Eaton Blower on SC pic
11-10-02, 08:15 PM
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Eaton Blower on SC pic
Last weekend I popped over to Melbourne to have a look at Andy's Blower on a V8 Soarer. I was so happy I just had to give him a great big hug! 
I also won the dyno day - my V8 even beat a twin turbo! (only just though!) Terry's headers have brought my car alive - the custom exhaust cams are finally working now.
More info on the supercharger next week. Andy's thinking of geting the bits needed professionally cast to make a bit of a kit - but it costs money to set up. His car is a prototype with the aluminium bits welded and machined - fits under the bonnet.
I also won the dyno day - my V8 even beat a twin turbo! (only just though!) Terry's headers have brought my car alive - the custom exhaust cams are finally working now.
More info on the supercharger next week. Andy's thinking of geting the bits needed professionally cast to make a bit of a kit - but it costs money to set up. His car is a prototype with the aluminium bits welded and machined - fits under the bonnet.
11-10-02, 11:07 PM
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Re: Eaton Blower on SC pic
Is this the new James Bond car? is that big shiny piece sticking up in the middle the machine gun? 
Automatic hood(bonnet) pop to automatic machine gun
Automatic hood(bonnet) pop to automatic machine gun
11-11-02, 01:41 PM
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rehashed picture
The picture of that NEW engine bay supercharger install was posted 6 months ago as a NEW supercharger install out of Australia.
And that SAME picture was actually introduced 3 years ago on this forum.
So it's history repeating itself. 6 months ago..I predicted someone would get pictures of this same car from Australia and go "NEW eaton supercharger" etc.
Watch..sometime this summer...we'll see this picture again as NEW.
And that SAME picture was actually introduced 3 years ago on this forum.
So it's history repeating itself. 6 months ago..I predicted someone would get pictures of this same car from Australia and go "NEW eaton supercharger" etc.
Watch..sometime this summer...we'll see this picture again as NEW.
11-11-02, 02:49 PM
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Anthracite are we reading the same thread?
Apart from your post, nobody refers to the Eaton install as NEW!!
Anyway it isnt the same 'supercharger' install as the Powerhouse install from 3 years ago, nor is it the same picture!
Go to the ALSC site:
http://www.lexus.australia.as/entry.htm
Select the Technical Info section, scroll to the bottom and take a look at 'Supercharging Your V8 Soarer'.
You may well see similar pics again in 6 months, if Andy is successful in putting a kit together, as I guess a few new owners will want to share their joy! If not his kit then someone elses!!!!
Apart from your post, nobody refers to the Eaton install as NEW!!
Anyway it isnt the same 'supercharger' install as the Powerhouse install from 3 years ago, nor is it the same picture!
Go to the ALSC site:
http://www.lexus.australia.as/entry.htm
Select the Technical Info section, scroll to the bottom and take a look at 'Supercharging Your V8 Soarer'.
You may well see similar pics again in 6 months, if Andy is successful in putting a kit together, as I guess a few new owners will want to share their joy! If not his kit then someone elses!!!!
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11-12-02, 02:25 AM
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5 psi with 45% more power right across the range is expected. Lots of low down torque. I don't have any figures yet - perhaps next week.
The thing that annoys me most with my car is the off-the line performance - the little V8 struggles with the heavy car. Here is another pic taken last Saturday 9th Nov 2002. Andy had been up real late trying to get it ready but there wasn't enough time. Errol and Andy also had a big Ford Lightning? type truck there with a Vortech install.
It was great to talk to them about all aspects of supercharging - they have a bunch of experience.
We talked about the problems of getting a kit together, low volume casting - the investment, would anyone buy it etc, water injection, rising rate fuel pressure regulators, the different supercharger applications, boost characteristics, matching superchargers to engines etc.
The belt was easy - just a standard part.
Driving the supercharger was straight forward.
Intake manifold tricky because of starter motor in middle of valley.
Water pipe under there had to be changed.
The thing that annoys me most with my car is the off-the line performance - the little V8 struggles with the heavy car. Here is another pic taken last Saturday 9th Nov 2002. Andy had been up real late trying to get it ready but there wasn't enough time. Errol and Andy also had a big Ford Lightning? type truck there with a Vortech install.
It was great to talk to them about all aspects of supercharging - they have a bunch of experience.
