I think I am going to be the first to say this.

I think this debate forum should be closed. Because of a few reasons..

You WILL NOT EVER find a debate that will not become very personal and very vocal very quickly. Anytime you have a difference in opinion you are going to have personal feelings backing that opinion. So in turn, you will have emotions that cause a person to have an opinion involved. This will always lead a friendly discussion into a rude and loud debate. This debate forum was set up to allow us to share our thoughts on current events dealing with politics and any other types of personal and political debating.

Most of us have an opinion on the current events taking place in this country, we each have reasons why we support who we support and say things that we say. This does not mean that any of use is wrong, but it does cause tension and anger at time. This is something that ClubLexus could do without. There are MILLIONS and MILLIONS that sway each way. If not, then the very little that sways left or sway right would have much of a voice.

Because of this forums nature, it will inevitably cause possible ClubLexus friends to become rivals very quickly.

I recommend that this Forum be closed.

This might just be me that thinks this way though.

I think its just you...even tho you seem to like posting here the most ;)


Ive learned a lot ,and I value opinions... even when I dont agree with them. It Would be pretty pathetic to cry like a baby just because someone doesnt agree with me....... wouldnt it?

I vote that it stays.

I vote that it stays as well. It seems to me that this is more of a matter of personal responsibility. If a person cannot debate without resorting to personal attacks, perhaps it is best that they avoid debate altogether. If a person is involved in a debate and another person uses a personal attack, it is incumbent upon person A to take the high road instead of getting down in the mud.

It seems like the call to close the debate forum is akin to the calls to the public hue and cry that arises against shows like the Howard Stern Show, etc. The real solution is to familiarize oneself with the remote control if you don't like a show on TV or, in this case, the wealth of other forums and topics that exist here. Shutting down the debate forum would be rather Ashcroftian.

Originally posted by link13
I vote that it stays as well. It seems to me that this is more of a matter of personal responsibility. If a person cannot debate without resorting to personal attacks, perhaps it is best that they avoid debate altogether. If a person is involved in a debate and another person uses a personal attack, it is incumbent upon person A to take the high road instead of getting down in the mud.

It seems like the call to close the debate forum is akin to the calls to the public hue and cry that arises against shows like the Howard Stern Show, etc. The real solution is to familiarize oneself with the remote control if you don't like a show on TV or, in this case, the wealth of other forums and topics that exist here. Shutting down the debate forum would be rather Ashcroftian.

Personally, I don't really mind if this stays open. The only reason I even brought it up was to preserve the integrety of ClubLexus.

As you people already know, I can debate all day without getting tired.:thumbup:

So I actually VOTE that it stays open. The Mods. have their work cut out for them though.

Personal attacks have been going both ways. So don't pin the on me alone or any one other person.

I disagree with a lot of things people say in these debates, one notorious person comes to mind, but I still respect this person and believe they are highly intelligent. Just one example.


When it all comes down to it, we are all Lexus enthusiasts, if you have to take it that personal just stay out off this forum, I think Dave even offered to change it so you won't even see it. Disagreement is healthy, a wonderful part of being in this country, but set your views aside, are all family here.

I too will say I like it, and it hasn't gotten out of hand yet, it's been pretty civil. There is really only one person makling consistent personal attacks, but that person is tolerable, and his opinions really give me a good laugh when I need it. I say let it stay, it's really educational.

Originally posted by jpa2400
I disagree with a lot of things people say in these debates, one notorious person comes to mind, but I still respect this person and believe they are highly intelligent. Just one example.


When it all comes down to it, we are all Lexus enthusiasts, if you have to take it that personal just stay out off this forum, I think Dave even offered to change it so you won't even see it. Disagreement is healthy, a wonderful part of being in this country, but set your views aside, are all family here.

Ditto :thumbup: Well said jpa !!

Part of me wants to put this in site suggestions, the other part wants to leave it in the debate forum.

It's a debate over a site suggestion :D:D:D


:egads:

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
I think I am going to be the first to say this.

I think this debate forum should be closed. Because of a few reasons..

You WILL NOT EVER find a debate that will not become very personal and very vocal very quickly. Anytime you have a difference in opinion you are going to have personal feelings backing that opinion. So in turn, you will have emotions that cause a person to have an opinion involved. This will always lead a friendly discussion into a rude and loud debate. This debate forum was set up to allow us to share our thoughts on current events dealing with politics and any other types of personal and political debating.

Most of us have an opinion on the current events taking place in this country, we each have reasons why we support who we support and say things that we say. This does not mean that any of use is wrong, but it does cause tension and anger at time. This is something that ClubLexus could do without. There are MILLIONS and MILLIONS that sway each way. If not, then the very little that sways left or sway right would have much of a voice.

Because of this forums nature, it will inevitably cause possible ClubLexus friends to become rivals very quickly.

I recommend that this Forum be closed.

This might just be me that thinks this way though.

