gotta get rid of these swirls marks...
02-24-04 | 08:55 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Rhode Island
gotta get rid of these swirls marks...
hello fellow CL members.. its finally starting to get a little nice in the northeast.. my car is back on the road and i love it.. BUT what is really getting to me is that my car is black and on a nice sunny day all i see is swirl marks all over the car...what am i to do??
should i get the car repainted the same color??
should i get the car detailed and waxed and buffed all that good stuff?
I will definatly try to get pics of my car on the forum....soon
should i get the car repainted the same color??
should i get the car detailed and waxed and buffed all that good stuff?
I will definatly try to get pics of my car on the forum....soon
02-24-04 | 09:58 PM
#3
02-24-04 | 09:59 PM
#4
Lead Lap
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
From: California
Re: gotta get rid of these swirls marks...
Originally posted by lsportlex
hello fellow CL members.. its finally starting to get a little nice in the northeast.. my car is back on the road and i love it.. BUT what is really getting to me is that my car is black and on a nice sunny day all i see is swirl marks all over the car...what am i to do??
should i get the car repainted the same color??
should i get the car detailed and waxed and buffed all that good stuff?
I will definatly try to get pics of my car on the forum....soon
hello fellow CL members.. its finally starting to get a little nice in the northeast.. my car is back on the road and i love it.. BUT what is really getting to me is that my car is black and on a nice sunny day all i see is swirl marks all over the car...what am i to do??
should i get the car repainted the same color??
should i get the car detailed and waxed and buffed all that good stuff?
I will definatly try to get pics of my car on the forum....soon
02-24-04 | 10:13 PM
#5
I've also used the Scratch X with great success, good stuff. Last weekend we had a Zaino Clinic in Charlotte and I had some issues with a clay bar 
... I used the 3M Swirl Remover extensively and it worked like a champ.
Here's an after picture (ignore the lower back bumper where I hadn't removed product yet
)
... I used the 3M Swirl Remover extensively and it worked like a champ. Here's an after picture (ignore the lower back bumper where I hadn't removed product yet
)
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02-25-04 | 08:52 AM
#9
Originally posted by LEXISM
dave, is that after one application
dave, is that after one application
After the clinic, I'm a big fan of Zaino
My clean car doesn't seem to be collecting as much dust in the garage either.
02-25-04 | 09:02 AM
#10
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 3
From: Florida
Dave, glad that clinic helped you out. Claying sure can cause more problems than it solves if you forget a few things that factor in. i.e. washing prior, applying light pressure, kneading the clay often, keeeping ample lubricity with quick deatiler or soapy water etc. It's not as simple as some make it sound. Once you understand the drill though, it's very effective.
Swirls are microscopic marring (scratching) of the paint by dirt, grit or a cloth / towel that scratches in a minute way, thus they are called "micro mars" by people in the industry. It really doesn't matter what they're called though, they're a nuisance!
Once they're there, you have 2 choices in dealing with swirls;
Cover them up; Most glazes will do this with fillers that hide swirling, and a glaze leaves oils for shine too. Bad part; glazes can't be used under a polymer (i.e. Zaino) because the polymer won't stick / bond to the glaze because of the oils in the glaze. The other thing about glazes is they wash away with heavy rain or carwashing, so you have to reapply regularly. Glazes work best in conjunction with a carnauba wax. Glaze first, then wax over top.
Remove them Just like a scratch you can see or feel, micro swirls also can be leveled via abrasives. "Swirl removers" are fine grit abrasives that gently polish paint to remove enough of the bad paint where the marring exists. If you polish with fine enough abrasives, and use towels & materials that don't mar further, you reveal flat, clear paint under those swirls. The amount of paint you're actually removing is so minor it's not worth mentioning. This isn't compounding folks. Compounding will actually leave swirls if you don't finish up with a finer grit polish or swirl remover. The final polishing in any buffing work is crucial for swirl free paint.
One last thing; by hand, getting a perfect, swirl-free finish TAKES TIME and effort. Pros use a rotary for a reason, it heats up and softens the paint and breaks down the products via friction, making everything work optimally. By hand, this doesn't happen the same way, and you usually must work the product with even (not hard) pressure quite a few times on a given panel. This is the mistake many make because they get a towel, then their swirl remover, rub it on the paint, wipe it off, and get frustrated because their swirls are mostly still there. Can't change the laws of physics, those fine abrasives need to be worked 4 or 5x to get even near the same result a machine buffer gets in 1or 2 passes. Lastly, by hand it's best to rub in back & forth motions, not circles. This will allow the abrasives to have a perpindicular cross-threading effect of leveling them down, rather than following them with oval motions. You don't have the same advantages as a machine, you must take a different approach to optomize what the abrasives can do.
So, take your time, use microfiber or proven terry towels to wipe, and one other tip ; when you have worked the panel (never try and do the whole car at once BTW, just do 1 2ft x 1 ft or 2ft x 2 ft area at a time) , spritz some quick detailer over the area. This will lubricate the paint and prevent any of the dried polish residue from causing any marring upon removal with the towel (use a separate towel for this step-especially if you spritz before you wipe each time).
