Need help picking products to detail with.
04-29-04, 06:32 AM
#1
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Need help picking products to detail with.
Hey guys. I'm getting my body kit on in about a month, and I want to take out all the little surface scratches I have on my 98 GS. my paint is spectra blue.
I have around 5 or so surface scratches around two inches long that i think I can buff out, and around 2 or so paint chips on the hood that will need touch up paint and then need to be wet sanded.
Ive watched a couple tv shows bout detailing but I need to know what products to use.
I know I need a buffer/polisher, but what kind? What polishing compound should I use. What buffing compound solution should I use? What grit of sand paper do i use to wet sand? What kind of sand paper? Does Zaino offer a buffing/polishing compound? Should I use Zaino after I polish for the best shine? Is there a complete kit I can buy?
I know It's a bunch of questions, but thanks in advance for answering.
I have around 5 or so surface scratches around two inches long that i think I can buff out, and around 2 or so paint chips on the hood that will need touch up paint and then need to be wet sanded.
Ive watched a couple tv shows bout detailing but I need to know what products to use.
I know I need a buffer/polisher, but what kind? What polishing compound should I use. What buffing compound solution should I use? What grit of sand paper do i use to wet sand? What kind of sand paper? Does Zaino offer a buffing/polishing compound? Should I use Zaino after I polish for the best shine? Is there a complete kit I can buy?
I know It's a bunch of questions, but thanks in advance for answering.
04-29-04, 08:24 AM
#2
The fact that you're asking all these questions scares me a bit; I hope you understand it takes time to develop some skill with a machine such as a rotary buffer, and not do more damage than you start with. Your enthusiasm is wonderful, but you need to understand just what you're getting yourself into. You CAN do everything by hand, with wetsandpaper and the compounds listed below, and get superb results. It will involve a lot more muscle and time, but it CAN be done. I would recommend this to you unless you're determined to learn to use a rotary buffer.
If you're attempting to use a machine ( or wetsand for that matter) for the 1st time, you'll need to practice on something OTHER than your GS400. Mistakes usually happen from inexperience with almost anything, so why risk your baby right? People have had to have their cars repainted from misuse of a rotary buffer. It's a serious tool for serious problems, intended for experienced users.
That said, a rotary buffer IS the tool of choice to attempt hardcore scratch removal. An orbital will be safe, but serious scratches will just laugh at an orbital.
The second thing you need to ask is; How often will i use this tool? The pro grade rotaries such as DeWalt. Makita etc. cost ~$200. If you would prefer a tool that isn't as stout, but will work for occasional weekend detailing, check into WEN or Vector; http://www.discountpowertools.net/Item/B00009RB0K/
They are both around $60.
As for your other questions;
What polishing compound should I use? you will need a few liquid polishes for varying circumstances. I use 3M stuff myself. Buy Perfect-It 3 Rubbing Compound (part #05933) Perfect-It III Machine Glaze (part #05937) and a swirl remover polish such as 3M Swirl remover (they have one for light colored cars and one for dark colors ) or Meguiar's #9) What buffing compound solution should I use? Perfect-It II Rubbing compound #05933. What grit of sand paper do i use to wet sand? I would stick with 2000 grit. I use 1500 generally but I've been doing it for 20 years now, and 2000 cuts a bit slower, which is better for someone starting out. I also use 3M papers, but Meguiar's has a superior unigrit paper (hard to find near me-which I why i use the 3M) which you might want to look for. What kind of sand paper? See previous answer Does Zaino offer a buffing/polishing compound? No, they do not currently sell abrasives for compounding or polishing Should I use Zaino after I polish for the best shine? Is there a complete kit I can buy? You have to buy ala carte' i.e. single items per your needs. I would recommend Z1 and Z5 at minimum, and Z1, Z5 , Z6 and Z7 as a 2nd level package.
You will also need a sanding block to uise as a backing pad when wetsanding. use a 3M or DuPont foam block (fine grit is ok-you're not going to sand with the block itself, only use it as a backing pad for the sandpaper). Just practice a while on someone's junker if you buy the rotary, or when learning to wetsand. If you have more questions, simply ask away. Hope this helps.
