jrock65

Car and Driver $55K sedan comparo:

1. M45 (219 points)
2. RL (215 points)
3. GS430 (208 points)
4. E350 (202 points)
5. A6 (199 points)
6. 530i (198 points
7. STS (191 points)
8. S-type (181 points)

"The M45 rocks. Game over."

http://secure.grubbs.com/cardriver.pdf

LexFather

Thanks for the review, saw this coming. Congrats to the M45. RL as 2nd= but overall for the money, the Japanese DESTROYED the Germans. Its not even funny or close.

flipside909

Haha not really. We already know C/D is biased. We'll have to see what the other comparisons will say. Too early to tell at this point. I have no doubt in my mind who would be the sales king of the GS, RL and M. The M45 is definitely the performance oriented vehicle of the bunch. It did so well, it put the 5 series to shame.

Ultrasonic

It's a good article. I guess it just depends on your priorities.

jrock65

That's the thing I immediately noticed. That the top 3 were Japanese, and the next 3 were German. Just a year ago, the Japanese weren't even on the radar in this segment.

But no doubt, the E and the 5 will continue to be sales leaders, followed by the GS. I doubt that the M will sell more than the GS. Image and prestige counts for a lot in this segment.

STIG

C/D is biased? please explain how so...

i thought you guys said C/D always bimmer biased? but it ranked 6th ?

LexFather

If this thread turns into a pissing contest, it will be closed faster than the GS 430 or M45 goes 0-60....

Gojirra99

I think he meant C/D always heavily biased towards performance/handling, which is true.They can acknowledge the strengths of the other cars in their comparisons, but when they rank at the end, they base it on performance.
As for the bimmer placing 6th, it's not surprising(it's ugly too ), it's only the I6 530i, I think they should have tested the 545i & E500 in this comparison & adjust for price in their rankings instead.

flipside909

I never said that. I've said in the past that C/D has mostly been biased against Toyota and it shows in many comparisons where other publications say on the contrary. It's pretty obvious and it's not just this article.

DrewSRX

I don't think anyone is surprised that the M45 came in first, it is the most driver oriented and C&D loves drivers cars.

I think that Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti owners/fans should all rejoice. They were the TOP 3 cars!

Personally, I would like to see everyone get along, Japan has cars to be very proud of.

A few year ago, this would be unheard of!

Guy Legend

Funny, I was predicting this exact finish, with possible exception of the Audi and BMW. But they were only seperated by one point.

I'm glad to see the overpriced, unreliable German machines get trounced by the new Japanese luxury cars.

The M, RL, and GS each deserved their respective finishes.

chicagoblknazn

let's behave bois......

LexFather

I agree with the 2nd paragraph, disagree with the first. The GS welcomes the M and RL to the party. The GS has been around since 1993 and did impact this segment with the 2GS starting in 1998. The GS opened the doors for the M and RL.

LexFather

Yes, please. I know I said it, the M will win mag comparos b/c they pick the sportiest cars. The M is clearly the sportiest. Lets hope this can translate into some sales for Infiniti.

Also, looking at the first couple paragraphs, the cars were based on price. a 55k price cap. They wanted to base the comparo on engines (looks like V-8) but b/c the Acura RL is V-6 only , the comparo was changed to price, which they admit, hurt the Germans. Other things I noticed

Sad but the STS is also BRAND NEW and finished 2nd to last.
The V-8 Audi 4.2 A6 finished 5th. So not sure if V-8s in the E or 5 would have helped.
The S-type has finished last in every comparison in every magazine the past few years. Pathetic.
The 5 has gone from magazine darling "always #1" to just another car. Sad, and I think the styling has more to do with it than they say.

jrock65

Yep, the '98 GS came out and did pretty well, selling about 30,000 per year for the first few years, which is basically the sales target of the 2006 GS. But Toyota let the model run too long (8 years), so in the past couple years, the GS was an afterthought in this segment.

GFerg

Saw that coming from a mile away. Still not liking the RL exterior styling that much. Every car here is deserving of there spot. Well, mabe seeing the BMW a few spots up would have been better. Good job to all cars.

Like I said before, this is the best year to shop for a 40-60K Sports Sedan. All of them are so great.