We talked about the problems of getting a kit together, low volume casting - the investment, would anyone buy it etc, water injection, rising rate fuel pressure regulators, the different supercharger applications, boost characteristics, matching superchargers to engines etc.
The belt was easy - just a standard part.
Driving the supercharger was straight forward.
Intake manifold tricky because of starter motor in middle of valley.
Water pipe under there had to be changed.
11-13-02, 07:00 AM
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Peter (UZZ32);
That is a fantastic job Andy has done on the blown 32, I know the "one off" development will have been time consuming/costly but do you have an indication of a realistic retail price?
It may seem like a lot effort to acheive 205rwKw or 274rwbhp (the 1JZ TT can do 191rwKw with an exhaust and 15psi boost) but I see from your recent Kilowatt King figures (congratulations by the way) a modded V8 (cams,headers,exhaust) can output 145rwKw so a very healthy 60rwKw could be had at 5psi boost.
When speaking to the UK blower people they all thought the V8 would benefit from de-compression allowing for higher boost, has this been done or considered on Andy's blower set-up?
That is a fantastic job Andy has done on the blown 32, I know the "one off" development will have been time consuming/costly but do you have an indication of a realistic retail price?
It may seem like a lot effort to acheive 205rwKw or 274rwbhp (the 1JZ TT can do 191rwKw with an exhaust and 15psi boost) but I see from your recent Kilowatt King figures (congratulations by the way) a modded V8 (cams,headers,exhaust) can output 145rwKw so a very healthy 60rwKw could be had at 5psi boost.
When speaking to the UK blower people they all thought the V8 would benefit from de-compression allowing for higher boost, has this been done or considered on Andy's blower set-up?
11-13-02, 07:02 PM
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Andy and Errol talked about this sort of stuff at length to me on the day. From their experience the 1UZ-FE V8 is transformed by 5psi in stock form.
Water injection does wonders as well - cleans combustion chambers which also helps with detonation, cools the charge, seals the blower making more efficient - and pretty cheap.
Once you start going over 5si you need more and more money. Fuel system upgrades - not just a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
Decompression - Errol and Andy never bother with thicker head gaskets - makes the combustion process (flame front propagation) inefficient if the piston isn't coming up level with the deck. They always opt for custom made dished pistons - still get the lower compression ratio but the engine is efficient and still makes power off-boost - not a big deal for this blower but crucial for turbo or Vortech typ applications. A set of custom piston is about $2000 Aud to buy. So if going for a serious high power upgrade this is where you start.
Once you get high boost you also need ECU fancy stuff - still hard work to do properly with an auto.
But 5 psi you may get away with stock fuel, stock internals and maybe just an interceptor and water injection. I rode in a VVti single turbo 6 Soarer with 160 rwkW 5 speed manual and it was outstanding - the torque down low was the best bit - so strong. If Andy can get 200 rwkW and heaps of torque down low it is going to be an absolute pleasure.
The complete kit will probably be around $6 000 Aud, $3 300 US or 2100 pounds. You guys will have to freight it - I can just drive over, bolt it on and WooooHoooo!
Andy said there will be the option of an Autorotor Opcon Twin screw supercharger as well - same sort of price. This will be my preferred option.
It's harder to get a supercharger to fit on a UZZ32 - because it has two belts - the snout has to be longer to line up. On every other Soarer including the SC400 there is more clearance.
The Opcon, Sprintex and Whipple are all twin screw type units.
Here is a quote from the Whipple website and a pic:
"OEM manufactures utilize positive displacement superchargers due to their incredible throttle response and drive-ability of a big cubic inch motor. When building a system for the consumers, you must provide a very broad power ban with a high peak horsepower level, only the screw compressor can give you this. This is due to the high adiabatic (up to 80%) and volumetric efficiency levels (up to 98%). The Eaton/Lysholm screw compressors are the most reliable, dependable, performance-enhancing item ever designed for either low boost or high boost levels.
The screw compressor is by far the best supercharger available today; it’s the only supercharger to provide a positive displacement design for maximum low-end torque as well as high efficiency for maximum top-end horsepower. No other supercharger in the world can offer the same unique benefits. Centrifugals and turbos have tremendous lag time during shift points, on-off throttle and off the line boost. Roots-type superchargers have been proven to not be very efficient, especially at higher boost levels. Whipple Superchargers has a variety of screw compressors for all types of applications, anywhere from a 1.2 Liter compressor to the 3.3 Liter compressor. Whipple also has a wide assortment of drive lengths, pulley combinations and bypass valves for all types of applications. "
Water injection does wonders as well - cleans combustion chambers which also helps with detonation, cools the charge, seals the blower making more efficient - and pretty cheap.
