Out-of-control ES 350 crash claims 4 lives, causes brush fire
08-31-09, 01:23 AM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Out-of-control ES 350 crash claims 4 lives, causes brush fire
Very sad news...and safety questions, possible lessons...
http://www.examiner.com/x-833-San-Di...n-Santee-crash
There are 2 video news reports here, first a description of the accident from a reporter on scene, the second two days later from a news conference the California Highway Patrol (CHP) gave regarding the accident.
http://www.kusi.com/home/56035977.html
http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=11013075
There was a recall for 2007 ES 350s regarding the all-weather floor mats, which caused the accelerator to get stuck and led to several injury accidents, but no known fatalities. The recall was because owners improperly installed their floor mats over the cloth ones, and the mats then moved up and got stuck to the accelerator. The NHTSA investigated some 40 incidents regarding unintended acceleration and found that in most cases, the vehicles had these all-weather floor mats. However, initially when these reports came in, and for some parties afterward, they felt that it was possibly some other issue. Lexus models come with vehicle data recorders, which may be of some help in this latest crash.
The reports said this was a 'loaned' or 'loaner' car, which if it was from a dealership likely would not have these mats installed incorrectly? The reports state that the driver attempted to brake, to no avail (however some of the floor mat incidents may have suggested that the brake pedal may have been jammed as well). How about shifting to neutral? Also some comments on the news articles stated that shutting off the ignition would disable brake power...? What about the parking brake? The scenario could be terrifying and puzzling.
With these new push-button ignitions, I wonder how many owners know that they can hold down the START/STOP button for 3 seconds to turn off the engine while still in motion, as a last resort. That is also a critical piece of information.
May the victims of this incident rest in peace, and may some answers be found for this tragic incident.
http://www.examiner.com/x-833-San-Di...n-Santee-crash
CHP: Veteran officer, family members killed in Santee crash
CHP officials came out today and said that off-duty officer Mark Saylor, 45, was the likely driver of a loaned Lexus that hit a Ford Explorer around 6:35 p.m. at state Route 125 and Mission Gorge Road.
After colliding with the Explorer, the Lexus went on through the intersection, striking a concrete curb and running through a picket fence. The car then struck a dirt embankment which sent it airborne. The vehicle rolled several times before resting in a dry patch of the San Diego River basin where it burst into flames.
Authorities said the other victims in the car with Saylor were his wife, Cleofe, 45; daughter, Mahala, 13; and brother-in-law, Chris Lastrella, 38.
Since the victims were burned beyond recognition, final testing is still being done to reach a positive identity officially. The Medical Examiner's Office will reportedly not positively identify the bodies for several days, following an analysis of DNA and dental records.
According to investigators, the crash was reported approximately two minutes after a CHP dispatcher received a 911 call from one of the Lexus' passengers – likely Saylor's wife – to report that the car's accelerator was stuck and they could not bring the car, which may have been traveling around 100 miles per hour, to a stop.
CHP officials came out today and said that off-duty officer Mark Saylor, 45, was the likely driver of a loaned Lexus that hit a Ford Explorer around 6:35 p.m. at state Route 125 and Mission Gorge Road.
After colliding with the Explorer, the Lexus went on through the intersection, striking a concrete curb and running through a picket fence. The car then struck a dirt embankment which sent it airborne. The vehicle rolled several times before resting in a dry patch of the San Diego River basin where it burst into flames.
Authorities said the other victims in the car with Saylor were his wife, Cleofe, 45; daughter, Mahala, 13; and brother-in-law, Chris Lastrella, 38.
Since the victims were burned beyond recognition, final testing is still being done to reach a positive identity officially. The Medical Examiner's Office will reportedly not positively identify the bodies for several days, following an analysis of DNA and dental records.
According to investigators, the crash was reported approximately two minutes after a CHP dispatcher received a 911 call from one of the Lexus' passengers – likely Saylor's wife – to report that the car's accelerator was stuck and they could not bring the car, which may have been traveling around 100 miles per hour, to a stop.
http://www.kusi.com/home/56035977.html
http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=11013075
There was a recall for 2007 ES 350s regarding the all-weather floor mats, which caused the accelerator to get stuck and led to several injury accidents, but no known fatalities. The recall was because owners improperly installed their floor mats over the cloth ones, and the mats then moved up and got stuck to the accelerator. The NHTSA investigated some 40 incidents regarding unintended acceleration and found that in most cases, the vehicles had these all-weather floor mats. However, initially when these reports came in, and for some parties afterward, they felt that it was possibly some other issue. Lexus models come with vehicle data recorders, which may be of some help in this latest crash.
