch abrubptly ended.. On the way out the homeless guy came back up to her and told her how mean she was. She moved back to the midwest a few months later.

Anyways, that is how my whole family is.

Here are a few things we think would be good ideas, that most people think we are nuts probably:

A. Mandatory government supplied birth control for women on welfare
B. Tax incentives for staying in shape.

-Ethan

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife
and two small children. Suddenly, a Muslim looking
man that matches the profile of a known terrorist that has killed several of his own countrymen and has the ability to kill several more people, with his hands on an AK47 comes around the corner and is
running towards you while screaming in a different language while wearing a shirt that shows a picture of the twin towers being crashed into by US Commercial planes. In your
hand is a Glock 22 and you are a logical person. You
have mere seconds before he reaches you and your
family. What do you do?

Liberal Answer:

Well this isn't enough information

Has he personally shot, gassed, or murdered anyone I know?

Is he going to shoot me first? because if he is I will yell at him and tell him if he does it again I will pass a resolution to stop him from doing it a 3rd time or maybe a 4th time.

Will he be satisfied with just 1 resolution or will I have to come up with 14 more so he can be happy too.

Maybe I can talk him into selling his AK47 and donating the money to the "Gay Rights to get married" campaign.

If I shoot him how will Governor Gray Davis buy the votes of him and his friends?

Maybe he will just pass by and shoot that other family that is closer to him.

I'm so confused, I need to protest and watch a rerun of Jerry Springer to see what he would do.

-----------------------------------------------

Conservative Answer:

BANG!

Originally posted by lex400sc

_________


Conservative Answer:

He has a gun in his pocket, I have intel that proves it! hmm If he has killed MILLIONS and you KNOW THAT FOR A FACT, and you ALSO have Intel THAT HE IS STILL KILLING PEOPLE or has hired People to Kill for him then *BANG!* <searches pockets> I haven't found a gun on him yet, but that doesn't mean I won't eventually find one. because he has killed millions with it and chemicals.. either way, the world is better of without him Either way it doesn't matter that he doesn't have a gun on him right now, he was a murderer and a bad person that should have been dead anyways and that is reason enough to shoot him. amen Check his wallet for a list of people he has killed





Strange how you ALWAYS change it so it sounds like the other guy is ALWAYS COMPLETELY INNOCENT!!

1. We KNOW that he has killed millions
2. We KNOW that he kills ANYONE in his country who questions him.
3. We KNOW that he is an aggressive dictator...
4. We KNOW he is evil...

Why didn't you add that to your description of this "different" man? Because to you it doesn't matter what they do IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT WE DO TO THEM no matter if it is right or wrong..

This is getting really old and I'm getting really bored, peace!...err war!

Originally posted by lex400sc
This is getting really old and I'm getting really bored, peace!...err war!

"skidddddddd" to avoid the question.....

See its really easy to attack me when you change the scenario up so it sounds like all we what to do is kill...

YOU SPUN THE POINT. CHANGED IT INTO SOMETHING THAT SUITED YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA AND THEN DODGED THE QUESTION....


The End.... NOW STOP BRINGING THIS THREAD BACK UP
:close:

I'm sure glad I don't encounter any of those scenarios on my street.

one good question is, was it a republican or a democrat, who spelled "non-partisan" in correctly on the poll at the top of this thread?

Originally posted by dpakman91
one good question is, was a republican or a democrat, who spelled "non-partisan" in correctly on the poll at the top of this thread?

I did I did!.. I spelled "non-partisan" wrong but you spelled in correctly incorrectly....FYI only.:D :egads: :agree:

You had to know the demo's of this site would put a higher percentage in the repub. bracket

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
... a Muslim looking man

2 things:

1. How does one "look" Muslim?
2. Why bring religion into this? News Flash: All Muslims aren't terrorists

Originally posted by lex400sc

Another thing I want to make sure you guys don't mistaken in the future is this: criticism and dislike for our leaders and politicians does not equate to criticism and dislike for the nation of the United States of America or the idea of the United States of America. Got it? I hope I don't have to repeat myself on this one again because I think it is a farely simple idea for you to digest. :)

AMEN:rockon:

Originally posted by fvellani
2 things:

1. How does one "look" Muslim?
2. Why bring religion into this? News Flash: All Muslims aren't terrorists

I do apologize, I meant Middle Eastern.. You are correct though. We all know most Muslims are not terrorist, but there are quite a few Muslim extremists that are.