This is not a personal attack, just a mere observation: It is you, SCLexus3.0, that turns most of the threads personal. You constantly rag on people for being liberal, you endlessly blame and whine about liberals, you make grossly overstated assumptions about liberals, you are basically baiting everyone that isn't like you into an argument. Then you complain that liberals do nothing but complain about Bush, but you are one that only complains about liberals. Rarely have you ever offered any serious, productive solutions to the world's problems. I mostly hear you pointing fingers. I've often entertained myself with the idea of you being unable to use to the word 'liberal' in this forum. I don't think you'd have much to say at all.

I've suggested to you before that if you are unhappy about all the complaining, then maybe you should participate in a debate the way debaters usually do: by trying to disprove the point made. This doesn't mean turning a Bush thread into a Clinton-liberal thread. This means taking the Bush negativity and either making concessions, or adding a different perspective. Don't be so eager to wave the liberal flag and degrade the thread into a flame war.

I am one of the more vociferous ones in this forum and (for the most part) I have had no problem respectfully disagreeing with other people here like jpa, 93Lex, SDuq, bit, and some others, but you, you always go for the low blows and turn political issues into personal issues. I will assume partial responsibility as well, as I sometimes get baited into a pissing contest with you, but you are a big part of this problem also. Don't pretend for a second you are guilt-free. Actually, the thread that I read before this one, I saw EmeraldLexuSC personally attacking a new visitor here. So it isn't just you. Maybe it's a patience problem, maybe it's pride, ego, or just an inability to see an opinion on the internet that disagrees with your own. I don't know. But if you, he, we all mellowed out a bit, this place would be much, much better. I sometimes get tired/sick of posting here because of the energy you consume. No one here is more draining than you. The feeling is probably mutual, but at least I atempt restraint. I don't see that coming from you.

Anyway, there is no need for you to respond to this observation of mine, just review the threads here for yourself. If after you've read all these threads, you still disagree with me, you can post the damning evidence here and I'll happily weigh it against what I've come across.

Also, if you dislike the nature of the debate forum, no one is asking you to stay. You can leave the same way you came in. Don't ruin it for the rest of us by calling for this forum to be dissolved completely because you aren't happy with it. Most every one else here can exchange opinions and interact just fine. And you may take things said here personally and carry over baggage into other forums, but I personally do not. I don't think others here do either. I've exchanged friendly, helpful, car-related PMs with others that I've argued politics with before and I never felt any discomfort in doing so.

I think the consensus here is that closing this forum is ludicrous. No one wants it to happen. Even SCLexus3.0 has changed his mind...

Originally posted by lex400sc
This is not a personal attack, just a mere observation: It is you, SCLexus3.0, that turns most of the threads personal. You constantly rag on people for being liberal, you endlessly blame and whine about liberals, you make grossly overstated assumptions about liberals, you are basically baiting everyone that isn't like you into an argument. Then you complain that liberals do nothing but complain about Bush, but you are one that only complains about liberals. Rarely have you ever offered any serious, productive solutions to the world's problems. I mostly hear you pointing fingers. I've often entertained myself with the idea of you being unable to use to the word 'liberal' in this forum. I don't think you'd have much to say at all.


First off, don't blame this on me. You do it every bit as much as I do. You are as hard core left as I am right. You have been sighted many times for making personal attacks against other members of this very nature. I disproved many points you have and you have done the same my way, but you and some others love to spin topics to find the angle that might not even be related to the original topic. You’re not the only one though, and I can't say that I haven't done this as well at times. But DO NOT attempt to make this sound as if I start all the problems here. I speak VERY highly of this country every chance I get, and yes, I would MUCH RATHER look at the good things this country does rather than dwell on the bad things we occasionally do (while still recognizing them). How many times have I explained THAT I KNOW THE PRESIDENT and his ADMIN Are NOT perfect and have and will made mistakes! People are only human, unlike you though, I believe the President and his Admin are very smart people who are making 90% of their decisions correctly. Like I've said before, I love this country and show if every day. The ability for you and people that back your opinion to speak is a right that I pride as well, but I do know what it is time to support something I agree with, so I do.

Originally posted by lex400sc

I've suggested to you before that if you are unhappy about all the complaining, then maybe you should participate in a debate the way debaters usually do: by trying to disprove the point made. This doesn't mean turning a Bush thread into a Clinton-liberal thread. This means taking the Bush negativity and either making concessions, or adding a different perspective. Don't be so eager to wave the liberal flag and degrade the thread into a flame war.

I the opening part of this thread I did NOT single anyone out. You should NOT place blame WHEN YOU DO THE SAME THING!! Probably more than me. I do the Bush, Clinton turn around every time people single out BUSH as the only President to have made mistakes... Plus, posting Monkey pictures and topics about our Commander and Chief isn't exactly mature or patriotic. (Regardless of if you have something against the Admin.)

