How to paint
12-06-07, 06:01 AM
#1
How to paint
I was hoping someone could walk me through in how to paint and have it look like a pro.... Not trying to paint my whole car or anything just small items. Just would like some solid information on things needed, how to prep, steps on the painting process etc.
I'm not sure if anyone would recommend it, but being that its sold at walmart, probably not, but there's a pressurized paint gun at walmart. I'm not trying to paint anything big. Just small stuff like a grill, maybe repaint my rear canards.
If anyone has time on their hands and may be bored at work like me to write up a brief one I would appreciate it.I always wanted to learn
I'm not sure if anyone would recommend it, but being that its sold at walmart, probably not, but there's a pressurized paint gun at walmart. I'm not trying to paint anything big. Just small stuff like a grill, maybe repaint my rear canards.
If anyone has time on their hands and may be bored at work like me to write up a brief one I would appreciate it.I always wanted to learn
12-06-07, 11:58 AM
#2
What color is your car? Because for the most part, a black car is probably the only color you can pull off doing yourself and have not to worry about it. If it was any other color, especially if it's a pearl color, it will be close to impossible to find a match unless you get the paint directly from the dealership; even then the pearl colors are still hard to match perfectly.
I have a black IS250 and painted my grill bezel black, it's not perfectly matched but I think works and blends in well, not just because it's black but also because its part of the grill so it has some room to be different. I only used the spray paint for cars as well. It's as easy as sanding, primer, sanding, primer, black and clear coat. Just put 3-4 coats of each and give each time to dry properly, then it should be good to go.
Sorry I can't provide much more help than that.
I have a black IS250 and painted my grill bezel black, it's not perfectly matched but I think works and blends in well, not just because it's black but also because its part of the grill so it has some room to be different. I only used the spray paint for cars as well. It's as easy as sanding, primer, sanding, primer, black and clear coat. Just put 3-4 coats of each and give each time to dry properly, then it should be good to go.
Sorry I can't provide much more help than that.
12-06-07, 12:31 PM
#3
What color is your car? Because for the most part, a black car is probably the only color you can pull off doing yourself and have not to worry about it. If it was any other color, especially if it's a pearl color, it will be close to impossible to find a match unless you get the paint directly from the dealership; even then the pearl colors are still hard to match perfectly.
I have a black IS250 and painted my grill bezel black, it's not perfectly matched but I think works and blends in well, not just because it's black but also because its part of the grill so it has some room to be different. I only used the spray paint for cars as well. It's as easy as sanding, primer, sanding, primer, black and clear coat. Just put 3-4 coats of each and give each time to dry properly, then it should be good to go.
Sorry I can't provide much more help than that.
I have a black IS250 and painted my grill bezel black, it's not perfectly matched but I think works and blends in well, not just because it's black but also because its part of the grill so it has some room to be different. I only used the spray paint for cars as well. It's as easy as sanding, primer, sanding, primer, black and clear coat. Just put 3-4 coats of each and give each time to dry properly, then it should be good to go.
Sorry I can't provide much more help than that.
12-09-07, 07:04 PM
#7
Here are the basics, you really don't want to skip a step;
Degrease 3x. Overkill on degreasing is key. Wash the part(s) in dish detergent, then use something like DuPont Prepsol or equivalent. Go over it at least 2 or 3 times with a rag or towel that HAS NOT been used for anything else, which might contaminate it. You can also use an ammonia based window cleaner and even Comet cleanser prior to spraying primer or adhesion promoter.
If you have a bare metal part and need to prime, use an epoxy (2k) primer, avoid lacquer primer because it can and does shrink over time.
On plastic parts, you should use an adhesion promoter on unprimed urethane /plastic parts. Some go right to paint after that (it works) but adding a urethane parts primer after the adhesion promoter is good. This specific primer is needed as it has better flex additives vs metal primers generally. You can also buy a high build primer in the event you need to fill tiny imperfections, then block it down flat.
DON'T spray an adhesion promoter over aftermarket PRIMED parts. There are some issues in doing this, so just go right to paint if you have an already primered part(s).
In any case, scuff the primer with 400-600 grit paper prior to painting, or use a red Scotch-Brite pad for scuffing paint.
Degrease AGAIN prior to painting, and use a tack cloth seconds before spraying to remove dust and dirt.
Spray a ghost coat (light, no sheen) first, then a second medium coat, and a final wet coat, allowing each to "flash" off (dry according to the paint's instructions between coats) Do not rush the coats, or the chances of sags and runs becomes greater, as well as other issues like solvent popping (paint skins over before the solvents evaporate out of it) this appears as a milky white explosion of micro bubbles. If you use base clear, spray the base till opacity/ hiding is achieved, but don't spray too many coats. 2 -3 is fine. Good lighting is ESSENTIAL.
