PC 7424...first experiance and not impressed
06-14-07 | 08:49 AM
#16
Lexus Champion
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,019
Likes: 8
From: Simi Valley ,CA
Lexkost; Sorry but I'm a little confused here but isn't a swirl remover and polish the same exact thing?
To nighthawk;
I noticed the PC takes several passes in order to get "most" swirls removed..On average, I would say 3 passes on each small section to remove most, if not all, of the swirls...
Did you inspect each panel under direct spotlight or sunlight after each pass? Otherwise, the swirls can be very stubborn and you can't see it unless you are directly under a beam of light...
You might also consider some paint are much harder than others..For example BMW paint tends to be one of the hardest clearcoats, it might be more ideal to work with a beefer rotary buffer with more abrasive cutting pad than a weaker PC..Perhaps a rotary might meet your standards, as it breaks down polish and cuts into the paint a lot faster than a PC and creates a more shine than a PC will...However, it takes some practice to work a rotary as it is used slightly differently than a PC..With the correct techniques the rotary gives excellent results..
Claying is vital to your overall outcome as well..For myself, I always take my time (about 1 & 1/2 hour) to clay each panel of the car throughly and to use plenty of QD (Megs Final Inspection #34) lube during claying stage..the wipe down with a clean MF towel every panel clean afterwards..As we know, claying helps even out the surface from contaminants and is also very important for machine polish as it evens out the surface..This makes swirl removal/polishing with PC easiler since the surface is leveled and free of foreign debris...Leaving your paint with a greater amount of depth (shine) after you are done...
I hope this helped..
As others have mentioned, don't give up so easily...There is a reason why people pay hundreds to get their car detailed..The process of learning can be extensive, you can't just expect great results from your first try...You can buy all the "top notch" supplies but if you don't get the correct technique the final product will not exactly be "top notch" itself...It's mostly in the technique...
One thing I've learned about detailling is that it takes a lot of time and patience..Stick with it and it will be rewarding at the end..
To nighthawk;
I noticed the PC takes several passes in order to get "most" swirls removed..On average, I would say 3 passes on each small section to remove most, if not all, of the swirls...
Did you inspect each panel under direct spotlight or sunlight after each pass? Otherwise, the swirls can be very stubborn and you can't see it unless you are directly under a beam of light...
You might also consider some paint are much harder than others..For example BMW paint tends to be one of the hardest clearcoats, it might be more ideal to work with a beefer rotary buffer with more abrasive cutting pad than a weaker PC..Perhaps a rotary might meet your standards, as it breaks down polish and cuts into the paint a lot faster than a PC and creates a more shine than a PC will...However, it takes some practice to work a rotary as it is used slightly differently than a PC..With the correct techniques the rotary gives excellent results..
Claying is vital to your overall outcome as well..For myself, I always take my time (about 1 & 1/2 hour) to clay each panel of the car throughly and to use plenty of QD (Megs Final Inspection #34) lube during claying stage..the wipe down with a clean MF towel every panel clean afterwards..As we know, claying helps even out the surface from contaminants and is also very important for machine polish as it evens out the surface..This makes swirl removal/polishing with PC easiler since the surface is leveled and free of foreign debris...Leaving your paint with a greater amount of depth (shine) after you are done...
I hope this helped..
As others have mentioned, don't give up so easily...There is a reason why people pay hundreds to get their car detailed..The process of learning can be extensive, you can't just expect great results from your first try...You can buy all the "top notch" supplies but if you don't get the correct technique the final product will not exactly be "top notch" itself...It's mostly in the technique...
One thing I've learned about detailling is that it takes a lot of time and patience..Stick with it and it will be rewarding at the end..
He should have used Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover after Pinnacle #2 Fine Swirl Remover.That is the step he missed.
06-14-07 | 10:28 PM
#17
Actually, Fine Swirl Remover is the #1, while Advanced is the #2. You usually don't HAVE to use #1, unless your coming down from #3, it might just improve results only slightly.
You have to take time with the PC. You need to work it in for 3-5 minutes at least per panel with adequate pressure. That's the most common mistake and the most common advice given to new users. You can try different polish products, I like the XMT line from Pinnacle the best as for polishes.
Pinnacle has a new product, called the XMT 360. It would polish with the power of XMT 1 and apply a bit of a sealant/glaze to the finish, which lets you quickly move onto a last step product, such as a wax.
You can also use the PC too apply waxes as well, which saves a LOT of time in my experiences. The PC can take out actual light scratches as well, and many use it on windows too. I'd say the PC is a great product. Play around with it some more and see your results.
You have to take time with the PC. You need to work it in for 3-5 minutes at least per panel with adequate pressure. That's the most common mistake and the most common advice given to new users. You can try different polish products, I like the XMT line from Pinnacle the best as for polishes.
Pinnacle has a new product, called the XMT 360. It would polish with the power of XMT 1 and apply a bit of a sealant/glaze to the finish, which lets you quickly move onto a last step product, such as a wax.
You can also use the PC too apply waxes as well, which saves a LOT of time in my experiences. The PC can take out actual light scratches as well, and many use it on windows too. I'd say the PC is a great product. Play around with it some more and see your results.
06-15-07 | 02:40 PM
#18
Lead Lap
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 456
Likes: 2
From: CA
You don't need a lot of pressure when using the PC - actually, doing so (depending on pad) is one way to damage your paint. You need no more pressure than the amount required to maintain the polisher's position in the area you're working.