Originally posted by lex400sc

I am one of the more vociferous ones in this forum and (for the most part) I have had no problem respectfully disagreeing with other people here like jpa, 93Lex, SDuq, bit, and some others, but you, you always go for the low blows and turn political issues into personal issues. I will assume partial responsibility as well, as I sometimes get baited into a pissing contest with you, but you are a big part of this problem also. Don't pretend for a second you are guilt-free. Actually, the thread that I read before this one, I saw EmeraldLexuSC personally attacking a new visitor here. So it isn't just you. Maybe it's a patience problem, maybe it's pride, ego, or just an inability to see an opinion on the internet that disagrees with your own. I don't know. But if you, he, we all mellowed out a bit, this place would be much, much better. I sometimes get tired/sick of posting here because of the energy you consume. No one here is more draining than you. The feeling is probably mutual, but at least I atempt restraint. I don't see that coming from you.
Only because they don't call you out as much as I do. They let you off on many of the topics that I might research deeper than they will. Believe it or not, some of the other members on here have much more of a life and we apparently do.

Originally posted by lex400sc

Anyway, there is no need for you to respond to this observation of mine, just review the threads here for yourself. If after you've read all these threads, you still disagree with me, you can post the damning evidence here and I'll happily weigh it against what I've come across.


Oh there is an absolute need to respond to this. This is the King of personal attacks against me.

Originally posted by lex400sc

Also, if you dislike the nature of the debate forum, no one is asking you to stay. You can leave the same way you came in. Don't ruin it for the rest of us by calling for this forum to be dissolved completely because you aren't happy with it. Most every one else here can exchange opinions and interact just fine. And you may take things said here personally and carry over baggage into other forums, but I personally do not. I don't think others here do either. I've exchanged friendly, helpful, car-related PMs with others that I've argued politics with before and I never felt any discomfort in doing so.
You know I'm going to stay around.

Originally posted by lex400sc

I think the consensus here is that closing this forum is ludicrous. No one wants it to happen. Even SCLexus3.0 has changed his mind...
Can't say I didn't warn them though.:D

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
I do the Bush, Clinton turn around every time people single out BUSH as the only President to have made mistakes... Plus, posting Monkey pictures and topics about our Commander and Chief isn't exactly mature or patriotic. (Regardless of if you have something against the Admin.)


You can not measure patriotism based on someone comments. Those pictures were only a joke of what Bush has done and some people disagreed with most of his decision for this country. We have the right to critictize him. There's nothing wrong to post those pictures OR starting a thread w/ topic about Bush as Commander and Chief because he is our current president not Clinton.

posted by SCLExus 3.0

I disproved many points you have

did i read this correctly? i stay pretty close to these debate forums, and have yet to hear you once disprove anything lex400sc has said. So if you have, i must have missed it, and would love for you to point it out to me

You know I'm going to stay around.

again, correct me if im wrong but wasn't it you that started this thread? If im going to be completely honest, it sounds a bit like you were distressed that most of what you have said in this forum has been shot down and made to look fairly juvenile/incorrect in respect to what some of the other people have posted on this forum. While others are arguing a position, your too busy bringing up articles from a source such as Newsmax, then post a link, and expect for people to buy into what you have said and except it as truth. By gauging the consensus on this thread, it seems as if you were the only one that couldn't take the heat being stirred from your many baseless views, and after seeing the end result, you play it off as just a joke and say that you didn't mean it and your here to stay. I'm not really sure what to think of that

this is my first time to this room of CL,... and it's scary,... but I can take it....

I don't agree with some things some people say sometimes, and then some times I agree with what some people say.... so I think it depends on what's being said....

I think for the strong minded, it's cool,.. but not for the faint of heart....

I respect most of ya'll here,... I might have a lil' respect,... but then I really don't care tooooo much, cuz I have to respect myself first, and I think some have forgotten that in these debates....

so rock on!:rockon:

Originally posted by BAWLEX94
posted by SCLExus 3.0



did i read this correctly? i stay pretty close to these debate forums, and have yet to hear you once disprove anything lex400sc has said. So if you have, i must have missed it, and would love for you to point it out to me

CNN vs. Fox news... Fox has higher rating and is leading. Lex400sc stated CNN did. I disproved him.
Theres one for you.


again, correct me if im wrong but wasn't it you that started this thread? If im going to be completely honest, it sounds a bit like you were distressed that most of what you have said in this forum has been shot down and made to look fairly juvenile/incorrect in respect to what some of the other people have posted on this forum. While others are arguing a position, your too busy bringing up articles from a source such as Newsmax, then post a link, and expect for people to buy into what you have said and except it as truth. By gauging the consensus on this thread, it seems as if you were the only one that couldn't take the heat being stirred from your many baseless views, and after seeing the end result, you play it off as just a joke and say that you didn't mean it and your here to stay. I'm not really sure what to think of that

Nothing wrong with quoting a conservative source IF IT IS A FACT!!!

You forget, a fact is a fact regardless of the source... On the other hand, listen to the news about how we are doing in Iraq, it all sounds bad.. Until you listen to Fox News and they list the good things that are happening.

Compare: you love to tell how many troops are being killed every day in Baghdad; do you realize that more people die every day in Washington than in Baghdad?

But, you spin the facts and only look at the negative side of things.

As for your last statement, I just felt that this forum was not healthy for the Club as a whole. And just like you say all the time, "I can disagree with the Administration, that doesn't mean I don't love this country"

Well.

"I can disagree with EVERYTHING you and Lex400sc Say and what might happen in this room, doesn’t mean I want to leave".