Originally posted by apatel
AMEN:rockon:

I agree with what Lex400sc said in that paragraph.

I do not agree with bashing the Administration solely because it is not a left leaning Democrat Admin. Bashing the President on EVERYTHING he says is far different than criticizing the administration over key topics that you disagree with. I firmly believe that NO MATTER WHAT Bush does Lex400sc and others will find something wrong with it or try to blame it for something bad that happens. This is wrong when the only reason for doing so it party politics.

I have stated several times that Bush has done several things wrong, he is not perfect, and he does make mistakes. Just like every President past.

However, he has done many good things.. Including his handling of the economy.. For instance, Anyone watch the news today? The economy is go WAY up. 36% actually. But instead of looking at this positively Lex400sc would probably choose to find something bad going on and blame it on Bush. Like a Jobless Recovery (when infact jobs went up last month by 20,000+), incomes are also on the rise....

If people are going to continue to blame the administration for the past problems (some it may have caused), they should at least respect it when and as things get better. When Lex400sc say or does something I do not agree with, I say something about (as does he). When he says or does something I agree with, I tell him I agree with it. On the other hand, he is acting towards me just like he acts towards Bush, he would rather criticize EVERYTHING I say so he does not appear weak (or polite) and pick some part of a topic I might have said in the past or in another part of a response and start a whole new chain of criticism.

I do respect Bush because with everything that happened in 2001 (from 9-11, to Big Business Collapse, to a war in Afghanistan, or trying to fix a recession) he has done very well I think. Despite the War in Iraq (which I feel was warranted, but understandably some don't) we are still doing very well and the economy is on its way to a huge gain (even though the numbers to date show that we are in the middle of one right now).

Originally posted by khark
Do you mean like Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Diane Feinstein and many others in congress? Do you know that the richest members of the Senate and house are Democrats?
democratic house.



And not to mention all the SUPER-rich Democrats in Hollywood.

Are you flirting with me? :eek2:


HAHAH!! :thumbup:

I'll have to start breaking that line when somebody replies to my posts.

M.

As an Asian-American minority, I consider myself a Democrat. Most but not all AA politicians are democrat so I believe they will best serve the needs of the our relatively small AA communities. In fact about two thirds of registered AA voters are Dems. Right now AA have a small voice when it comes to US politics, but as we increase our numbers in the political arena and the general population we will have more say in local, state, and federal policies. If there was one thing I like about the Bush administration it's that he has the largest AA cabinet of any President. Bush definitely gets a :thumbup: for diversity, even though they say that's not the real reason.

Bush definitely gets a :thumbup: for diversity, even though they say that's not the real reason.

Could the real reason be that they are QUALIFIED?! Wow, what a novel idea.

of course they're qualified but I still think race played a part in the decision. no need for the sarcasm dude...

of course they're qualified but I still think race played a part in the decision. no need for the sarcasm dude...

It wasn't sarcasm, it was giving them credit where credit is deserved. I find it sad that when minorities don't get hired it's racism and that when they do get hired it's because of race. Not every case is that way and it wasn't like Bush just started to hire minorities when he became President. He did it in his businesses and his governorship long before he ever became President.

I feel that when people throw around the race card they diminish the accomplishments that these people have attained by bettering themselves, inappropriately.

It wasn't sarcasm, it was giving them credit where credit is deserved. I find it sad that when minorities don't get hired it's racism and that when they do get hired it's because of race. Not every case is that way and it wasn't like Bush just started to hire minorities when he became President. He did it in his businesses and his governorship long before he ever became President.

I feel that when people throw around the race card they diminish the accomplishments that these people have attained by bettering themselves, inappropriately.

point well taken

http://www.cap1sucks.com/WhiteHouse.jpg

I could relate to them this way.... :D

Because for every effect, there is a cause. I know you really don't care what causes the problems we face in our country and world because you obviously have the solution to everything already (without even knowing the problem), but some people are a bit more rational and want to have a discussion about what the problems are exactly. You've NEVER ever contributed any meaningful content to any of the political threads. If anyone here doubts that, just trace back all the political threads. All you do is make sweeping generalizations, pass judgments on everyone and everything, and pass off your opinions as facts. It really doesn't reflect well on you when you have such strong beliefs yet aren't quite sure what makes your beliefs valid or true.



