GS4Will

Hey Guys,

just wondering about the premium detail goodies from these two co. has anyone tried both on their polish and wax items? how do they compare in terms of result and effort/time needed to take care of minor scratches ?

thanks for any input.

william

Mean Gene

Will - Their polishes are actually two different types. Griots offers true polishes with varying degrees of abrasives of which Zaino has none. I use the Griot's Polish 3 ( the mildest ) to remove deeper swirls & scratches than Z-5 can. Then I wash the area with Zaino's wash & apply the Z-1 followed by Z-5. The Z-5 can hide the minor scratches/swirls but to remove deeper ones requires power buffing. I've also tried the Griot's Best of Show wax & while it is EZ to apply/remove, I haven't found it better than the Z-5 for hiding the swirls. Try using both & U'll find the best of both worlds!

GS4Will

MG,

thanks for the info, make perfect sense to me.

the $200 polisher on the griots site, is it as easy to use as it claims without damage to the paint? or should i just use the old fashioned way or hands-on-off method?

william

RON430

Hey Will,

The Porter Cable polisher is about the best amateur tool I have seen. California Car Cover Co. has it for 179.99 although I am not sure if Griot includes anything with theirs to make up the difference. The Griot polishes are the best I have found to work with it although if you have a basket case, paste polishing and rubbing compounds can be used. Just start with the least abrasive first and go slow. If you go through the paint it ruins your whole day. I am not posting a negative on the Zaino products but I don't know if I am that sold on them yet. I have used the whole series on my GS and they do give good results but they are a fair amount of work too. MG has black and I have the 2K1 very dark blue and obviously either one of those colors is difficult to get looking good. I only polished my hood a bit to get rid of some of the orange peel and the results with the Zaino are pretty good although MG and I have compared notes and I don't think the Zaino gets as "hard" as a good carnauba and I don't think water quite jumps off it like it does off a good carnauba. Going to see how it does over the next few months, should be getting some wet weather, we'll see how the Zaino lasts. There are a lot of sites now for detailing stuff, might want to try Goodspeed Motoring. The expensive Zymol glazes are also pretty good but you have to put on several coats of Zymol because very little stays on with a normal application.

So far pretty sold on the microfiber polishing cloths from almost anyone. They make getting the "haze" off without putting new marks in a pretty simple matter. For removing "haze" whether Zaino or conventional wax, the microfiber just seems like it is the way to go. Final note, I notice that Home Depot says they will special order tools in a big sign now (finishing off a garage for the last six weeks seems like I have spent more time in HD than anywhere else) and they cary Porter Cable. Might want to see if they can get it for you.

Juan C. Cos

Hey WIll, how are you buddy? I have only tried Griott's (of the two you asked), and have these comments:
1. Clay & fast shine + best of show wax didn't give my any better results on my gold car over Zymol, and Zymol took me less than half the time. Best of show wax has no cleaning agents, so it's useless if you don't clay the whole car first.
2. The Fine hand polish is great for defects the regular cleaner wax won't remove, and it's the most aggressive polish you can use without worry of damaging the clear coat. I would pass on polishes 1,2,&3, unless they're the last resort.
3. I really like its leather conditioner, thick blue latex gloves, glass, plastic & chrome polishes, polypropylene glass wipes/window cleaner, and other tools I can't find anywhere else. A lot of things they carry I found them (identical) in other places at least 25% cheaper, like the low-profile ramps (Pepboys), so shop around first.
Try different products on all your detail needs, and most likely you'll find the best results in each category from different brands.
Take care!

Mean Gene

William - IMO; yes, the Porter Cable random orbital buffer IS worth the money! Don't know what California Car Co. includes with their P/C buffer but Griot's comes in a hard-sided carrying case ( & not much else ). Just go to http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog....2060&SKU=10625 & take a peak. I've done plenty of bodywork in my days & I feel the P/C IS the best buffer for an untrained enthusiast. Doing it by hand is not only tiring but it's hard to keep an even pressure on things so it looks like U may have missed some spots. However, I DO small touch up areas by hand, especially the little flat area at the top of the hood ( by the washer nozzles ) that seems to collect water spots!! Would've been nice to have Lexus design a hood w/o that flat spot. I can't give ya any more feedback concerning the durability of Zaino because I apply at least one coat of either Z-5 or Z-3 every other weekend. Heard some Members say it lasts 2 months or longer but can't verify that claim. Just wait on Ron's input.
Juan - I agree that Zymol goes on/off easy but I tried it & found that even multiple coats only lasted about 2 weeks & my car's stored indoors at night. Great shine though! Not so sure that Griot's Fine Hand Polish isn't the same as the Polish 3 ( which is supposedly designed for machine application )? The Polish 3 removed hazing & swirls that even Meguiars Polish wouldn't. I agree that the Griot's window cleaning supplies are the finest I've run across, especially the lint free wipes! I know that the Lexus black isn't clear coated & that's verified by the small amount of black coloring on the buffing pad but I figure there's plenty of paint left to last a few more years. By then I'll need another paint job because of the chips caused by our bad Louisiana roads!!

babyGS3

Gene...