The reports said this was a 'loaned' or 'loaner' car, which if it was from a dealership likely would not have these mats installed incorrectly? The reports state that the driver attempted to brake, to no avail (however some of the floor mat incidents may have suggested that the brake pedal may have been jammed as well). How about shifting to neutral? Also some comments on the news articles stated that shutting off the ignition would disable brake power...? What about the parking brake? The scenario could be terrifying and puzzling.
With these new push-button ignitions, I wonder how many owners know that they can hold down the START/STOP button for 3 seconds to turn off the engine while still in motion, as a last resort. That is also a critical piece of information.
May the victims of this incident rest in peace, and may some answers be found for this tragic incident.
Last edited by encore888; 09-01-09 at 11:25 PM. Reason: bold
08-31-09, 05:05 AM
#2
Lexus Champion
Very sad news...and safety questions, possible lessons...
There was a recall for 2007 ES 350s regarding the all-weather floor mats, which caused the accelerator to get stuck and led to several injury accidents, but no known fatalities. The recall was because owners improperly installed their floor mats over the cloth ones, and the mats then moved up and got stuck to the accelerator. The NHTSA investigated some 40 incidents regarding unintended acceleration and found that in most cases, the vehicles had these all-weather floor mats. However, initially when these reports came in, and for some parties afterward, they felt that it was possibly some other issue. Lexus models come with vehicle data recorders, which may be of some help in this latest crash.
The reports said this was a 'loaned' or 'loaner' car, which if it was from a dealership likely would not have these mats installed incorrectly? The reports state that the driver attempted to brake, to no avail (however some of the floor mat incidents may have suggested that the brake pedal may have been jammed as well). How about shifting to neutral? Also some comments on the news articles stated that shutting off the ignition would disable brake power...? What about the parking brake? The scenario could be terrifying and puzzling.
May the victims of this incident rest in peace, and may some answers be found for this tragic incident.
There was a recall for 2007 ES 350s regarding the all-weather floor mats, which caused the accelerator to get stuck and led to several injury accidents, but no known fatalities. The recall was because owners improperly installed their floor mats over the cloth ones, and the mats then moved up and got stuck to the accelerator. The NHTSA investigated some 40 incidents regarding unintended acceleration and found that in most cases, the vehicles had these all-weather floor mats. However, initially when these reports came in, and for some parties afterward, they felt that it was possibly some other issue. Lexus models come with vehicle data recorders, which may be of some help in this latest crash.
The reports said this was a 'loaned' or 'loaner' car, which if it was from a dealership likely would not have these mats installed incorrectly? The reports state that the driver attempted to brake, to no avail (however some of the floor mat incidents may have suggested that the brake pedal may have been jammed as well). How about shifting to neutral? Also some comments on the news articles stated that shutting off the ignition would disable brake power...? What about the parking brake? The scenario could be terrifying and puzzling.
May the victims of this incident rest in peace, and may some answers be found for this tragic incident.
08-31-09, 08:13 AM
#5
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very sad. a whole family... 
08-31-09, 08:27 AM
#6
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How about shifting to neutral? Also some comments on the news articles stated that shutting off the ignition would disable brake power...? What about the parking brake? The scenario could be terrifying and puzzling.
With these new push-button ignitions, I wonder how many owners know that they can hold down the button for 3 seconds to turn off the engine while still in motion, as a last resort. That is also a critical piece of information.
With these new push-button ignitions, I wonder how many owners know that they can hold down the button for 3 seconds to turn off the engine while still in motion, as a last resort. That is also a critical piece of information.
Very sad, hope they atleast find out what the cause was. The floor mats have been an issue for a while. Which is why manufacturers have made the addition of the hook that holds the driver floor mat.
Honda had a recall when I was working at the dealer in 99' where we had to punch new holes in the driver floor mat and add a hook.
Very sad...
08-31-09, 08:32 AM
#7
This is very very sad.