No, I actually acknowledge the negatives about this country that I love very much. Your love for this country is blind and you believe that nothing that we've done could possibly be wrong because American politicians are perfect beings. No wait, actually the root of every problem in this world is due to liberals, even though you aren't quite sure how to explain this phenomenon. Love doesn't mean a damn thing when it is blind and ignorant like your "USA! USA!" type love. A flag on your house and a bumper sticker on your car doesn't make your patriotic. What makes you patriotic is the active effort you take to improve your country and its faults. But according to you this country is faultless and there is nothing to improve, so all there is left to do is blindfold yourself and jump up and down waving a flag.



It's called facts. I present facts. If it makes us sound bad, that's because it is bad. Should I deny the fact that the United States provided WMD to Saddam in the 1980's just because it "sounds bad"? Should I deny the fact that we really didn't care that Saddam used WMD on the Kurds at the time just because it "sounds bad"? I guess we should erase the fact of slavery from all our history books because it "sounds bad". I, like others, point out our mistakes in the hopes that we don't commit them ever again. When people say "history teaches us nothing" and "history repeats itself", it's because of people like you that deny that any fault or wrongdoing was ever taken on our behalf, and thus the same mistakes are committed because of your lack of awareness.



Indolence and apathy are expressions of love? I think worry and concern is a greater expression of love. I show my love every day by expressing unpopular opinions that do not benefit me in any way, but that just might raise an awareness about a real problem.



You totally misunderstand the freedoms of this country. The freedom of speech and protest were granted by our founding fathers not so you can curse at the driver that just cut you off on the freeway, the freedoms of speech and protest were granted so that dissent could emerge, which, believe it or not (!!!) is considered HEALTHY for DEMOCRACY! If there is criticism, one can address a flaw and then improve upon it. If there is dissent, you have a multipolarity of ideas and a diversity of opinions that work to build a better society. If there is just a society of proud, loving, arrogant suck-ups that refuse to believe any problem could ever exist in their ways, you develop a tyranny when those in power take advantage of such ignorance and bend the will of the people to their liking. This is exactly what came to be in Italy, Germany, and Japan during the 1930s. I'm not saying this is where we in the US are headed, I'm saying in your "perfect society" of "patriotic" citizens where no one bothers to monitor the centers of power, you create the perfect circumstance for fascism.

VERY well said. It's good to see some on here that have logical explanations for their views rather than fallacious arguments that aren't really relevant to anything.

:bigok: I am not even going to start in on this thread but 1SICK, that pic is friggin' FUNNY!!!!! :bigok:



Josh

Here are the good things and the bad thing about both parties.

Republican Good Things
1. Morally bound to do the right thing.
2. More prone to finding a solution to a problem rather than just critisizing the situation but not doing anything about.
3. More apt to understanding money (most republican make more than democrats and tend to have much higher educational backgrounds)
4. Tend to choose the side of whats morally and humanly right.
5. Looks at things as "What do the majority prefer" and not "what do the few hollywood actors prefer"
6. Do what they say their going to do. Example: President said we weren't going to war for oil. We haven't, or we would have the low oil prices right now. President said we must stop the threat before it become eminant. Liberals say "Why didn't we wait untill Iraq was an eminant threat".. Thats it, lets wait untill another 9-11 then attack.. Sorry, I don't think so.
7. Everyone (democrats and republicans) agreed that Iraq should have cooperated with us last year during the weapons inspections. Whe the deadline came and Iraq still hadn't followed through with the resolution (or all 19 of them) the democrats kept wanting to move the deadline. That makes us look weak and like we will do nothing. When it comes down to it, we are a much better world with Saddam out of power.

Republican Bad Things
1. Tend to not give the American people a clear understanding of whats going on.
2. Tend to be too faith driven and not enough diversity of thought
3. Do not understand that not everyone makes over $25,000.00 a year
4. Do not put enough diverse thought into plans before carrying them out.
5. Get over zelous at times.