It was a suggestion based on the values of Club Lexus. Once again, thought you would know something like that.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
CNN vs. Fox news... Fox has higher rating and is leading. Lex400sc stated CNN did. I disproved him.
Theres one for you.

Wow, what a shining accomplishment! A few months ago I would have been right. You reported on a dynamic statistic, and your version happened to be more up to date than mine. It's like me saying "the population of California is 31 million", and you replying, "no you're wrong it's 35 million now, hah I disproved you!!" Come on, are your accomplishments that far and few between? What about your statistic of Saddam murdering two million Iraqis? I'm still waiting for you to disprove me on that one... It's just a *slightly* more heavy statistic that network TV ratings, but just slightly though <sarcasm> ;).

Originally posted by lex400sc
Wow, what a shining accomplishment! A few months ago I would have been right. You reported on a dynamic statistic, and your version happened to be more up to date than mine. It's like me saying "the population of California is 31 million", and you replying, "no you're wrong it's 35 million now, hah I disproved you!!" Come on, are your accomplishments that far and few between? What about your statistic of Saddam murdering two million Iraqis? I'm still waiting for you to disprove me on that one... It's just a *slightly* more heavy statistic that network TV ratings, but just slightly though <sarcasm> ;).


Just 1 funny one. BTW its been that way for more than a year now.
Just for giggles, please quote where I state he had killed "2" Million of his own people. I don't want to go through the trouble of finding that exact quote. Thanks

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
BTW its been that way for more than a year now.

Here is the proof folks! I proudly proclaim that I don't give a flying fart about network television ratings, which also entitles me the proud title of not studying them and how they change either. http://www.intellexual.net/cl/biggrinflip.gif

I can list about 40 places that say the same thing posted below.

BTW again:

This diabolic dictator killed over two millions Muslims (Sunni, Shiites and Kurdish together) during his 24 years of despotic rule. He gassed tens of thousands of his own peoples (Kurdish muslims), killed/assassinated hundreds of thousands of his own muslim brothers, tortured/maimed/imprisoned tens of thousands of his own people. He even killed or imprisoned many of his own relatives. And he drove 500,000 thousands of his own citizens out of the country. Just other day a CNN reporter was interviewing one such Iraqi dissident (can not remember name, but he was a high level officer under Saddam’s Govt.). Reporter asked him if he was worried about many co-lateral damage/killings of civilian in Iraq during US intense bombing (daisy cutters). This Iraqi replied: “Saddam annihilated more than 2 millions Iraqi citizen (All Muslims) during his 23 years of dictatorial rule. Why should I be worried for a few thousands of collateral loss of lives to free Iraqi people from the cruel hands of Saddam?”
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/skm30401.htm

Originally posted by lex400sc
Here is the proof folks! I proudly proclaim that I don't give a flying fart about network television ratings, which also entitles me the proud title of not studying them and how they change either. http://www.intellexual.net/cl/biggrinflip.gif

Thats a real easy way out. Wonder if it will work on anything I might have been wrong about.
"I don't really care about it anyways.. so it doesn't matter what information you can come up with"

wow thats a bunch of B.S.:rolleyes: :nono: :argue:

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Thats a real easy way out. Wonder if it will work on anything I might have been wrong about.
"I don't really care about it anyways.. so it doesn't matter what information you can come up with"

wow thats a bunch of B.S.:rolleyes: :nono: :argue:

Here's the thing: who gives a crap about tv ratings? I have never ever cared about them. I still don't care about them. CNN is number one, now Fox is number one, who cares? What difference does it make? I don't care about mundane facts such as which 24-hour news network has a higher viewership. I don't even care now that I do know! You hold that one error of mine up as your trophy victory. Well if you're really that pathetic then I'll give it to you.... You were right about Fox having higher ratings. Congratulations, you're now the big kid on the block! Happy? Now go to a bar and celebrate....

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
I can list about 40 places that say the same thing posted below.

BTW again:

Please do list the 40 other places because the article that you linked from Faith Freedom International is the biggest load of crap ever. I've never heard a more opinionated piece passed off for news in my life. Here's the complete excerpt that you quoted...

Saddam Hossain is known as the most brutal, despotic tyrannical dictator of the century. There is no match or no parallel for him if we compare all the qualities of Saddam Hossain with any other despotic dictor. This diabolic dictator killed over two millions Muslims (Sunni, Shiites and Kurdish together) during his 24 years of despotic rule. He gassed tens of thousands of his own peoples (Kurdish muslims), killed/assassinated hundreds of thousands of his own muslim brothers, tortured/maimed/imprisoned tens of thousands of his own people. He even killed or imprisoned many of his own relatives. And he drove 500,000 thousands of his own citizens out of the country.

Saddam Hossain is known as the most brutal, despotic tyrannical dictator of the century. There is no match or no parallel for him if we compare all the qualities of Saddam Hossain with any other despotic dictor.

The idiot author must have forgotten about Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Abdullahi Yusef, Mohammed Farah Aidid, Slobodan Milosevic, Kim Jung-Il, etc, etc, etc

This diabolic dictator killed over two millions Muslims (Sunni, Shiites and Kurdish together) during his 24 years of despotic rule.

