Just thought I would enlighten us all once again as to the fine (NOT!!!) man we call Mr. President Bush.
As so elequantly stated by an associate of mine: Originally posted by fotodad

A very brief (all that we know so far) description/character summarization of George W. Bush Jr.....

KING GEORGE II (I added the "King" and "II" part)- MY RESUME

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

I ran for congress and lost.

I bought an oil company (Harken), but couldn't find any oil in Texas; the company went bankrupt shortly AFTER I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:

I eased pollution laws and made Texas the most polluted state in the US.

On my watch Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog ridden city in America.

I became President, after losing the popular vote by over half a million votes, with the help of my father's Supreme Court appointees.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I attacked and took over two countries, both of which have virtually no restored infrastructure and are in chaos.

I spent the budget surplus.

I set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

I set the record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any US president.

After taking the entire month of August, 2001 off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history in September.

I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips than any other US president. And I'm still not done!

I take a strong stand against affirmative action even though I got into Yale only through my family connections, not on the merit of my academic record.

During my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs.

I set the record for the fewest number of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.

I very recently cut healthcare benefits for war veterans. As a matter of fact, I did this after we attacked Iraq. But I still like
to tell everyone else to "Support Our Troops."

I set the all-time record for most people worldwide (15 million people) to simultaneously take to the streets in protest of me and my obsession with attacking Iraq.

I have retreated from or dismissed more international treaties than any president in US history.

My presidency is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the wealthiest of any administration in US history. (The 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her).

I am the first president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

On my watch, and for the first time in US history, the United Nations removed the US from its Human Rights Commission.

On my watch, and for the first time in US history, the United Nations removed the US from its elections monitoring board.

I withdrew the US from the World Court of Law.

I have refused to allow international inspectors access to US prisoners of war and, therefore no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

One of my biggest lifetime campaign contributors, who is also a very good friend, presided over one of the largest ever corporate fraud scandals (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

During a time of economic hardship for the lower and middle class, and during a time of huge war spending to finance the attack of Iraq, I signed into to law a multi-billion dollar tax cut which primarily
benefits only the wealthiest Americans like me, my appointees, and my campaign contributors.

Therefore I have shattered the record for biggest annual deficit in history.

In approximately 18 months I have turned an astounding amount of world sympathy for the US (after 9/11) into an astounding amount of resentment and hatred.

With a policy of 'disengagement', I have created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

As a result of my foreign relations savvy, 71% of recently polled Europeans view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

As a result of my foreign relations savvy, recently polled South Koreans feel more threatened by the US than by North Korea.

I set the record for the number of administration appointees who violated US law by not divesting from corporations bidding for government contracts.


I have failed to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, even though their alleged existence was my sole basis for the "urgent" need to attack that country before UN arms inspectors could complete
their work.

In the months following the 9/11 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security/intelligence failure in the history of the United States.

I appointed a former lumber industry lobbyist to a post in the Environmental Protection Agency.

I appointed a former auto industry executive to a post on my Energy Commission.

I called hundreds of thousands of anti-war protesters "nothing but a focus group."

My Attorney General John Ashcroft (whom I appointed to this very important national position after he lost a Missouri senatorial race to a deceased man) has removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other Attorney General in US history. And he's not finished yet!

When I entered office we had the strongest economy in US history and
now every single economic category is
heading straight down.

I have done more to defile the words Patriot and Patriotism than any president in US history.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (My Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).

I was AWOL from the National Guard during the Vietnam War.

I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about my past drug use.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading(remember Harken?) or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy
and unavailable for public view.

All minutes of meetings for any public corporation for which I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

Any records from meetings I or my VP, (a former Halliburton Oil Company CEO) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

How are some of these substantiated? I don't know. But, as a wise member of this forum stated, there's truth in humor.


W T F!!! That just about sums it up! :thumbdn:
Let's please NOT make the same mistake twice peolple.... :egads:

:thumbup:

Ok, so what would you do differently. I mean, its not like there are no people plotting to kill the prez everyday. Its not like the prez lives under harsher public scrutiny than anyone in the world. No pressure man, its a cake walk!

Jesus Christ!! When you line up all the facts like that, Bush can really be called nothing short of scum! Thanks for the reality check TXSTYLE! http://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

And you forgot:

"I had sex in the oval office with an intern while in married with a child.. Then I passed a law that would allow victims of sex crimes to protect themselves, THEN I broke my very own law that I passed and used it against her in court....."

"I promised the American People I would lower taxes while in office, when secretively I Lied and Raised taxes 5 times over my terms"

"I Hate the military, but chose to send them to MORE MILLITARY CONFICTS than ANY other President in our countries History"

"I pardoned several inmates because I CAN!! and YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORI-TIE!!!!"

oh wait. That’s a Different President.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
And you forgot:

"I had sex in the oval office with an intern while in married with a child.. Then I passed a law that would allow victims of sex crimes to protect themselves, THEN I broke my very own law that I passed and used it against her in court....."

"I promised the American People I would lower taxes while in office, when secretively I Lied and Raised taxes 5 times over my terms"

"I Hate the military, but chose to send them to MORE MILLITARY CONFICTS than ANY other President in our countries History"

"I pardoned several inmates because I CAN!! and YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORI-TIE!!!!"

oh wait. That’s a Different President.

I think we'll be hard pressed to EVER find "The One" to lead our Nation flawlessly SCLexus3.0. But when you lay your stat sheet of Bill up against mine above of Dubya............http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/edoom/theyareontome.gif

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
And you forgot:

"I had sex in the oval office with an intern while in married with a child.. Then I passed a law that would allow victims of sex crimes to protect themselves, THEN I broke my very own law that I passed and used it against her in court....."

"I promised the American People I would lower taxes while in office, when secretively I Lied and Raised taxes 5 times over my terms"

"I Hate the military, but chose to send them to MORE MILLITARY CONFICTS than ANY other President in our countries History"

"I pardoned several inmates because I CAN!! and YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORI-TIE!!!!"

oh wait. That’s a Different President.

The "lesser of two evils" argument only works when your guy is the less evil one, LOL http://www.intellexual.net/cl/laughoutloud.gif

why don't we choose a more appropriate forum for this ;)

Moved

Originally posted by TXSTYLE
I think will be hard pressed to EVER find "The One" to lead our Nation flawlessly SCLexus3.0. But when you lay your stat sheet of Bill up against mine above of Dubya............http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/edoom/theyareontome.gif

Clinton Scandals: Over 200 (http://www.newsmax.com/hottopics/Clinton_Scandals.shtml)

Here is a list to compair against yours


Clinton Resume


ADMINISTRATION RECORDS SET
- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad



HISTORICAL CONTEXT
- Number of independent counsel inquiries since the 1978 law was passed: 19
- Number that have produced indictments: 7
- Number that produced more convictions than the Starr investigation: 1
- Median length of investigations that have led to convictions: 44 months
- Length of Starr-Ray investigation (7/00): 67 months.
- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions to date (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 15
- Median cost per Starr investigation conviction: $3.5 million as of 3/00
- Total cost of the Starr investigation (3/00) $52 million
- Total cost of the Iran-Contra investigation: $48.5 million
- Total cost to taxpayers of the Madison Guarantee failure: $73 million
- Number of Clinton cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5
- Number of Reagan cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 4
- Number of top officials jailed in the Teapot Dome Scandal: 3


CRIME STATS
- Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47
- Number of these convictions during Clinton's presidency: 33
- Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
- Number of imprisonments: 14
- Number of congressional witnesses who have pled the 5th Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 124


CAMPAIGN FINANCE INVESTIGATION
- As of June 2000, the Justice Department listed 25 people indicted and 19 convicted because of the 1996 Clinton-Gore fundraising scandals.
- According to the House Committee on Government Reform in September 2000, 79 House and Senate witnesses asserted the Fifth Amendment in the course of investigations into Gore's last fundraising campaign. [These figures are included in the larger figures elsewhere].
-James Riady entered a plea agreement to pay an $8.5 million fine for campaign finance crimes. This was a record under campaign finance laws.


