Since certain people seem to think that if you say anything about anybody, you must be a racist, I want to post a few articles that explain my "ass-backwards" statement

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/09/0925_TVkoran.html

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/islamic010914.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,888846,00.html

http://www.emayhem.org/serious/10388088932.shtml

The bible of the Muslim people is about peace and brotherly love. In the previous post we were talking about the bombing of innocent people, and the attack on more innocent people, which in essence is against what their book says. Now, the "ass-backwards" statement comes from the extremists that are leading the attacks. It not your ordinary person in any country in any part of the world that feels the urge to just go out and kill someone. The people that are attack the embassies, kidnapping visitors, bombing buildings, and flat out murdering non-Muslims are the people who's belief system has been turned upside down. Typically, people go to religion because there is something they don't understand in life, and religion fills that void. Well, in the case of some people, men like Bin Laden find them and fill them with their own translation of the message and use them as soldiers to fight their personal battles. These people live with their hearts and emotions, not their minds and rational thinking. The essentially become lemmings. That is what happens when your entire education, religion, and way of life is controlled by these powerful dictators. Now all it takes is for someone to piss off the leader, and he sends his weakminded lemmings after them, and they become terrorists. Now tell me, is it not backwards when a very small minority can take an otherwise peaceful belief system, distort it, and use it to control a large majority to do hateful things against other people?

I've never heard a more distorted account of history in my life. Actually I probably have, but this comes close. First of all, don't church up your past remarks. In the thread you speak of, you said this:

Originally posted by SDuquette
maybe next time the investigators need a couple Hummers armed with some .50 machine guns and a couple soldiers to clear the way. They throw stones, we can throw bullets. It's not our fault their part of the world is ass-backward. Then again you shouldn't expect a bunch of un-educated cave people to understand why we do what we do, we probably accidently bombed one of their goats or something, if it had been a woman it would have been alright.

What now is the parallel between angry protestors and terrorist bombers? Didn't ethnic minorities protest with rocks in America? Didn't gay minorities protest with rocks in America? Didn't colonial patriots protest with rocks in America/ Does that make them all bin-Ladenesque? You make the fatal error of aligning angry protestors with deadly terrorists. Then you make the extremely juvenile comment that we should just kill them all because they are uneducated cave people. You also make the false vindication that "It's not our fault their part of the world is ass-backward. " And thus I retorted 'study history harder'. Do you think Muslims have always been violent and self-destructive? I sure hope not. And I hope you are able to discover what made them that way. You also make this shining comment: "you shouldn't expect a bunch of un-educated cave people to understand why we do what we do". Ironically enough, that statement applies to you more so than it does to them. You think that projecting your own culture and values is noble and justified because they are noble and justified themself. This is true, for you, and you alone. How would you like it if the Saudi Arabian army came into America and overthrew our democracy subjecting you to Islamic Law. And how would you feel if they accomplished this feat with a great level of success? Now take whatever feeling of wronging you have and switch roles with the angry Palestinian "cave people".

Now, on to your post above.

Originally posted by SDuquette
The bible of the Muslim people is about peace and brotherly love. In the previous post we were talking about the bombing of innocent people, and the attack on more innocent people, which in essence is against what their book says. Now, the "ass-backwards" statement comes from the extremists that are leading the attacks.

Yes and Hitler used the Bible and the Catholic Church to justify his crusade. The Ku Klux Klan also use the Christian God to preach Aryan supremacy. Point is that fanatics and extremists exist on every end of every spectrum in the world. Your mistake is in generalizing all Arabs as extremists just because their cultures differ from yours and you are unable to comprehend or accept it.

Originally posted by SDuquette
No, cavemen probably treated their women better and most likely had more freedoms, since they didn't have dictators controlling they see, learned and did.

And actually, you act as if Arab states are the only governments guilty of controlled thought. What do you think of Italy? Or Japan? In modern day Italy, media and thought is controlled by one man: Silvio Berlusconi, the mass media titan of Italy. Japan's media control is about as tight-lipped as China's. The United States in fact has a very unhealthy media itself. Certainly not up to world-class standards. The very fact that you think the way you do for the reasons you do is proof of that.

Originally posted by SDuquette
It not your ordinary person in any country in any part of the world that feels the urge to just go out and kill someone.

Very true. America has a mysteriously high crime rate. We encounter more murders per year, 11,800-something, than the rest of the civilized world combined. Now SCLexus might take this statement as me being American-bashing and un-American, but I assure you I am just using this example to put into perspective the nature of the situation. We see Muslims as savages because people get killed and people die all the time in car bomb attacks etc. But that is dwarfed in comparison to the number of Americans killed by less politically-motivated reasons, such as greed, sadism, hate and bigotry, ego, etc. Murder is senseless in any fashion, but there are still degrees of aversion, and I think killing for greed ranks at top. Arab-Muslim societies are much more peaceful than American society, surprisingly. The zealous violence phenomenon comes into play when we plant a heavily-armed, uninhibited Juda-Christian government right on top of their sacred holy lands, which then expands by annexing neighboring lands.