It's been 6 months since I've applied the last coat on my dark green MB C280. The Zaino hasnt faded... still as shiny as it was when I first waxed it. The GS is also very shiny too (with 8 coats of zaino it better be shiny!!!) ehheh.. I wash my cars once a day because lately, we've been having weird weather: one hour it's monsoon rains and the next hour it's 100 degree baking sun temperatures.. then it alternates throughout the day. can you say that I'm very **** about my cars??? hehe
ei by the way G-man, thanks for saving me again from spending unnecessary money with that alarm shop here...

~manny

D-MAN63

Will ! Zaino is the way to go ! Before this, I was using Meguiars, Zymol, Mothers etc.. Zaino is only alot of work the first time you use it because you have to do Z1, Z2, then Z5, Z6 etc... after that just maintain it with the Z7 carwash and the Z6 gloss enhancer and thats it ! Then once in awhile when you see the shine fading you can just use the Z2 polisher again. Another thing thats excellant is the tire primer! When I use other tire shiners I always get crap dirt on my bottom part of my car because the shiner was made of oil, now my car doesn't get dirty until a few weeks later !

GS4Will

Gentlemen,

i thank you all so much for the valuable input; guess i have some shopping to do. my lady thought i bond too much w/my car; she has not seen anything yet.

juan,

how are you my friend? just read your transmission fliud posts, wish i was there to see you do all these mainteanace so i can learn something more.

MG,

so the lex blk is not clear coated? does this mean that for a blk GS owner, he should get non-clear coat application for all his polish/wax need?

also do you use the pc orbital buffer for all you polish/wax need? or use it just for one, but not the other?
side note: can you tell me again what is the right weight of MOBIL 1 i should use for LA?

Ron,
hope you are enjoying the bilstein ride. i like to go to HD too. will try to get the lowest possible price on the PC orbital buffer.

d-man,

so you like the zaino heh?

manny,

you wash you car everyday? and i thought i was crazy?

thanks again guys.

william

Mean Gene

Will - I use products designed for the non-cleared paints because they usually contain ingredients that help protect & preserve the paint. In the case of Zaino, the Z-3 is for the non-cleared paint jobs but Sal Zaino said that his Z-2 ( for clear coated ) would work almost as well - I had ordered the Z-2 before I discovered that the Lexus black wasn't clear coated. As far as the buffer goes, I use it only for the polishing compound as Sal says his products were designed for hand applications. It's OK to use the buffer for Zaino but the stuff goes on/off so easily, it's not worth the effort, IMO. Just watch out for Manny - he puts 8 coats of Z-2 on his ryde & then his Dad follows up with another coat! U'd think the weight of all that Zaino would slow the car down!!??:eek: For Mobil 1 users in Cali, I'd go with the 10W-30 instead of the 5W-30. I don't think ya'll get cold enough over there to need the extra pumpability the lower viscosity of the 5 weight offers. But if U could catch it on sale, the 5W-30 would be fine. Don't think I'd use the 15W-50 though - the clearances on most modern cars R so tight that a 50 weight oil ( at the upper end of the viscosity spectrum ) isn't necessary & I think Lexus recommends 10W-30 anyway. I run the 10W-30 over here in Louisiana & our annual temperature extremes range from right at freezing ( or slightly below ) during winter to in excess of 100 for most of the summer. Reckon I don't need to worry about thick oil in the morning, huh!

babyGS3

eeeeheheeeee hahaha.. ya... I'm the wicked waxer... !!!

RON430

Will - Have to restrain the comments about the Bilsteins. I am a real believer and they have really helped. Developed a strange noise out of the back and took it back to the installer. They did a quick look and said that it looked like the stock springs were not seating correctly on the bilstein perches. They say they can fix it so it goes back in on the 11th. Still hasn't dimmed my enthusiasm for the bilsteins, what a difference shocks can make.