STARR INVESTIGATION


- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions or guilty pleas to date (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 15
- Number of Clinton Cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5
- Number of Reagan cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 4
- Number of top officials jailed in the Teapot Dome Scandal: 3


SMALTZ INVESTIGATION
- Guilty pleas and convictions obtained by Donald Smaltz in cases involving charges of bribery and fraud against former Agriculture Secretary Espy and associated individuals and businesses: 15
- Acquitted or overturned cases (including Espy): 6
- Fines and penalties assessed: $11.5 million
- Cost of investigation: $22.2 million through 9/99
- Amount Tyson Food paid in fines and court costs: $6 million
- Amount Tyson Food still has in annual government contracts: $200 million
- Reasons individuals other than Espy were convicted or pled guilty: Concealing knowledge of gifts to Espy and his girlfriend (1), providing illegal gratuities to Espy(4), illegally supplementing the salary of a government official (2), concealing receipt of illegal funds on behalf of Espy (1) (Espy's chief of staff sentenced to prison in this case)


CRIMES FOR WHICH CONVICTIONS HAVE BEEN OBTAINED
Drug trafficking (3), racketeering, extortion, bribery(4), tax evasion, kickbacks, embezzlement (2), fraud (12), conspiracy (5), fraudulent loans, illegal gifts(1), illegal campaign contributions(5), money laundering (6)


POSSIBLE CRIMES AND SUSPICIOUS MATTERS INVESTIGATED BY SPECIAL PROSECUTORS, CONGRESS,
AND/OR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTERS
Bank and mail fraud, violations of campaign finance laws, illegal foreign campaign funding, improper exports of sensitive technology, physical violence and threats of violence, solicitation of perjury, intimidation of witnesses, bribery of witnesses, attempted intimidation of prosecutors, perjury before congressional committees, lying in statements to federal investigators and regulatory officials, flight of witnesses, obstruction of justice, bribery of cabinet members, real estate fraud, tax fraud, drug trafficking, failure to investigate drug trafficking, bribery of state officials, use of state police for personal purposes, exchange of promotions or benefits for sexual favors, using state police to provide false court testimony, laundering of drug money through a state agency, false reports by medical examiners and others investigating suspicious deaths, the firing of the RTC and FBI director when these agencies were investigating Clinton and his associates, failure to conduct autopsies in suspicious deaths, providing jobs in return for silence by witnesses, drug abuse, illegal acquisition and use of 900 FBI files, illegal futures trading, murder, sexual abuse of employees, false testimony before a federal judge, shredding of documents, withholding and concealment of subpoenaed documents, fabricated charges against (and improper firing of) White House employees, as well as providing access to the White House to drug traffickers, foreign agents and participants in organized crime.


UNEXPLAINED PHENOMENA
- FBI files misappropriated by the White House: c. 900
- Estimated number of witnesses quoted in FBI files misappropriated by the White House: 18,000
- Number of witnesses who developed medical problems at critical points in Clinton scandals investigation (Tucker, Hale, both McDougals, Lindsey): 5
- Problem areas listed in a memo by Clinton's own lawyer in preparation for the president's defense: 40
- Number of witnesses and critics of Clinton subjected to IRS audit: 45
- Number of names placed in a White House secret database without the knowledge of those named: c. 200,000
- Number of persons involved with Clinton who have been beaten up: 2
- Number of women involved with Clinton who claim to have been physically threatened (Sally Perdue, Gennifer Flowers, Kathleen Willey, Linda Tripp, Elizabeth Ward Gracen): 5
- Number of men involved in the Clinton scandals who have been beaten up or claimed to have been intimidated: 10


ARKANSAS SUDDEN DEATH SYNDROME
- Number of persons in the Clinton machine orbit who are alleged to have committed suicide: 9
- Number known to have been murdered: 12
- Number who died in plane crashes: 6
- Number who died in single car automobile accidents: 3
- Number killed during Waco massacre: 4
- Number of one-person sking fatalities: 1
- Number of key witnesses who have died of heart attacks while in federal custody under questionable circumstances: 1
- Number of medications being taken by Jim McDougal at the time he was placed in solitary confinement shortly before his death: 12
- Number of unexplained deaths: 4
- Total suspicious deaths: 46
- Number of northern Mafia killings during peak years of 1968-78: 30
- Number of Dixie Mafia killings during same period: 156


ARKANSAS ALZHEIMER'S
- Number of times Hillary Clinton said "I don't recall" or its equivalent in a statement to a House investigating committee: 50
- Number of paragraphs in this statement: 42
- Number of times Bill Clinton said "I don't recall" or its equivalent in the released portions of the his testimony on Paula Jones: 271
- Total number of facts or events not recalled before official bodies by Bill Kennedy, Harold Ickes, Ricki Seidman, Bruce Lindsey, Bill Burton, Mark Gearan, Mack McLarty, Neil Eggleston, John Podesta, Jennifer O'Connor, Dwight Holton, Patsy Thomasson, Jeff Eller, Beth Nolan, Cliff Sloan, Bernard Nussbaum, George Stephanopoulous, Roy Neel, Rahm Emanuel, Maggie Williams, David Tarbell, Susan Thomases, Webster Hubbell, Roger Altman, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton: 6,125
- Average occurrence of memory lapse by top administration figures while before official bodies: 235


ARKANSAS MONEY MANAGEMENT
- Amount of an alleged electronic transfer from the Arkansas Development Financial Authority to a bank in the Cayman Islands during 1980s: $50 million
- Grand Cayman's population: 18,000
- Number of commercial banks: 570
- Number of bank regulators: 1
- Amount Arkansas state pension fund invested in high-risk repos in the mid-80s in one purchase in April 1985: $52 million through the Worthen Bank.
- Number of days thereafter that the state's brokerage firm went belly up: 3
- Amount Arkansas pension fund dropped overnight as a result: 15%
- Percent of Worthen bank that Mochtar Riady bought over the next four months to bail out the bank and the then governor, Bill Clinton: 40%.
- Percent of purchasers from the Clintons and McDougals of resort lots who lost the land because of the sleazy financing provisions: over 50%


THE MEDIA
- Number of journalists covering Whitewater who have been fired, transferred off the beat, resigned or otherwise gotten into trouble because of their work on the scandals (Doug Frantz, Jim Wooten, Richard Behar, Christopher Ruddy, Michael Isikoff, David Eisenstadt, Yinh Chan, Jonathan Broder, James R. Norman, Zoh Hieronimus): 10


FRIENDS OF BILL
- Number of times John Huang took the 5th Amendment in answer to questions during a Judicial Watch deposition: 1,000
- Visits made to the White House by investigation subjects Johnny Chung, James Riady, John Huang, and Charlie Trie. 160
- Number of campaign contributors who got overnights at the White House in the two years before the 1996 election: 577
- Number of members of Thomas Boggs's law firm who have held top positions in the Clinton administration. 18
- Number of times John Huang was briefed by CIA: 37
- Number of calls Huang made from Commerce Department to Lippo banks: 261
- Number of intelligence reports Huang read while at Commerce: 500


POLITICAL FALL-OUT
- According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, Democrats held a 1,542 seat lead in the state bodies in 1990. As of November 2000 that lead had shrunk to 288. That's a loss of over 1,200 state legislative seats, nearly all of them under Clinton. Across the US, the Democrats controlled only 65 more state senate seats than the Republicans.


Further, in 1992, the Democrats controlled 17 more state legislatures than the Republicans. After November, the Republicans control one more than the Democrats. Not only was this a loss of 9 legislatures under Clinton, but it was the first time since 1954 that the GOP had controlled more state legislatures than the Democrats (they tied in 1968).


Here's what happened to the Democrats under Clinton:


- GOP seats gained in House since Clinton became president: 48
- GOP seats gained in Senate since Clinton became president: 8
- GOP governorships gained since Clinton became president: 11
- GOP state legislative seats gained since Clinton became president: 1,254
as of 1998
- State legislatures taken over by GOP since Clinton became president: 9
- Democrat officeholders who have become Republicans since Clinton became
president: 439 as of 1998
- Republican officeholders who have become Democrats since Clinton became president: 3


The Media's Influence:

43% of the public said the press "plays the most influential role in determining which issues and events are considered important these days."
22% said "political leaders in Washington."
Source: Times Mirror Center for the People and the Press, February 1994 survey of 1,207 people.