-----------------------------

Democrat Good Things
1. Care amount alot of the minorities (and groups) that need assistance
2. Tend to care about the enviroment more than republicans
3. Tend to want to see lower income people get more money

Democrat bad Things
1. Blame EVERY problem on Republicans
2. Only disagree on issues because a republican might have come up with it.
3. Tend to make everyone problem sound like it started with Bush going into office and not relize that the economic recession started at the last part of Clintons term and that 9-11 didn't really help either.
4. Tend to justify the need for anything that any small group wants to complain about.
5. Tend to believe that people who pay NO TAXES should get money back from the people who pay all the taxes.

------------------------------

Something some of you might not know.
According to the presidents tax cut, more than 80% of the population that pays taxes will get a larger tax cut. Democrats would have you believe that only the weathly get the majority of the tax cuts. Well thats true if you consider what democrat call wealthy.

Democrats Scale of wealth (as reported by MSNBC)
Poverty Income: Less than $12,000 per year for a Family of 4
Low Income: More than $12,000 but less than $18,000 per year for a family of 4
*Average income: More than $18,000 per year but less than $35,000 for a family of 4
*High Income: More than $35,000 per year but less than $65,000 per year for a family of 4
*Wealthy Class: More than $65,000 per year but less than $92,000 per year
Ultra Wealthy class: $92,000+ per year for a family of 4

(* incates the income levels that would receive the largest tax break)

Now where do you fall in that???

Now tell me, do republicans only care about the weathly (if you think thats wealthy)


If you make less than 12k, you dont need a tax break, youre gonna get back more than you paid in to the FITW. In fact, a married couple with two children can make over 24k combined and still not have to pay FITW. 9700 for standard deduction, 12400 for 4 exemptions, 2000 child tax credit. Thats 24100 and your tax liability for federal is still 0. I didnt even include the EIC, Child care credit, retirement savings credit, and any other credits they might qualify for.

You shouldnt be penalized in this country just because you make more money. Whats the point of making more if you have to pay a larger % in taxes.

how many times do i have to repeat that one of these "freedoms" that you say men died to protect is the freedom to speak your mind. People speaking critically of our country isn't something that has happened recently, and it isn't something that only democrats do. Republicans and conservatives alike will complain to no end when a democrat is holding office. It goes both ways. Just because you speak negatively of things that this country has done does not mean you despise it. Why can't you see that? lex400sc doesn't hate this country, he hates the way that it's being led, like myself. Do you see a difference? Because if you don't, then I'm afraid your missing something huge.


Werent the original revolutionaries speaking critically of their governent when they decided to revolt and become the country that it is today?

If they just waved the British flag and rode around their horses with "I love England and the King", then we sure as heck wouldnt be drivng in a Lexus or typing on our computers.

If they just waved the British flag and rode around their horses with "I love England and the King", then we sure as heck wouldnt be drivng in a Lexus .

Well, maybe driving a Jag wouldn't be so bad...especially if they can get the reliability up. ;)

VOTE REPUBLICAN.

That why we can make money off the suffering of others.

VOTE DEMOCRATIC...................it sure beats working. ;)

VOTE DEMOCRATIC...................it sure beats working. ;)

lol that was a good one too.

Don't Vote at all.....then you can't complain about anything :sad:

VOTE DEMOCRATIC...................it sure beats working. ;)


I live in a state that is now a right to work state.

For the past four years of the great bill, zero, 0 big companies have come into this state.

That was the catcher for the then exiting Governer Frank Keating to get his one last bill through the door before his term was up.

He did, and he did it by riding the wave of ""Freedom in America"" crap that he said would happen if the bill past. Well, The Unions have absolutly no power at all to do anything.

I'm sure to get reemed for this one but think,

we already have business going on fine,

well lets just fcuk it up and distroy the unions ability to keep the company in Oklahoma from moving to Mexico.


So I guess that if you don't like what's going on.

Don't believe half the crap that is coming out of the Conservatives mouths.

Then we would all be silent and nobody could talk.

Great!!

Josh

I live in a state that is now a right to work state.

For the past four years of the great bill, zero, 0 big companies have come into this state.

That was the catcher for the then exiting Governer Frank Keating to get his one last bill through the door before his term was up.

He did, and he did it by riding the wave of ""Freedom in America"" crap that he said would happen if the bill past. Well, The Unions have absolutly no power at all to do anything.

I'm sure to get reemed for this one but think,

we already have business going on fine,

well lets just fcuk it up and distroy the unions ability to keep the company in Oklahoma from moving to Mexico.