Back in 98-99 I was in a similar situation. My back then girlfriend was driving this Nissan that her father just bought her a day before. Her father also happened to own a repair shop, and he had one of his mechanics inspect the car and repair whatever needed to be repaired. In any case we were driving up to a red light and all of a sudden she starts screaming "OMG it wont slow down" or something to that effect. Her reaction was to cover her eyes and scream.... I reacted by throwing the car into neutral and pulling the handbrake so hard that I was barely able to release it after. I also started blowing the horn as we were sliding through the intersection. Luckily we were able to avoid an accident. We called her father, and he came by along with the mechanic that was doing the work, they opened the hood and discovered a tool that was left over by the mechanic in the engine bay and jammed the throttle cable. I remember her father looked at his mechanic and said to him "you almost killed my daughter".
In any case, with new cars that do not have a proper throttle cable, ignition key, or gear shifter, and instead rely on electronics, if these electotronics go wrong, you cant even control anything if electronics decide to go nuts.
Back in 98-99 I was in a similar situation. My back then girlfriend was driving this Nissan that her father just bought her a day before. Her father also happened to own a repair shop, and he had one of his mechanics inspect the car and repair whatever needed to be repaired. In any case we were driving up to a red light and all of a sudden she starts screaming "OMG it wont slow down" or something to that effect. Her reaction was to cover her eyes and scream.... I reacted by throwing the car into neutral and pulling the handbrake so hard that I was barely able to release it after. I also started blowing the horn as we were sliding through the intersection. Luckily we were able to avoid an accident. We called her father, and he came by along with the mechanic that was doing the work, they opened the hood and discovered a tool that was left over by the mechanic in the engine bay and jammed the throttle cable. I remember her father looked at his mechanic and said to him "you almost killed my daughter".
In any case, with new cars that do not have a proper throttle cable, ignition key, or gear shifter, and instead rely on electronics, if these electotronics go wrong, you cant even control anything if electronics decide to go nuts.
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08-31-09, 08:35 AM
#8
unfortunately he probably panic and thought he could get it under control..and I don't think too many people know about holding the button for 3 seconds (I didn't).
Very sad, hope they atleast find out what the cause was. The floor mats have been an issue for a while. Which is why manufacturers have made the addition of the hook that holds the driver floor mat.
Honda had a recall when I was working at the dealer in 99' where we had to punch new holes in the driver floor mat and add a hook.
Very sad...
Very sad, hope they atleast find out what the cause was. The floor mats have been an issue for a while. Which is why manufacturers have made the addition of the hook that holds the driver floor mat.
Honda had a recall when I was working at the dealer in 99' where we had to punch new holes in the driver floor mat and add a hook.
Very sad...
Now, I dont know about the ES, but most other lexus throttle pedals are actually almost impossible to jam with a floor mat. I'm not sure how to explain it, but the bottom portion of throttle pedal is right on the floor, and its the upper portion that is operable, so theres no space between the pedal and the floor and you cant really jam anythign in there.
08-31-09, 08:57 AM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
This is very very sad.
Back in 98-99 I was in a similar situation. My back then girlfriend was driving this Nissan that her father just bought her a day before. Her father also happened to own a repair shop, and he had one of his mechanics inspect the car and repair whatever needed to be repaired. In any case we were driving up to a red light and all of a sudden she starts screaming "OMG it wont slow down" or something to that effect. Her reaction was to cover her eyes and scream.... I reacted by throwing the car into neutral and pulling the handbrake so hard that I was barely able to release it after. I also started blowing the horn as we were sliding through the intersection. Luckily we were able to avoid an accident. We called her father, and he came by along with the mechanic that was doing the work, they opened the hood and discovered a tool that was left over by the mechanic in the engine bay and jammed the throttle cable. I remember her father looked at his mechanic and said to him "you almost killed my daughter".
Back in 98-99 I was in a similar situation. My back then girlfriend was driving this Nissan that her father just bought her a day before. Her father also happened to own a repair shop, and he had one of his mechanics inspect the car and repair whatever needed to be repaired. In any case we were driving up to a red light and all of a sudden she starts screaming "OMG it wont slow down" or something to that effect. Her reaction was to cover her eyes and scream.... I reacted by throwing the car into neutral and pulling the handbrake so hard that I was barely able to release it after. I also started blowing the horn as we were sliding through the intersection. Luckily we were able to avoid an accident. We called her father, and he came by along with the mechanic that was doing the work, they opened the hood and discovered a tool that was left over by the mechanic in the engine bay and jammed the throttle cable. I remember her father looked at his mechanic and said to him "you almost killed my daughter".