If you're attempting to use a machine ( or wetsand for that matter) for the 1st time, you'll need to practice on something OTHER than your GS400. Mistakes usually happen from inexperience with almost anything, so why risk your baby right? People have had to have their cars repainted from misuse of a rotary buffer. It's a serious tool for serious problems, intended for experienced users.
That said, a rotary buffer IS the tool of choice to attempt hardcore scratch removal. An orbital will be safe, but serious scratches will just laugh at an orbital.
The second thing you need to ask is; How often will i use this tool? The pro grade rotaries such as DeWalt. Makita etc. cost ~$200. If you would prefer a tool that isn't as stout, but will work for occasional weekend detailing, check into WEN or Vector; http://www.discountpowertools.net/Item/B00009RB0K/
They are both around $60.
As for your other questions;
What polishing compound should I use? you will need a few liquid polishes for varying circumstances. I use 3M stuff myself. Buy Perfect-It 3 Rubbing Compound (part #05933) Perfect-It III Machine Glaze (part #05937) and a swirl remover polish such as 3M Swirl remover (they have one for light colored cars and one for dark colors ) or Meguiar's #9) What buffing compound solution should I use? Perfect-It II Rubbing compound #05933. What grit of sand paper do i use to wet sand? I would stick with 2000 grit. I use 1500 generally but I've been doing it for 20 years now, and 2000 cuts a bit slower, which is better for someone starting out. I also use 3M papers, but Meguiar's has a superior unigrit paper (hard to find near me-which I why i use the 3M) which you might want to look for. What kind of sand paper? See previous answer Does Zaino offer a buffing/polishing compound? No, they do not currently sell abrasives for compounding or polishing Should I use Zaino after I polish for the best shine? Is there a complete kit I can buy? You have to buy ala carte' i.e. single items per your needs. I would recommend Z1 and Z5 at minimum, and Z1, Z5 , Z6 and Z7 as a 2nd level package.
You will also need a sanding block to uise as a backing pad when wetsanding. use a 3M or DuPont foam block (fine grit is ok-you're not going to sand with the block itself, only use it as a backing pad for the sandpaper). Just practice a while on someone's junker if you buy the rotary, or when learning to wetsand. If you have more questions, simply ask away. Hope this helps.
Last edited by Guitarman; 04-29-04 at 08:25 AM.
04-29-04, 01:16 PM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
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Thanks a bunch for the information guitarman.
To start off with, I will be practicing my skills first off on my mom's suburban, which has sustained a lot of damage over the years. This way I don't screw up my paint job even worse as you said.
With a rotary buffer that you said, all I need is a decent one for weekend detailing. I saw on Truck's TV that he used one that wouldnt burn into the paint, it had a feature where if you pressed too hard, it would stop moving.....which would be good for me since I am not so experienced. Do you know if the Vector has that feature?
Also, in what order should i detail with?
Surface scratch:
Buff it out:
1. Use the rotary buffer with buffing compound to smooth down and level out the scratch- Do I use the the perfect it 2 rubbing compound?
2. Use the rotary buffer with polishing compound to shine it up - which product do i use for what circumstance?
3. Wax it good with zaino products.
Deep scratch:
1. apply touch up paint
2. wet sand
3. same steps as the surface scratch?
Thanks a whole lot for all the info you have already provided!
To start off with, I will be practicing my skills first off on my mom's suburban, which has sustained a lot of damage over the years. This way I don't screw up my paint job even worse as you said.
With a rotary buffer that you said, all I need is a decent one for weekend detailing. I saw on Truck's TV that he used one that wouldnt burn into the paint, it had a feature where if you pressed too hard, it would stop moving.....which would be good for me since I am not so experienced. Do you know if the Vector has that feature?
Also, in what order should i detail with?
Surface scratch:
Buff it out:
1. Use the rotary buffer with buffing compound to smooth down and level out the scratch- Do I use the the perfect it 2 rubbing compound?
2. Use the rotary buffer with polishing compound to shine it up - which product do i use for what circumstance?
3. Wax it good with zaino products.
Deep scratch:
1. apply touch up paint
2. wet sand
3. same steps as the surface scratch?
Thanks a whole lot for all the info you have already provided!
