"PC7424 won't remove swirl marks" some experts say
12-11-07, 04:44 AM
#1
Lead Lap
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"PC7424 won't remove swirl marks" some experts say
Anyone have any comments about Gary's affirmation that the PC7424 won't remove swirl marks??
This is what he said.
The Dual Action Porter Cable Buffer (DAPC)
This machine is a favorite among professional detailers and has become more popular with the weekend car buff. Any machine can be intimidating, fear sets in and all you can think of is the destruction it may cause. Well relax, take a break, and listen up, here are simple guidelines so you can overcome that fear and be on your way to working like a pro. First, you must understand that the term “dual action” represents the motion of this unit, the pad rotates and oscillates on its axis, which means it doesn’t build up heat like a high speed rotary buffer. (this means it’s safe for the novice) Porter Cable is a name brand, there are other companies that make them, but this one is most popular. The DAPC has a Velcro back for ease of pad changes, has a variable speed setting, and best of all can accommodate the new foam pads. I always suggest going to a body shop in your area and asking for a small body part to practice on, that way you don’t have to practice on your own car. Wash, clay, clean and prep the surface properly. The pads for this machine are available wherever you buy the machine, they come is different colors which represent either cutting/polishing of finishing. There is no universal color chart, so it’s best to stay with one company.
Since the motion of this machine doesn’t build up heat like a high speed, it is limited on the degree of correction it can produce. This machine is mostly intended for applying paint cleaners, polishes, and sealants (liquid wax as well). It won’t remove swirl marks, but it can “fill in” some to the degree that they are less noticeable. I don’t advise using any strong compounds, because this machine won’t create the amount of heat needed to break these chemicals down.
The DAPC has a speed setting of 1-9.
Here is what I would start off with -- Paint cleaner and a paint sealant. After the car is wash/clayed/dried, either use a yellow pad (cleaning) or a polishing pad. Make sure you never let the pad touch the ground. Have your micro fiber towel handy, an extension cord for the machine so you can move around with ease, and a wax foam applicator pad (for areas the machine won’t reach). Put a small amount of product on the buffer pad, lay the pad on the surface, turn the machine on and slowly move it around in all directions while it’s spinning. When you see the product start to disappear or dry out, stop the machine, put it down with the pad side up, wipe surface with a MF towel. Work in small sections at a time; make sure after you buff one section, follow up and wipe. In a short time, you will feel at ease using the DAPC. Don’t press too hard on the surface; let the machine do the work. Move around at a slow enough pace to work the product around. This is important, when you start to notice the pad getting dirty, stop, the pad needs to be cleaned. Doing a whole car and not cleaning your pads will only introduce problems in the finish. Take the pad off the machine, spray the pad with some all purpose cleaner, rinse well under medium hot water, scrub brush and squeeze. Put the pad back on the buffer, hold the buffer low to the ground (and away from the car) turn it on high for a few seconds. It will spin dry. Change the setting and go back to work. I use this machine for recent model cars with only minor or no surface defects. Since our Cruisers are no more than a few years old, this machine will work great. I only use it to apply product not remove. I prefer to use a MF towel to feel and inspect the surface as I’m going along. When you are applying sealant, change to a finishing pad. Apply a thin layer of sealant over the entire car with buffer, let it sit for around 20 minutes, then remove with a MF
Gary Perfect Auto Finish
This is what he said.
The Dual Action Porter Cable Buffer (DAPC)
This machine is a favorite among professional detailers and has become more popular with the weekend car buff. Any machine can be intimidating, fear sets in and all you can think of is the destruction it may cause. Well relax, take a break, and listen up, here are simple guidelines so you can overcome that fear and be on your way to working like a pro. First, you must understand that the term “dual action” represents the motion of this unit, the pad rotates and oscillates on its axis, which means it doesn’t build up heat like a high speed rotary buffer. (this means it’s safe for the novice) Porter Cable is a name brand, there are other companies that make them, but this one is most popular. The DAPC has a Velcro back for ease of pad changes, has a variable speed setting, and best of all can accommodate the new foam pads. I always suggest going to a body shop in your area and asking for a small body part to practice on, that way you don’t have to practice on your own car. Wash, clay, clean and prep the surface properly. The pads for this machine are available wherever you buy the machine, they come is different colors which represent either cutting/polishing of finishing. There is no universal color chart, so it’s best to stay with one company.