In any case, with new cars that do not have a proper throttle cable, ignition key, or gear shifter, and instead rely on electronics, if these electotronics go wrong, you cant even control anything if electronics decide to go nuts.
08-31-09, 09:45 AM
#12
Now, I dont know about the ES, but most other lexus throttle pedals are actually almost impossible to jam with a floor mat
I'm not sure how to explain it, but the bottom portion of throttle pedal is right on the floor, and its the upper portion that is operable, so theres no space between the pedal and the floor and you cant really jam anythign in there.
Unfortunate accident here.. The victims family may feel otherwise.
08-31-09, 10:23 AM
#13
Lexus Champion
08-31-09, 12:17 PM
#14
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The car was a loaner vehicle used in service:
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...p-lexus-crash/
It was a 2009 ES 350.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...p-lexus-crash/
It was a 2009 ES 350.
In 2007, Toyota Motor Corp. recalled more than 30,000 “all weather” floor mats used in the 2008 Lexus ES 350 and some 24,000 Camry vehicles due to complaints that the mats would slip forward and jam the accelerator.
Investigators with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration determined that the problem occurred when the mats were placed on top of standard mats, which prevented the top mat from being fastened securely and allowed it to slip forward and cause unintended accelerations.
The agency said there were seven crashes, 12 injuries and 40 complaints about the problem. In some cases the vehicles reached speeds of more than 90 mph before the cars were stopped, safety officials found.
The report also stated that when the throttle pedal is unintentionally fully open some drivers reacted by hitting the brakes multiple times which depleted the vehicle's vacuum based power assist. Without that assistance the brakes must be applied with much more force, the report said. Additionally, continued driving in that manner can result in overheating the brakes, further diminishing their effectiveness.
The report also found that some drivers tried to turn the car off with the engine control button but were unaware that the button must be held for three seconds to stop the engine while it is in motion. The agency said this was not explained adequately in the owner's manual.
The NHTSA warned drivers of vehicles made by Toyota to check the accessory mats to make sure they were properly installed. The company acknowledged the complaints and made label changes on the mats to highlight the instructions for proper installation.
There have been no recalls regarding the 2009 ES 350, according to the NHTSA.
Carter said he did not know what kind of floor mats the car involved in the accident had in it but doubts that it had “all weather” variety. Even if it had, he said, the mat would have been installed as to the manufacturer's instructions.
Sheriff's investigators as well as the CHP's Multidisciplinary Accident Investigation Team are investigating the crash.
CHP Officer Brian Pennings said that he knew Saylor and that he was an extremely competent and capable officer. “I have to believe that he did everything in his power to stop that car,” Pennings said.
Investigators with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration determined that the problem occurred when the mats were placed on top of standard mats, which prevented the top mat from being fastened securely and allowed it to slip forward and cause unintended accelerations.
The agency said there were seven crashes, 12 injuries and 40 complaints about the problem. In some cases the vehicles reached speeds of more than 90 mph before the cars were stopped, safety officials found.
The report also stated that when the throttle pedal is unintentionally fully open some drivers reacted by hitting the brakes multiple times which depleted the vehicle's vacuum based power assist. Without that assistance the brakes must be applied with much more force, the report said. Additionally, continued driving in that manner can result in overheating the brakes, further diminishing their effectiveness.
The report also found that some drivers tried to turn the car off with the engine control button but were unaware that the button must be held for three seconds to stop the engine while it is in motion. The agency said this was not explained adequately in the owner's manual.
The NHTSA warned drivers of vehicles made by Toyota to check the accessory mats to make sure they were properly installed. The company acknowledged the complaints and made label changes on the mats to highlight the instructions for proper installation.
There have been no recalls regarding the 2009 ES 350, according to the NHTSA.
Carter said he did not know what kind of floor mats the car involved in the accident had in it but doubts that it had “all weather” variety. Even if it had, he said, the mat would have been installed as to the manufacturer's instructions.
Sheriff's investigators as well as the CHP's Multidisciplinary Accident Investigation Team are investigating the crash.
CHP Officer Brian Pennings said that he knew Saylor and that he was an extremely competent and capable officer. “I have to believe that he did everything in his power to stop that car,” Pennings said.
Last edited by encore888; 08-31-09 at 03:21 PM. Reason: added quote