Not trying to be the only one with reservations about Zaino. Another product I am a big believer in is RainX. Probably everyone has experience with it. Have you ever noticed that with RainX it is a little more difficult to wash the windows? Seems like the cleaner doesn't want to either totally run off or dry easily with a towel. Well, that is my same comment about Zaino. With a good carnauba you don't really have to dry your car. If you have soft water, it just totally runs off. My Zaino has to be dried and it is a little touchy to get it dried and not spotted in my experience. I have about five coats on and definitely don't put another coat on a week. Maybe I need to put more on. It definitely is a nice system and not only can hide minor swirl marks but does give a very nice shine. Don't know how well it works but the Zaino leather treatment really seems like a nice product also. The PC polisher is about the best I have seen for the amateur, like MG says. Too easy to really bugger things up with powered polishers. Calcarcover has the right unit, pretty sure the metal carrying case is PC issue so it should be the same as Griot. Haven't used it for anything else. I know Griot says you can use it to apply and remove wax haze but haven't tried that yet. If I go back to conventional wax, I may give it a try for removal. Never had much problem putting wax on.

GS4Will

hey Ron,

i hope the noise is as the installer said. have not had a problem with them in the past 2 years. let me know.

never spend the kind of high price for car care products. so kind of have high expectation for the zainos/griots. rain-x is very good, imo; esp for the reasonable price and the result you get. also never do any "claying" on the car before. feel kind of strange to rub a bar all over the car. may be i will try a small area first.

thanks for the idea of calling home depot. i think not all depot have the same prices. or, one of them gave me wrong quote on the PC polisher(#7336). the 1st depot told me $225,so i ask for their lowest price guarantee. the assist mgr said not on special order tool. so i picked up the tel and call another depot. they call me back and told me $160, and i was more than happy to take it.

for the buffing/polishing pads, where could i get them behides Griots? to me, a 10" orange/red sponge pad really does not worth $12. or is it as technologically advanced as Griots claimed?

appreciate for anyone's input.

william

RON430

will - not too sure that is the correct part number on the PC polisher. I'll look tonight just to double check, MG are you here? MG posted the number earlier on another thread. I think it might be 7424 but I will check. I don't think there is anything magical about the Griot foam pads. I have a selection of the Griot ones so I am not buying any more but I have seen them quite a few places now. They are just a foam pad with the Velcro on the back to attach to the polisher, the orange ones are a bit firmer than the white ones. In the land of auto finishes and protectants, you either cut the paint or you try to fill things in. The polisher is actually cutting the paint. You start cutting and leaving what look like scratches. As you move to finer compounds the scratches get finer and finer until you can't see them and the surface just looks like a sheet of polished glass. A concours detailer would then want to get some protectant on the paint to slow down or eliminate things like oxidation. So they start waxing. My take is that the Zaino is trying to bridge both by having a liquid that will fill in swirl marks and do some leveling. If you start with a good polished surface, like I would guess MG and I are doing, the filling is a little less important. The Zaino does put on a pretty good shine but I have tried to relate some of the other things I have seen hopefully without starting any flaming about Zaino, it does have some good qualities.

Claying is just a process to remove contaminants that are embedded in the paint (or clearcoat). The clay is fairly sticky so you keep some lubricant (soapy water) on the surface and it will pick up more embedded particles. You want to make sure you have as many potential particles off as you can as they tend to get caught up in your polishing or waxing material and just promote scratches. I think claying is OK but I am not sure if I get all that excited about it. Get the surface polished well and then protect it. The claying would remove things that are stuck in the paint and won't come off with just washing. Don't know for sure but I would be surprised if the concours guys are using Zaino. Part of it is inertia but I think they are more comfortable with carnauba, a lot of them mix up their own blends. Zaino probably gives the average guy a better chance of getting a good result but the "pros" probably feel safer with what they know. I just don't know how to put it, I mentioned to MG that I felt that the Zaino didn't get as "hard" as carnauba and he seemed to agree. My Cal Car Duster can leave traces in the Zaino but doesn't seem to in Zymol. Just need some more experiments if I can figure out which ones to run.

Not too worried about the bilsteins. Custom Alignment is definitely pricey but they are very good. They should be able to take care of it. Joe, the owner, didn't seem too overwhelmed by it. He said their current big problem is coilovers on Boxters. There is a clunk that no one seems to be able to figure out how to get rid of, smacks of the stock bump stop problem on the GS with the L tuned springs. We'll see on the eleventh. Final bit of advice, when you pop for all the detailing stuff get a bunch of polishing cloths, microfiber or cloth. It is amazing how if you trap something in there you just start re-scratching things. I disagree a little bit with Zaino about getting larger ones, they can be tough to handle, just get a bunch of good smaller ones.

GS4Will

Ron,

thanks for the word of advice. please do verify the PC model# for you. if i recall correctly, i wrote the model #7336 from either you or MG from long ago. let me know if this is correct.

thank you.

william