I'd like for this author to explain just how Saddam killed two million people. If he is referring to the two million Iraqis that died of diarrhea and malnutrition between 1991-2000, that was a result of United States-United Kingdom-led UN sanctions. The US and UK were the key sponsors of the sanctions that were directly responsible for starving out millions of displaced Iraqis.

He gassed tens of thousands of his own peoples (Kurdish muslims),

In truth, about 3,200 -7,000 died according to Kurdistan Regional Government figures. Not "tens of thousands". And Kurds aren't the same people as Sunnis, which is what Saddam is.

This is part of the problem in the Middle East and Africa. The western powers drew up arbitrary political borders in the Middle East and Africa, seperating some tribes and joining others together, then handing the power over to the most "west-friendly" tribe, who then goes about raising armies and exterminating the other tribes. If you want the brutal truth, we perpetuated the killings in the Middle East and Africa.

He even killed or imprisoned many of his own relatives.

To be fair, these were relatives by marriage, and they betrayed Saddam by giving intel to the CIA and fleeing the country. Plus they were stupid enough to return to Iraq and get executed for treason.

And he drove 500,000 thousands of his own citizens out of the country.

Would this be the half million refugees displaced by US bombing in Baghdad?


Are you using a toilet for a search engine? Can't you dig up a credible source of info? I doubt you'll find one if you keep looking for "Saddam killed two million Iraqis"

Originally posted by lex400sc
Please do list the 40 other places because the article that you linked from Faith Freedom International is the biggest load of crap ever. I've never heard a more opinionated piece passed off for news in my life. Here's the complete excerpt that you quoted...


I don't feel like posting them all, so look up "Saddam millions" in Google.... Read them yourself

sclexus3.0, it really is pretty entertaining getting into these little debates with you. Sometimes it honestly reminds me of arguing with my 11 year old cousin about his cheating when we play monopoly. While your busy trying find back up another claim that you have made to lex400sc that you cant prove, i'd like for you to prove one thing for me too...

Compare: you love to tell how many troops are being killed every day in Baghdad; do you realize that more people die every day in Washington than in Baghdad?

find one specific time that i have made mention of soldiers being killed in baghdad.....even though i do think that its insane of donald rumsfeld to try to use such a statistic to justify the death of soldiers in a country in which actual WARfare was declared over nearly 6 months ago....yes i do realize that more people die in Washington every day than in Baghdad because i heard the statement when rumsfeld released it months ago.....does this justify the deaths of our soldiers in your eyes? Does that statistic make it ok. The number of people dying is not the issue with me, or with most people i think. I believe it is the fact that soldiers are dying period, that soldiers are still over there, that Bush is such a miserable failure at diplomacy that our soldiers are and will continue to be over there ALONE for God knows how long. Who knows how many more will die? Oh, as long as more people are dying in DC everyday than in Baghdad, than it can't be that bad right?


"I can disagree with EVERYTHING you and Lex400sc Say and what might happen in this room, doesn’t mean I want to leave".

haha...sometimes i swear the most detrimental evidence against you is your own statements. Go read the first post of this thread. No, just go read the title of this thread. YOU are the one that insinuated the forum be closed, thus insinuating you didn't want to participate in the debates, thus insinuating you want to leave. Talk about SELF-INCRIMINATING. No one's telling you that you have to leave. Where in the heck did you pull that out of?

Originally posted by BAWLEX94
sclexus3.0, it really is pretty entertaining getting into these little debates with you. Sometimes it honestly reminds me of arguing with my 11 year old cousin about his cheating when we play monopoly. While your busy trying find back up another claim that you have made to lex400sc that you cant prove, i'd like for you to prove one thing for me too...
Well, first off, your no where near as challanging to come back against as Lex400sc... The fact that you have to have him reply to most of what you start is a little interesting. If you notice, most of your response posts tend to be followed by replys from Lex400sc and not much from your own creative thought. Why don't you create some more original thought instead of waiting for Lex400sc to create it for you, then just siding with what he says. The thing is, I challange anything you and Lex400sc say that I either don't agree with or have proof against. All of you do, on the other hand, tend to go off and research everything I say and try to liberize it and spin it against me. 4 on 1 fair odds.


Originally posted by BAWLEX94

find one specific time that i have made mention of soldiers being killed in baghdad.....even though i do think that its insane of donald rumsfeld to try to use such a statistic to justify the death of soldiers in a country in which actual WARfare was declared over nearly 6 months ago....yes i do realize that more people die in Washington every day than in Baghdad because i heard the statement when rumsfeld released it months ago.....does this justify the deaths of our soldiers in your eyes? Does that statistic make it ok. The number of people dying is not the issue with me, or with most people i think. I believe it is the fact that soldiers are dying period, that soldiers are still over there, that Bush is such a miserable failure at diplomacy that our soldiers are and will continue to be over there ALONE for God knows how long. Who knows how many more will die? Oh, as long as more people are dying in DC everyday than in Baghdad, than it can't be that bad right?
Your right, you didn't.. That was another one of Lex400sc's topics. My bad. By the way, don't EVER think I justify the deaths of our soldiers. That is the weakest blow you can throw. You really have come up with more weak points that anyone in this forum. You HAVE TO HAVE Lex400sc around to even begin to make a point. You and your liberal friends are just like the media and just like the points that are coming out now. You don't want to believe that we can be a good country, you want to think we are killing everyone just to be a brutal country. You don't care about the good things that are happening right now. You are very narrow minded. I made the point (probably 10 times now) that OUR ADMIN HAS MADE MISTAKES. THEY ARE NOT PERFECT. but you can't even think that we are doing ANYTHING right. You have so much to learn.