55% of journalists at national media outlets thought George Bush's 1992 campaign was "hurt" by "the way the press has covered him."
11% thought Bill Clinton was hurt.
Source: Times Mirror Center for the People & the Press,1992 poll of 267 staffers at national press organizations.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White House reporters vote Democratic:

9 White House correspondents surveyed voted for Clinton in 1992; 2 for George Bush
12 for Michael Dukakis in 1988; one for Bush
10 for Walter Mondale in 1984; zero for Ronald Reagan
8 for Jimmy Carter in 1980; two for Reagan
Source: U.S. News & World Report White House reporter Kenneth Walsh in a personal survey for his 1996 book, Feeding the Beast.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reporters voted overwhelmingly for Clinton, call themselves liberal and had little respect for the Contract with America:

89% of Washington reporters voted for Bill Clinton in 1992.
7% voted for George Bush in 1992.
61% called themselves "liberal" or "moderate to liberal."
9% "conservative" or "moderate to conservative."
50% said they are Democrats.
4% are Republicans.
59% called the Contract with America "an election year campaign ploy."
3% thought it was "a serious reform proposal."
Source: Roper Center poll for the Freedom Forum of 139 Washington bureau chiefs and congressional correspondents, released April 1996.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Journalists don't think the GOP Congress got negative treatment, and believe Clinton's achievements deserved more attention:

81% of reporters didn't think coverage of the Republican Congress has been "too cynical, too negative and has nitpicked too much."
19% agreed.
48% of national media reporters believed the media have "given too little" coverage to "the achievements of the Clinton administration."
2% said too much.
49% thought about right.

Try and Begin to put your stat sheet of Clinton against mine in the link.:argue:

You forgot (at least) one TX.

While gov. of TX, I presided over more executions in a given year than in any other state.

I agree with what TXStyle said, you'll be hard pressed to find the perfect leader.

I'm starting to take a less serious view when seeing threads like this. The Republicans had their time to criticize Clinton, now it's the Democrats' turn to criticize Bush.

Originally posted by 93LexoGS300
I agree with what TXStyle said, you'll be hard pressed to find the perfect leader.

I'm starting to take a less serious view when seeing threads like this. The Republicans had their time to criticize Clinton, now it's the Democrats' turn to criticize Bush.

You are absolutely correct.. Bush is Nothing near perfect.. I will be the first to say that. But nobody is. The thing I admire about Bush is that he does what he says hes going to do (outside of being a fortune teller). Nobody can plan everything and forsee everything. He has made some huge mistakes and we all know this. But at the same time, he is doing what any good President would do. He is doing what he said he would do. How fair is it to us if he broke his promises when he said he would lower taxes before 9-11. He said he was going to hunt out terrorists and those who seek to harbour terrorists. So far he has done that. HE IS NOT PERFECT though. Lots of Troops have died, Many people are struggling, a lot of other things are going on in the world as well, he chose to act where nobody else would, and do what other countries would never do because of the same reasons he is getting blasted daily.

The thing that gets me about Clinton is that he always want to Bash ANYTHING Bush does. on the other hand, you would have NEVER heard Bush Sr. or any other Former Republican President Bashing Clinton even during his most exposed times. Even during the campaining.

I support our President because he is doing what has to be done. If you only care about your life then you shouldn't support him, but if you care about the lives of your family and their families and your children then you should be supportive of this very great President.

Originally posted by 93LexoGS300
I agree with what TXStyle said, you'll be hard pressed to find the perfect leader.

I'm starting to take a less serious view when seeing threads like this. The Republicans had their time to criticize Clinton, now it's the Democrats' turn to criticize Bush.

I agree, people aren't perfect. Criticism is the path to improvement. Now on the flipside, criticizing the critics on the sole grounds of being critics is just foolish. Resorting to childish branding, labelling, and namecalling of critics is just childish. I'm happy to hear that you understand this. That is more that can be said for others on the forum.

I take no discomfort in the criticism of Clinton, in fact I frequently criticize him myself. However, the main difference between Clinton and Bush are that Clinton's flaws were largely personality and character flaws. Bush's flaws are largely policy flaws, compotence flaws, as well as diplomacy flaws (which I guess is also his personality flaw, or just plain arrogance). You may notice that I don't criticize Clinton much anymore, for the same reason I don't criticize Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, and Nixon. None of them are presidents. In other words: Who cares!

I just don't understand why others on this forum can't stop to listen to criticism about Bush once in a while without seeing it as a giant contest to see which side can fling the most dirt. Who honestly cares about Clinton? He's gone! He's history! He's behind us! Move on! (and this is not directed at you 93LexoGS300)


and PS: SCLexus3.0, Newsmax is a very very very poor source of information. It's a far right-wing agenda pusher. They are known to twist the truth, so I wouldn't invest too much faith in their word. I notice that Newsmax is the most common source of information you link http://www.intellexual.net/cl/nonod.gif

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Here is a list to compair against yours

[b]Clinton Resume

ADMINISTRATION RECORDS SET

.....

Try and Begin to put your stat sheet of Clinton against mine in the link.:argue:

I'm sure it took you a long time to compile that nice list of whatever I didn't read, but you need to stop living in the 1990s. Clinton is not the president, there is no purpose in criticizing someone that doesn't matter anymore because no matter how much you whine, he isn't the leader and criticizing him won't change anything. So move on already! And besides that, your post is horribly...

http://www.intellexual.net/cl/offtopic.gif

Originally posted by lex400sc
I'm sure it took you a long time to compile that nice list of whatever I didn't read, but you need to stop living in the 1990s. Clinton is not the president, there is no purpose in criticizing someone that doesn't matter anymore because no matter how much you whine, he isn't the leader and criticizing him won't change anything. So move on already! And besides that, your post is horribly...

http://www.intellexual.net/cl/offtopic.gif

You never know, our paychecks might have to worry about another clinton in the next few years, so criticize away, would hate for people to forget. Not to mention, by the time she is runnning for office, I plan on being the wealth that they want to support the rest of the US, can't have that happening

Originally posted by SDuquette
You never know, our paychecks might have to worry about another clinton in the next few years....

Uh, lets hope so :D

He's not the Pres R'now but if your main concern is money then you'd be better off with another Clinton...I know that I would like a few more years ;)

Originally posted by lex400sc
I'm sure it took you a long time to compile that nice list of whatever I didn't read, but you need to stop living in the 1990s. Clinton is not the president, there is no purpose in criticizing someone that doesn't matter anymore because no matter how much you whine, he isn't the leader and criticizing him won't change anything. So move on already! And besides that, your post is horribly...

http://www.intellexual.net/cl/offtopic.gif


So VERY true............:thumbup:

I forgot, how many Presidents are perfect? oh yeah, NONE.. EVER..

Some of crap on that stat sheet is Clintons Fault.. Thats why.. If you are going to post a list of things that Happend during Bush's Admin, at least post where they started. CLINTON!

I spent the budget surplus.
<That was in the process of GOING AWAY at the end of Clinton's Term because of Clinton>

I set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
<I forgot it was Bush's fault that Enron had a huge Scandle and so did so many other companies>

I set the record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
<I believe that was largly in part to Clintons Last Term, 9-11, and the Scandles of companies>


In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any US president.
<If thats what you want to call it. Its not vacation just because your out of the White House. GOSH>

After taking the entire month of August, 2001 off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history in September.
<Clintons Intelligence failure>

At least 50% of them are this way.

He was handed the keys to a Lexus and now its a broke down GW. ( I mean VW :D )

The way I see it:

Being the head of my company, I take responsibility for it........Period.

Good or Bad, I shoulder the weight of my company (and the 2 companies we've recently purchased) ..It's all on me now, not the previous owners.

The day I start making excuses (or have someone make excuses 4 me) for their downfall... is the day I need to leave my position.

All of this Bill Clinton talk is really getting old.... time to stand up and stop using the Clinton crutch :egads:

Originally posted by Emerald
He was handed the keys to a Lexus and now its a broke down GW. ( I mean VW :D )

The way I see it:

Being the head of my company, I take responsibility for it........Period.

Good or Bad, I shoulder the weight of my company (and the 2 companies we've recently purchased) ..It's all on me now, not the previous owners.