Once you start going over 5si you need more and more money. Fuel system upgrades - not just a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
Decompression - Errol and Andy never bother with thicker head gaskets - makes the combustion process (flame front propagation) inefficient if the piston isn't coming up level with the deck. They always opt for custom made dished pistons - still get the lower compression ratio but the engine is efficient and still makes power off-boost - not a big deal for this blower but crucial for turbo or Vortech typ applications. A set of custom piston is about $2000 Aud to buy. So if going for a serious high power upgrade this is where you start.
Once you get high boost you also need ECU fancy stuff - still hard work to do properly with an auto.
But 5 psi you may get away with stock fuel, stock internals and maybe just an interceptor and water injection. I rode in a VVti single turbo 6 Soarer with 160 rwkW 5 speed manual and it was outstanding - the torque down low was the best bit - so strong. If Andy can get 200 rwkW and heaps of torque down low it is going to be an absolute pleasure.
The complete kit will probably be around $6 000 Aud, $3 300 US or 2100 pounds. You guys will have to freight it - I can just drive over, bolt it on and WooooHoooo!
Andy said there will be the option of an Autorotor Opcon Twin screw supercharger as well - same sort of price. This will be my preferred option.
It's harder to get a supercharger to fit on a UZZ32 - because it has two belts - the snout has to be longer to line up. On every other Soarer including the SC400 there is more clearance.
The Opcon, Sprintex and Whipple are all twin screw type units.
Here is a quote from the Whipple website and a pic:
"OEM manufactures utilize positive displacement superchargers due to their incredible throttle response and drive-ability of a big cubic inch motor. When building a system for the consumers, you must provide a very broad power ban with a high peak horsepower level, only the screw compressor can give you this. This is due to the high adiabatic (up to 80%) and volumetric efficiency levels (up to 98%). The Eaton/Lysholm screw compressors are the most reliable, dependable, performance-enhancing item ever designed for either low boost or high boost levels.
The screw compressor is by far the best supercharger available today; it’s the only supercharger to provide a positive displacement design for maximum low-end torque as well as high efficiency for maximum top-end horsepower. No other supercharger in the world can offer the same unique benefits. Centrifugals and turbos have tremendous lag time during shift points, on-off throttle and off the line boost. Roots-type superchargers have been proven to not be very efficient, especially at higher boost levels. Whipple Superchargers has a variety of screw compressors for all types of applications, anywhere from a 1.2 Liter compressor to the 3.3 Liter compressor. Whipple also has a wide assortment of drive lengths, pulley combinations and bypass valves for all types of applications. "
11-14-02, 03:31 PM
#14
Lexus Champion
Peter, Good information but isn't the blower on Andy's car an Eaton S90 roots-type twisted lobe unit? Just want to confirm.
As Whipple points out the lysolm type screw compressors "look" much like a blower but are in fact true compressors with very good adiabatic efficiencies. Typically the screw compressors are larger in external dimensions than a like displacement roots blower. In 1990 I worked with the PSI (of Arizona) screw compressor. It had a very large external size but internally displaced apx the same as a GMC 6-71. We replaced the GMC 10-71 on a marine 572cid BB Chevy making 1100hp with the PSI unit and had to drive it to a higher speed to generate the same boost as the 10-71. Surprisingly, it did NOT make more power on the dyno? I was VERY surprised as I expected the efficiency to make more power. The problem was there was more parasitic loss due to the heavier components being turned at a higher RPM.
Lessons learned: Efficiency is important but must be considered as part of the entire system.
Efficiency is a ratio, when the boost is low (say 5psi) the outlet temp rise is not dramatic and the a 20% difference in efficiency is actually a relatively small number.