Originally posted by BAWLEX94

haha...sometimes i swear the most detrimental evidence against you is your own statements. Go read the first post of this thread. No, just go read the title of this thread. YOU are the one that insinuated the forum be closed, thus insinuating you didn't want to participate in the debates, thus insinuating you want to leave. Talk about SELF-INCRIMINATING. No one's telling you that you have to leave. Where in the heck did you pull that out of?

Well, someone change the title a little bit. That last part of it was added on after I posted, and not by me. And read the follow ups. I would love to have a Private Forum somewhere else on the net to exchange these debates. BECAUSE THEY REALLY DO NOT BELONG IN CLUBLEXUS. THATS MY POINT. :egads:

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
You don't want to believe that we can be a good country, you want to think we are killing everyone just to be a brutal country.

I don't want to believe that we can be a good country???? Well hell, if I think this country is only capable of evil, like you said, then what is the point of debating anything?!

Since you know me so well and are able to speak for me so freely, I'd like for you to also tell me why in god's name I would want to believe the United States is evil? I am a United States citizen, born and raised. The United States' image reflects on me and I on it. Why would I *want* it to be evil? Hell I was born in Texas, the homestate of George Bush. Why would I *want* to criticize him when he reflects on Texans and ultimately upon me? Tell me what is my reasoning and rationale for wanting things to be this way? You can pin me down so perfectly, it should be a breeze explaining the logic of it all.

Let me ask you something: do you think I have a problem expressing my thoughts and opinions up-front and straight-forward? Don't you think if I really hated this country and thought it was pure evil, that I would say so instead of clarifying that I love this country every time you make up your lies about me? Do I come off as a pretender, an imposter, a faker? I don't need a spokesperson, so speak for yourself.

Your mentality is so twisted that you are beginning to think that everyone else thinks just like you. This will probably be the tenth, but not last, time I have to tell you this, but disliking the politicians that run our nation, their policies, and their actions, is not equivalent to disliking the country they represent. Would I be un-Californian if I didn't like Gray Davis? Would I be un-German if I didn't idolize Hitler? Would you be un-American because you criticise Bill Clinton?

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
You don't care about the good things that are happening right now.

Why's that? Because I don't post happy-go-lucky threads in the *Debate* forum? What is there to debate about good news? "NEWSFLASH: War veteran wins lottery" --- hey, let's debate this piece of news! That way SCLexus3.0 will get the impression that I care about the good things that are happenening. It may be the world's crappiest debate, but hey, as long as SCLexus starts thinking highly of me, I'll do the most asinine thing it takes!

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
You are very narrow minded.

Coming from you!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!! http://www.intellexual.net/cl/rofl.gif

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
I made the point (probably 10 times now) that OUR ADMIN HAS MADE MISTAKES. THEY ARE NOT PERFECT. but you can't even think that we are doing ANYTHING right. You have so much to learn.

This is just about the only admission you are willing to make against Bush: "He's not perfect" "He's only human" "He can make mistakes". And you call everyone else blind :rolleyes:. It really is unfortunate that you are so adamant in your ways. Everyone else can see it but you. Every time you use the word "blind" against someone else, it's a gigantic joke because you are the most blind of all. You take criticism against Bush personally as if people were making fun of your dad. Hell you even made the freudian slip of saying "we are doing anything right". "We"? Are you in the Bush Administration? LOL! Maybe that's where the problem lies. You are so blindly allegant to Bush that you take offense to anything that would damage his reputation, or rather "your reputations". And you are in deep denial by thinking that Bush is doing 90% of everything right. Have you seen his horrid environmental record? What about his domestic policies? What about economic policy? What about foreign policy? Where are you getting 90% from?!?!??!!

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
I would love to have a Private Forum somewhere else on the net to exchange these debates. BECAUSE THEY REALLY DO NOT BELONG IN CLUBLEXUS. THATS MY POINT. :egads:

Well your point is shared by no one but yourself, so let's just put that one to rest right here.

I would love to have a Private Forum somewhere else on the net to exchange these debates. BECAUSE THEY REALLY DO NOT BELONG IN CLUBLEXUS. THATS MY POINT.

hmmmmm,.... I'm curious what the difference would be, if we, the same members of CL logged into your forum,... had it out over there,... and then signed back in over here,... as if that would change anything,... same people, same views, different location to debate, and then to later reconvene at CL as if someone is goin' to respect you over here simply cuz you debated at www.debateforum.com?? Most members here are known over the net at other sites, cuz they use the same handles,... so when a buster who is really a poser, imitator, imposter get busted for fraud at one site, his name is mud every where,... so I don't see how that would do anything to help anybody's cause, yours specificly.