Originally posted by SDuquette
The people that are attack the embassies, kidnapping visitors, bombing buildings, and flat out murdering non-Muslims are the people who's belief system has been turned upside down.

Or maybe they believe the system has been turned upside down. When people feel they've lost the connection to government, lost their voice, lost their ability to effect change, they often times get desperate. When you can't affect change traditionally, you withdraw consent and dissent to more rash means of political efficacy (ie: bombing). Unfortunately for them, they don't realise that dealing with hardliner conservatives, the violence will never end. It will perpetuate until the last body has fallen. Conservatives, conversely are guilty of the same myopia.

Originally posted by SDuquette
Typically, people go to religion because there is something they don't understand in life, and religion fills that void.

That's at least how the religious see it. The leaders on the other hand see religion as a useful tool. Bush has used religion to build a cohesive base of supporters. Although he hasn't used religion as a weapon of death. Well, depending on how you see it...

Originally posted by SDuquette
These people live with their hearts and emotions, not their minds and rational thinking. The essentially become lemmings.

I'm sorry but that sounds funny coming from you. You and others can be charged of the same crime.

Originally posted by SDuquette
Now all it takes is for someone to piss off the leader, and he sends his weakminded lemmings after them, and they become terrorists.

Actually, the way it works is that these leaders, such as bin Laden, gain their power because someone, such as the United States, has pissed off so many people. Only then does he become a leader. Bin Laden is an opportunist who sees Middle Eastern plight, misery, and desperation---largely perpetuated by Western Powers---he then finds those infected with resentment and hate and solidifies his reign over them with religious doctrines to build an army of terrorists. But in order for all this to happen, someone else must have caused a great offense to them to begin with.

Originally posted by SDuquette
Now tell me, is it not backwards when a very small minority can take an otherwise peaceful belief system, distort it, and use it to control a large majority to do hateful things against other people?
A large majority of Muslims and Islamists are not compelled by a very small minority to do hateful things. It is a very, very small minority with "backwards" beliefs that do hateful things. ;) Anyways, I think it is backwards for a people distort an otherwise peaceful religion to conduct hateful acts, this has been done for centuries by people of every religion :(

Originally posted by 93LexoGS300
A large majority of Muslims and Islamists are not compelled by a very small minority to do hateful things. It is a very, very small minority with "backwards" beliefs that do hateful things. ;) Anyways, I think it is backwards for a people distort an otherwise peaceful religion to conduct hateful acts, this has been done for centuries by people of every religion :(

That was exactly my point, but that is what we are facing now, and on a much larger scale than abortion clinic bombers. The crusades and Hitler were atrocities too, but they are over, and their "jihad" is now. I never said once that Arab people are bad, I said the people who are attacking innocent people are bad, and their cause is in the name of a religion, but that religion is against what they are doing. I feel that there are intelligent, enterprising people all over the world, but there is enough irrational extremists to keep the ordinary people of that area from living happy and prosperous lives. Anyone who values the freedom we are lucky to have, is a traitor and an enemy to the extremists. This war was never about fighting the ordinary Arab people, the war is about the extremists, and just like any war, it's going to piss off the other extremists because they can't win, well, unless they find a way to nuke or poison and kill the entire US, but that is what they wanted before the war too.

What now is the parallel between angry protestors and terrorist bombers? Didn't ethnic minorities protest with rocks in America? Didn't gay minorities protest with rocks in America? Didn't colonial patriots protest with rocks in America/ Does that make them all bin-Ladenesque? You make the fatal error of aligning angry protestors with deadly terrorists. Then you make the extremely juvenile comment that we should just kill them all because they are uneducated cave people. You also make the false vindication that "It's not our fault their part of the world is ass-backward. " And thus I retorted 'study history harder'. Do you think Muslims have always been violent and self-destructive? I sure hope not. And I hope you are able to discover what made them that way. You also make this shining comment: "you shouldn't expect a bunch of un-educated cave people to understand why we do what we do". Ironically enough, that statement applies to you more so than it does to them. You think that projecting your own culture and values is noble and justified because they are noble and justified themself. This is true, for you, and you alone. How would you like it if the Saudi Arabian army came into America and overthrew our democracy subjecting you to Islamic Law. And how would you feel if they accomplished this feat with a great level of success? Now take whatever feeling of wronging you have and switch roles with the angry Palestinian "cave people".