04-29-04, 02:48 PM
#4
I saw on Truck's TV that he used one that wouldnt burn into the paint, it had a feature where if you pressed too hard, it would stop moving.....which would be good for me since I am not so experienced. Do you know if the Vector has that feature?
The Vector doesn't do that though, nor the top line Makitas or DeWalts. Here is what you would do on a typical scratch, and buffing in general with a rotary;
if you can easily feel the scratch with your fingernail, you probably can't remove it without removing too much paint. You may be able to make it less noticeable though.
The topcoat (single stage OR base/clear are the same in thickness) on your paint is ~1.7 to 2.0 MILS. 2 MILS is equal to 50 microns. 50 microns is approximately the thickness of a fine (blond for instance)human hair. If you have someone in your family with blond hair, pull one out, and stare at it. The thickness of that strand of hair hat is how thick your paint is on top. Let that sink in a while first.
For most scratches that you can feel even slightly, as well as dull oxidized paint, you will uisually need a rubbing compound. They come in a few different grits. A HEAVY CUT compound will be very aggresive (especially via a rotary) and cut paint FAST. A pro can remove scratches fast with a heavy cut, but I advise you wait till you have some experience before you go there. Instead, use a simple rubbing compound like the Perfect-It 3 Rubbing Compound (part #05933) or even their fine cut rubbing compound. It will need to be worked a bit longer to see results, but that gives you more headroom and control over what you're doing. You would generally use a cutting pad on your buffer when tackling a major scratch. I recommend a foam cutting pad rather than wool. Foam runs hotter than wool, but leaves less micro marring and the heat actually helps soften the paint, allowing the compound to do it's job. Thje downside to the extra heat generated by a foam pad is that you'll need to keep the RPM's down to around 1200, and keep the tool moving a bit quicker.
You will need to keep a constant RPM for even results. If you trigger the tool up and down in RPM, you can get buffer marks, burning marks, and splotchy paint removal, as well as marring. Most (even the cheap ones) rotaries have a locking trigger. This is a MUST.
Lay a line of compound on the panel, about 1/4 inch thick and 12 inches long, and smear it around with the buffing pad with the machine OFF (or it will splatter everywhere) Start the buffer SLOWLY on the paint and move it around immediately, about 1 foot every second or 2. Dial up 1200 rpm and lock it there. You want to work the scratched area in general, not JUST on the scratch. Move the buffer mostly along the direction of the scratch, and a couple passes perpindicular to it too. You can work the compound till it STARTS to dry out. WORK AWAY FROM THE EDGES OF PANELS AND RIDGES. The paint is THIN there. You want to STOP buffing while the compound is still wet, just starting to dry out, rather than work it till dry. Stop, spray some distilled water and isopropyl alcohol (a quick detailer with NO WAX also works) over the area you just buffed, and cotton towel it clean. View your scratch, or whatever you're working on, and repeat that step if necessary. When the pad gets loaded up with compound, you will get residue caking onto the paint. This means you need to either SPUR the pad (go read the "Basic detailing definitions" at the top of this forum, and learn what a spur tool does) or change to a clean pad. This is why you'll need 2-3 pads for each process, i.e. 2 cutting pads, 2 polishing pads, 2 finishing pads. More is always good.
When you can see the scratch anymore, or you've made the determination it's too deep to remove (this I can't easily teach you via the web) you will need to change pads to a polishing foam pad, or a blended wool pad, and use the 3M Machine Glaze (or equivalent). You work that the same way, not exceeding 1750 RPM. Speed is NOT your friend when starting out. It can bite you in the butt fast . if you think more RPM = better, you will be reminded through a backing plate abrasion or paint edge burn through that you were wrong.
Finally, especially on black and dark colors, you may want to use a swirl remover polish with a finishing pad. Work it at 1200 to 1700 RPM and slow the buffer down as your polish starts thinning and drying out. Slow it to a crawl and rework it 1x more before you're done. Your final passes should be below 1000 RPM and very light pressure.
This is all in depth but basically pretty general. Sometimes using a cutting pad with a fine polish will yield different results for a certain problem, so you don't HAVE to use a certain pad with a certain polish etc. But in general terms, you should use ; cutting pad with rubbing compounds, polishing pads with medium grit polish, and finishing pad /bonnet with very fine abrasive /swirl remoers..at least till you see how the whole process works and what happens.