Since the motion of this machine doesn’t build up heat like a high speed, it is limited on the degree of correction it can produce. This machine is mostly intended for applying paint cleaners, polishes, and sealants (liquid wax as well). It won’t remove swirl marks, but it can “fill in” some to the degree that they are less noticeable. I don’t advise using any strong compounds, because this machine won’t create the amount of heat needed to break these chemicals down.
The DAPC has a speed setting of 1-9.
- For applying cleaners I would set between 4-5;
- for polishing 3-4; and for
- finishing 1-2
Here is what I would start off with -- Paint cleaner and a paint sealant. After the car is wash/clayed/dried, either use a yellow pad (cleaning) or a polishing pad. Make sure you never let the pad touch the ground. Have your micro fiber towel handy, an extension cord for the machine so you can move around with ease, and a wax foam applicator pad (for areas the machine won’t reach). Put a small amount of product on the buffer pad, lay the pad on the surface, turn the machine on and slowly move it around in all directions while it’s spinning. When you see the product start to disappear or dry out, stop the machine, put it down with the pad side up, wipe surface with a MF towel. Work in small sections at a time; make sure after you buff one section, follow up and wipe. In a short time, you will feel at ease using the DAPC. Don’t press too hard on the surface; let the machine do the work. Move around at a slow enough pace to work the product around. This is important, when you start to notice the pad getting dirty, stop, the pad needs to be cleaned. Doing a whole car and not cleaning your pads will only introduce problems in the finish. Take the pad off the machine, spray the pad with some all purpose cleaner, rinse well under medium hot water, scrub brush and squeeze. Put the pad back on the buffer, hold the buffer low to the ground (and away from the car) turn it on high for a few seconds. It will spin dry. Change the setting and go back to work. I use this machine for recent model cars with only minor or no surface defects. Since our Cruisers are no more than a few years old, this machine will work great. I only use it to apply product not remove. I prefer to use a MF towel to feel and inspect the surface as I’m going along. When you are applying sealant, change to a finishing pad. Apply a thin layer of sealant over the entire car with buffer, let it sit for around 20 minutes, then remove with a MF
Gary Perfect Auto Finish
12-11-07, 07:11 AM
#2
I've owned a PC for over 11 years now and have polished out hundreds of cars. The PC can and does indeed remove swirls. It is always the best practice to use the least aggressive approach to removing paint defects. In my experience the PC is my first choice. It is my most used and most useful tool. Unlike a rotary, it is perfectly safe. It will not burn through your clearcoat no matter how much pressure you apply. About the only way you can damage your paint with is PC is by dropping it on your hood.
Also, the PC has a speed setting of 1-6, not 1-9. Speeds 1-3 are used for applying wax and glazes with a soft finishing pad. Speeds 3-5 are used for paint cleaners and polishing out paint defects with a polishing pad. Speed 6 is not recommended as if you lift a pad with polish in it while it is running at that speed it might tear the pad off the backing.
Also, the PC has a speed setting of 1-6, not 1-9. Speeds 1-3 are used for applying wax and glazes with a soft finishing pad. Speeds 3-5 are used for paint cleaners and polishing out paint defects with a polishing pad. Speed 6 is not recommended as if you lift a pad with polish in it while it is running at that speed it might tear the pad off the backing.
Last edited by jfelbab; 12-11-07 at 07:17 AM.
12-12-07, 07:50 AM
#4
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There is a lot of information on PC vs. rotary on autopia dot com. What is said above does have some truth, the PC is limited in the amount of correction it can do. Depends on the type of paint, severity of defect, pad and polish you use and the amount of time you spend.
