http://www.voltairenetwork.net/article2.html

Are they saying a plane didn't hit the Pentagon?

Wow, that article paints a VERY frightening picture. Sounds plausible, I wonder if it can be disproven...

Originally posted by lex400sc
Wow, that article paints a VERY frightening picture. Sounds plausible, I wonder if it can be disproven...

You try to find EVERYTHING you can to support your agenda, not once have you defended this country AGAINST ANYTHING Negative said about it.. but you'll defend France ALL DAY LONG...

Heres an idea.. instead of trying to get someone that really loves this country to prove that we didn't do it, why don't you try to prove that we didn't do it if you love this country so much? Always looking to blame this country for EVERYTHING.. and now you believe we could have done this to ourselves......this is a sad day.

Almost seems like you want us to be proven wrong...

Wow. There sure is a lot of discounting of evidence and history revision in that article. It's no wonder the Arab world believes we are in the wrong. I guess Khalid is making all that stuff up about him and Osama planning the attacks. ;)

lex400sc I can bet your not going to try to find anything helpful, so I did some researching..

What about the fact that the remains of the passengers on Flight 77 were recovered from the wreckage at the Pentagon? What about the fact that both of Flight 77's black boxes were recovered from the wreckage? What about the fact that numerous witnesses specified that they saw a jetliner approach and/or hit the Pentagon? What about the fact that photos from that day show plane debris near the hole that the jetliner tore into the Pentagon? What about the fact that witnesses saw plane debris in the wreckage?

Fact 1 (http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html)
Fact 2 (http://www.centrexnews.com/columnists/skousen/2002/0308.html)
Fact 3 (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm)

Here, read all of the on one site..... (http://michaelgriffith1.tripod.com/refute.htm)

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Heres an idea.. instead of trying to get someone that really loves this country to prove that we didn't do it, why don't you try to prove that we didn't do it if you love this country so much?

Why don't you disprove it to me since you are the self-proclaimed model patriot? I'm not here to defend those that might be responsible for a great tragedy. I am not here to defend our leaders because it is not them I love. I read the article, it sounded on the surface very plausible. I'm not going to spend a hundred hours of effort disproving it for YOUR sake. Do that yourself.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Always looking to blame this country for EVERYTHING.. and how you believe we could have done this to ourselves......this is a sad day.

Who am I blaming here? Quote me on it. Quote me now or shut up with your accusations. I'm really sick of your crap. Quit putting words in my mouth and attaching opinions to my name. Justify everything you just said about me now, or never speak about it again. It's simple as that.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Almost seems like you want us to be proven wrong...

Us? Define us? If you want to align yourself with those in the government that change their story, withhold facts, and deny accountability, than yes. If you somehow think "us" equals the entire United States, people and all, then you really are ignorant. You can't even make a distinction between a nation's government, a nation's people, and a nation's ideas.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
lex400sc I can bet your not going to try to find anything helpful, so I did some researching..

What about the fact that the remains of the passengers on Flight 77 were recovered from the wreckage at the Pentagon? What about the fact that both of Flight 77's black boxes were recovered from the wreckage? What about the fact that numerous witnesses specified that they saw a jetliner approach and/or hit the Pentagon? What about the fact that photos from that day show plane debris near the hole that the jetliner tore into the Pentagon? What about the fact that witnesses saw plane debris in the wreckage?[/URL]

You most obviously did not read the article because it did not deny any of these "Facts". In fact it clarified every fact you just presented. I would like you to address those clarifications and disprove them. Your "facts" are otherwise meaningless in building an argument against it.

Originally posted by Vegassc400
Wow. There sure is a lot of discounting of evidence and history revision in that article.

Forgive my ignorance, please show me where history was revised in this article. I could not identify any. Also tell me where evidence was discounted. I think the article detailed the significance of the evidence provided.

I would very much like to believe you, but so far no one has provided me any substantial reasons as to why I should.

Now that you changed your post...

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
You try to find EVERYTHING you can to support your agenda

My agenda is quite simply the pursuit of truth. Yours is the denial of ugly truth and the acceptance of self-serving truth.


Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
not once have you defended this country AGAINST ANYTHING Negative said about it..

Have I ever bashed the United States? No, I consistantly bash the leadership of the United States. Do you know the difference? Do you know that there is a difference?

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
but you'll defend France ALL DAY LONG...

I do? Really? Since I do this "all day long", it shouldn't be very hard for you to find me a few examples, should it? This is you once again doing what you do best: putting words and opinions in my mouth :rolleyes:

Originally posted by lex400sc
Why don't you disprove it to me since you are the self-proclaimed model patriot? I'm not here to defend those that might be responsible for a great tragedy. I am not here to defend our leaders because it is not them I love. I read the article, it sounded on the surface very plausible. I'm not going to spend a hundred hours of effort disproving it for YOUR sake. Do that yourself.