I'm like this,... take lexus400sc for example.... you can backtrack posts between us where we agreed and disagreed, and never once have we ever crossed the line of walkin' away as if I ever saw him, he had a beatdown coming, or I wanted to go on an internet forum name bashing campaign....

Lexus owners drive cars that required in most cases, a head with a brain in it and a pocket with some change in them with it to acquire, so any time you got more than one brain congregating anywhere at the same time, there is goin' to be a debate, difference of opinion, and challenge.... so get used to it.

:boring:

SCLexus3.0 - you started a thread here basically saying all debate usually degrades into personal attacks, and then you get all bent out of shape when responding to lex400sc's FIRST post here and I for one didn't think his post was out of line. You jumped all over him when he tried hard to, as he put it, just make observations. You need to look at your first response to his post in this thread because it was way out of line and sounded like a spoiled 9 year old I'm afraid.

Focus on the facts of the debate, not whether you think the person who posted things you don't agree with is a doofus. Oh and stop being so thin-skinned.

sclexus3.0

let me make these points really slowly, and clearly, so that you won't miss anything. You proved your level of intelligence to me on one of the first post i ever read of yours here at CL. You made an insane comment, that Conservatives are more intelligent than Democrats, which led to a big debate on how baseless your remark was. From that day, I knew that there was no way i was dealing with a Big hot shot corporate attorney like you say. I unlike you, am honest here on CL when i say that im a junior undergrad student majoring in Poli Sci and with intentions to go to law school. You have illustrated repeatedly that you clearly know very little of what your speaking about, by shooting off a comment that you basically pull verbatim from some article you read somewhere, then posting the article so that we can all see how it was no idea of your own. No i don't post many ideas in rebuttle to you remarks, because they are so insanely laughable that i see no reason. Please point out to me one time that i have called on lex400sc to help me out. Because i havent. Can i help that the two of us have somewhat similar political views and he chooses to follow up sometimes after i post something? If you haven't noticed, i post well less then half of the number of times you post on CL, which accounts for my miniscule 400 posts. This should ring some sort of a bell with you. It should tell you that with me, unlike you, TIME is an issue. So half of the time that i have read one of your comments, lex400sc or any number of members on CL have already lambasted you for it, and we're onto another thread. But believe me, when i get the chance to respond to something you have said without 12 other people having already done it, then i jump on it. Please show me where i have asked for his help. So what do you mean "I have to have him reply"? When have I done that? See, i believe your major fault to be that you think of scenarios in your head and then type them down without stopping to think. Lex400sc is an incredible thought organizer, which is why he has so much to say. If he says exactly what i could before i can do it, then why should i say anything else. I have proven myself here on CL ,i believe, to know what im talking about when i say something. To me, you haven't.

Your right, you didn't.. That was another one of Lex400sc's topics. My bad. By the way, don't EVER think I justify the deaths of our soldiers. That is the weakest blow you can throw. You really have come up with more weak points that anyone in this forum. You HAVE TO HAVE Lex400sc around to even begin to make a point. You and your liberal friends are just like the media and just like the points that are coming out now. You don't want to believe that we can be a good country, you want to think we are killing everyone just to be a brutal country. You don't care about the good things that are happening right now. You are very narrow minded. I made the point (probably 10 times now) that OUR ADMIN HAS MADE MISTAKES. THEY ARE NOT PERFECT. but you can't even think that we are doing ANYTHING right. You have so much to learn.


OH MY GOD...you really are the boy WHO CRIED LIBERAL. oh no stop, stop using such a bad bad word. What am i lead to believe your point in posting that Rumsfeld comment was, because you still haven't explained, even after I have asked. Rather than that, you have to get on a soapbox and say "how dare i....".....spare me from your preaching. And don't act so holier than thou (oh no i accused a conservative of not caring about our troops, something liberals are accused of daily), because you still haven't told me your reason. You said....basically "more people die in DC everyday than those over in Baghdad"...so what are you insinuating.....do you feel that the death's in Baghdad should be of less importance, or less significance, since more people die in DC...again, start thinking before you start typing. I wasn't throwing a blow at you, so you calling my remark weak is yet another baseless remark on your behalf. I merely WANT TO KNOW....what was the point in bringing up that statistic???? And again, you want to bring up lex400sc replying to what i have to say.....WHY????? quote me when i said.."help me lex400sc" :rolleyes:

in other words, if i ever read a comment of yours that seems like it wasn't posted by a 5th grader, then i'll consider responding. But it really is like explaining politics to an 11 year old sometimes

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Well, someone change the title a little bit. That last part of it was added on after I posted, and not by me.

It wasn't me :). But I did want to confirm that the title was changed by a moderator to make it reflect the topic being discussed in the thread.

Guys, please keep this civil and a little less personal than it is now. I will again offer to remove forum view access for anyone that does not want to see the debate forum. It appear as if it does not exist.