XeroK00L

Just wanted make everyone perfectly aware that this comparo has a price bracket of $55k. The "ultimate driving machine" BMW 530i got the lowest score in performance because it had to compete with those V-8 vehicles with a "wimpy" (in C/D wording) and soon-to-be-replaced 3.0L I-6, while it could have entered the comparo with the 545i if the price bracket were instead set just a notch higher at $56k, the base price of the 545i.

Now that I've got this out (whew), to the big win of the Japanese cars. The sport sedan segment is now officially NOT an exclusive arena to the Germans any longer!

STIG

i had no intention to **** anyone on this fourm. i respect everyone on this board.

for M45 and i think RL deserves the 2nd place for its price.

spwolf

nice comparo! It shows you exactly what both GS and M45 are... checking handling figures for M45 tells you what M45 Sports is, and just check the difference in noise as well - GS430 is incredibly less noisy than everything else.

GS430 scored well in performance tests as well, pretty impressive power

Pretty good and expected from CD, which rates performance first - I didnt think GS would rate this well because of CD hating VDIM or VSC-type devices that cant be turned off.

Only thing that bothers me is that you cant really get M45 Sport for less than 55k, and in that sense, Acura should have won according to numbers themselves. Infiniti sending models that you cant buy is pretty despictable ordeal... Although I dont see RL performing that well according to that test - GS430 has it beaten in everything...

jrock65

"Only thing that bothers me is that you cant really get M45 Sport for less than 55k, and in that sense, Acura should have won according to numbers themselves."

I'm confused by this. The price of the M45 Sport with the Journey package (as equipped in the comparo) is $52,460. You add the Navi and it's still under $55,000. The current real world price is pretty much MSRP, and there are plenty of M45 Sports in dealer inventories in my area that have MSRPs of under $55k.

D2-AUTOSPORT

Cant wait to get htis issue! The RL > GS is kinda perplexing to me as well. I knew that M45 was going to be a force to reckoned with. Lately it seems that Infiniti is the new BMW in alot of these comparos (taking home the prizes!)

spwolf

really now? 2 weeks ago, I checked 3 dealer inventories in SoCal, and among 100 M's, cheapest M45 was 54.6k (and thats amonth both Sport and Non-Sport versions). It seems that they recently started getting "base" M's as well...

dseag2

Well, the RL did earn a "10" for fit/finish and the GS earned a "9", so I don't think price totally dictated the order.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I have a serious problem with the RL garnering 9 out of 10 possible points for exterior styling. Who was in charge of the grading? A blind person?

SCWells72

While this is an interesting comparison, I'm really looking forward to the no price cap V8 vs. V8 comparison that will upgrade the 530i to the 545i and the E350 to the E500. While those cars will get dinged in the "bang-for-your-buck" category relative to the Japanese sedans, I'm willing to bet the overall arragement will change quite a bit.

I was actually looking at the M45 and GS430 side-by-side online today and trying to decide which I'd get if I were in the market. As always with these two brands, the Infiniti's performance and handling is more attractive, but the Lexus's interior really does it for me. And I have to admit that I really like the idea of the adjustable suspension so that when I'm just cruising, things are comfy, but when I want to play, it's just a few ticks off from my previous L-Tuned GS (or so I've read). The GS also rings in a few $K more expensive when you load them both out, but that gorgeous interior is just about worth the difference. It really is a hard call.

Maybe in a couple of years when I've worn myself out on the S4's standard tranny and firm ride, after the GS450h has been introduced and the M45 can be had on VPP (of which my wife is a member), I'll look back into these types of cars. Be interesting to see which way I go...

rogers2

From the picture a few white guys. Just kidding
I really thought the gs430 was going to come in 2nd place. I here people complaining about the bmw being a 6 cylinders or Inline 6. Is it our fault bmw is overcharging people?

LexFather

I'm sorry but Car and Driver had to protect their RL 10 best winner in this comparo. Picked above the GS 430, I don't think so. Fit and Finish better, I dont' think so. Exterior styling a 9, they must be blind. They have the GS and RL the identical "got to have it factor" score but lookiing around no one has got to have the RL. They also gave a 9 to the GS 8 for ergonomics, which is to me.The RL scored a big 6 points for price (of course, value) but the M45 a 17 tied with the STS. The M45 was 51k for a V-8, clearly the value winner.