There are some polishers that are between a PC7424 and a rotary, such as the Flex. Again, lots of information by experts at the above site.
There are some polishers that are between a PC7424 and a rotary, such as the Flex. Again, lots of information by experts at the above site.
12-12-07, 09:07 AM
#5
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The PC will absolutely take out swirls with the correct pad and polish, I've used mine plenty enough to remove swirls. Now it's less effective than say a rotary but much safer in the hands of a weekend warrior.
12-12-07, 10:25 AM
#6
There is a lot of information on PC vs. rotary on autopia dot com. What is said above does have some truth, the PC is limited in the amount of correction it can do. Depends on the type of paint, severity of defect, pad and polish you use and the amount of time you spend.
There are some polishers that are between a PC7424 and a rotary, such as the Flex. Again, lots of information by experts at the above site.
There are some polishers that are between a PC7424 and a rotary, such as the Flex. Again, lots of information by experts at the above site.
12-12-07, 10:58 AM
#7
The PC, if used with the right pads and chemicals should remove all swirls. Might take a few passes more than a rotary tool, but it should remove them. My best combo when using an orbital is a Lake Country green or orange pad with Menzerna 106FF or Super Intensive Polish.
Assuming we're talking Lake Country pads, I wouldn't start with a yellow (heavy cutting) pad. As Jim mentioned, its always good practice to use the least aggressive approach and work up. Always start with a light polishing pad with less aggressive chemicals. Move up in chemicals (heavier polish, compound), then move up the pad chain (white, green orange, yellow).
Assuming we're talking Lake Country pads, I wouldn't start with a yellow (heavy cutting) pad. As Jim mentioned, its always good practice to use the least aggressive approach and work up. Always start with a light polishing pad with less aggressive chemicals. Move up in chemicals (heavier polish, compound), then move up the pad chain (white, green orange, yellow).
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12-12-07, 11:59 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
When you have some free time drop by my house and you can try it out along with the other products I talked to you about.....just bring some extra cash so we can send the Wives out shopping.
12-12-07, 09:49 PM
#10
12-15-07, 06:29 PM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
I have removed swirls on many vehicles with my PC. It doesn't "fill in" swirls - that doesn't even make sense. Some polishes do have fillers, which is practically worthless unless you're looking for a quick fix.
Polishing simply levels the clear cost until it is at the level of the deepest swirl. In most cases, very little clear needs to be removed to achieve this, but it's still some work. I never polish on less than speed 5-6, and some pressure is needed as well depending on the hardness of the clear. I see that Gary recommends letting the weight of the machine do the work - it works MUCH better, in my experience, to lean into it a bit (being careful not to bog it down).
Rotary buffers are faster, but much more dangerous. You must keep them moving to avoid burning the paint. When used correctly, they're second to none in correcting badly swirled finishes quickly. You will not burn your paint with a random orbital buffer unless you really really want to, and even then it would be a challenge.
Expect to spend a good day polishing to get paint swirl free. Sometimes it's necessary to finish with a less agressive polish and pad to get a perfect finish.
Polishing simply levels the clear cost until it is at the level of the deepest swirl. In most cases, very little clear needs to be removed to achieve this, but it's still some work. I never polish on less than speed 5-6, and some pressure is needed as well depending on the hardness of the clear. I see that Gary recommends letting the weight of the machine do the work - it works MUCH better, in my experience, to lean into it a bit (being careful not to bog it down).
Rotary buffers are faster, but much more dangerous. You must keep them moving to avoid burning the paint. When used correctly, they're second to none in correcting badly swirled finishes quickly. You will not burn your paint with a random orbital buffer unless you really really want to, and even then it would be a challenge.
Expect to spend a good day polishing to get paint swirl free. Sometimes it's necessary to finish with a less agressive polish and pad to get a perfect finish.
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