The day I start making excuses (or have someone make excuses 4 me) for their downfall... is the day I need to leave my position.

All of this Bill Clinton talk is really getting old.... time to stand up and stop using the Clinton crutch :egads:

Well that’s a really strange way of putting it. I too am the owner of my company. If I am selling my company right after I started a chain of financial problems that lead to a downward spiral causing me to lay off employees and causing my stock to plummet. Then the new CEO comes in and has to try to repair this problem at the same time a bomb goes off in the office that a competing company sent, killing hundreds of his employees, then several distributors of his go out of business because of scandals, then he has to go attack this other company in court costing him more money. I wouldn't really say its all his fault.

Get the point.

its a part of assuming the role of that job.

We took over a failing company and have honored all past debts from it, even tho it 'wasnt our fault'.

It doesnt matter what happened in the past,. When we assumed the role we took all that came with it...good or bad....thats the way it goes.

I'd consider myself a failure if things went south under my watch.

So I'll say again: He was handed the keys to a fine running auto...now its a wreck.

My employees would consider me a failure to the company and them if I started finger pointing. I am the one responsible for this company and the people that work there......PERIOD.

I make no excuses and I dont accept many either

Originally posted by Emerald
its a part of assuming the role of that job.

We took over a failing company and have honored all past debts from it, even tho it 'wasnt our fault'.

It doesnt matter what happened in the past,. When we assumed the role we took all that came with it...good or bad....thats the way it goes.

I'd consider myself a failure if things went south under my watch.

So I'll say again: He was handed the keys to a fine running auto...now its a wreck.

My employees would consider me a failure to the company and them if I started finger pointing. I am the one responsible for this company and the people that work there......PERIOD.

I make no excuses and I dont accept many either

You really don't have an understanding then. He was NOT handed the keys to a fine running automobile. He was handed the keys to a car with an engine going out and high miles with a horrible previous owner that lied about the maintenance records. He was trying to fix the problems with the car well all of a sudden the Engine blew up because of the last owners lack of maintenance. So now he has to get a huge Loan to replace the engine completely. To make sure he does it right, he fixes other things that might break to keep this from happening again. That costs extra of course, but it will be worth it in the future.

Bush He hasn't pointed his finger. He actually doesn't ever place blame on the former admin. I do!

He was handed the keys to a Lexus with 800,000 miles on it running without oil for the last 2 years. It was a problem that started with Clinton (that crappy car owner) and continued into his admin.

You still can not compare a small company such as yours to the US economy. That is WAY out of comparison.

It’s like comparing a KIA to a LEXUS solely because they are both use gas to run....

Business is Business, large or small. Make an excuse for him all you want...I dont care.

The fact remains that he is a failure at running this country at this point.


And that Lexus vs Kia ****? Yeah they both use gas and would get me from A to B...Im not trying to hear any excuses about makes and models if one of them breaks down. I dont care. All I care about is getting from A to B

Get it?

I don't remember things being all that bad when clinton's term ended. Remember the SURPLUS we had?

Originally posted by tggoodrich
I don't remember things being all that bad when clinton's term ended. Remember the SURPLUS we had?

Clinton set up a chain of events that was starting to make the economy crumble.. Its Fact..

Everyone knows this.. well i guess not everyone.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Clinton set up a chain of events that was starting to make the economy crumble.. Its Fact..

Everyone knows this.. well i guess not everyone.:rolleyes:


Ok, so I guess he got us this big surplus using his talent as a leader, then all of the sudden his talents went away and the money was about to go away?

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Clinton set up a chain of events that was starting to make the economy crumble.. Its Fact..

Everyone knows this.. well i guess not everyone.:rolleyes:

Fine, lets put "Clinton gave Bush the job, wait Bush was fighting to get the job. He got it anf has been trying to work out his plan to fix the economy. He failed !!! Can't you see at all?
Ok Ok Ok.....lets give Bush a credit to protect the Nation from terrorism (by going after Osama). :thumbup:
Should we give him a credit too for freeing Iraq from Saddam? What do we gain out of it? Tell me....

Originally posted by LS400Dom

Ok Ok Ok.....lets give Bush a credit to protect the Nation from terrorism (by going after Osama). :thumbup:
Should we give him a credit too for freeing Iraq from Saddam? What do we gain out of it? Tell me....


Hold up on the thumbs up:) . He went after Osama but never finished the job. Then he went after a lesser threat (possibly in part to divert attention) and diverted resources in the process.

:)

Originally posted by tggoodrich
Ok, so I guess he got us this big surplus using his talent as a leader, then all of the sudden his talents went away and the money was about to go away?

You really shouldn't even talk unless you can explain a bit more.

First: Bush inherited an economic recession

Second: A few Months after being in office we were hit by the LARGEST and WORST Terrorist Attack in the countries history (More people than Pearl Harbor were killed)

Third: Enron Collapse and scandal investigations begin on some of the countries largest corporations.

Forth: ALL of the Largest Airlines (which employ Hundreds of Thousands) go into Bankruptcy due to new Regulations and few flights.

Fifth: War in Afghanistan (Which was warranted and called for in every way)

Sixth: War in Iraq (Bad Country, Bad Leader, not as big of a eminent threat, could have wait, but we are still in it)

I do agree that the Bush admin should have spent less on the Iraq was. But if Bush didn't do it, what then? Where we going to wait until Saddam had enough power to actually attack and take over the other countries around him? HE HAS ALREADY KILLED MILLIONS..... Don't You Understand THAT? THE ONLY reason why HE DIDN'T KEEP GOING IS BECAUSE WE STOPPED HIM!! You really think he would have never attacked again?

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
You really shouldn't even talk unless you can explain a bit more.

First: Bush inherited an economic recession

Second: A few Months after being in office we were hit by the LARGEST and WORST Terrorist Attack in the countries history (More people than Pearl Harbor were killed)

Third: Enron Collapse and scandal investigations begin on some of the countries largest corporations.

Forth: ALL of the Largest Airlines (which employ Hundreds of Thousands) go into Bankruptcy due to new Regulations and few flights.

Fifth: War in Afghanistan (Which was warranted and called for in every way)

Sixth: War in Iraq (Bad Country, Bad Leader, not as big of a eminent threat, could have wait, but we are still in it)

I do agree that the Bush admin should have spent less on the Iraq was. But if Bush didn't do it, what then? Where we going to wait until Saddam had enough power to actually attack and take over the other countries around him? HE HAS ALREADY KILLED MILLIONS..... Don't You Understand THAT? THE ONLY reason why HE DIDN'T KEEP GOING IS BECAUSE WE STOPPED HIM!! You really think he would have never attacked again?

Only responding to a few since I'm going to bed

3- Clinton had absolutely no way of knowing what these corporate crooks were doing with their business. So I would have to say it's more on GW to prosecute these people fully so it doesn't happen again. I'm not seeing a whole lot of action being taken. I lost money with Worldcom- so yes I'm pissed. If GW was serious, I'd have my $ back.

4- We live in a capitalistic society. I was for the airline bailout until I found out many other airlines like Southwest and JetBlue made a profit despite the attacks( and yes, they still got bailout money). The problem here lies within the specific airlines' business practices.

Lastly, about the war in Iraq. Would have never happened had it not been for our bass ackwards foreign policy to screw it up in the first place and then not finish the job the first time. And Saddam was contained during the last 12 years- seems to have worked pretty well as far as keeping his hands off any bio/nuclear weapons. I think we could have easily kept him contained for much longer too, had it not been for us pissing off the Saudi's (and needing a new place to go in the mideast) and other various vested interests in Iraq.

Rich or anyone else want to take up the rest?

Originally posted by tggoodrich
Only responding to a few since I'm going to bed

3- Clinton had absolutely no way of knowing what these corporate crooks were doing with their business. So I would have to say it's more on GW to prosecute these people fully so it doesn't happen again. I'm not seeing a whole lot of action being taken. I lost money with Worldcom- so yes I'm pissed. If GW was serious, I'd have my $ back.

Wrong

Enron DNC Money

During the 1990s, Enron CEO Ken Lay personally contributed $11,000 to former President Bill Clinton for his two campaigns. In addition, Lay gave Vice President Al Gore $13,750 for his 2000 election campaign.