I did disprove it, read the posts..Its crazy how you would assume our Government to do something like that before you would acknowledge a terrorist group doing it. It took me 5 minutes to disprove it!

Who am I blaming here? Quote me on it. Quote me now or shut up with your accusations. I'm really sick of your crap. Quit putting words in my mouth and attaching opinions to my name. Justify everything you just said about me now, or never speak about it again. It's simple as that.

Wow, that article paints a VERY frightening picture. Sounds plausible: (Seemingly or apparently valid, likely, or acceptable; credible: a plausible excuse.
), I wonder if it can be disproven... : Enough Said, a fact is a fact... I'm not putting words in your mouth.. Understand what you are saying before you say it

Us? Define us? If you want to align yourself with those in the government that change their story, withhold facts, and deny accountability, than yes. If you somehow think "us" equals the entire United States, people and all, then you really are ignorant. You can't even make a distinction between a nation's government, a nation's people, and a nation's ideas.

if you read EVERYTHING POSTED TO DISPUTE THAT ARTICLE then you wouldn't be aligning yourself with terrorists.

"Sounds plausible" means to you I'm aligned with terrorists? Where did terrorists come into play in the scope of this discussion? According to this article's theory, there are no foreign terrorists involved, only domestic terrorists, and if anything I'm opposing such terrorists.

"Plausible" means believable. I only read it over once quickly and on the surface, there were no flaws in the author's argument and it was very thoroughly stated. There were no inconsistancies I could point out immediately. Thus it sounds plausible or believable. FYI, everything I've said so far is considered an "observation", look that term up while you're at it. I am not of the same thinking as you. If I hear something that I don't like to hear, I will not discount or deny it on the sole basis that I don't want to believe it. I am open to any viewpoint that is plausible; I'm not selective in what I take into consideration. My search is for truth no matter how disturbing or unpleasant. I'm not interested in complacency or ignorance.

That said, you drew way too many assumptions from the two sentences I first posted. Maybe I should clarify more for you:

"Wow, that article paints a VERY frightening picture." - These are some disturbing revelations and ideas. This article presents some scary conclusions.


"Sounds plausible, I wonder if it can be disproven..." - Sounds solid to me so far, I wonder if anyone more informed than I can shed more light on the issue.

This article is a pretty good reading when you're taking a crap....
Notice how the author wrote:

"To give credence to the fable of Islamic terrorists, the United States authorities invented kamikazes"

Last time I check the Japaneses invented Kamakazes.... Read on:

THUNDER GODS AND KAMIKAZES
(http://www.wtj.com/articles/kamikaze/)

The existence of high-jackers, whether these or others, is confirmed by telephone calls made by several passengers to members of their families. Unfortunately, these conversations are known to us only by hearsay and have not been published, even in the case of those that were recorded. Thus, it has been impossible to verify that they were actually made from a particular cell phone of from a telephone on board. Here, too, we are asked to take the FBI at its word.

Taken from the original article. The phone conversations from passengers on the planes have been well documented and discussed at length, not by the FBI, but by the victims families. Discounting the evidence.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/23/mohammed/index.html

Wow. Look at that. A tasty tidbit left out of that report. Wonder why? More discounting the evidence.

I guess "revising history" was a bad choice of words.

The lone gunman with the magic bullet is "plausible" too but dismissed by people who know better.

Heres what YOU don't understand then:

You will type up a paragraph per every sentence someone says about this government you don't agree with explaining WHY you don't agree with it. Actually you disgree with EVERY SINGLE THING negative said about this government..

When someone posts the assumption that was posted, you only say "Sounds Plausible". Why didn't you do the SAME RESEARCH to try and find the facts? Instead you seem to want this accusation to be true. That is un-American. And in turn, that aligns you with terrorists who are trying to destroy our government and people.

The first thing you did was assume that article was accurate.

That is you having a personal agenda...

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Fact 1 (http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html)

This is a Perdue structural engineering simulation on how to build stronger buildings that can withstand such devastation. It has nothing to do with the ideas presented in the Arab League article.


Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Fact 2 (http://www.centrexnews.com/columnists/skousen/2002/0308.html)

This is an editorial piece (opinion and perspective) by some nutjob extremist. Visit his website. He has articles on "strategic living" and a 700-page manual on how to build and sustain a fallout compound.


Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Fact 3 (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm)

This site disproves specifically web-based conspiracy theories and some popular French book. It does not address the arguments presented in the Arab League article, which are very different.