If you are spraying a mixed paint or base/ clear, use the proper reducer for the ambient temperature, or solvent popping becomes a key issue.
If using clear coat, bear in mind that more coats is NOT a good thing UNLESS you will be color sanding a few off. Too many coats of clear can cause many issues, such as crazing/checking (micro cracking) and a larger cause of sags and runs.
There are many things needed to know about equipment and such; gun types and the kind of compressors needed for each, moisture traps, and on and on, but I thought I'd stick to basics here, for now.
That's it in a nutshell, but if there are any more tips I've forgotten, hopefully someone else can chime in.
Good luck!
Degrease 3x. Overkill on degreasing is key. Wash the part(s) in dish detergent, then use something like DuPont Prepsol or equivalent. Go over it at least 2 or 3 times with a rag or towel that HAS NOT been used for anything else, which might contaminate it. You can also use an ammonia based window cleaner and even Comet cleanser prior to spraying primer or adhesion promoter.
If you have a bare metal part and need to prime, use an epoxy (2k) primer, avoid lacquer primer because it can and does shrink over time.
On plastic parts, you should use an adhesion promoter on unprimed urethane /plastic parts. Some go right to paint after that (it works) but adding a urethane parts primer after the adhesion promoter is good. This specific primer is needed as it has better flex additives vs metal primers generally. You can also buy a high build primer in the event you need to fill tiny imperfections, then block it down flat.
DON'T spray an adhesion promoter over aftermarket PRIMED parts. There are some issues in doing this, so just go right to paint if you have an already primered part(s).
In any case, scuff the primer with 400-600 grit paper prior to painting, or use a red Scotch-Brite pad for scuffing paint.
Degrease AGAIN prior to painting, and use a tack cloth seconds before spraying to remove dust and dirt.
Spray a ghost coat (light, no sheen) first, then a second medium coat, and a final wet coat, allowing each to "flash" off (dry according to the paint's instructions between coats) Do not rush the coats, or the chances of sags and runs becomes greater, as well as other issues like solvent popping (paint skins over before the solvents evaporate out of it) this appears as a milky white explosion of micro bubbles. If you use base clear, spray the base till opacity/ hiding is achieved, but don't spray too many coats. 2 -3 is fine. Good lighting is ESSENTIAL.
If you are spraying a mixed paint or base/ clear, use the proper reducer for the ambient temperature, or solvent popping becomes a key issue.
If using clear coat, bear in mind that more coats is NOT a good thing UNLESS you will be color sanding a few off. Too many coats of clear can cause many issues, such as crazing/checking (micro cracking) and a larger cause of sags and runs.
There are many things needed to know about equipment and such; gun types and the kind of compressors needed for each, moisture traps, and on and on, but I thought I'd stick to basics here, for now.
That's it in a nutshell, but if there are any more tips I've forgotten, hopefully someone else can chime in.
Good luck!
Last edited by Guitarman; 12-09-07 at 07:10 PM.
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12-09-07, 07:44 PM
#8
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Everything Guitarman said is right on the money.
Key rule of thumb when priming/painting is to always keep your spray gun/spray can moving when painting. No stopping the movement of your arm while painting.
The closer you are to whatever you are painting, the faster you have to move your gun. The farther away, the slower you move your gun. But keep in mind that if you are too far away, you are apt to get alot of orange peel effect in the paint or primer. A good rule of thumb is keep the gun/can a forearms length from the object you are painting.
It's always a good idea to have a flat panel, preferably 4'x4' to practice your spray pattern on before going to paint your project. This allows you to adjust your fan/volume control, if using a spray gun, if needed. It will also tell you if your tip on the spray can is clear of debris if using this method.
If you can, wet down the surrounding area with a light mist. This will help knock down any dust that might get kicked up while painting. Don't forget ventilation. A small fan and a respirator help tons. Have the fan blowing away from your project so that if draws the overspray away from the painted surfaces.
There is a lot more, but that should get you thinking. And remember, you are turning a liquid into a solid, use care and patience.
Key rule of thumb when priming/painting is to always keep your spray gun/spray can moving when painting. No stopping the movement of your arm while painting.
The closer you are to whatever you are painting, the faster you have to move your gun. The farther away, the slower you move your gun. But keep in mind that if you are too far away, you are apt to get alot of orange peel effect in the paint or primer. A good rule of thumb is keep the gun/can a forearms length from the object you are painting.
It's always a good idea to have a flat panel, preferably 4'x4' to practice your spray pattern on before going to paint your project. This allows you to adjust your fan/volume control, if using a spray gun, if needed. It will also tell you if your tip on the spray can is clear of debris if using this method.
If you can, wet down the surrounding area with a light mist. This will help knock down any dust that might get kicked up while painting. Don't forget ventilation. A small fan and a respirator help tons. Have the fan blowing away from your project so that if draws the overspray away from the painted surfaces.