So I guess that if you don't like what's going on.

Don't believe half the crap that is coming out of the Conservatives mouths.

Then we would all be silent and nobody could talk.

Great!!

Josh

Josh, you have to remember... Republicans love America, but they love the Dollar even more.

Josh, you have to remember... Republicans love America, but they love the Dollar even more.

And Democrats love America too, but they love spending other people's dollars even more. ;)

BUCK FUSH he lied and over 2000 service men died......

And Democrats love America too, but they love spending other people's dollars even more. ;)


Thats a funny thing to say considering the republicans are currently running the nations LARGEST debt in history... You may want to re-think what you said.

http://www.thefrown.com/player.php?/frowners/becomerepublican/

*edit - if you are republican and are easily offended dont watch that flash, Im only posting it as a joke :D I thought it was funny

Thats a funny thing to say considering the republicans are currently running the nations LARGEST debt in history... You may want to re-think what you said.

Numerically they may be the largest deficits, but not even close as a % of GDP. Apparently we're spending 1 billion a DAY :eek2: in Iraq, so if we weren't there the deficit would be all but wiped out.

BUCK FUSH he lied and over 2000 service men died......

And your proof that he actually lied is where again??? Oh, that's right, you don't have any. There is no conclusive proof that it was lying vs. bad intelligence. None. So, until you have some, everything you and all of the other left-wing radicals say on this issue is NILL.

drink300

How are Iraq and Al Qaeda the same?

According to Bush, they sure are. One of the reasons Bush gave for the war was to hunt down the "terrorists". Now when did Iraq attack the United States of America. I think that counts as a LIE...

As for the intelligence comment, I didn't expect Bush to point a finger at himself at all. Of course it's always somebody else's fault. Oops, our fault, sorry we killed 5,000 people. So it's better to be safe than sorry, you say? But that comes back to the question, what are the ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda? This isn't no humanitarian mission we are on in Iraq, nor is it even a mission against terrorists. Economics.

Whatever happens in this war, expect the fingers to be pointed elsewhere by the administration

How are Iraq and Al Qaeda the same?

According to Bush, they sure are. One of the reasons Bush gave for the war was to hunt down the "terrorists". Now when did Iraq attack the United States of America. I think that counts as a LIE...

As for the intelligence comment, I didn't expect Bush to point a finger at himself at all. Of course it's always somebody else's fault. Oops, our fault, sorry we killed 5,000 people. So it's better to be safe than sorry, you say? But that comes back to the question, what are the ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda? This isn't no humanitarian mission we are on in Iraq, nor is it even a mission against terrorists. Economics.

Whatever happens in this war, expect the fingers to be pointed elsewhere by the administration


this was my point as well. I dont have a problem with going to war and risking the lives of our men and women because it what they signed up to do if its a JUST cause. Honestly i dont really no why we are even there anymore. At first it was for weapons of mass destruction now its about terriorists. Wasnt it Bin Laden who attacked us? why are we in iraq and not looking for bin laden? i would think that with the amount of resources we have used we could have found him and destoryed al qaeda by now. Im sure the large majority of the country would not mind that move. It makes the this war on terror seem insignificant to me because bin laden is the terrorist but we just kinda turned our priorities elsewhere.

If we are really in iraq because we dont want them to make or use the "weapons of mass destruction" why arent we in iran or korea. cant these countries use those weapons on people? I used to think that the US wanted to be the police of the world but its not even that anymore. We want to help people in the world but only if that involves using our military and if its there is something in it for us. Otherwise we could be in countries like haiti or the many countries in africa or how about taking care of our fellow americans first.

I cant say that i love the united states but i can hate it either. It gave my parents the chance to make something of themselves with nothing. Thats why i dont mind paying taxes to help the less fortunate because my family was in that situation before and without government assistance we would not have made it to where we are today.

this was my point as well. I dont have a problem with going to war and risking the lives of our men and women because it what they signed up to do if its a JUST cause. Honestly i dont really no why we are even there anymore. Let's review a little, the concept of Just War. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1268671&postcount=20

At first it was for weapons of mass destruction now its about terriorists. Wasnt it Bin Laden who attacked us? why are we in iraq and not looking for bin laden? i would think that with the amount of resources we have used we could have found him and destoryed al qaeda by now. Im sure the large majority of the country would not mind that move. It makes the this war on terror seem insignificant to me because bin laden is the terrorist but we just kinda turned our priorities elsewhere.Our priorities have not changed. We pursue the practicioners of terrorism, small bands of individuals willing to die to produce death among innocent civilians that will be leveraged by a compliant press into worldwide headlines. This coverage is designed to create an atmosphere of terror far out of proportion to the numbers of innocents killed.

