STR8-UP-G

Last week i skinned another car with my gs430. These are the damages caused. My fender was messed up, there were a few minor scratches on the front and rear passenger side doors (no dents). I took it to a body shop and had it repaired. They told me that they would have to replace the front fender and sand the whole passenger side down and repaint it. I got my car back on Saturday and noticed they didnt do a good job.

1) There are swirl marks galor. Who ever buffed the car did not know what he was doing.

2) I dont think they sanded the car down.

3) At certain angles I can see areas that looks like there is no clear coat on it. I cant explain it, you 'll have to see i'll try and post pics tomorrow. Not sure if the camera will catch what im taling about.

4) I can see paint over spray on the rubber trmmings along the windows.

I want to take it back and have them re do it or gove me my money back. I am pissed off, i knew i should not have taken it to a shop i wasnt familiar with. the only reason i took it there was because it was cheap ($1700). If there are any body guys here, i got a few questions i want to ask.

1) Do they have to sand the whole side down just to paint over some light scratches? Keep in mind that there were no dents on the doors, just light scratches.

2) Is it possible to paint the car and macth the paint completely? I heard that if they replace and paint a fender, they have to spray a clear coat on other parts of the car to match the paint. Is this true?

Guitarman

What they're referring to is a "blend" and it involves the basecoat as the important factor, not so much the clear. It would be difficult to tell the oem clear from the new clear, but it would be OBVIOUS to tell the old basecoat color from the new if they didn't match. This is why (ESPECIALLY with metallica and pearls, less so with white or black-but still sometimes necessary) they must blend the color coat with the adjacent panel(s). Is it possible to paint part of the car to match the old paint? Yes, absolutely, if they are good they can. If they aren't accomplished at it or as highly skilled then probably not. Some colors are problematic and they have to mess with the mix and other methodology to get the color to match. If they rely on the paint mix out of the can to match perfectly, they will usually fail miserably, unless they "get lucky".


Well, they would have to scuff the clear with 800-1000 grit and reclear the panel. They should look into how much pailnt (MIL thickness ) is on the panel first, because if they keep on layering paint after paint then they'll eventually reach critical mass as to the limit they can have on there before you start having even bigger problems down the road (yes-you CAN have too much paint on a car) You're probably fine if they only repaint over their first paint(and the oem paint before that) but it would be good if they were consciencous enough to measure it.





This one is likely because they sprayed the clear "dry" in certain spots, i.e. they didin't apply it wet enough to provide uniform gloss.

I have seen a few bad repaints where the same problem was evident. Dull paint in areas where they didn't apply enough to "flow out".

By all means, go back and list everything you've mentioned here, point by point, and have them make it right.

I'm sorry this happened to you Ben, but you're not alone. It's one reason I learned to paint cars myself years ago- too few people seem to take pride in their work anymore, it's all get'em in and get 'em out and make the money.Let us know how it goes.

P.S. If they don't feel they can leave the car swirl free, make them pay a detailer who CAN.

RX469

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear that.

Yes you should definatley have another talk with this shop about redoing this work.

I'd like to see your pics when you post them. Good luck.

STR8-UP-G

Thanks for your detailed explanations, Dan. I went to the shop today and they admit that they did not do a good job. They told me to bring it back to them anytime and they will "refinish it". I dont want them to mess it up even more by trying to fix it. I have 2 options in mind. Here is the first. Since i only paid 850 out of 1700, i feel like telling them to keep the 850 for replacing and painting the fender and im not going to pay them the other half. Does this sound like reasonable offer. I would not want them to make it worst (not that it is that bad, but I know it is there and it bothers me. This is the other option, I want to tell them exactly what they need to do using body shop terminlogy. Can you let me know what is the proper steps and procedures to complete this kind of bodywork. This way, they must do it properly without cutting any corners. Dan, Can you please let me know the proper way to repaint one side of a black car? I also want to know if they have to sand the entire side down and start with a good canvas. Thanks Dan.

STR8-UP-G

I will post pics tomorrow. I would appreciate CL members comments on the paint job.

Guitarman

Ben, though I can appreciate where you're coming from, you want to be careful because they may resent you telling them their job and how to do it (although admittedly they must have some inexperienced people there or they would've done it right to begin with).

Seriously. THEY should tell YOU what and HOW they'll fix it. Let them outline the methods they use to prep the paint for refinish, how many coats they'll spray, and even what brand of paint they will use.


For your own edification (to compare with what they tell you) here's some tips;

If they will be applying just clear over the old clear, they will need to scuff it with about 800 grit (some go to 1000 but no finer should be used).

If they are going to apply base then clear, then they will need to sand the old paint with 400-600 first, or the equivalent (red Scotchbrite ) scuff pad.

They should spray either 1 full wet coat of clear or one medium coat followed by a wet coat(what I do). Shops are known to use 1 coat to save $$$ on paint. This is usually why you see dull or glazed areas in places as they spray thin (or don't finish their gun stroke beyond a panel)when they are getting low on paint or trying to stretch their material for the job.