Lastly, regarding the wetsanding ; I have to leave you with this question: Have you ever wetsanded before?
Your answer will help me evaluate what you need there.
04-29-04, 04:53 PM
#6
Ready for a novel?
Here is an article I wrote a few years ago for another car forum. Either print it out or save it to your computer for reference. There are many other good articles wriiten by others on the subjest, searching Google etc. will yield a few, but this is my rundown of the general subject matter.
Quoting myself here;
Today, I substitute the 3M Perfect-It III Rubbing Compound and 3M Machine Glaze for the previous generation 3M products listed in that article. They do the same thing. Cheers.
Quoting myself here;
This will be a comprehensive rundown because doing it wrong can easily cost you hundreds to thousands of dollars, so...let's get it right. This is written for people attempting to wetsand oem paint for scratches, etching, blemishes etc. and also body shop paint for excessive orange peel or surface debris. Wet sanding can give a car a "show quality" paint finish, and remove many surface issues, but it does take some knowledge and experience to get there. Anyone can learn to do it, but the more you know about your paint and the in's and out's of this skill, the better off you'll be.
First things first; whether you have clearcoat or single stage paint on your car (90 % of todays oem paints are clearcoat) the amount of paint is generally about the same at 1.7 to 2 MILS. 1 MIL is a THOUSANTH OF AN INCH. To understand how thin this is, think about a clear cigarette wrapper, then fold the wrapper over itself (doubled ) THIS IS YOUR PAINT THICKNESS if you have oem paint. This DOES NOT include E coat/primer etc, only the TOP LAYER of paint. Total film build with E-Coat and primer, base color and clearcoat is between 4.5 MILS and 6 MILS generally speaking. Differences depend on make and paint type.
Body shops GENERALLY lay it on a bit thicker because of atomizing reasons at the gun etc. even if they only apply 2 coats (standard) , but you can expect about 2 MILS from them unless you have asked for more coats or been told otherwise.
Why know this? Well...wet sanding removes a LOT of paint even at 2000 grit, so you have to have a bit of an idea just what you have to work with.
The basic premise in wet sanding a body shop job is to remove ONLY the top paint that has dirt/debris and orange peel and overspray from the paint shop, and get a glassy smooth surface. Ok, here's how you do it;
You'll need;
1).A VERY CLEAN bucket.
2). 2000 grit wet sandpaper (3M recommended) 1500 grit is good also , but for a novice I feel 2000 is more user-friendly since it removes paint slower and allows you more control.
3) A foam sanding block and a rubber sanding block. Just get foam if you only get one, but buy both if possible.
4).3M Fine-Cut rubbing compound if by hand (or 3M Perfect-It III Rubbing Compound if you use a rotary+ cutting pad) This is what I use, however-there are MANY product recipes that will get you to the same result.
5).3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material (or equivalent polish) if by hand (or 3M Machine Glaze if using a rotary+ finishing pad)
6). Swirl remover with a finishing pad. Any name brand swirl remover will work.
7).3M Imperial Hand Glaze... If you're applying a WAX afterwards that is. This is optional as it just gets washed away in rain or a carwash, but it will temporarily add depth and gloss. If using a paint sealant/ polymer, skip this step due to bonding issues.
8). PATIENCE!
Take your CLEAN bucket, add a DROP of dishwashing soap and fill the bucket with water. Drop a few pieces of UN-CUT wet sandpaper into the bucket. LET THEM SOAK AT LEAST HALF AN HOUR. This is IMPERATIVE , to soften the paper, or else you will get gouging and cutting from sharp edges or wrinkling.
After the paper has soaked , remove it and place it face down on a flat clean surface, and place the sanding block in the middle of it. Now, you want to FOLD the EDGES of the sandpaper over itself (overlapp the paper) so that there are NO FACTORY EDGES LEFT on the sandpaper. AGAIN-THIS IS AN IMPERATIVE . You WILL get DEEP side cuts from a factory edge that will be IMPOSSIBLE TO REMOVE without repainting. Skip this step and you've wasted your time.
