richbutler

Hi All!

I've been using Klasse (both the all-in-one and sealant) for many years. I just got a silver es350. I have been hearing the praises of Zaino for quite a while. Is Zaino worth the hassle of mixing? Is Zaino more durable than Klasse? Is it worth the switch?

Also, for users of Blackfire and FMJ....what are your thoughts of how they stack up against Klasse for shine and durability? Many love the new Blackfire and FMJ line.

Thanks!

picus

I've used them all, here are my thoughts.

1) They're all really good lines and you'll get good results from any of them used properly with good paint prep.

2) In your case metallic silver is just about the most forgiving color, so again, this works in your favor since any of them will look great.

3) In terms of ease of use I would rate them like this from easiest to toughest.

FMJ
Blackfire
Zaino
Klasse SG

Why? FMJ and Blackfire are virtually idential for use; apply a thin layer, let haze, buff off. Both remove effortlessly but the consistency of blackfire makes it a bit easier to apply thin. If you're using a PC it won't matter. Zaino is also incredibly easy to apply and buff off (if applied very thin), but the addition of ZFX, while an incredibly minor detail, works against it just from an ease of use standpoint. Klasse SG is definitely yhe toughest to use because it can be hard to buff off. If you've never had an issue with it in that regard the other three will be cake.

4) In terms of durabilty I'd say you're looking at something like this:

Zaino
SG
FMJ
Blackfire

Zaino and SG are similar in durabilty; 5-6 months easily out of 2 coats (for good coverage). FMJ is more like 4-5 months, and Blackfire is more like 3-5 months. One little note here: of the 4 Menzerna is the only one with a true spray on acrylic booster (High Gloss Acrylic Sealant), which can be used after a wash in 5 minutes to an additional 3-4 months of durabilty. Another interesting note - it can be used with any of these 4, even Zaino.

In terms of looks I'd say they will all look virtually identical. I don't even think the owner (you) could tell the difference if shown the car on consecutive days not knowing which was on it.

In terms of cost, well you have SG. Blackfire is probably the cheapest on it's own, followed by Zaino then FMJ/HGAS.

If it were me I'd just keep using the SG you have, maybe buy a bottle of HGAS to maintain it after washes, or don't and just keep layering the SG. If you have a bug and want to experiment flip a coin.

I hope this helps.

shftup

I use FMJ with HGAS - very easy to apply, not to mention quick!

richbutler

Thanks Picus!

Your input has been valuable. It is hard to tell how much is hype ad how much is truth when you look at the promo literature. Having used the Klasse product line for a while, I have gotten used to the challenge of removing the SG....applying a thinner layer is a big benefit!

As a quick detail spray, I sometimes us a little all-in-one with water in spray bottle. However, I will try your suggestion of the polymer detail spray on my next order.

I will probably stay with the Klasse line...however the Zaino is tempting for the extra durability.

I can usually get about 6 months out of 2 layers of SG before it needs to be re-applied. Both my cars are garaged at work and at home though. I also hand wash them myself using very little car washing soap, because the dirt and bird poop just fly off the paint with water.

Based on your detailing expertise, is the Klasse SG more prone to attracting dust through static cling? My cars attract dust and airborne dirt like no tomorrow! Also, will the Zaino, FMJ or Blackfire have the water sheet off the car more instead of bead up like the Klasse SG?

Thanks again,
Rich

picus

I think you're wise to stick with the Klasse stuff you have; since the results on silver will be so similar it only makes sense to use what you've got before experimenting with something else. If you're getting 6 months from SG then you're getting Zaino-esque durabilty as it is; if you do get some HGAS you'll just be extending that almost indefinitely if you use it say once a month after a wash. Maybe when you run out of SG try some FMJ/HGAS or Zaino. Even the newly formulated Poorboys EX-P might be worth a shot. Actually speaking of other sealants another for you to look into (when you're done with SG) is Jeffs Werkstatt Acrylic Jett. The Prime/AJ combo looks great on silver and is super easy to apply/remove, plus they have AJ trigger which is similar to HGAS (a spray sealant). Interestingly Werkstatt stuff was originally produced by the makers of.... Klasse.

Regarding dust, none of the products mentioned here will repel dust - they all seem to gather it similarly. I've used all 4 and have never noticed a difference in the amount of dust my car picks up. Two things I do to mitigate this is first using Finish Kare #425 (fk1usa.com), it's a quick detailer with anti static properties. Now for the most part anti-static claims with regard to detailing products are a bunch of phooey, but this stuff does seem to work. I've been using it for about two months now with good results. It looks and smells nice too. I ordered the FK sampler ($20 and they send you like 6 products), it's kind of neat. I liked Pink Wax and 425 so much I ordered more of each. FX-100 is their version of Menzerna HGAS, so if you do order from fk1, you could skip the HGAS and get some of that too; they are almost identical.