You DO NOT need more than 2 coats unless they are going to colorsand the heck out of it to get a show finish. They likely wouldn't do this anyway on a car with oem paint on other parts of it because it will have to match the oem paint texture, and they'll need to leave a little orange peel etc. in there. If they do sand make sure they know to sand to the texture of the paint on the rest of the car, so it isn't obviously "nicer" to the eye than the oem paint.It should all look cohesive as the same paint.

They need to buff the car correctly afterward, ending with the finest polish and worked according to the correct methodology, i.e. up & down overlapping, then perpindicular over laps, then across the area at a 45 degree angle, working the polish till it begins to dry out. They should be using a finish pad at that point.

You never know...I've seen people take a cutting pad and then go through 2-3 steps with different compounds and finer polishes using the SAME pad. This can certainly explain swirls and buffer marks. More often I believe they use a compound and never finish with a fine polish. Again, they skip a step to save time and money.

You can't be in a hurry with a rotary buffer and expect good results. Often too, the shop will utilize a "newbie" or the low guy on the totem pole to buff the car out. Bad idea, unless he's skilled. It makes even good paint work look bad, and they wind up having the car come back to them and they have to lose time doing it again.

Again, don't try to be too much of a know- it -all to them in how you approach them with your information. Try to compare what they tell you with what you now know, and if you feel they are skipping a step then ask them about it and why.

Let us know what happens, good luck.

STR8-UP-G

Thank again Dan. I am sure they did a half fast job on my car because the rubber trimmings around the windows all have paint overspray. When i called once to follow up on the progress of my car, the guy told me he was color sanding it. Now that you mentioned the orange peel effect, I noticed the first day i got my car back that there were orange specs in the paint. I wish you were in LA so i can show you what a mickey mouse job they did. I tried taking pictures of the dull ares but it doesnt show up in the pictures. However i managed to get pictures of my front bumper. You can tell that these guys are amatures. Look at the gap betwwen the headlight and the bumper. The reason I want to tell them how I want the car redone is so that they know im not a sucker. They can always tell me one thing but do the other. I cant be there watching them all day. What i really want is for them to discount the other payment of $850 due at the end of this month. I already gave them$850 and I think that is all they deserve. I want to take it to a reputable shop and have them do the painting. Since they did replace the fender, I'll let them keep the $850 but I dont want to pay them more. Im a reasonable guy and I dont want to rip anyone off. Does this deal sound fair to you? If they did such a poor job the first around, im not too sure they can improve by much. I should have known when i didnt see any certifications at the shop. I cant beleive they would try to save on paint. How much can PPG paint cost? If that was the case, all they needed to do was let me know and lll pay for more paint. Jesus, what have i gotton myself into.

Guitarman

Ben, 'orange peel' actually refers to the texture of the paint, not the color, so I'm not sure what the orange specs are, save for maybe overspray from them painting another vehicle nearby yours with an orangish paint.

The orange peel texture is similar to the mottled / cratered skin texture of the skin of the orange, which is where the term comes from.

As for the cost of PPG paint, well, it depends on which line of PPG they used. PPG sells expensive high end paint, and (like all manufacturers) they sell low end lines or "budget" paint as well.
I think the $850 should suffice for them and that you shouldn't pay any more UNLESS they can give you a top quality finish after all is said and done. I certainly would not give them any more up front to fix it.

Otherwise, you'll need that extra money to take it elsewhere to have it fixed correctly. If they can't deliver the results you want the 2nd time, just cut your losses and chalk it up to (bad) experience, and find a shop with a quality reputation.

We all get screwed over in life, you will learn from it and be smarter next time. Don't beat yourself up over it.

Yours is among numerous body shop horror stories I've seen in just a 3 years here at CL and in other forums. It almost seems as if there's a 50/50 chance anymore of finding a shop that does it right the first time. Those are not good odds my friend. Good luck.

Guitarman

Here are the picsBen sent me in the form of attatchments ;

Guitarman

Another....

Guitarman

Other headlight area;

Guitarman

I'm having a hard time seeing the problem areas Ben. black is difficult because there's so much reflection that things tend to 'blend in" with it all. Maybe it's my 48 year old eyes, hopefully some of the other (younger) guys can pick out what you're referring to.

STR8-UP-G

Thank you Dan. I really appreciate your advise. You are a class act and is second to none!!! The picture of the headlights has a gap between the headlight and bumper. The other pic that shows the whole car is how my car used to look when it was still pretty.

Guitarman

Ok, I do see the gap now that you mention it. The car looks awesome in the "before" picture. Let us know what they do and how it turns out.

STR8-UP-G

Thanks Dan. Without your advice, my car would have never looked like that. I simply followed your instructions and, Voila!!!

Since you mentioned the orange peel effect, I believe i have some of that on my car too; not bad but at various angles, it is totally noticible. To top the orange peel effect off, it also looks dull in certain areas. I wish i could capture a picture of what im describing. But judging by how they mounted my bumper only shows that they are not professional. I will keep everyone updated on the outcome.