There is a lot more, but that should get you thinking. And remember, you are turning a liquid into a solid, use care and patience.
12-11-07, 12:34 AM
#9
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never ever paint over raw plastic...use a plastics cleaner to bring out the mold release agents, then plastic adhesion promoter, then sealer...if you paint right over raw plastic using just adhesion promoter, it will peel over time...you probably won't ever run into this problem since the only parts i've seen come raw are from nissan and honda...
don't scuff the primer (maybe you meant sand) with 400-600...chances are you're probably gonna paint small areas so buying a d/a isn't necessarry...just sand 600 wet for solids and metallics/pearls...800 if you want it really nice but not necessary...
blending, tinting, etc. is a whole book in itself but since you're only interested in painting small things like grills, i won't get into it...
and make sure you have a good tinted color...use a spray out card just in case...solids are a breeze...when you get into flops, that's where it gets tricky...if i'm not mistaken, the lexus black is just jet black (dupont 805)...no white or red in it like most other blacks...
anyways...here is a good writeup someone posted on another forum...more people added some good info in there...check it out...
http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/s...ght=clear+base
i'm vip-ucf btw...
12-11-07, 06:14 AM
#10
Appreciate the feedback Dennis,
I've always used 400 wet paper prior to basecoat or single stage, and never had any issues or visible sanding marks after paint, but I agree 600 is more forgiving. Whenever I need to reclear a panel. I use 800 to scuff the clear beyond the repair / blend area. I was told by a bodyshop owner once I could use 1000, but since 800 works well and isn't visible in the finish, I'd be a bit nervous going with 1000. I've used pressure washers on my paint at times, and I'd worry about going too fine. I think we all pretty much fall back on what works despite the variances in choices.
And you're right, I never had to paint a bare urethane part from Honda or Nissan, mostly all domestic stuff, and I've never had peeling issues on my own cars. But a primer definitely adds a degree of insurance, so I probably shouldn't have mentioned that here, because it likely serves to confuse.
I also wanted to mention that a sealer should be used over any old or new body work prior to painting, I learned the hard way that it's cheap insurance from bleed -through, alligatoring, and other chemical reactions between dissimilar paint and body filler products. If you agree let us know.
Any other gaps you can fill, or other aspects of the process, are appreciated!
Dan
I've always used 400 wet paper prior to basecoat or single stage, and never had any issues or visible sanding marks after paint, but I agree 600 is more forgiving. Whenever I need to reclear a panel. I use 800 to scuff the clear beyond the repair / blend area. I was told by a bodyshop owner once I could use 1000, but since 800 works well and isn't visible in the finish, I'd be a bit nervous going with 1000. I've used pressure washers on my paint at times, and I'd worry about going too fine. I think we all pretty much fall back on what works despite the variances in choices.
And you're right, I never had to paint a bare urethane part from Honda or Nissan, mostly all domestic stuff, and I've never had peeling issues on my own cars. But a primer definitely adds a degree of insurance, so I probably shouldn't have mentioned that here, because it likely serves to confuse.
I also wanted to mention that a sealer should be used over any old or new body work prior to painting, I learned the hard way that it's cheap insurance from bleed -through, alligatoring, and other chemical reactions between dissimilar paint and body filler products. If you agree let us know.
Any other gaps you can fill, or other aspects of the process, are appreciated!
Dan
12-11-07, 09:19 AM
#11
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Wow, 800 for blend areas...never heard of that...I use 1500...and then blonde scuff pad beyond my blend area to ensure proper adhesion...
You need to keep your blend area as fine as you can because when you color sand and buff, you don't want to burn the blend...you'll see an ugly egde where the new clear meets the old...the new clear need to be staggard...2 coats clear, 1 coat clear, light coat + blender, straight blender...
I hardly ever use sealer...old or new body work...on rare occasion I need to use sealer on previously painted acrylic and sometimes ill have door/bumpers bite but then ill stop right away and seal...but that's on a very rare occasion...sealer isn't needed for new body work because you're putting on roughly 3 coats of 2k urethane primer...the only other time ill use sealer is when a parts comes primer black and I need to paint a transparent color like red pearl or yellow...and even that, its always gonna be whiteother than that, I hardly touch sealer...
In my experience with painting, everyone will have their own system...as long as the principles are there, there's no right and wrong way...
You need to keep your blend area as fine as you can because when you color sand and buff, you don't want to burn the blend...you'll see an ugly egde where the new clear meets the old...the new clear need to be staggard...2 coats clear, 1 coat clear, light coat + blender, straight blender...