After you've wrapped the paper around the sanding block so there are no factory edges on it, you're ready. Use the foam block with wet paper for areas that have curves and are rounded, use the rubber block for the flat areas. The foam will suffice for all if necessary.The rubber blocks are more rigid so they actually will cut faster too, so be aware of that.
Next, find the ridges and edges and creases and do this; use masking tape to cover them. Sprayed paint is affected by gravity and the film build is always thinner on these areas, so you can't sand them down to the same extent as other areas, and the tape will prevent you from going through.You can always remove it after you're finished sanding the panel and make a light pass over it to blend it with the rest, but if you buff it out properly you'll never notice a line. If you're disciplined and attentive, you can just avoid these areas instead of masking.
Throw some water from the bucket on the panel and work the paper WITH LIGHT PRESSURE in an X pattern, criscrossing over at each pass. This is to ensure a flat and even result in paint removal. DO NOT SAND IN CIRCLES, as you risk getting a wrinkle in the paper that can cause a deep scratch. Every couple passes you want to dunk the paper back in the bucket to rinse and re-wet it (keep the water slightly sudsy to prevent "sticking" or binding of the block ). Some people like to let a garden hose run slowly over the panel, and I've done this too, but you will have to tape the metal hose end or it will scratch up the paint. Make sure the hose has no dirt/sand on it either .
Every few directional passes, STOP, wipe the panel with a cotton towel or clean rubber squeegee, allow it to flash dry so you can see what you've got. It will look dull and hazy, but you will be able to see where you've taken off the surface orange peel because orange peel will appear as darker spots in the hazy paint... WHEN YOU HAVE SUCCESSFULLY REMOVED THE ORANGE PEEL-STOP! Some may want to stop JUST BEFORE the orange peel is flattened out, because it provides more "headroom " for removing future scratches, and also gives an oem look, which you may or may not want.
Do a panel in this manner SLOWLY and dry it to make certain you have sanded EVENLY. You don't want to have some areas where the orange peel is all flattened and gone , and others where it's greatly visible. Err on the side of caution. You can actually COUNT your passes in the X pattern as you move along , and that might help give you uniform paint removal. KEEP THE PAPER/BLOCK WET!
The paper loses it's bite after a panel or so, which then requires more pressure or passes to take the same amount off as initially, so change the paper for each panel at least. Make sure the rest of the paper is SOAKING before you use it. Dump the bucket at each panel too, so any grit/ dirt dosen't get back on the paint. 1 small grit of sand under the block can ruin an otherwise perfect finish.
There will be areas where the X pattern will be difficult to impossible, but just try a perpindicular approach of overlapping. NEVER wet sand with only your hand as a backer in 1 spot. You WILL actually see the indent of your fingers in the finish, especially dark colors. You CAN use your hand in curvy areas that the blocks can't get well, but ALWAYS move it around and overlap, and don't stay in 1 spot for more than a couple passes.
FOR SCRATCHES ONLY: If you're only attempting to sand out a scratch, there are a few things to know. A general rule of thumb is; If you can feel the scratch with your fingernail, it's probably too deep. Also- on clearcoated cars (this won't work with a white car) the scratch MAY be removable if the scratch appears WHITE. This is because urethane clearcoat turns white when it's abraded. If you see the car color INSIDE the scratch, AND/OR as stated you can feel the scratch with your fingernail as you rake across it (your fingernail "catches" on it ) then the scratch is either too deep with little to no paint underneath it, or through the clear completely, and the color you're seeing in the scratch is either basecoat or primer. Touch up or repaint is the only alternative. Now, if you attempt to sand out a do-able scratch, follow all the above wet sanding instructions, BUT, sand primarily in the DIRECTION ( not perpindicular) of the scratch. You will have to sand the surrounding area a bit too, or you will find you have a very flat, glassy area with no orange peel where the scratch WAS,and the rest will have orange peel and the sanded area may look conspicuous. The rule here is; once the orange peel is gone, and the scratch is still visible...you're on dangerous ground. The more inclined you are to keep sanding to remove the scratch fully can either make you a hero or bite you bad if you go too far. You'll know when you sand through-there'll be a different colored area start to appear because the basecoat tone appears a bit different in contrast to a basecoat with clearcoat over it. (On single stage paint you'll see primer when you've sanded through ).You have to decide ahead of time if the scratch bothers you enough to risk it. If you can't live with a touch-up mark on a scratch, then go for it, but you have to accept repainting the panel if you fail, because the sand-through mark will be worse than the scratch touch up in most cases. At least as obvious. A good wet sander can save themselves or others hundreds of dollars for a repaint in removing some scratches , including many on panels that have been "keyed'. Usually, in bad cases , you have nothing to lose in trying.