Terrorism is marked by the fact that it is planned by professionals, but carried out by rank amateurs. The perpetrators are most often social misfits, dropouts and losers that are suceptible to exhortation by terror leadership into giving their lives for a larger cause and thus becoming powerful men with meaningful lives. Sadly, they will be the first victims of terror.

The left and their willing supporters in the press have made much of the fact that with all of our power, Bin Laden is still at large. I would remind these hand-wringers that the task of locating and reaching the leader of a terror organization who survives by absolute loyalty of his followers, certain death of those who would inform on him, and a certain amount of folk-heroism among ignorant third-world supporters, will be long and difficult.

Castro survives, despite a number of black ops to eliminate or discredit him. Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot, despite many wartime attempts to assassinate them, survived. Even D.B. Cooper simply disappeared in the Pacific Northwest some 35 years ago, without a trace, despite being sought by every law-enforcement agency in the country. Political assassination is not as easy as Hollywood or your Playstation makes it look.

If we are really in iraq because we dont want them to make or use the "weapons of mass destruction" why arent we in iran or korea. cant these countries use those weapons on people? I used to think that the US wanted to be the police of the world but its not even that anymore. We want to help people in the world but only if that involves using our military and if its there is something in it for us. Otherwise we could be in countries like haiti or the many countries in africa or how about taking care of our fellow americans first. As noted above, the world is a much more complicated place than what you see on TV; all problems are not resolved in 47 minutes (plus commercials), and there is no "cheat" to give you unlimited powers, infinite lives, or impervious armor. There is also no "reset" button. This is life, and it is very real.

Not all countries share your altruism. Not everyone wants to "help people" as you would have them do. While that would be nice, I guess, it is a hugely simplistic view of geopolitics. If we poured aid into Haiti or Somolia, in three days every cent would be in the hands of a handful of warlords, and the people would still be starving. What is necessary FIRST is a stable, RESPONSIBLE government to administer the aid. That government needs staying power. We would prefer that it be popularly elected, otherwise the poor nation would simply be exchanging one dictator for a newer, wealthier one. The alternative is that we move in as a police force, take over the nation, and dole out the aid - making us an invader, a policeman, and a civil administrator. That is exactly the situation we are trying to avoid.

Why aren't we in Iran and Korea? First of all, it should be obvious that our military is NOT that big, we have to select and prioritize our targets. First, Iraq under Saddam was the most dangerous, being possessed of the world's FOURTH largest land army, WMD's and the proven willingness to use them. Saddam had used nerve agents and blister gases against selected Kurdish villages, and had in his possession the means to deliver them by conventioinal means throughout his region. Remember the Scuds fired into Israel? What really made him dangerous was his non-compliance with the peace agreements that followed Desert Storm, and his rejection of international weapons inspection. We had to assume he was hiding something. As it turned out, we gave him MONTHS of warnings, sufficient time to smuggle a couple truckloads of bombs and shells over the border to Syria and possibly Iran. We will probably hear from those "non-existant" WMDs in the future. Obviously Mr. Clinton believed they were real - he had a couple of salvos of Tomahawks fired into a compound of empty tents and an asprin factory in an attempt to destroy these weapons at the height of his impeachment proceedings. At least that was his excuse . . . I seem to remember his pleading "bad intelligence" too. :uh:

Iran is the next problem on the menu, sandwiched as it is between Iraq and Afghanistan. Lebanon is beginning to form a stable government and is looking westward for assistance in moving Syria out of the Bekaa Valley east of Beruit. With assistance from Lebanon (and possibly Israel on the West and the forces in place in Iraq (Turkey and Jordan will cower in place) Syria should fold like a house of cards, unless they can bring in the former Soviet states. There is FAR more to this operation than a simple takedown of Saddam's bloody little dictatorship.

