HarrierAWD

For years, I've always waxed my car with light or no downward pressure. I applied the wax gently, let it dry a bit, then buff it off lightly. But the bottle says "rub the wax in." What's that mean? Should I push down hard when I apply the wax to make it really stick onto the surface?

I am afraid that doing so might scratch the surface. So inputs from the wax experts here are appreciated.

jfelbab

If you are speaking of a pure wax, one without cleaners, then a light even coating is all that is needed and thin is better.

If you are talking about a cleaner/wax then some rubbing is in order to release the grime. I prefer to use discrete products to clean and to wax. I use Meguiar's #80 to clean and polish the paint and then NXT to seal the surface on most of the cars I do.

bizzy928

Continue waxing your car with light or no downward pressure.
Rubbing in a wax will just create more and more swirl marks.

The only time you would apply a bit more pressure is if you were using a polishing compound and a high speed buffer. (But watch out, too much pressure using the polisher could lead to holographing)

EFMJR

iTrader: (4)

(But watch out, too much pressure using the polisher could lead to holographing)

Just out of curiosity what is holographing?

Guitarman

Holograms are marring that have a 3 dimensionality to them, and change with the angle of viewpoint. They can be seen in bright sunlight the best. Although the human eye sees them more dramitically than a picture can, here is one example nonetheless;

inkblot

How can you remove holographing if that happens?

LB Lex

Use a back-and-forth motion, don't go in circles or else you might create swirl marks, spider marks, or holograms. Also, use a small amount of product because putting it on too thick will make it more difficult to remove. Furthermore, multiple thin coats look much better than one or two thick coats.
http://autopia.org/kb/index.php?page..._v2&id=25&c=16

EFMJR

iTrader: (4)

[QUOTE=Guitarman]Holograms are marring that have a 3 dimensionality to them, and change with the angle of viewpoint. They can be seen in bright sunlight the best. Although the human eye sees them more dramitically than a picture can, here is one example nonetheless;




So thats what the detail shop did to my gs400. They were sapose to be the top shop in town and turned out to be a nightmare . I might even need to repaint. Thanks for the info.

Guitarman

Don't rush into getting a repaint. Either complain to the shop that messed it up and make them fix it, or take it to a qualified detailer. These problems are fixable.

You can even do it yourself with the proper patience, knowledge, and materials. Good luck.

EFMJR

iTrader: (4)

guitarman, thanks for the encouragement but there a story behind my problems. This all
might be a bit off subject but has to do with the detail shop. I took it there because I bought the car aprox three wees ago and when I bougt it it looked like it had a slight bit of waterspots on the roof, I just figured that the car lot had washed the car and not dried it quick enough. the water here is really hard and spots easily so I wasnt too concerned. when It then rained for the next three day and then I washed it and whamo, the roof was all whitish (looked like oxidation/waterspts/molttled looking) I continued to watch it spread, and I mean you could almost stand there and watch it spread over the roof and hood and spoiler. as the next couple of days I was not a happy camper. I was watching my beutyful car start to wither in front of me. I was not a happy camper. That is where the detail shop came into play. I droped it off and they said no problem, they could fix it. They gave me the whole lecture about how they use the best products by 3m. So i left my faith in them that when I returned my precious car would be all shinny and sparkly. But when I came back to pick it up, it was sparkly, but the problem was just shinny now except where they had mannaged to cut throught the whittishness of the roof. Then hood and spoiler was good. When I asked them what had happend they told me the clear must be bad and that they knew of a really good paint shop. Whell I came home and spent 5hrs on the roof alone with mequires crystal ? (cant rember) paint cleaner #1, paint polish #2 and mequires mtx wax. It removed all the whiteness and was like glass. . I was ha happy camper now. Well over the last 3 days I have watched the white plage on my roof slowly starting to come back . It seems like when Its sunny and warm it grows, but not at night when its cool and dark it doesnt grow. Its wierd, In the sun you have to really look for it and have to hit it at the right angle to see it but park in the shade and wham there it is. Im clueless. I do reserch and development for a industrial paint manufacturer for the last 8 years and dont even know how to exsplain it. I showed it to the owner of the company who has been in the paint industry for almost 30 years and he just scratched his head and didnt know what to tell me. I took pictures of it while I was cleaning it but havent had time to see if you can see it in photos. Maby ill check them out tommorrow. So any suggestions on what it could be would be greatly apprieciated, I dont wish to paint but this Is driving me crazy. Hell I even thought about color sanding and buffing that out to see if it helps. (just the roof at first.) If it helps at all the car was originaly sold in dallas texas and was owned there for 5 years and was then resold a a certified preowned and then ended up in fresno, ca. and then I bought it. when I had it all buffed out I examened the surface thoughly and it almost looked like it might possibly had been reclear coated, and when they did it had some contamination, almost like small fisheyes but hard to describe. It almost looks like the spots will seep something throught the wax and then it has polka dots So im stumped.