A few things..

I have not stated that I am a "big shot corporate attorney". I have stated however that I have attended Law school and have a Degree in Corporate Law from UF, I also have a degree in Engineering from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University. I am the EP/CEO (Partner) in a Consulting and IT Computer/Security Company. This came from my engineering background, not my legal background. Law was an interest I held for a short time and even almost changed before receiving my degree do to lack of interest in wanting to pursue a career in it..

Please be a little bit more respectful and considerate, as this is the position I have chosen to take as well.

If you wish to degrade this forum even more by point personal attacks shots at me continuously, you may, but I choose to back off and revert to the original intentions of this forum.

Sorry if you are offended by this or anything I have said in the past.

BTW: Please read my newest thread "Thoughts in a nutshell"

Thanks

i apologize for attacking you, but i wonder what you expected when you make comments that are completely unfounded. You suggested that i wasn't smart enough to come up with my own ideas ( by saying that i call on lex400sc everytime i post, which is actually something i have NEVER done) when I've only really responded to one of your posts as to the intelligence level of democrats and republicans...i wanted to point out that i know more then you might think, and in the process i pointed out what i thought was wrong with your posts. I didnt mean for it to be a personal attack, but i felt like that was what you were doing to me. I'll call truce. I guess in order to make you think i do have my own responses to things, i need to stick around CL more often so i can comment before the subject is changed.

later

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
Well, someone change the title a little bit. That last part of it was added on after I posted, and not by me.


I did. it was the second sentence in your OP.



SCLexus3.0
Lead Lap
Ending Of ALL Debates
I think I am going to be the first to say this.

I think this debate forum should be closed. Because of a few reasons..

Originally posted by BAWLEX94
i apologize for attacking you, but i wonder what you expected when you make comments that are completely unfounded. You suggested that i wasn't smart enough to come up with my own ideas ( by saying that i call on lex400sc everytime i post, which is actually something i have NEVER done) when I've only really responded to one of your posts as to the intelligence level of democrats and republicans...i wanted to point out that i know more then you might think, and in the process i pointed out what i thought was wrong with your posts. I didnt mean for it to be a personal attack, but i felt like that was what you were doing to me. I'll call truce. I guess in order to make you think i do have my own responses to things, i need to stick around CL more often so i can comment before the subject is changed.

later

I apologize for anything I said that might have offended you or anyone else in this forum (or any others for that matter). I guess its that need to "Always have the last word" that is my biggest problem. When all is said and done though, I do very much respect you and everyone else who posts opinions on here for one reason more than anything: It tells me that some people at least want to become involved with that’s going on it this country and this world. My views are not the same as many others, but its good to know that when it all comes down to it, that’s what makes this country great.

We are so much alike, because in the end, we are all driven by one continuous goal and motive... to increase our Posting Number....:D Shoot, this forum has brought mine up from 200 too over 700 in a few months.

what good is a debate forum with no debates.....

:argue:

for some, this may be the brink of a paradigm shift,... for some, a testing ground for shaky ideas that no one in person would listen to, nor respect,... and for others,... just a plain jain playpen to rile people up in.

all right,... gloves back on...no blows below tha belt... ROUND 12! FIGHT!!!!:sai:

It is very hard not to laugh at the irony of a thread that starts with the suggestion that the debate forum be eliminated, but then draws the thread's originator into a debate.

See? I failed. I am laughing at the irony.

Originally posted by SCLexus3.0
We are so much alike, because in the end, we are all driven by one continuous goal and motive... to increase our Posting Number....:D Shoot, this forum has brought mine up from 200 too over 700 in a few months.

Yeah, just pray this forum is never closed, because if it is closed, it will be deleted, and with it all the intelligent discourse, as well as, of course, our post counts. Take it from someone that lost nearly 1000 posts from the dissolution of the Iraq Forums :(.


PS: Props for the sincere effort to start debating in a more civilized manner. Trust me, it is harder than you may think. It took me about two years to tone myself down to what I am today. Can you imagine what I was like then?! Bit knows! ;) It's not all that bad though. When you lower your voice, you're able to hear others more clearly, and sometimes others have something worth hearing!

I really don't like having to insult you and others back, because when I attack others I'm also attacking my own respectability; However, sometimes people need to be humbled so that healthy discussions can develop. When I become the target of attacks, I can not resist the urge to defend my word either. I'm much more agreeable when people express their opinions with some humility. Once we've all stripped ourselves of pride and arrogance, we can start the process of learning :).

Group hug? :hug: :D

Originally posted by bitkahuna
Group hug? :hug: :D

Amen :) Glad everything is solved :thumbup:

So what is the next topic for debate? :D
I have been learning so much in this forum. I am also amazed that you guys have so much knowledge about what is going on in our country or even in the world. :thumbup:

Originally posted by jpa2400
When it all comes down to it, we are all Lexus enthusiasts, if you have to take it that personal just stay out off this forum, I think Dave even offered to change it so you won't even see it. Disagreement is healthy, a wonderful part of being in this country, but set your views aside, are all family here.

:)