In case you hadn't noticed, freedom and democracy are totally unknown in the Middle East. The US is a threat to every little tribal kingdom in the region - those with oil AND those without. By wresting control of the resources from the grubby paws of a few desert dictators, instead of building palaces with solid-gold water taps, and a stable of megabuck luxury cars, the people, yes the PEOPLE of the region you seem to care so much about, will have food, homes, clothing, healthcare, and an education. Wasn't that why your family came here, for opportunity?

I cant say that i love the united states but i can hate it either. It gave my parents the chance to make something of themselves with nothing. Thats why i dont mind paying taxes to help the less fortunate because my family was in that situation before and without government assistance we would not have made it to where we are today. That is a deeply sad statement. You cannot appreciate the nation that gave you and your family the opportunity to get an education, drive a luxury car, and have a disposable income that would make you a KING in over three quarters of the nations of the world. We don't ask your gratitude; although your parents are probably very grateful for the opportunity they have been given. That, plus their hard work, has given you a head start in life that THEIR parents probably couldn't dream of.

Rather than parrot the simplistic "talking points" of the left wing, take a hard look at history, both ours and that of our opponents. Dig into it -look for yourself at what's going on in the Middle East. If it were all about oil, why aren't we furiously pumping it out of Iraq and Kuwait? Why are we spending BILLIONS of dollars on water treatment plants, hospitals, and schools in Iraq. Why do we even bother to try to rebuild their power grid or their sanitation systems. Why do we even bother to work with them to create a freely-elected government?

I look around and thank God every day for putting me in this nation at this time in world history.

I respect your statements but i have to say that no matter what i have to say there is someone with a counter argument and visa versa.

Not all the American people are education and really knew what the real reason we were going into iraq for but our president called it the "war on terror" and i would like to re-establish my point that the iraq is not where the terrorists that killed thousand of our fellow americans are hiding out. Why is it not our priority to take out al queda. I mean they have a history of hate for the united states, the bombings of us embassy's for instance. Why is it that we do not hold the people who attack us responsible first, why are they not our first priorty because if we were to be attack again i highly doubt that it would have been iraq.

When hurricane katrina hit why was Wal-Mart delivering supplies before FEMA. Its situations like this makes me believe that the government cares more about using its military than helping its own people.

I dont want this to be a republican vs democratic arguement. I believe in what i believe in because of how i was raised and what i see daily in my life. No everyone grows up in a wealthy family, some people have to work for it but they do need help along the way and that should be our priority.

In case you hadn't noticed, freedom and democracy are totally unknown in the Middle East. The US is a threat to every little tribal kingdom in the region - those with oil AND those without. By wresting control of the resources from the grubby paws of a few desert dictators, instead of building palaces with solid-gold water taps, and a stable of megabuck luxury cars, the people, yes the PEOPLE of the region you seem to care so much about, will have food, homes, clothing, healthcare, and an education. Wasn't that why your family came here, for opportunity?

Freedom and Democracy are the talking points of the right-wing neo-cons as they con the nation into war in the middle east. What freedom ? What democracy ? Notice how we have not attacked or threatened to attack countries with the greatest form of dictatorships in the Middle East - Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, UAE, Qatar, etc... Rather, we are planning to attack the ones that we deem *bad guys* - Iran, Iraq & Syria. Did the US not take out a democratically elected govt in Iran - the government of Mosadeegh ? In Iran today, there was an election and the current President won a free and fair election. Is that not what democracy is about ? Unless the one we prefer wins, then its not !!!

In Palestine, the US pushed for election against advice from Israel. Hamas won, and now everyone is crying foul... Do you want democracy and freedom or is it just lip service ???

Rather than parrot the simplistic "talking points" of the left wing, take a hard look at history, both ours and that of our opponents. Dig into it -look for yourself at what's going on in the Middle East. If it were all about oil, why aren't we furiously pumping it out of Iraq and Kuwait? Why are we spending BILLIONS of dollars on water treatment plants, hospitals, and schools in Iraq. Why do we even bother to try to rebuild their power grid or their sanitation systems. Why do we even bother to work with them to create a freely-elected government?

I look around and thank God every day for putting me in this nation at this time in world history.

Look around some more and you'll find that what lurks underneath our financial system reeks. We are the greatest debtor nation on earth. The greatest debtor per person on earth. As individuals we are living way beyond our means. As a country, the govt is spending way beyond its coffers... Something has to give..... Someday ....