I hardly ever use sealer...old or new body work...on rare occasion I need to use sealer on previously painted acrylic and sometimes ill have door/bumpers bite but then ill stop right away and seal...but that's on a very rare occasion...sealer isn't needed for new body work because you're putting on roughly 3 coats of 2k urethane primer...the only other time ill use sealer is when a parts comes primer black and I need to paint a transparent color like red pearl or yellow...and even that, its always gonna be whiteother than that, I hardly touch sealer...
In my experience with painting, everyone will have their own system...as long as the principles are there, there's no right and wrong way...
Last edited by Dennis-C; 12-11-07 at 09:31 AM.
12-11-07, 04:38 PM
#13
Good info Dennis, I should mention the little blend work I've done was only with solid colors; white red and black, and then spot in the blend and reclear the whole panel.
Never tried to blend a metallic or pearl ( I hear pearl blends are tough?).
Good to have a paint/body guy in the forum, I've done it as a hobby for 20+ years, painted maybe 25 cars, but never did it for a living...you'll be a big help.
I actually sprayed a lot of lacquer early on, something that's not done much anymore as you know, but I love urethanes too. Progress is good
Give it a shot Batmobile, you have to start somewhere, and you've got all the help you need here.
Never tried to blend a metallic or pearl ( I hear pearl blends are tough?).
Good to have a paint/body guy in the forum, I've done it as a hobby for 20+ years, painted maybe 25 cars, but never did it for a living...you'll be a big help.
I actually sprayed a lot of lacquer early on, something that's not done much anymore as you know, but I love urethanes too. Progress is good
Give it a shot Batmobile, you have to start somewhere, and you've got all the help you need here.
12-11-07, 05:36 PM
#14
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another one, start spraying your gun/can before your stroke reaches the part you are painting, and dont let off until your stroke is off of the peice. Doing this makes sure you dont get excessive build up on edges and runs/ sags. Another thing, spray edges and backsides of peices first, let dry, then spray the rest. When spraying metallics or candys (transparent), it is important to have a very loose spray pattern. Dont just go left to right overlapping, or you will have a tiger stripe effect. Rather, spray far back as possible without getting orange peel, and spray up,down,left,right,diagonal. but make sure the paint if even. You need very good lighting when spraying. When I paint, I let the reflection of the bulbs ( I prefer flourecent tubes) show me how wet or dry my paint is, and it shows where you may have missed a spot of clear coat and need to touch up. The prep work is the MOST important part of any painting. The paint can be flawless, but still look crappy because of poor prepping.
12-11-07, 06:20 PM
#15
If you have to ask then your project will not come out looking good yet alone like a pro. Sorry, but the truth is the truth and reality must set it here. Some good info above though.
As stated, practice, practice, practice. But not on your car unless you care less about it's appearance.
Just because you have the steps in front of you does not mean painting works the same as putting together a model car with step A this and step B that. Technique and experience cannot be explained on a car forum and no amount of posts or threads will change that. But you have to start somewhere.
Best bet is to get extra paint and practice on some other items first. Get the gun dialed in (I only recommend gravity feed guns myself) and then your technique down. Take your time as screwing it all up only takes one mistake and then you have start all over with most likely additional work of removing the bad paint spray.
If you really want to go on a budget get this gun available at Harbor Freight. I have used it in a pinch and it gives decent results. Again, it is all about technique and experience.
Here is a link to the gun
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=43430
And a link to setting it up
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sum...Pspraygun.html
Check over at
Forums
http://www.autobody101.com/forums/
http://pub26.bravenet.com/forum/show...55445526&cpv=2
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sum...Pspraygun.html
Some faqs to read over
http://members.tripod.com/bobstory/faq.html
Past that it makes little sense more me to go over the steps as again every painter has a different style. Practice will teach you what works for you.
As stated, practice, practice, practice. But not on your car unless you care less about it's appearance.
Just because you have the steps in front of you does not mean painting works the same as putting together a model car with step A this and step B that. Technique and experience cannot be explained on a car forum and no amount of posts or threads will change that. But you have to start somewhere.
Best bet is to get extra paint and practice on some other items first. Get the gun dialed in (I only recommend gravity feed guns myself) and then your technique down. Take your time as screwing it all up only takes one mistake and then you have start all over with most likely additional work of removing the bad paint spray.
If you really want to go on a budget get this gun available at Harbor Freight. I have used it in a pinch and it gives decent results. Again, it is all about technique and experience.
Here is a link to the gun
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=43430
And a link to setting it up
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sum...Pspraygun.html
Check over at
Forums
http://www.autobody101.com/forums/
http://pub26.bravenet.com/forum/show...55445526&cpv=2
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sum...Pspraygun.html
Some faqs to read over
http://members.tripod.com/bobstory/faq.html
Past that it makes little sense more me to go over the steps as again every painter has a different style. Practice will teach you what works for you.
Last edited by Pearlpower; 12-11-07 at 06:23 PM.
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