During Clinton's eight years in office, the company and Lay contributed about $900,000 to the Democratic Party. Former Enron officials said an important part of their strategy to win favor with the Gore campaign was a significant increase in the company's donations to Democrats. In 1999 and 2000, the company gave $362,000 in soft-money donations to Democrats.

Most Americans were not aware of Enron's dealings with a Chinese army oil company engaged in oil-for-blood in Sudan. The mass media neglected to inform the U.S. public about the cruel use of humanitarian aid by the Clinton administration that greased an Enron deal in Africa. The fiction writers who spin your news never mentioned the Enron donations to the DNC.

If you paid attention to any of the mainstream media outlets, you can be certain that Enron never existed during the Clinton years.

Fiction writers documented the fall of Enron as a scandal to be linked to President Bush. Yet the U.S. Commerce Department has just released over 5,000 pages of documents that detail the Enron scandal during the Clinton years.

The Commerce materials outline a long-standing and very close relationship between the Clinton administration and Enron. For example, in March 1999 U.S. Commerce Secretary William Daley's trade delegation to China produced several sweet business deals, including a special little gem for Enron.

Enron International China Pipeline, a wholly owned subsidiary of Enron Corp. of Houston, Texas, signed a memorandum of understanding with China National Petroleum Corporation to jointly develop a natural gas pipeline.

"Enron International approached FCS (Foreign Commercial Service) Beijing for advocacy support for its joint venture to build a 4,000 km, $400 million natural gas pipeline from reserves in Sichuan Province to markets in and around Wuhan in eastern China," states an April 1999 Commerce document from Ivone Yang.

"CO Adams worked with Enron and USDOC's Advocacy Center to win the Chinese authorities blessing so that Enron International was able to sign a Memorandum of Understanding during Secretary Daley's visit to China in March 1999 with its partner, China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC)," notes the Commerce Department memo.

The deal also sealed the first major U.S. energy effort with China National Petroleum. However, China National Petroleum already has great experience at building pipelines under hostile conditions. CNPC is a Chinese army-owned firm that currently operates an oil pipeline inside war-torn areas of Sudan.

According to an article published in Investor's Business Daily by John Berlau, "Chinese Oil Firm Listing on NYSE Faces Fight Due to Terrorist Links," CNPC operates an oil pipeline through the contested areas inside Sudan.

"Canada's Foreign Affairs Ministry recently found that the oil pipeline that CNPC is building with Sudan's government and others is 'exacerbating the conflict' that has already killed 2 million people," wrote Berlau. "Not only will the oil revenue go to fuel the war effort but Sudan's government is using the pipeline project's airstrip for bombing missions."

Originally posted by tggoodrich
Only responding to a few since I'm going to bed

3- Clinton had absolutely no way of knowing what these corporate crooks were doing with their business. So I would have to say it's more on GW to prosecute these people fully so it doesn't happen again. I'm not seeing a whole lot of action being taken. I lost money with Worldcom- so yes I'm pissed. If GW was serious, I'd have my $ back.

LOL... Who do you think handles this? The President DOES NOT ENFORCE PENALTIES FOR BREAK CORPORATE LAWS!! ..lol the Courts Determine what happens.

Plus I can see it now. Bush under the microscope for bailing out the Richest of the Rich because of their poor choice of companies to invest in.. lol

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
First: Bush inherited an economic recession

...And he turned a normal recession into the largest market crash and the country's largest national deficit, ever. He grew the national budget every year for three years straight while throwing away needy revenue in the form of tax rebates to the very wealthy.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Second: A few Months after being in office we were hit by the LARGEST and WORST Terrorist Attack in the countries history (More people than Pearl Harbor were killed)

Few months? Try NINE months. The entire month of August 2001 was a giant vacation as well. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Forth: ALL of the Largest Airlines (which employ Hundreds of Thousands) go into Bankruptcy due to new Regulations and few flights.

And almost all of them received very generous government subsidies.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Where we going to wait until Saddam had enough power to actually attack and take over the other countries around him? HE HAS ALREADY KILLED MILLIONS..... Don't You Understand THAT?

Give me sources for that "millions" fact. More like the UK and US killed two million Iraqis by heading UN sanctions against Iraqis against the recommendation of the other security council members. Oops, that little fact looks bad on the US, maybe we should pretend it didn't happen so we can be called patriots!! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
During the 1990s, Enron CEO Ken Lay personally contributed $11,000 to former President Bill Clinton for his two campaigns. In addition, Lay gave Vice President Al Gore $13,750 for his 2000 election campaign.

During Clinton's eight years in office, the company and Lay contributed about $900,000 to the Democratic Party. Former Enron officials said an important part of their strategy to win favor with the Gore campaign was a significant increase in the company's donations to Democrats. In 1999 and 2000, the company gave $362,000 in soft-money donations to Democrats.

Maybe you don't understand the process of lobbying Washington. In order to get talk time with politicians, you have to contribute to their campaign with money. That gets to an all access pass to lobby them. So for a collective 16 years, Enron donated a total of $24,750 to Gore and Clinton. Did you also conviniently forget that Ken Lay of Enron donated $146,500 to a Governor of Texas? A Mr. George W. Bush? What's this? A state governor getting SIX times the political contributions of the president of the USA?! What could warrant this?

Maybe because Bush's first action as a governor was to begin deregulating the utilities in Texas giving Enron freedom of a regular business to play around with prices and bend environmental laws. But it doesn't stop there... Bush granted Enron over $1.6 billion in state loans. In 1997 Bush allowed Enron Methanol in Houston to release 3,300 tons of pollution into the air per year making Houston, Texas the most polluted city in America. The five highest pollution measurements taken in America were all in Houston and Houston-area suburbs. There are a number of studies of widespread breathing problems in Houston 1999, particularly with children.

For the 2000 election, Ken Lay donated $100,000 to Bush and $1.3 million in soft money to the Republican Party, mostly used by Bush in his 2000 campaign. Then when Bush was elected, Enron executives collectively donated $300,000 to the Bush-Cheney Inaugural Fund. Also, 14 of the Bush Administration officials owned up to $250,000 in stock in Enron when Bush took the office.

But it doesn't stop there. While California was suffering it's "phantom" power shortage, the price of power spiked 800%. This was while Cheney and Lay were drawing up national energy policy. A memo from Cheney stated "The administration should reject any attempt to re-regulate wholesale power markets by adopting price caps or returning to archaic methods of determining the cost-base of wholesale power". Cheney did not want to spare California from a gigantic debt of bondage, so he allowed the price of power to inflate. Ken Lay of Enron passed this message on to FERC and thus it became policy to sit back and watch Davis and California toil.

"I called George W. to kind of tell him what was going on. And I said that it would be very helpful to Enron … if he could just call the governor and tell him this is a serious company, this is a professional company, a good company."

- Ken Lay

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
LOL... Who do you think handles this? The President DOES NOT ENFORCE PENALTIES FOR BREAK CORPORATE LAWS!! ..lol the Courts Determine what happens.

Plus I can see it now. Bush under the microscope for bailing out the Richest of the Rich because of their poor choice of companies to invest in.. lol


You need to go back to civics class. The president makes the executive office. His NUMBER ONE JOB is to enforce the laws of this nation. The court's job is to interpret law. I would have thought a Corporate Law degree would have taught you something that I learned in 9th grade. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Clinton set up a chain of events that was starting to make the economy crumble.. Its Fact..

Everyone knows this.. well i guess not everyone.:rolleyes:

What chain of events was this? Enron began to notice its mounting financial problems in early 2001. By mid-2001 Enron was hiding its debts by creating affiliated parternships with poor-performing assets overseas where stockholders and government regulators couldn't see them. By the end of the fiscal quarter, Lay and others were able to report on robust company earnings and promote investors to buy up more stock while the company crumbled internally in foreign subsidiaries. The point is, the entire mess of Enron started and ended under the Bush Administration. Clinton had nothing to do with it. So tell me now, what was this "chain of events" you speak of??.....