After you've done a panel to your satisfaction, you need to buff it out with the listed compounds. By hand, you may need to work the rubbing compound 2 maybe 3 times on the panel before you go to the polishing (Finesse-It II ) compound. Same for the polishing compound. Use only COTTON rags or towels if doing by hand.
By rotary, use the other compounds and the appropriate pads. Mirror- like results await you if you have been careful and patient.
This is something that just takes experience. It is TIME CONSUMING, so be patient. I do recommend you practice on a junkyard panel or a lawn mower etc. first. Better safe and it will give you some confidence. I had to make mistakes before I learned what not to do, and got to the point I have with my SC and a few show quality trucks that looked like mirrors, with no mistakes.
A word to anyone wanting to try to completely level all the orange peel on oem paint and make it show quality; Don't. Not unles you are willing to to accept your paint will not least it's normal life expectancy. OEM paint is REAL thin, and you can cost yourself a repaint fast. You only get a handful of passes with the paper ( 1200-1500 grit) and that's all you really get to remove before you're on shaky ground. There is also a rule that states you should never remove more than 3/10ths to 5/10ths of a MIL (varies per manufacturer) when wet sanding or buffing, due to the fact that most of the UV inhibitors migrate to the upper .5 mil of paint on the surface. Taking most of that UV out of the paint leads to premature paint resin failure, at least on cars that regularly sit in the sun. This is one reason show cars can get away with it easier; they're typically garage queens, and most all of them were painted with extra paint from the body shop to allow for wetsanding & paint removal.
If you want to know what "premature paint failure" looks like, well, if you've ever seen a car that had white spotting (blotches) in the clear, you've witnessed it. Once the paint gets too thin the UV is gone and the sun and elements break down the resins.
In closing, this is a very valuable skill that can work wonders on automotive paint, and solve a LOT of problems. But it takes a few tries to get the hang of it, and you should be ready to make mistakes, so realize beforehand what you want to risk and what you don't. Remember;The best rule of thumb in wetsanding = once the orange peel is leveled, you must stop.
First things first; whether you have clearcoat or single stage paint on your car (90 % of todays oem paints are clearcoat) the amount of paint is generally about the same at 1.7 to 2 MILS. 1 MIL is a THOUSANTH OF AN INCH. To understand how thin this is, think about a clear cigarette wrapper, then fold the wrapper over itself (doubled ) THIS IS YOUR PAINT THICKNESS if you have oem paint. This DOES NOT include E coat/primer etc, only the TOP LAYER of paint. Total film build with E-Coat and primer, base color and clearcoat is between 4.5 MILS and 6 MILS generally speaking. Differences depend on make and paint type.
Body shops GENERALLY lay it on a bit thicker because of atomizing reasons at the gun etc. even if they only apply 2 coats (standard) , but you can expect about 2 MILS from them unless you have asked for more coats or been told otherwise.
Why know this? Well...wet sanding removes a LOT of paint even at 2000 grit, so you have to have a bit of an idea just what you have to work with.
The basic premise in wet sanding a body shop job is to remove ONLY the top paint that has dirt/debris and orange peel and overspray from the paint shop, and get a glassy smooth surface. Ok, here's how you do it;
You'll need;
1).A VERY CLEAN bucket.
2). 2000 grit wet sandpaper (3M recommended) 1500 grit is good also , but for a novice I feel 2000 is more user-friendly since it removes paint slower and allows you more control.
3) A foam sanding block and a rubber sanding block. Just get foam if you only get one, but buy both if possible.
4).3M Fine-Cut rubbing compound if by hand (or 3M Perfect-It III Rubbing Compound if you use a rotary+ cutting pad) This is what I use, however-there are MANY product recipes that will get you to the same result.