Originally posted by chuckisc
This article is a pretty good reading when you're taking a crap....
Notice how the author wrote:

"To give credence to the fable of Islamic terrorists, the United States authorities invented kamikazes"

Last time I check the Japaneses invented Kamakazes.... Read on:

THUNDER GODS AND KAMIKAZES
(http://www.wtj.com/articles/kamikaze/)

I think you are misreading the use of "invent".


in·vent [ in vént ] (past in·vent·ed, past participle in·vent·ed, present participle in·vent·ing, 3rd person present singular in·vents)

transitive verb

2. make up: to make up something false, for example, a false excuse

It apears that the only thing you love about this country is your ability to Complain without getting in trouble for it. I'm sure you take advantage of everything that WARS have granted you.

Got a big house or apartment?
Got a nice car? (we know the answer to this)
Can you talk bad about this government without being taken outside and shot?


Would you fight for this country?
Would you Die for this country?
Would you die for ANYTHING in your life?

Regardless of what you answer, I think we know how you really feel.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
You will type up a paragraph per every sentence someone says about this government you don't agree with explaining WHY you don't agree with it. Actually you disgree with EVERY SINGLE THING negative said about this government..

I write at length on those issues because I am familiar with them. I yes I happen to agree with many criticisms of this government because they are putting our nation in a very precarious position. Do you consider critics of Gray Davis to be unpatriotic the same way you consider Bush critics to be unpatriotic? Or is it different for you because of the partisanship factor?

And actually what you often mistaken my criticisms for are actually my responses to yours and other people's over-statements of Bush's accomplishments, the misstating of their intentions, and the denial of the ugly facts. If you didn't make such outlandish statements, there wouldn't be much for me to say.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
When someone posts the assumption that was posted, you only say "Sounds Plausible". Why didn't you do the SAME RESEARCH to try and find the facts? Instead you seem to want this accusation to be true. That is un-American. And in turn, that aligns you with terrorists who are trying to destroy our government and people.

The reading of an article posted in the Lobby is not considered research. It's reading. It was not my intention today to research a Pentagon attack theory, nor is it now. I have never researched anything about the Pentagon attack, which is why I didn't have much to say about it other than an expression of shock.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
The first thing you did was assume that article was accurate.

You say I assumed it was accurate? I said "sounds plausible, I wonder if anyone can disprove it". Does that to you sound like I am making a bold assertion or voicing adamant support for it? You're digging yourself into a hole. You made another false assumption about me, posted too quick, and now you're splitting hairs just to make yourself sound less wrong.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
It apears that the only thing you love about this country is your ability to Complain without getting in trouble for it. I'm sure you take advantage of everything that WARS have granted you.

Got a big house or apartment?
Got a nice car? (we know the answer to this)
Can you talk bad about this government without being taken outside and shot?


Would you fight for this country?
Would you Die for this country?
Would you die for ANYTHING in your life?

Regardless of what you answer, I think we know how you really feel.

Again you like to put opinions and words into my mouth by posing loaded questions to me and answering them for me. :rolleyes:

I didn't read the referenced material, but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I was working in a Government office building about a mile from the Pentagon on 9/11 and actually saw the airplane flying low and slow up Columbia Pike toward the Pentagon (Columbia Pike starts at the South Parking Lot of the Pentagon).

So, you've got a CL Member who's an eye-witness.

Originally posted by lex400sc
I think you are misreading the use of "invent".


in·vent [ in vént ] (past in·vent·ed, past participle in·vent·ed, present participle in·vent·ing, 3rd person present singular in·vents)

transitive verb

2. make up: to make up something false, for example, a false excuse

Thanks man, learned new thing everyday!

Originally posted by bob2200
I didn't read the referenced material, but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I was working in a Government office building about a mile from the Pentagon on 9/11 and actually saw the airplane flying low and slow up Columbia Pike toward the Pentagon (Columbia Pike starts at the South Parking Lot of the Pentagon).

So, you've got a CL Member who's an eye-witness.

I am sorry you had to see that though..:(

That article is pure B.S. I'd like to congratulate the cow that produced such a whopper.

Why doesn't the author of this article go to the family members of the "alleged" victims and ask them where their relatives are hiding.

QUOTE]We present below a transcript of the presentation given by Thierry Meyssan on 8 April 2002 at the Zayed Center in Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates), at a gathering organized under the auspices Arab League and attended by the diplomatic corps and the international press corps. This presentation was followed by questions and answers, which are in the process of being transcribed and translated.[/QUOTE]

Quote from the top of the article. BTW, check the date. More than just a little old. I missed this the first time I read it.

Actually, that article is on a report done by the Arab League. The article is not biased one way or the other. The people (Arab League) doing the report did alot of speculating and twisting trying to reduce blame on Arabs and specifically Al Queda.(That's me speculating now)

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Heres an idea.. instead of trying to get someone that really loves this country to prove that we didn't do it, why don't you try to prove that we didn't do it if you love this country so much?

See the big picture. Nobody likes United States especially those Arab countries. Why? You know why. I don't have to give you any history lesson for it.