What you do need is enough time (and speed on the PC) to break down the polish. More on that in a sec. First, there's some great advice above in this thread. It's good to start with the least aggressive pad/polish combo, and work your way up as needed. Toyota/Lexus clearcoats are pretty hard. This means that when you do have swirls, marring, & light scratches, it'll take a bit of effort to get them out. The most common mistake when polishing with the PC is not completely breaking down the polish. This is caused by one or two problems - too much product and/or not enough time and/or PC speed working it in. What makes this more difficult is that each polish is different. Some break down lickety split while others seem to take forever. Bottom line...the mantra: polish must break down to be effective.
This will become intuitive to you the more you use the PC. I still remember the first time I used it - it took me forever to make my way around my old truck. Once you get down the 'art' of managing the power cable, applying product, wiping residue, yada yada...it'll become a much faster process.
For what it's worth, last month I detailed my Dad's '05 black Avalon. Lots of swirls in that thing. I was amazed that I had to use an aggressive pad & product combo to remove them. Ultimately I went to a yellow LC pad and Poorboy's SSR3 polish, which I then followed with an orange pad and Menzerna FPII. The results were rewarding, all the more so because of the effort.
In your case you may need to step up to a more aggressive product, but definitely experiment with working in the product a bit longer, and at max speed on the PC. FWIW I generally mist the pad with QD, apply a small amount of product in three spots on the pad, spread it in a 2x2 area while the machine is off, then start working it in @ '3' for maybe 15 seconds, and then max it out. Depending on the polish, it'll sit at max speed anywhere from 30 - 180 seconds.
Good luck....and stick with it!
What you do need is enough time (and speed on the PC) to break down the polish. More on that in a sec. First, there's some great advice above in this thread. It's good to start with the least aggressive pad/polish combo, and work your way up as needed. Toyota/Lexus clearcoats are pretty hard. This means that when you do have swirls, marring, & light scratches, it'll take a bit of effort to get them out. The most common mistake when polishing with the PC is not completely breaking down the polish. This is caused by one or two problems - too much product and/or not enough time and/or PC speed working it in. What makes this more difficult is that each polish is different. Some break down lickety split while others seem to take forever. Bottom line...the mantra: polish must break down to be effective.
This will become intuitive to you the more you use the PC. I still remember the first time I used it - it took me forever to make my way around my old truck. Once you get down the 'art' of managing the power cable, applying product, wiping residue, yada yada...it'll become a much faster process.
For what it's worth, last month I detailed my Dad's '05 black Avalon. Lots of swirls in that thing. I was amazed that I had to use an aggressive pad & product combo to remove them. Ultimately I went to a yellow LC pad and Poorboy's SSR3 polish, which I then followed with an orange pad and Menzerna FPII. The results were rewarding, all the more so because of the effort.
In your case you may need to step up to a more aggressive product, but definitely experiment with working in the product a bit longer, and at max speed on the PC. FWIW I generally mist the pad with QD, apply a small amount of product in three spots on the pad, spread it in a 2x2 area while the machine is off, then start working it in @ '3' for maybe 15 seconds, and then max it out. Depending on the polish, it'll sit at max speed anywhere from 30 - 180 seconds.
Good luck....and stick with it!
06-18-07 | 09:59 AM
#19
Just did my car for the first time as well, and I wasn't very happy... After reading this post though, i'm gonna stick with it and work on my techniques. autogeek.net is a pretty good site to get tips from and they have a vid as well if anyone wants to give that a shot.
06-18-07 | 10:53 AM
#20
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,283
Likes: 59
From: FL
06-18-07 | 11:03 AM
#21
Lead Lap
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 456
Likes: 2
From: CA
Aren't those videos just awesome? That's Charles - a buddy of mine who's been my biggest detailing mentor - doing the work on his really nice Yukon. If anyone is interested, his website can be found here:
http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/
http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/
06-24-07 | 09:51 AM
#22
I have a Black Onyx Lexus GS430 and it's been neglected for a couple of years. I finally got around to trying to clean it up, so I picked up a PC and some pads/polishes. Overall, I was very happy with my initial results...except for the hood/front bumper. I don't know exactly what these spots are, but the only thing I can think of is that they were caused by bugs since its isolated to the front area of the car.
Here's a picture
I'm just looking for suggestions on how to proceed from here, hoping it can be corrected.
Here's a picture
I'm just looking for suggestions on how to proceed from here, hoping it can be corrected.
Last edited by Tranman; 06-24-07 at 10:32 AM.
06-24-07 | 10:42 AM
#24
The finish feels nice and smooth...almost soft (if you know what I mean). I think the marks might be etched into the clearcoat. I ended up picking up one of those PC kits from autopia. Came with Sonor pads and I had gotten Sonor polishes. I didn't know what to get...so I thought it would just be easier to try those out. Anyways, I'm thinking that I should be using something with more aggression with a cutting pad?
06-24-07 | 02:17 PM
#25
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,283
Likes: 59
From: FL
THis look could have several causes. Can you get a closer photo? Are these pits in the paint? Use a jewelers loop to see. How old is your 430?
Some possibilities...
Do you do a lot of freeway/highway driving? That photo looks a lot like small sand/stone chips. This occurs a lot if you tailgate (i.e. rush hour traffic) in the winter/early spring there is a lot of sand & salt used on the highways.
Another cause could be solvent pop if you had that hood repainted.
Finally it could be acid rain etching.
From the photo, if these are pits or chips, I doubt you will be able to polish them out.
Some possibilities...
Do you do a lot of freeway/highway driving? That photo looks a lot like small sand/stone chips. This occurs a lot if you tailgate (i.e. rush hour traffic) in the winter/early spring there is a lot of sand & salt used on the highways.
Another cause could be solvent pop if you had that hood repainted.
Finally it could be acid rain etching.
From the photo, if these are pits or chips, I doubt you will be able to polish them out.
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