5).3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material (or equivalent polish) if by hand (or 3M Machine Glaze if using a rotary+ finishing pad)
6). Swirl remover with a finishing pad. Any name brand swirl remover will work.
7).3M Imperial Hand Glaze... If you're applying a WAX afterwards that is. This is optional as it just gets washed away in rain or a carwash, but it will temporarily add depth and gloss. If using a paint sealant/ polymer, skip this step due to bonding issues.
8). PATIENCE!
Take your CLEAN bucket, add a DROP of dishwashing soap and fill the bucket with water. Drop a few pieces of UN-CUT wet sandpaper into the bucket. LET THEM SOAK AT LEAST HALF AN HOUR. This is IMPERATIVE , to soften the paper, or else you will get gouging and cutting from sharp edges or wrinkling.
After the paper has soaked , remove it and place it face down on a flat clean surface, and place the sanding block in the middle of it. Now, you want to FOLD the EDGES of the sandpaper over itself (overlapp the paper) so that there are NO FACTORY EDGES LEFT on the sandpaper. AGAIN-THIS IS AN IMPERATIVE . You WILL get DEEP side cuts from a factory edge that will be IMPOSSIBLE TO REMOVE without repainting. Skip this step and you've wasted your time.
After you've wrapped the paper around the sanding block so there are no factory edges on it, you're ready. Use the foam block with wet paper for areas that have curves and are rounded, use the rubber block for the flat areas. The foam will suffice for all if necessary.The rubber blocks are more rigid so they actually will cut faster too, so be aware of that.
Next, find the ridges and edges and creases and do this; use masking tape to cover them. Sprayed paint is affected by gravity and the film build is always thinner on these areas, so you can't sand them down to the same extent as other areas, and the tape will prevent you from going through.You can always remove it after you're finished sanding the panel and make a light pass over it to blend it with the rest, but if you buff it out properly you'll never notice a line. If you're disciplined and attentive, you can just avoid these areas instead of masking.
Throw some water from the bucket on the panel and work the paper WITH LIGHT PRESSURE in an X pattern, criscrossing over at each pass. This is to ensure a flat and even result in paint removal. DO NOT SAND IN CIRCLES, as you risk getting a wrinkle in the paper that can cause a deep scratch. Every couple passes you want to dunk the paper back in the bucket to rinse and re-wet it (keep the water slightly sudsy to prevent "sticking" or binding of the block ). Some people like to let a garden hose run slowly over the panel, and I've done this too, but you will have to tape the metal hose end or it will scratch up the paint. Make sure the hose has no dirt/sand on it either .
Every few directional passes, STOP, wipe the panel with a cotton towel or clean rubber squeegee, allow it to flash dry so you can see what you've got. It will look dull and hazy, but you will be able to see where you've taken off the surface orange peel because orange peel will appear as darker spots in the hazy paint... WHEN YOU HAVE SUCCESSFULLY REMOVED THE ORANGE PEEL-STOP! Some may want to stop JUST BEFORE the orange peel is flattened out, because it provides more "headroom " for removing future scratches, and also gives an oem look, which you may or may not want.
Do a panel in this manner SLOWLY and dry it to make certain you have sanded EVENLY. You don't want to have some areas where the orange peel is all flattened and gone , and others where it's greatly visible. Err on the side of caution. You can actually COUNT your passes in the X pattern as you move along , and that might help give you uniform paint removal. KEEP THE PAPER/BLOCK WET!
The paper loses it's bite after a panel or so, which then requires more pressure or passes to take the same amount off as initially, so change the paper for each panel at least. Make sure the rest of the paper is SOAKING before you use it. Dump the bucket at each panel too, so any grit/ dirt dosen't get back on the paint. 1 small grit of sand under the block can ruin an otherwise perfect finish.
There will be areas where the X pattern will be difficult to impossible, but just try a perpindicular approach of overlapping. NEVER wet sand with only your hand as a backer in 1 spot. You WILL actually see the indent of your fingers in the finish, especially dark colors. You CAN use your hand in curvy areas that the blocks can't get well, but ALWAYS move it around and overlap, and don't stay in 1 spot for more than a couple passes.
