Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. You think I am still only like half way to its potential? I've worked hard on this for many hours two times now .. I'm just curious how close to 'the best I can get it to look' I am. How big of a difference would say adding in polish and say Zaino type of products using a Porter Cable be? Like twice as good? Just a bit better ?

Does my color make it harder to be 'in your face' eye catching? I'm pretty sure the neutrality of it does, and the mixture non fluid dark color -- solid, like Dark blue, Black, Red, and so on. Silver, white, etc are good looking cars, they are just hard to turn into 'mirrors' like a black car

tod071

Honestly, the real question is "Are YOU satisfied with the job that you've done?" If the answer is Yes, then you don't need to worry about what everyone else says. If the answer is "I still think it can look better", then you probably need to look into a little better products. High content carnauba waxes or paint cleansing lotions are just a couple of ideas to make it look better than it already is.

If I were to re-do it, I'd probably clay the entire car first. Then, use some Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish or P21S Paintwork Cleanser, followed by Swissvax Cleaner Fluid, then either P21S Wax or Swissvax Concorso. This would definitely give it depth and wetness. Nubas won't last long. They're purely made for beauty.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Well I ask the question because I am not the resident expert on car shine. Before this forum I thought waxing a car was as good as it got. Now I know if you use a buffer with polish's and so on and so forth it can get better and better.

Also I've heard alot about Zaino..

I do LIKE what I've done. It IS better than the Carnuba wax I put on last weekend. This is NXT 2.0. I also claybarred the entire car. So that helped alot I'm sure.

I do not have a PC, and I don't have the money at the current moment to buy one and all the accessories needed. I'm just asking for the future.

I don't know what it CAN look like, but I would like to think with layers of Zaino, and using a PC it just adds to the already good look.. understand?

Otherwise, I would have simply been oblivious, and the car wouldn't look as good as it does today. It would look like it did the first time I washed/waxed it. Which wasn't bad, just not nearly as smooth and as shiney. I think I know my own answer.. YES it can look better with more expensive products, and really products of a different nature combined. (Polishing and so on) -- Also using a high speed buffer does things the human hand/arm cannot.

I guess the real question I asked -- Is 'how much better' is it going to look.

If its a 10% thing.. then it is questionable whether it is worth the investment into the high dollar applications and tools needed to do the job. If it is a significantly better look -- Then it would be.

My car isn't black, so I can't compare with the majority of pictures on here.

The car has depth and 'wetness' as of now.. I've put far too many hours into it not too look good. It is all about learning and really getting the 'top notch' look out of the paint. People talk about every Zaino application being SO much more impressive. It makes me wonder.

As for re-claying the car. Is this necessary? If I just spent 4+ hours claying the car, it is 100% clean -- What would re-claying it do? Simply to remove the current NXT? I would think certain wash chemicals would be far easier to use than spending another 4 hours claying the car again. Please explain.

jfelbab

Most of the good looks come from the polishing stage. The wax adds about 10-15% to the look. Consider the wax as a product to seal in and protect the great look you have achieved through polishing.

"The only way you will know what products will look like on your car is to experiment. No matter who claims that wax A is better than wax B, you can find someone else who says the opposite is true. The look is really subjective. We all see things slightly differently. What is important is how it looks to you.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Ok let me put it this way --

Is it worth it unanimously to obtain a PC, with Zaino/Polish ? Over using say NXT 2.0 by hand?

Is it hands down much better,.. or still' subjective' ? IE: A Rotary buffer with Zaino and polish is still only slightly different than using a Clay bar and NXT by hand ?

If there is so much the beauty is in the eye of the beholder on this detailing, then that tells me that I wouldn't notice any difference in going with a Buffer with expensive chemicals I've mentioned over just waxing it by hand.

This sound about right?

tod071

If you take Jim's statement about the looks coming from the polishing stage (of which I agree), then getting a PC and the right products would give you better results. I don't agree that Zaino will give you any added depth or gloss. Zaino will enhance anything underneath it. Meaning, if you polish your paint perfectly, it'll enhance the perfection. if you leave any marring, swirls, etc, Zaino will enhance that as well. In other words, it doesn't matter what you use to top it off, it's the prep work that makes a car look great.

Since you've already clayed the car, no need to clay for another 6months.

I've used Zaino for years and swore by it. Then, I had my detailed by another pro with a PC and wax. Never touched the Zaino after that. It's a good product, but there's always something better. Can't beat the durability of Zaino though. The closest would be Collinite 845 Insulator Wax.

So, at this point, if you don't want to invest in the machine, why not find a reputable pro detailer and have him use some machines and see what kind of job can be done to get your car looking better. Of course, it'll cost some money, but if you don't think its any better than what you've already done, no need to buy a PC.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Interesting, thanks for the insight there.

This is the way I think though. I've called around before about some detail jobs. A good detail will run 200-250$ here. I would much rather invest $250 into a PC kit (currently cheaper than that on autogeek.com). I would never send this car off to another detailer, because I feel I can do an adequate job, and in time with experience and when I finally do get a PC (when the cash flow comes around for it in priority).. I think I will do the job of a pro. Might sound cocky, but I think I can get fairly close in time. It won't be the job of the BEST pro with a rotary and 25yrs of experience, but it will be very good.

So in the back of my mind I am eventually going to get a PC, probably sooner than later.. however there are more immediate places for my money that are mechanical and 'tangible' in nature than the Rotary. In a few months perhaps.

Interesting comment on the Zaino though. I will probably go at least one Zaino product eventually. Though I won't do the entire line of it.. I'll take what I like of all the brands and combine them for what *I* prefer.

With the color my Lexus is, the swirl marks are really not nearly as evident as other colors. Which plays in my favor of course.

I would also like the machine to take some of the effort out of removal.

Application seems like a machine would make it more difficult. I only say this because I constantly am adding Wax to my applicator pad when doing it by hand. (Admittidly I put it on too thick), but still, nonetheless to maintain a constant thickness wouldn't it be time consuming to constantly add polish or wax to the PC? If it is a paste then would you have to put the head into the paste itself? Liquid I can see putting a few drops on the area and then just using the PC head as is, and it being easy. Paste I'm not sure.. (again comes from never using one)

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way insinuating that I am a Pro detailer -- Not by a long shot.

tod071

Well, at least we're making progress. I just said that because I thought you were undecided about getting a PC or not. Since you're eventually going to get one, go for it. Now, you might want to consider a Flex 3401 machine. Its similar to the PC, but can do alot more correction. Being that DeWalt has bought Porter Cable, the 7424/7336 models have been discontinued and is becoming more scarce. Flex is the new "in-thing" that we all have.

When applying waxes, you want the thinnest coat possible. The reason people use a PC to apply is to get that very thin, even coat. Simply spread it on your pad like you would butter a slice of bread. It actually saves time using a pc because you get a thin, even coat, which makes removal much easier.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Good tip on the Flex -- Certainly don't want something that will be harder to get 'parts' for in the coming years. Unless the discontinuation will make parts cheaper. (Though I would think it would be the other way around).

As for proper application I will look at some video's .. that should be the best 'tutorial' .

After spreading paste onto the applicator (I guess you almost need the wax heated a touch so it will spread? -- IE: If its in the garage at 45 degree's it is sort of hard as a rock ) -- How much of the car can you cover before having to recoat the applicator?

Quarter? Half? Whole thing? hehe..

Oh and is the Flex of similar price?