Originally posted by lex400sc
What chain of events was this? Enron began to notice its mounting financial problems in early 2001. By mid-2001 Enron was hiding its debts by creating affiliated parternships with poor-performing assets overseas where stockholders and government regulators couldn't see them. By the end of the fiscal quarter, Lay and others were able to report on robust company earnings and promote investors to buy up more stock while the company crumbled internally in foreign subsidiaries. The point is, the entire mess of Enron started and ended under the Bush Administration. Clinton had nothing to do with it. So tell me now, what was this "chain of events" you speak of??.....

I'm guess you can't read.. because if you could, my statement that mentioned "Chain Of Events" wasn't in regard to the Enron. Its interesting you would would make it sound that way though.

But I will explain how "Clinton set up a chain of events that was starting to make the economy crumble.. Its Fact."

<WASHINGTON POST>June 2000 President Clinton says that things are good for America. The stock market is climbing, jobs are plentiful, inflation has been reigned in and mortgages are affordable. This sounds good, But, Clinton thinks there are some things that are wrong with this picture. What he fears most is that the American people will figure out what it is between now and the November election.

Clinton's economics advisors realize that The stock market is overvalued and could stumble, and inflation is threatening to cause mortgage rates to suddenly rise sharply before the election.

Clinton's re-election prospects are dimming as problems depress the American middle-class. Corporate layoffs and stagnant wages cause many taxpayers to challenge Clinton's version of the present American economy.

The reason behind the slower than average expansion of the American economy is the unprecedented Clinton tax hike of $241 billion that has cost job growth and economic output. Bob Dole said "This year, `It's the economy, stupid' takes on a whole new meaning," Dole said in a recent speech, referring to Clinton's unofficial 1992 campaign slogan. "Clinton is hoping the rest of us are stupid so we won't notice what a mess he's made of the economy."

For the past five years, large pluralities of Americans have been reporting that they believe the nation is on the wrong track in surveys conducted by Wirthlin Worldwide of McLean, Va.

It happened again in a Wirthlin public poll conducted June 20-23: Only 29 percent of those surveyed said America was headed in the right direction, compared with 64 percent who felt otherwise.

"People are frustrated," said Wirthlin Vice President Bruce Blakeman. "People are frightened by what is happening to the economy as it affects them personally."

Some 62 percent of those surveyed in a Money Magazine/ABC News poll released last week gave the Clinton economy poor marks. Less than three in 10 respondents say they are better off than when Clinton office in January.

The Clinton income tax increase in 1993 that included a 4-cent-a-gallon gasoline tax increase is beginning to be understood as a big hit on middle and lower income voters.

The Clinton 1993 tax increase is costing the economy some $208 billion in economic output and has been the single most significant reason for reducing the new jobs by 1.2 million. The Heritage Foundation said the tax hike cost the average American family $2,600 in higher taxes and lower earnings.

Rising mortgage rates come as inflation is starting to creep upward and wipe other gains in the economy. John E. Silvia, an economist for Zurich Kemper Investments in Chicago, said "If inflation keeps on rising ... in July or August you could have a Fed tightening policy that might shake consumer confidence."

Economics Institute Chief Economist. Howard Hobbs said Saturday "If the bad news does comes before the November election voters will dump the Clinton administration.However, Clinton will attempt to delay the reporting of economic data at the last-minute until after the election."

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Wrong

Enron DNC Money


"Enron International approached FCS (Foreign Commercial Service) Beijing for advocacy support for its joint venture to build a 4,000 km, $400 million natural gas pipeline from reserves in Sichuan Province to markets in and around Wuhan in eastern China," states an April 1999 Commerce document from Ivone Yang.



I thought we were talking about the energy/accounting scandal:confused:

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0

But I will explain how "Clinton set up a chain of events that was starting to make the economy crumble.. Its Fact."

Clinton's economics advisors realize that The stock market is overvalued and could stumble, and inflation is threatening to cause mortgage rates to suddenly rise sharply before the election.
." [/B]

I'm wondering how Clinton is to blame for the whole mess. Sure, the stock market was overvalued, but that's why there's times for market corrections. Bush's mishandling of the economy exacerbated the problems associated with a correction (slow economy) and turned it into an over-correction.

I still ask myself about our alternatives.........Gore?!?!?!?!? Nothing scares me more than the thought of the US with Gore as president. For me the left represents alot of........

Originally posted by tinygs
I still ask myself about our alternatives.........Gore?!?!?!?!? Nothing scares me more than the thought of the US with Gore as president.

Well for one our deficit would not be as big as it is today. There would likely be more jobs in America. And America would have endorsed the Kyoto Agreement.


Originally posted by tinygs
For me the left represents alot of........

I hope you aren't another hit-and-run poster. Please stay a while and expound on this thought of yours. You are insinuating that liberals are crybabies. How is that?

Originally posted by lex400sc
Well for one our deficit would not be as big as it is today. There would likely be more jobs in America. And America would have endorsed the Kyoto Agreement.



Don't forget the countless other international treaties Rich!
:D

my 2 cents....

well,... by lookin' at the houston local news,... they got ahold of Mr. Bush's job performance ratings in the Republican's eyes,... and they say he is suckin' like a handi-capped prostitute,... so if the Republicans want a replacement,... I'm not gonna post a page long novel on why he is garbage,... I sit at home and get reminded of my unemployment everyday. Ask any party member who works hi-tech,... they're still takin' an azzwhoopin' and all unanimously feel the current administration is responsible,...Democrats and Rep's...

I don't know anybody who wishes they could be our president when they grow up....

poor excuse of a manipulator and exxxxxxagerator.... scare the population with proganda, then they listen and choose out of fear instead of truth...

why is Colin Powell and Bush depending on what day it is,... in alignment, out of alignment,... is it because our media promotes the image, and then sometimes the truth leaks out shortly thereafter?

scrubs:rolleyes:

I'd give Clinton 15 mistresses and a private room to handle his bizness in to have him back in office compared to the faithful fool we have now.... I'm wonderin' when the first nuclear bomb is goin' to fall on US soil 'cuz our president is tryin' to bully the whole world... I know North Korea is just waiting for an excuse, and Bush is it... ( every day,... another article about who's Nuke capable... now it's Isreal... last week it was Iran... hell, this whole Iraq mess started with Iraq alleged plutonium purchase... North Korea,... Pakistan,... China... (get tha picture,... scare the world into thinkin' Bush is the only responsible mercenary))

Interesting how you are unemployed, yet I've been able to get just about any job I wanted over the last two years. I quit my job managing an autoglass shop, I made a few pennies there, got a job in a restaurant while I got my life, accident and health liscence, got a job selling suplemental benefits. After a while of that, I got an offer to run the inventory at a local computer store, got tired of that, went back to glass, and making a little more money, but even better, back to playing with cars. I felt like I would like to occupy my time off by making money, got a job as a waiter with no experience, decided not to go through with it, since I was already doing 60 hours/wk, and now have an interview with another company that I am very confident I will get into and for even more money. All of this, not to mention various little side things, some manual labor, some photography, some car purchases and sales, etc. All of this in roughly a year and a
half. I have not been turned down for a job yet, and finding work is very easy, well, easy if you don't have your mind set on one thing, and find ways to apply your skills to other fields.

To quote a great entertainer, "If you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself, and make a change"

Maybe you should think twice before you blame someone else for something that is totally in your own control

that's funny to me, cuz your background would be the likes of people to assume that in my unemployment, I did nothing, or simply because your opportunities that pertain to your age, experience, and background may not have applied to me. I was laid off twice for the choices some sorry azz made levels higher than me in corporate america that had nothin' to do with my performance,... I was the last engineer to be laid off in my department.... hmmm... sounds like i should change and be like a fool who thinks along the lines of,.. "I was born rich... so maybe your problem is you should find some rich parents"

Well, despite what you've chosen to assume,... I did somethin' about my situation and took control of it by starting my own business, instead of pretending that workin' in corporate america was goin' to provide stability in this day and age. Men twice my age in my discipline know the real cause of today's ills in that regard, ... they were around when you could work somewhere for 25yrs and retire,... well those days are gone due to corporate greed and the governments decisions affecting the economy in which those corporations operate in. Hell,... what fool is control of being laid off?? I don't recall getting a choice.... funny how I got laid off from Applied Materials Dec 13th 2001,... and they've had 10 layoffs since... and the same dumb azzes sounding like you found themselves in the same unemployment line just like me... I guess this is the same mentality Mr. Limbaugh had,... seems contagious...