I have seen, and encountered swirls from dried residue during a final wipe off, after getting a panel perfect. Rubbing compounds are notorious for this, as they are grittier and you can really get some swirls just from wiping the dry powdery remains after buffing. Swirl removers and fine polishes aren't as prone, but it's never going to hurt to add lubricity during a final wipe -down.
When you do it again, and again, and again, you learn what works and what doesn't work, and all the liitle variables that can make or break it. Good luck, let me know if I missed anything,
Ok, I have to toot my own horn here once; My black 1989 Thunderbird Supercoupe just brought home a 1st place trophy for "Best in Class' at a big Orlando Florida All-Ford Show last Saturday, with many vintage T-Birds, other SC's, and brand new 2004 T-Birds present, and I think my paint had a lot to do with it. My wife said the trophy was small compared to the amount of time I've spent on my paint on that car, lol. Oh well, (some)women will never understand.
Now...ask me why my GS400 is white? If I had 2 black cars, she would need to put a bed out in the garage for me.
Let me know if you have further questions.
Swirls are microscopic marring (scratching) of the paint by dirt, grit or a cloth / towel that scratches in a minute way, thus they are called "micro mars" by people in the industry. It really doesn't matter what they're called though, they're a nuisance!
Once they're there, you have 2 choices in dealing with swirls;
Cover them up; Most glazes will do this with fillers that hide swirling, and a glaze leaves oils for shine too. Bad part; glazes can't be used under a polymer (i.e. Zaino) because the polymer won't stick / bond to the glaze because of the oils in the glaze. The other thing about glazes is they wash away with heavy rain or carwashing, so you have to reapply regularly. Glazes work best in conjunction with a carnauba wax. Glaze first, then wax over top.
Remove them Just like a scratch you can see or feel, micro swirls also can be leveled via abrasives. "Swirl removers" are fine grit abrasives that gently polish paint to remove enough of the bad paint where the marring exists. If you polish with fine enough abrasives, and use towels & materials that don't mar further, you reveal flat, clear paint under those swirls. The amount of paint you're actually removing is so minor it's not worth mentioning. This isn't compounding folks. Compounding will actually leave swirls if you don't finish up with a finer grit polish or swirl remover. The final polishing in any buffing work is crucial for swirl free paint.
One last thing; by hand, getting a perfect, swirl-free finish TAKES TIME and effort. Pros use a rotary for a reason, it heats up and softens the paint and breaks down the products via friction, making everything work optimally. By hand, this doesn't happen the same way, and you usually must work the product with even (not hard) pressure quite a few times on a given panel. This is the mistake many make because they get a towel, then their swirl remover, rub it on the paint, wipe it off, and get frustrated because their swirls are mostly still there. Can't change the laws of physics, those fine abrasives need to be worked 4 or 5x to get even near the same result a machine buffer gets in 1or 2 passes. Lastly, by hand it's best to rub in back & forth motions, not circles. This will allow the abrasives to have a perpindicular cross-threading effect of leveling them down, rather than following them with oval motions. You don't have the same advantages as a machine, you must take a different approach to optomize what the abrasives can do.
So, take your time, use microfiber or proven terry towels to wipe, and one other tip ; when you have worked the panel (never try and do the whole car at once BTW, just do 1 2ft x 1 ft or 2ft x 2 ft area at a time) , spritz some quick detailer over the area. This will lubricate the paint and prevent any of the dried polish residue from causing any marring upon removal with the towel (use a separate towel for this step-especially if you spritz before you wipe each time).
I have seen, and encountered swirls from dried residue during a final wipe off, after getting a panel perfect. Rubbing compounds are notorious for this, as they are grittier and you can really get some swirls just from wiping the dry powdery remains after buffing. Swirl removers and fine polishes aren't as prone, but it's never going to hurt to add lubricity during a final wipe -down.
When you do it again, and again, and again, you learn what works and what doesn't work, and all the liitle variables that can make or break it. Good luck, let me know if I missed anything,
Ok, I have to toot my own horn here once; My black 1989 Thunderbird Supercoupe just brought home a 1st place trophy for "Best in Class' at a big Orlando Florida All-Ford Show last Saturday, with many vintage T-Birds, other SC's, and brand new 2004 T-Birds present, and I think my paint had a lot to do with it. My wife said the trophy was small compared to the amount of time I've spent on my paint on that car, lol. Oh well, (some)women will never understand.
Now...ask me why my GS400 is white? If I had 2 black cars, she would need to put a bed out in the garage for me.
Let me know if you have further questions.
Last edited by Guitarman; 02-25-04 at 09:08 AM.
02-27-04 | 09:12 PM
#12
Scratch X
I tried Scratch X for the first time last week. The pictures aren't great since it was cloudy but you can see the difference it made. I'll be ordering a Porter Cable orbital and try to completely remove them.
02-28-04 | 07:16 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,379
Likes: 22
From: Florida
Re: Scratch X
Originally posted by DHRP
I tried Scratch X for the first time last week. The pictures aren't great since it was cloudy but you can see the difference it made. I'll be ordering a Porter Cable orbital and try to completely remove them.
I tried Scratch X for the first time last week. The pictures aren't great since it was cloudy but you can see the difference it made. I'll be ordering a Porter Cable orbital and try to completely remove them.