FOR SCRATCHES ONLY: If you're only attempting to sand out a scratch, there are a few things to know. A general rule of thumb is; If you can feel the scratch with your fingernail, it's probably too deep. Also- on clearcoated cars (this won't work with a white car) the scratch MAY be removable if the scratch appears WHITE. This is because urethane clearcoat turns white when it's abraded. If you see the car color INSIDE the scratch, AND/OR as stated you can feel the scratch with your fingernail as you rake across it (your fingernail "catches" on it ) then the scratch is either too deep with little to no paint underneath it, or through the clear completely, and the color you're seeing in the scratch is either basecoat or primer. Touch up or repaint is the only alternative. Now, if you attempt to sand out a do-able scratch, follow all the above wet sanding instructions, BUT, sand primarily in the DIRECTION ( not perpindicular) of the scratch. You will have to sand the surrounding area a bit too, or you will find you have a very flat, glassy area with no orange peel where the scratch WAS,and the rest will have orange peel and the sanded area may look conspicuous. The rule here is; once the orange peel is gone, and the scratch is still visible...you're on dangerous ground. The more inclined you are to keep sanding to remove the scratch fully can either make you a hero or bite you bad if you go too far. You'll know when you sand through-there'll be a different colored area start to appear because the basecoat tone appears a bit different in contrast to a basecoat with clearcoat over it. (On single stage paint you'll see primer when you've sanded through ).You have to decide ahead of time if the scratch bothers you enough to risk it. If you can't live with a touch-up mark on a scratch, then go for it, but you have to accept repainting the panel if you fail, because the sand-through mark will be worse than the scratch touch up in most cases. At least as obvious. A good wet sander can save themselves or others hundreds of dollars for a repaint in removing some scratches , including many on panels that have been "keyed'. Usually, in bad cases , you have nothing to lose in trying.
After you've done a panel to your satisfaction, you need to buff it out with the listed compounds. By hand, you may need to work the rubbing compound 2 maybe 3 times on the panel before you go to the polishing (Finesse-It II ) compound. Same for the polishing compound. Use only COTTON rags or towels if doing by hand.
By rotary, use the other compounds and the appropriate pads. Mirror- like results await you if you have been careful and patient.
This is something that just takes experience. It is TIME CONSUMING, so be patient. I do recommend you practice on a junkyard panel or a lawn mower etc. first. Better safe and it will give you some confidence. I had to make mistakes before I learned what not to do, and got to the point I have with my SC and a few show quality trucks that looked like mirrors, with no mistakes.
A word to anyone wanting to try to completely level all the orange peel on oem paint and make it show quality; Don't. Not unles you are willing to to accept your paint will not least it's normal life expectancy. OEM paint is REAL thin, and you can cost yourself a repaint fast. You only get a handful of passes with the paper ( 1200-1500 grit) and that's all you really get to remove before you're on shaky ground. There is also a rule that states you should never remove more than 3/10ths to 5/10ths of a MIL (varies per manufacturer) when wet sanding or buffing, due to the fact that most of the UV inhibitors migrate to the upper .5 mil of paint on the surface. Taking most of that UV out of the paint leads to premature paint resin failure, at least on cars that regularly sit in the sun. This is one reason show cars can get away with it easier; they're typically garage queens, and most all of them were painted with extra paint from the body shop to allow for wetsanding & paint removal.
If you want to know what "premature paint failure" looks like, well, if you've ever seen a car that had white spotting (blotches) in the clear, you've witnessed it. Once the paint gets too thin the UV is gone and the sun and elements break down the resins.
In closing, this is a very valuable skill that can work wonders on automotive paint, and solve a LOT of problems. But it takes a few tries to get the hang of it, and you should be ready to make mistakes, so realize beforehand what you want to risk and what you don't. Remember;The best rule of thumb in wetsanding = once the orange peel is leveled, you must stop.
04-29-04, 05:56 PM
#7
Here is a good tip if you are planning on using a rotary buffer for the first time. Go to a junk yard and buy a hood off a junker. Take it home and clamp it to a couple of sawhorses. Experiment till your skills are developed. Try painting, sanding and compounding. Then polishing and waxing. Try different products and buffing pads. Get really comfortable with the rotary before using it on your ride.
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