As Whipple points out the lysolm type screw compressors "look" much like a blower but are in fact true compressors with very good adiabatic efficiencies. Typically the screw compressors are larger in external dimensions than a like displacement roots blower. In 1990 I worked with the PSI (of Arizona) screw compressor. It had a very large external size but internally displaced apx the same as a GMC 6-71. We replaced the GMC 10-71 on a marine 572cid BB Chevy making 1100hp with the PSI unit and had to drive it to a higher speed to generate the same boost as the 10-71. Surprisingly, it did NOT make more power on the dyno? I was VERY surprised as I expected the efficiency to make more power. The problem was there was more parasitic loss due to the heavier components being turned at a higher RPM.
Lessons learned: Efficiency is important but must be considered as part of the entire system.
Efficiency is a ratio, when the boost is low (say 5psi) the outlet temp rise is not dramatic and the a 20% difference in efficiency is actually a relatively small number.
11-14-02, 06:53 PM
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Yes, Andy used a TerraCharger - a M90 Eaton made under licence - easier to mount because the bolt holes go through to the top. He also uses a bypass valve.
http://www.yellaterra.com.au/charger.html
For the same sort of money he can put together an Autorotor Opcon Twin Screw kit like the Bullet 1UZ-FE supercharged Miata.
http://www.fastlane.com.au/Custom_Shed/AEC_Bullet.htm
Click on the small engine pic to see a close up of the Twin Screw blower.
Someone once said that the blower in the picture is an Opcon with a Sprintex badge. The latest generation twin screws are smaller and lighter than the same size Eatons.
I talked to Errol about the disadvantages and advantages of having a larger blower like an Eaton MP112 - pumps 112 cubic inches instead of 90 cubic inches like the M90 (same as the 1.5 litre Opcon range).
By the time he had explained the whole boost curve and efficiency and matching to the engine thing I didn't want an Mp112 anymore. Just like sizing the correct turbo I suppose.
Here is a pic of the twin screw blower on the Bullet V8 1UZ-FE - we've seen it before - quite small looking.
The biggest thing for me is the near instant boost available to get my heavy car going - I don't want to wait for power to build - I want lots of torque down low.
Check out the boost curve for a positive displacement blower versus a centrifugal blower (Vortech for example) on this site. Sure the the curve is from Whipple so they may be a bit biased!
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/concept_twin.html
Another option to reduce the compression would be to change the cam timing - use a Miller Cycle like Mazda does in it's twin screw blower application:
http://www.mazda.co.nz/technology/1022.html
But when ever I raise this people just shrug their shoulders and don't know. Perhaps if we got serious we could get the intake cams reground to the the specs Mazda use while changing the cam belt. I would give this a go before going the dished piston route - it would be cheaper too. A Miller cycle twin screw supercharged V8 would be interesting. Would really want to consider water/air intercooling like the Jag XKR.
But one step at a time...
http://www.yellaterra.com.au/charger.html
For the same sort of money he can put together an Autorotor Opcon Twin Screw kit like the Bullet 1UZ-FE supercharged Miata.
http://www.fastlane.com.au/Custom_Shed/AEC_Bullet.htm
Click on the small engine pic to see a close up of the Twin Screw blower.
Someone once said that the blower in the picture is an Opcon with a Sprintex badge. The latest generation twin screws are smaller and lighter than the same size Eatons.
I talked to Errol about the disadvantages and advantages of having a larger blower like an Eaton MP112 - pumps 112 cubic inches instead of 90 cubic inches like the M90 (same as the 1.5 litre Opcon range).
By the time he had explained the whole boost curve and efficiency and matching to the engine thing I didn't want an Mp112 anymore. Just like sizing the correct turbo I suppose.
Here is a pic of the twin screw blower on the Bullet V8 1UZ-FE - we've seen it before - quite small looking.
The biggest thing for me is the near instant boost available to get my heavy car going - I don't want to wait for power to build - I want lots of torque down low.
Check out the boost curve for a positive displacement blower versus a centrifugal blower (Vortech for example) on this site. Sure the the curve is from Whipple so they may be a bit biased!
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/concept_twin.html
Another option to reduce the compression would be to change the cam timing - use a Miller Cycle like Mazda does in it's twin screw blower application:
http://www.mazda.co.nz/technology/1022.html
But when ever I raise this people just shrug their shoulders and don't know. Perhaps if we got serious we could get the intake cams reground to the the specs Mazda use while changing the cam belt. I would give this a go before going the dished piston route - it would be cheaper too. A Miller cycle twin screw supercharged V8 would be interesting. Would really want to consider water/air intercooling like the Jag XKR.
But one step at a time...