Lets see,... what else... well, now in business for myself... since I sell luxury items for those who consider themselves semi-affluent,.. their favorite responses are:

1) I would, but I don't know if I'll have a job after ( fill in the blank with any time period you want)

2) I got a pay cut because of our company's condition

3) I just got laid off, and can't seem to find another job

4) I'm getting laid off in 2 wks,...so can't do it

5) I've gotta wait and see what the economy does,... can't spend right now like I used to

there's many more,... but you get the point....

If everything was in our control,.. I'd make you pay me $10K a month for doing nothing, and get all sorts of benefits for free, BECAUSE AS YOU'D LIKE TO BELIEVE,... it's in my control. Someone showed us a Dilbert cartoon that had the boss tellin' dilbert he was his biaaach, and Dilbert had to repeat it, to keep his job, that he was still inevitably going to loose,... point was, he didn't have a choice... being the biiiacch or not... so i think before ever making an assumption of others and their situations, you might want to know something about them respectively....

I'm a mechanical engineer and most people use the good ole " you're overqualified and would be underpaid, so we're not gonna hire you and risk you quitting to run the next hirer paying job" or " you don't have 28 yrs experience in atmospheric re-entry, and orbit studies, plus .......so and so forth, implying I already worked at their company... Hell,... I told a company they could underpay me... no dice..... Maybe if I had a generalist discipline and general experience... you might have hit 1/64th of the head of the nail,... but that's not the case,...and people who are in authority, and govern things should take responsibility for their decisions, since they are generally not the ones who suffer for them. Applied Materials has been laying off so much, I'm suprised anyone still works there... HOWEVER, the management is still around, and they get bonuses from what they saved by downsizing, and even if they got fired, they probably would never have to work a day in their life again cuz they're already rich, and might just open another business again, and play the corporate puppet master game and leave more future hard working employees in the same situation they left the last batch in....

think about it...

Originally posted by lex400sc
You are insinuating that liberals are crybabies. How is that?

My favorite definition of Liberal is that their idea of fairness is to make everyone equally miserable.

The difference between Liberals and everyone else is that Liberals see the Government first as a solution to every problem, whereas everyone else sees the Government first as the PROBLEM.

I just returned from the UK where evidence of the government's meddling into EVERY aspect of the public's lives is suffocating.

Originally posted by NAZTY97
that's funny to me, cuz your background would be the likes of people to assume that in my unemployment, I did nothing, or simply because your opportunities that pertain to your age, experience, and background may not have applied to me. I was laid off twice for the choices some sorry azz made levels higher than me in corporate america that had nothin' to do with my performance,... I was the last engineer to be laid off in my department.... hmmm... sounds like i should change and be like a fool who thinks along the lines of,.. "I was born rich... so maybe your problem is you should find some rich parents"

Well, despite what you've chosen to assume,... I did somethin' about my situation and took control of it by starting my own business, instead of pretending that workin' in corporate america was goin' to provide stability in this day and age. Men twice my age in my discipline know the real cause of today's ills in that regard, ... they were around when you could work somewhere for 25yrs and retire,... well those days are gone due to corporate greed and the governments decisions affecting the economy in which those corporations operate in. Hell,... what fool is control of being laid off?? I don't recall getting a choice.... funny how I got laid off from Applied Materials Dec 13th 2001,... and they've had 10 layoffs since... and the same dumb azzes sounding like you found themselves in the same unemployment line just like me... I guess this is the same mentality Mr. Limbaugh had,... seems contagious...

Lets see,... what else... well, now in business for myself... since I sell luxury items for those who consider themselves semi-affluent,.. their favorite responses are:

1) I would, but I don't know if I'll have a job after ( fill in the blank with any time period you want)

2) I got a pay cut because of our company's condition

3) I just got laid off, and can't seem to find another job

4) I'm getting laid off in 2 wks,...so can't do it

5) I've gotta wait and see what the economy does,... can't spend right now like I used to

there's many more,... but you get the point....

If everything was in our control,.. I'd make you pay me $10K a month for doing nothing, and get all sorts of benefits for free, BECAUSE AS YOU'D LIKE TO BELIEVE,... it's in my control. Someone showed us a Dilbert cartoon that had the boss tellin' dilbert he was his biaaach, and Dilbert had to repeat it, to keep his job, that he was still inevitably going to loose,... point was, he didn't have a choice... being the biiiacch or not... so i think before ever making an assumption of others and their situations, you might want to know something about them respectively....

I'm a mechanical engineer and most people use the good ole " you're overqualified and would be underpaid, so we're not gonna hire you and risk you quitting to run the next hirer paying job" or " you don't have 28 yrs experience in atmospheric re-entry, and orbit studies, plus .......so and so forth, implying I already worked at their company... Hell,... I told a company they could underpay me... no dice..... Maybe if I had a generalist discipline and general experience... you might have hit 1/64th of the head of the nail,... but that's not the case,...and people who are in authority, and govern things should take responsibility for their decisions, since they are generally not the ones who suffer for them. Applied Materials has been laying off so much, I'm suprised anyone still works there... HOWEVER, the management is still around, and they get bonuses from what they saved by downsizing, and even if they got fired, they probably would never have to work a day in their life again cuz they're already rich, and might just open another business again, and play the corporate puppet master game and leave more future hard working employees in the same situation they left the last batch in....

think about it...


Where do you live? I can help with the job market for you. I'm being serious too.

I live in houston tx,... and am lookin' for customer's more than a job cuz I've invested too much time and money n my business and see the light at the end of the tunnel ( can't judge how far away it is,.. but I see it ). I know things like being a business owner take time, patience, and hard work... which I am willing to pay,... so I am not goin to take a job that would kill my most precious assett.... TIME... I do a lot during the day each day to ensure the success of what I've set out to do. If you have friends with needs in the home theater / audio/video / home automation industry, have them contact me,.. .or if you can find a part time mechanical engineering postion, I'd love that.

Originally posted by NAZTY97
I live in houston tx,... and am lookin' for customer's more than a job cuz I've invested too much time and money n my business and see the light at the end of the tunnel ( can't judge how far away it is,.. but I see it ). I know things like being a business owner take time, patience, and hard work... which I am willing to pay,... so I am not goin to take a job that would kill my most precious assett.... TIME... I do a lot during the day each day to ensure the success of what I've set out to do. If you have friends with needs in the home theater / audio/video / home automation industry, have them contact me,.. .or if you can find a part time mechanical engineering postion, I'd love that.
What level of engineering are you? Whats your portfolio look like? Give me some info and I'll get the ball rolling. What type of projects have you worked on or managed?

I'll PM you,... I don't want somebody to get to distracted with your good will to think that his baseless statement that made him look pretty silly has been overlooked or forgotten...

Originally posted by NAZTY97
I sit at home and get reminded of my unemployment everyday. Ask any party member who works hi-tech,... they're still takin' an azzwhoopin' and all unanimously feel the current administration is responsible

If you have your own business you are not unemployed. You may not have any customers, but tell me how you can remind yourself of your unemployment if you are working? That makes no sense. Congratulations on your new business, I hope it works out for you. I am 100% for entrepeneurship, since now days you better not rely on anyone to make you rich, you gotta be responsible for yourself. That is why I think it is a cop-out to blame the government for unemployment, going back my original point. This is the land of opportunity, and if you don't take advantage of it, you are the only one to blame.

that would be clarified by this: everyday, I am reminded why I have to super bust my azz to make ends meet because my comfortable 9 - 5 went away for some one elses choice, and every day I don't make a dime despite my hard work ( at this point ), I remember a day when I did somewhere other than running clear across the state of texas and back... being thrown into a situation to which your only options are swim or die,... loose your house, car, possibly face acquiring bad credit by virtue of not being able to keep up with all of your bills,... because of a company's inability to forecast and maneuver strategicly to stay profitable....

I am "technicly" unemployed because I was displaced out of my field of occupation and have been forced to seek alternative forms of income... maybe I'll go invest my / your hood with crack like on ghettopoly. j/k, fact remains... people who make decisions that affect those beneath them in the hierarchy of this country's societal ladder never see the consequences of their poor decisions.