So should the millions of Californians have stoned Gray Davis to death to get him out of office? There is a difference between a peaceful protest and a violent one. Gay minorites throwing rocks are violent, ethnic minorities throwing rocks are violent, be it whether they are protesting or not, and should be dealt with accordingly. Violence in protesting is used to scare people from continuing with their lives as normal, isn't that the whole purpose of terrorism?

I don't think Muslims in, by nature, are violent and self-destructive, I think there are power-hungry leaders that would like to make it that way, but that is purely for their personal acquisition of more power. Just like anything, if you want to keep control people, keep them poor and stupid, and feed them only the information that supports you are your cause.

gotta go to work, later

So should the millions of Californians have stoned Gray Davis to death to get him out of office? There is a difference between a peaceful protest and a violent one

Wasn't Kennedy assasinated???

What about Lincoln???

They tried to kill Reagan,...

so I don't think peace is always the option American's use to remove people from office. Hell, someone threw an egg at Arnold,... ( who would be that crazy,... riskin' an azzwhoopin' from him,.. I'd pass )

Civility?? Lets see,...American's riot over who won a dam football game/ baseball game and will tear a whole city up... I watch those infamous cop flicks all the time they gotta break up some melee for somethin' stupid..like Mardi Gras, or when the Klu Klux Klan is marching in San Antoinio,. Hell, not so long ago, I watched a guy get pulled over in Louisiana on his cel phone get shot 9 times in the back for a traffic violation, not to mention a black man who was walkin' home in Jasper Tx get adbucted, chained to the back of a pickup truck and drug till his body came apart for the fun of it... and now recently, a black mentally retarded guy was invited to a all white party so they could beat him ( i believe this was in dallas last week or the week before ),... so just there, shows people are imposing their beliefs on others all the time,... just at different scales, different magnitudes, for different reasons all the time.

Originally posted by SDuquette
So should the millions of Californians have stoned Gray Davis to death to get him out of office?

You are comparing quite different scenarios. People were anger at Davis because he allegedly led our economy downhill. No big deal. We don't like that and we want him gone, but no big deal. Instances where Blacks, Mexicans, Native Americans, Gays, and American colonisers bagan violently protesting were when they were being oppressed. Oppression is a funny thing, it hurts you and your people just for being who your are, it singles you out from the rest of society, and there is nothing you can do about it politically or civilly because, well, it's oppression! I'm not advocating that it is right to hurt, maim, or kill because you're being oppressed, but that's simply what people do. Palestinians are being oppressed by Israel and internationally they are gaining major support from the United States for doing so. The United States single-handedly gave Israel immunity from the United Nations by rubber stamping away 31 broken UNSC resolutions. I'd say that's a pretty strong sign of allegance to the Israeli government and their anti-Muslim policies. Did you know that if you're a Israeli Jew living in Israel, and you marry a Palestinian Muslim, you lose your Israeli citizenship and are forced to move out of Israel? That's a law in Israel. One of many oppression laws they have.

Originally posted by SDuquette
There is a difference between a peaceful protest and a violent one. Gay minorites throwing rocks are violent, ethnic minorities throwing rocks are violent, be it whether they are protesting or not, and should be dealt with accordingly. Violence in protesting is used to scare people from continuing with their lives as normal, isn't that the whole purpose of terrorism?

Palestinians throwing rocks at US Investigators is like Blacks throwing rocks at riot police. It isn't targetted terrorism. It's the fact that disliked people put themselves in a bad position at a time of sensitivity and are asking for it. When a Marlins fan is dressed up in Marlins attire and walks down Manhattan minutes after the Yankees lose the World Series, he is asking for trouble. And the difference between peaceful protests and violent ones is often the cause they are fighting for and the organizers of the protest. Gandhi was a rare and successful peaceful protestor, but even then he was murdered. Same with Martin Luther King Jr.---and he supposedly peacefully protested in the most open-minded, free-thinking nation in the world.

Originally posted by SDuquette
I don't think Muslims in, by nature, are violent and self-destructive,

That certainly wasn't the impression I got from your previous posts.

Originally posted by SDuquette
I think there are power-hungry leaders that would like to make it that way, but that is purely for their personal acquisition of more power. Just like anything, if you want to keep control people, keep them poor and stupid, and feed them only the information that supports you are your cause.

And who do you think empowered these despicable leaders? Saddam was a member of the Sunni minority, yet he came to power and ruled over the Shi'a majority that doubled his people's population. The Reagan Administration was one of the biggest military and financial supporters of Iraq. Then there's Iran where we staged a coup against the democratically elected Ayatollah and installed the oppressive Shah regime. How many times did we do this in the Middle East? And in Central and South America? More than I can count on two hands....