I know your going to run cry about my comments on your Acura forum so go ahead. But IMO, I can understand the M45 winning this comparo, the RL 2nd= .

STIG

i heard it was a blind folded chimpanzee ranking at pitchblack midnight.

seriously, eventho RL's a great car, it did not deserve 9 for the exterior styling, but then there was 7 points gap between 2nd and 3rd place.

LexFather

You cannot blame Car and Driver for protecting their pick. They would look foolish, picking the RL as the 10 best luxury sedan then it gets beat by 2 cars in its first comparo. BTW, I fully see the new Infintii M joining that list. Not sure why the G35 was kicked off, and the TSX put on there. But those guys love them some Accord/Honda, no matter the name or size.

Car and Driver might has rushed this to be the 1st mag with this great comparo. B/C it would have been nice to see what the new BMW I-6 can do.

rogers2

In all honest 1SICKLEX I'll probably pick the GS430 over the RL but I think you’re in denied about the fit & finish of the new RL. Acura has step up their interior recently. Well just last week the GS came in 1st place so every dog has its day. Why is everyone busting on the RL? Why not bust on the M45, just last week the car came in 3rd place.

HemantS

The A6 really looks ugly in that colour from that angle. Like an inflated Passat on steroids.

Now that I know the GS450h is RWD, I really hope Infiniti brings out an M45X. That will be my next car!

Guy Legend

That's not the case at all. Recall that Caranddriver ranked the Nissan Titan ahead of the F-150 in the truck comparo, but then placed the F-150 on the 5 best truck list.

Besides, a 1 point difference wouldn't signify protecting anything. The RL's fit and finish is clearly on par with the GS.

Also the new GS wasn't even out when the 10 best car list came out, thus it would be perfectly fine for the GS to picked over the RL in this sense.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

wow congrats to the m, that's very nice

and i also agree about the japanese vs german thing, it's time for japanese cars to take over

LexFather

I never said the RL fit and finish was bad. It is quite good. Just my opinion (much like the C&D review) that there were so many lines here and there and the whole dash just looks awkward, to me. Some think its grand and futuristic.

I predicted before, the M45 will win most all mag reviews for it being the sportiest sedan on par with the BMW. Unless the mags say they are looking for something else, they will always pick the sportiest car. So IMO, the M45 is well deserving. But to pick the RL 2nd, for anyone that had driven the 2 or ANY V-6 vs V-8 car, the main reason to pick the RL is cheaper price, which it did have and won that category.
Legendary Acura quality and re-sale(their words)? THey have posted letters from people complaining about the tranny problems in the TL/CL. The previous RL has dismal resale.

I am reading this review again, they had nothing bad to say about the GS. They also explained almost nothing, compared to most other reviews we have seen.

flipside909

Yeah no doubt...BMW CEO Krause...where are you at now?

http://www.automotivearticles.com/Th...at_Lexus.shtml

Gojirra99

Have you driven the new M45 yet ? I have & is only the non-sport version & it already handles very well & is blazingly quick I like the interior of the GS430 better & it's more comfortable for me, but the M45 is a fun sedan to drive

rominl

iTrader: (4)

nop i haven't, but my good friend drove both that and the gs already, and he told me the same. i am not surprised that the m45 is a complete drivers car, which is a good idea and something a lot of us look for. but i have seen the m45 interior, just a bit off from my taste, and i would prefer the gs430 over

rominl

iTrader: (4)

well, we gotta leave those people in their own world right?

IsraelRX

The Lexus did very well:

9 in handling like the less nose heavy 530i
5.7 sec 0-60 second best (Faster than the A8 and STS) to anyone who ever claimed Toyota's horses are not the same

spwolf

Sportiness dictated the order by far - differences in fit, ride quality, refinement were all extremly minor according to grading, even if GS for example produced an 12db less noise than M45 Sport, at idle... and got only 1 extra point for that ;-).

For example, RL's V6 engine, which was pretty weak compared to others - engine flexibility was judged at 3, while GS's V8 got 4.. Thats interesting because in every performance engine figure, GS was more than a sec faster... 50-70 - GS does it in 3.9 sec, RL did it in 5.1 sec...

Compared to M45 Sport, GS430 actually did quite well in power department - all engine power speed tests are quite interesting and GS trails M45 only by 0.2 secs in 30-50mph, 50-70mph tests.