Guitarman

Wow, that's indeed a strange one...even with what I know about paint I'm franky stumped as well. I can think of causes but the rapidity with which it fogs/whitens up is way faster than any typical clearcoat failure I've ever come across. It just doesn't happen quite that fast .

Normally, when the clear is too thin the UV inhibitors are depleted beyond the point where there's any protection for the resin system in the clearcoat. Then the clear will start "chalking" or turning white and begin to delaminate. You've not mentioned delamination or flaking, so that scenario doesn't seem to apply at all. And that takes a while, it's not as if you can watch it happening.

.
One good possibility is "die back" which is a pronounced dulling caused by the continual loss of solvent in the paint after polishing it. The sun exacerbates the process. Being that you've seen both the detail shop find this out, as well as yourself, It's a clue. Die back would be more an issue with older oem paint, less so on a car that was recently painted, though it can happen if the shop screws up. Does the paint look oem? Or a repaint?

No, I'm not certain that's for sure. If you could take some pictures it would be interesting, though I can't guarantee I'd have a definitive answer for you.

The fact that all the polishing so far has been done to no avail, tells me that wetsanding also will not work, may make it worse. Then again, when you're at the point of thinking about repainting, what do you really have to lose?

Is the problem on every panel of the car? Or only the horizontal areas?

HarrierAWD

Since it only happens to horizontal surfaces, my best guess is chemical fallout from nearby industrial source. Try Saran wrap your hood and compare it against the roof.

Or a new species of fungus has been found.....

EFMJR

iTrader: (4)

Its only on the horizontal portions of the car. The car does look like it has possibly had a layer of clear put on at lease the roof. I have not stripped the wax off anyother part to check the paint surface itself, only the roof. It Looks like possibly some very small fisheye like specks in it or in my "CSI examination of it", It could possibly be hail dammage that somone sprayed clear over. It look like little indents but feels smooth to the touch. You could see like a ring around it. Almost like a contamination issue. But still why the fog/hazyness/waterspot looking problem.

I checked the roof today and the "plage as I call it" is creeping through the surface again, but at a slower rate. Also where I spent more time polishing by hand it hasnt returned yet. Im just waiting to see what happens. Meanwhile the hood and spoiler is just being consumed by the plage, since I havent done anythig to those areas since the detail shop. My arms gave out after doing the roof. I guess its time to buy a buffer if I do any more of this. Ill try to check the pictures out and if they turned out alright I will try to post them tonight or in the morn.
Thanks for any info and help.

Also if I have discoverd a new fungus do i get to name it after myself?

Guitarman

Not to make you feel worse than you already do, but that's the damnedest paint related thing I think I've heard of in all my years on the Internet car boards. Not knowing the complete history of the car and who did what to it in years past makes it really difficult to ascertain.

Guessing sure won't help you solve your problem, especially my lame guesses, but I sure would like to know if you find out the cause or solve the problem in one way or another. Keep us updated. Best of luck.

markesc

iTrader: (2)

Sounds to me like the paint/base coat was heated/baked on (the proper way) and the clearcoat was not. Meaning they did it in 2 stages one properly and the other ghetto style. So the clearcoat shrank upon drying at a faster rate, creating spider webbing....and leading it to being pourus and not bonding to the base coat, or they simply used a cheap clear coat...basically the clear coat and base coat could have been done at 2 different times and diff. temps...that's my guess....

Bottom line, sounds to me like you need a repaint no matter what. The waxes will 'seal' for only so long, then once moisture gets by them you see the spotting...but the same thing can be seen under heat/sun...the cear and the base coat begin to detach as the air between them heats up (under expansion)...

That sucks, but I've had a car that does somewhat the same thing....just my GUESS at what could have happend......

Again, I'm not the expert, so don't cap on me, but that's my best guess.