sha4000

iTrader: (1)

i was told by the bodyshop that even though i dont have a clear coat(98 black onyx)when they do a repaint i should put clear on top of any panels that are painted. is this right or do i just stick with the single stage?

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

bump tttttttt

picus

This is a really complicated question. The quick answer is yes. It is likely that shop is only set up to do two stage painting since single stage is becoming more and more rare. If that's the case you really only have the pigment + clear option. That's not a bad thing, by the way - a quality two stage re-paint should look as good as a factory single stage paint job and will be just as, if not more durable. Just make sure that if they do go that route that you make it clear you will not accept a poor paint job. Bring someone who knows what to look for to make sure you don't see any fisheyes or excessive OP (some is inevitable), especially since you can't color-sand two stage paint, so any OP you have you're stuck with. Id also let them know you expect to have them show you the thickness of the paint with a paint thinkness gauge when the work is complete. That may sound a little excessive, but nothing is worse than having a too thin clear coat.

Cheers.

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

thanks picus, i was just wondering b/c im not getting the whole car done just the hood, the bodykit and the bottom door panels b/c i want the whole car black. will there be a noticeable difference btw the clear and the single stage when you lok at the car?

picus

Hrm, I didn't realize it was just some panels. That makes the decision a little more difficult. What I would do is have them paint one panel (the smallest one) with a clear coat and see how it looks. It *should* match, but it will be difficult for them to get the gloss to match under bright light. The clear coated panels will "want" to be glossier, just by virtue of having a top coat of enamel. That's what I would personally do. If they can match one then you're good to go. If not you only have to have that one test panel re-painted. The tough part in that case is finsing someone that will re-paint single stage.

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

thanks for all of your help you seem to know your stuff now if you were me what would you do? a total repaint is out of the question b/c im not trying to spend that kind of money

picus

If I were you I would find a shop whose work I could see examples of, have them paint one panel with a two stage job, see if it's good and if it is have them do the rest of the panels. If it didn't match/wasnt a good job I'd find a shop that will do a single stage job to match.

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

thanks i will take your advice

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

If cleared only on a few panels it will be noticable if . At least I could tell. If I came across a car for sale that was partially cleared I would simply walk away. Paint will fade differently as well.
The car came with one stage paint-my suggestion is to keep it that way unless you repaint the whole car the right way. Just my 2 cents.
Lee

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

QUOTE=Pearlpower]If cleared only on a few panels it will be noticable if . At least I could tell. If I came across a car for sale that was partially cleared I would simply walk away. Paint will fade differently as well.
this is what i was thinking, but it would take a long time to fade with a good paint job right?

picus

If the job is done right the gloss should be similar. It will still be notiable by a pro, though - but only in direct light. I wouldn't sweat the fading, it will take so long for them to fade differently that the car should be long dead. Then again it is a Lexus.

Of course if you can find a single stage paint place go with them, all I was saying above is if done right the two stage should be ok.

DetMich1

I also have a black onyx 1998 GS400. I had a new rear bumper installed. The body shop (very high end , high quality work) insisted on doing 2 stage paint as that is the only way they can provide the lifetime guarantee on their work. I was skeptical but the result is excellent. Now that I have polished and sealed/waxed all panels it is impossible to differentiate between the one stage and two stage paint.

jfelbab

I would not clear the panels. As mentioned earlier, orange peel is usually apparent in all clears and clear coat cannot be sanded much to remove it like it can in single stage finishes. If you remove any more than .3 to .4 mils of clear you will risk premature clear coat failure according to paint manufacturers. Your total clear thickness is only 1.5 - 2 mils, much thinner than a piece of paper. Under the clear is about 2-3 mils of black base coat. You have likely seen cars with failed clear coats. Modern single stage paint is just as durable as the clear coated paints. It is, after all basically the same polyurethane with pigment. Single stage paint can be sanded to remove orange peel. It can also be polished many times and scratch and swirl removal is a lot easier.

Another point is that scratches and swirls are much more visible on cc finishes on black cars. Light actually gets behind the scratch and makes it look white against the black surface. This doesn't happen on black single stage paint.

My final point is that I've not seen a good black color on clear coated finishes. They either look blue or brown in direct sunlight. If you want the paint to match perfectly I'd have the panels painted with single stage Onyx Black.

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

thanks for all the info. i will try to find a shop that does single stage b4 i settle for the 2 stage
[QUOTE=DetMich1]I also have a black onyx 1998 GS400. I had a new rear bumper installed. The body shop (very high end , high quality work) insisted on doing 2 stage paint as that is the only way they can provide the lifetime guarantee on their work. I was skeptical but the result is excellent. Now that I have polished and sealed/waxed all panels it is impossible to differentiate between the one stage and two stage paint.[/QUOTE
this is good to know just in case i cant find a shop that does the single stage near me.

Guitarman

What everyone needs to understand here is that single stage urethane (which is what the oem black onyx of that era is) and the the paint the clearcoated cars use THE SAME paint. They are BOTH urethane enamel, the only difference is that the clear is non-pigmented, and sits atop a waterborne ( in the case of oem) basecoat.. They can also BOTH be wetsanded to the same degree, which means MINIMAL, as they both have UV inhibitors that migrate up to the surface.

Sand a single stage too far and you'll remove most or all of it and then the paint will never keep a gloss, it'll "die-back" fast and oxidize. The clear OTOH will also fail, but a different way. The resin system will break down and the bond between base/clear will eventually fail. If you've ever seen a car with white flaking paint, that's one type of clearcoat failure.

I would get the same paint myself, as is on the rest of the car, but that's me. You will have to keep the paint protected and give it ample attention to keep a car with mixed media looking the same. It can be done, it's just more needy.

But you'll of course have to find a shop willing to spray single stage urethane,, which shouldn't be a problem really.