The second is Poorboys Spray and Wipe. This doesn't prevent dust in any way, but it makes cleaning it off a lot easier. Washing is kind of a pain so I'll often just wipe off the dust once every day or two, just apply liberally and wipe off with a clean mf (you'll use 4 mf's or so). I've been using it awhile and have been very happy with it. As a black car owner I know what a pain dust can be. Actually as a testament of my S&W love here is a pic.



In the reflection you'll see a large container about halfway filled with a greenish liquid. That's my 12 gallon spray and wipe. Like I said, I like it a lot.

Regarding the way they bead water all 4 products seem to bead the same to me. If I had to pick one for the best "sheeting" action it'd probably be FMJ but only because I've used HGAS over that and it's incredibly slick. Like I said though, I'd have a tough time telling the difference based on beading/sheeting, they all do a great job of it.

Cheers.

richbutler

Thanks for all the info. Jeff's products look good. When I run out of SG, I will try the prime and AJ. I like Jeff's approach of a decent product, a good price, and a practical approach not filled with marketing hype.

picus

Me too, and their products live up to the hype. Prime/AJ will be very easy for you since it's so similar to AIO/SG. Have fun.

shftup

PICUS - I think you should sell of that nice product in smaller portions to us Canadians (non business owners)...........you order by the gallon I assume?

picus

I order it in 6 gallon quantities and at the price savings I could sell it cheaply, but honestly it wouldn't be worth it conssidering you can get it from eshine.ca for an already awesome price. Plus Chris is a good guy, his service is really good, shipping is quick, etc...

http://eshine.ca/proddetail.php?prod=PBS%26W&cat=15

Only $13.99 for 32oz (which is a big bottle). You would probably get a solid 20-30 uses out of that.

I actually still order a large quantity of my stuff from them.

shftup

Thanks - what would you suggest for polish(as i have a few minor swirl/scratches) - everyone pumps up RMG from autopia. I have diamond pearl white for paint.
I really dont want to put anything thats an abbrasive - so was thinking Menzerna glaze instead. I hear/read good things about IP and Polish II.
But being a rookie - not sure if I want to get 'into' it with polishes.

Also - What would suggest for a clay bar?

picus

Well if you don't want to go with abrasive polishes you're kind of stuck witha glaze, which is why folks are recommending RMG. As far as glazes go RMG, Megs #7, and Menzerna FTG are all very good. IP and FPII are both abrasive compounds. Just be aware that a glazes purpose is to hide imperfections, not remove them; as such you'll need to re-apply it every 3-4 weeks to keep the marring hidden.

As for clay, almost all of it is made by one of two manufacturers so it's basically all the same. Grab a clay bar + quick detailer as lube at a local store.

Cheers.

hendjaz

"Two things I do to mitigate this is first using Finish Kare #425 (fk1usa.com), it's a quick detailer with anti static properties. Now for the most part anti-static claims with regard to detailing products are a bunch of phooey, but this stuff does seem to work. I've been using it for about two months now with good results. It looks and smells nice too. I ordered the FK sampler ($20 and they send you like 6 products), it's kind of neat. I liked Pink Wax and 425 so much I ordered more of each. FX-100 is their version of Menzerna HGAS, so if you do order from fk1, you could skip the HGAS and get some of that too; they are almost identical. "

Many thanks to Picus for the above information. Based on this I have used the FK #425 and #100 and they are just as indicated here by Picus. I have defintely seen a reduction (almost elimination) of dust since using the #425 as a QD and also got the sampler kit and have been using the window cleaner solution which also includes anti-static properties. End result is clean windows and without dust accumulation. I did a minor detail of our 2 black 400h and 450h with the #100 sealant first and then the QD #100 over that and wow what a mirror like shine. And next morning no dust accumulation.

Haven't tried the FK pink wax yet and will be interesting to see how it matches next to my favorite PB Natty's Blue. So far though Natty's Blue wins on aroma alone. You got to smell it and see it to believe it.

Thanks again Picus for the excellent tip on FK products.

picus

Nice - glad they're working out for you. Pink Wax is a good product, very easy to apply and remove and it looks lot like P21S. If you like the way Nattys looks Pink Wax may be a bit too subtle for you, but it's got good durabilty and the price is right!

Enjoy that #425, I've already re-ordered twice.

yESman

I agree with most of what Picus said but I find that SG dulls the finish optically whereas Zaino is clear. One advantage is in Z-8 which practically restores the original Zaino application after every wash and creates nice slickness.

I like AIO a lot however, particularly the older formula.

picus

Just a note: It's funny I found blackfire and FMJ so similar; turns out their almost the same thing, both made by Menzerna.