Freedom and Democracy are the talking points of the right-wing neo-cons as they con the nation into war in the middle east. What freedom ? What democracy ? Notice how we have not attacked or threatened to attack countries with the greatest form of dictatorships in the Middle East - Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, UAE, Qatar, etc... Rather, we are planning to attack the ones that we deem *bad guys* - Iran, Iraq & Syria. Did the US not take out a democratically elected govt in Iran - the government of Mosadeegh ? In Iran today, there was an election and the current President won a free and fair election. Is that not what democracy is about ? Unless the one we prefer wins, then its not !!!

In Palestine, the US pushed for election against advice from Israel. Hamas won, and now everyone is crying foul... Do you want democracy and freedom or is it just lip service ???There is only a single democracy in the Middle East - Israel . . .and even they do not elect the government we would choose for them. The remainder are tribal kingdoms artificially carved out of the region by well-meaning do-gooders after World War One. These kingdoms are ruled either as absolute monarchies or single-party dictatorships by individuals who remain in power by dint of their being able to purchase the loyalty of their subjects while keeping them ignorant, or by might of arms.

Iran, for example is a "Theocratic Republic" as listed by the CIA. Her Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Hoseini-Khahemni is the nominal supreme authority, a cleric, however the President, elected by roughly a 2/3 majority in June 2005 is Mahmud Ahmadi-Nejad, operates the bloated national government and is responsible for the governance of the nation. A parliament, consisting primarily of more Islamic clerics makes law, and it is administered by a clerical court, a "revolutionary" court, and an administrative court. under the supervision of a Supreme court Any resemblance to a democracy is completely coincidental.

Iran's economy is teetering on the brink for years. Heavily dependant on her oil wealth, and transshipment of heroin from Afghanistan into Europe, the nation's GDP is almost completely absorbed by her corrupt government. The nation, once ruled entirely by clerics, became the poster child for the failure of theocracies to rule. Thus far, a growing opposition among the intelligencia may move the nation back toward a more western-style democracy by the elections of 2009, so if the President is to make his move, it will be within the next two years.

Iran is unique among Islamic nations in that it once had a rather beneficent monarchy under the Shah. While no model of democracy, Iran was once a well-educated, modern, almost European nation under the Shah's regime. Despite an increasingly virulent secret police, the nation was calm, relatively affluent, and urbane.

Today's government, while better organized and competent, does not control the nation. Watch for President Ahmadi-Nejad to raise a cult following around his penchant for Fascism and lip service to the Islamic faith - creating a "Holy Nation" ordained by Allah to sweep the Mid-East in the name of their god. By focusing initially on the US and Israel, Ahmadi-Nejad will whip the crowds into a fury, but it remains to be seen if he can launch a successful military strike. He's just crazy enough to try it.

The other monarchies in the region are anything but democracies. Each is a tightly regulated nation with a small group of vastly wealthy family members at the top. If the British Monarchy is your model, this is more akin to the Mafia. Kings and princes, drowning in oil revenues, dribble a few riyals here and there to the peasants for sports stadiums, highways, hospitals, universities, and public works.

It's all for show, since the local nationals are literally paid not to work, the workers are all imported. Administrators are Indian, workers are Pakistani, and grunt laborers are Afghans. Engineers are American or European, and most service workers are Indonesian and Filipino. Conspicuous consumption is frowned upon, but behind high walls the incredibly lavish palaces and stately homes abound - out of sight of the ordinary citizen.

This is a two-class society, the royals and everyone else. Don't look for spontaneous change here. If you are an urban Saudi unfortunate enough to be born outside the royal family, you will be paid NOT to work, and can probably get by reasonably well on your "welfare" check. You probably won't want to derail this gravy train. In the desert, the Bedouin are not so concerned with the trappings of luxury, but they're learning fast. Kuwait and Bahrain are similar with most of their native population being connected to the royals, while down the coast, the Emirates, Oman, and Yemen are also similar, but with slightly larger native (non-royal) populations.

Contrary to the left's complaint that the US controls all, and the right's devout prayer that we do, we do not have that kind of influence. This region is a case in point. If it were up to us, we'd have everyone vote for their local and national leadership, but freedom and democracy are acquired tastes. If you've never had to make your own dec