If we go to war today,... the president has bunkers deep in the ground and other safe locations unknown in their whereabouts to protect him, so he can command,... you and I, well, I guess we have our homes / apts,...and last I saw,.. a nice bomb will wipe a few of those out,... hmmmm... presidents' worry,.. not quite the same as mine... CEO's worry,.. not quite the same as mine.... shareholder's worry,... not quite mine....

this is the land of opportunity,... the opportunity to see how it can be the best of times, and the worst of times.... just depends on who you are and what day it is...and if your day hasn't came yet,... keep living..

I sent an e-mail out to the company that we use for employment referals. My guy sent me this back for you:

Job Number: 06460

LaBarge, Inc./St. Louis, Missouri: Engineering Manager
Houston, TX

Position:
To manage the engineering department. Position reports to the General Manager. The Houston facility designs, builds and tests ruggedized PCB's, down hole tools, electronic enclosures and Hybrids for the oil and gas industry using both automated and manual methods.

Responsibilities/Tasks:
Manage the engineering operations of the Houston plant including design and manufacturing engineering, IT, drafting, and documentation.
Plan and execute the engineering budget.
Provide leadership for the engineering department to establish objectives, priorities and accountabilities, guide achievement of performance objectives, and select and empower functional leaders.
Manage the performance and training of engineers, engineering technicians, and documentation personnel.
Direct engineering department and facility in continuous improvement activities.
Develop and maintain an excellent working relationship with our customers through developing of staff to achieve customer requirements for engineering support and selling the support to customers.
Develop engineering processes and procedures in accordance with ISO 9001 that allow products to be built and maintained to revision levels.
Provide technical support to solve production problems within the facility.
Modernize the engineering IT infrastructure to allow efficient and effective communications with the customers and the floor.

Qualifications
Bachelors degree in Electrical, Industrial, or Mechanical Engineering or equivalent.
Demonstrated project management experience-planning, budget, allocation of resources, profit & loss statements, cash flow and balance sheets.
Negotiation and conflict management skills together with demonstrated experience troubleshooting and problem-solving.
Computer proficiency--Intermediate level in Microsoft Office.
Excellent written and verbal skills to interact with people at all levels inside and outside LaBarge, Inc.
Proficient in technical writing, good documentation skills; attention to detail is critical.

Contact:
Nicole Krobath
LaBarge, Inc./St. Louis, Missouri

Their Website (http://www.labarge.com)
An Equal Opportunity Employer - Females and Minorities encouraged to apply

Let me know what they say if you go for it.

Originally posted by NAZTY97
that would be clarified by this: everyday, I am reminded why I have to super bust my azz to make ends meet because my comfortable 9 - 5 went away for some one elses choice, and every day I don't make a dime despite my hard work ( at this point ), I remember a day when I did somewhere other than running clear across the state of texas and back... being thrown into a situation to which your only options are swim or die,... loose your house, car, possibly face acquiring bad credit by virtue of not being able to keep up with all of your bills,... because of a company's inability to forecast and maneuver strategicly to stay profitable....

I am "technicly" unemployed because I was displaced out of my field of occupation and have been forced to seek alternative forms of income... maybe I'll go invest my / your hood with crack like on ghettopoly. j/k, fact remains... people who make decisions that affect those beneath them in the hierarchy of this country's societal ladder never see the consequences of their poor decisions.

If we go to war today,... the president has bunkers deep in the ground and other safe locations unknown in their whereabouts to protect him, so he can command,... you and I, well, I guess we have our homes / apts,...and last I saw,.. a nice bomb will wipe a few of those out,... hmmmm... presidents' worry,.. not quite the same as mine... CEO's worry,.. not quite the same as mine.... shareholder's worry,... not quite mine....

this is the land of opportunity,... the opportunity to see how it can be the best of times, and the worst of times.... just depends on who you are and what day it is...and if your day hasn't came yet,... keep living..

I guess the way I look at it is that I have consistantly held a job since my paper route I had for 3 years, starting at age 12. I have never not worked, and most of the time when I am working, I always have a side project. I have many trades and skills and can adapt to nearly any situation. Hell, I think a few of these jobs I applied for they hired me for me alone, not because I was qualified. It is suprising how far a good outlook and personality can get you. I know for a fact I could quite my job today, and immediately have something by the end of the week, and I'm not talking about McDonalds. I guess I get sick of having the Intel lay off people telling me how they can't find anyone who will pay them $25/hr and not make them relocate, when Intel is the only chip manufacturer within quite a few hundred miles. While you are driving around, you ought to pick up a CD set to listen to, the guy's name is Keith Harrell, the book is called "Attiture is Everything". It changed the way I address myself to people, and also changed the way I react to certain situations. If anything, his stories will give you a chuckle.

It’s difficult for me to have a clear stance on this topic for a couple reasons. If I did not have connections in high places, my business probably would not be what it is today. I do not think I would have had any real problem locating and maintaining some type of mid-high level employment in perhaps the engineering field or avionics. It took me several years to become well established to the point that my company had it’s own credit score worth using. My partner and me originally made the company grow off of our personal credit cards. We knew many local business owners who had a need for what we did, so they would give us the work we so desperately needed. We did, however, maintain full time jobs while we were getting started. We figured that $120,000.00 (between the 2 of us) that wasn’t going into our pocket and going back into the company would help our growth and free us of that 2-year business startup nightmare. After about a year of being in business we landed a chance to be directly involved with USAF and the F22 development. We won the contracted after 3 months of negotiating for it and submitting failed bids. This contract was a several million-dollar contact that still continues to this day. After this contract was acquired, we went to a local millionaire (probably a few billion actually) that was very close to my father and me. We spoke with him about what we were doing and that we were pursuing local investments in our company. He wanted more information and a list of jobs that we had successfully completed and the timeframes they were completed in. Well after he saw what we were doing he became very interested in have us do some work for him. After completing a $13 million dollar job for him we earned all the trust he could give. We switched our company to a Corporation and he came on board as our primary investor and our CFO. Shortly after that, we acquired a small regional company that was also our primary competition. This raised our employee count too almost 1000 on staff. The President of that company became our COO one-month later. From there, it has just been growth for us.

I am aware of attitude being a dictator of your past / present / and future altitude.

I think my attitude dictated,... I have skills, multiple at that, all the ones I need to start and run a bizness, and for the ones I don't,.. the resources to fill in those area,... a personality that allows for me to interact with people favorable to the success of my business and even in the rat race of corporate america. the reason it's hard to see goin' back to corporate is... I've seen what freedom to go and come as I choose, while making the same amount of money, IF customers are acquired, in only a fraction of the time. The stage for me right now is mass marketing for consumer awareness, considering I have not been able to do that as of yet, and has only been by word of mouth, I have done well thus far to only have been in business since Jan of this year.

I quit Boeing Jun 99 to work for Holophane - Lithonia in Austin,... 4 months later laid off cuz they got bought out the day I accepted, and the company got ripped off big time,...paid too much and wasnt makin' what they were told,...3 wks later, I got my job at applied materials,...2 yrs later I was laid off from applied materials dec 13th, 2001.... busted my azz lookin' for engineering jobs everywhere for 6 months,... get a job at Cooper Cameron Jun of 2002,... dec 13th, 2002 laid off again, cuz they could keep customers or get any new ones to buy natural gas compressors.......... no severence pay, nothin...some of the people i applied to from over a year ago from my first layoff called me for the first time this go round,...so I figured,.. I better not hold my breath for a job, I better create one. It's different to just get jobs that pay minimal money if they don't cover the bills you've incurred by your previous employers pay rate,... If I own a house, car, etc... and workin' at the glass shop has me workin' 40 hrs a week and not even able to cover 80% of my bills,..... kind of pointless,...

I have my home theater sales & installation business, do web pages, graphic design, custom furniture accessory design, car stereo install, helped install AC's for $10/hr,... all the while, looking for a job,... well now that mine has had to go to this extent,... I am sticking to my committment of my business before all,... more rewarding... and I would think this would give you an indication that I am not lazy,..

but I do remember what societal conditions created the situation I'm in, and didn't pretend I was playin' monopoly and rolled the wrong dice one day before goin to work.